Jamie Jack Trained with Cam McEvoy, Tim Lane in Lead-up to 21.4 50 Free in Irvine

Welcome to the Swim Swam Podcast. I'm today's host Coleman Hodges joining us today. He ripped a 21.43 in the 53 at the U.S. Summer Championships in Irvine in a time trial, making him the fourth fastest Australian swimmer in history and tying him for number four in the world this season. He also clocked a matching 21.6 threes in the 53 prelims and finals of those same U.S. Summer Championships in Irvine, where he won the individual 50 free today. We are getting to sit down with this sprint sensation, Jamie Jack, Jamie. Thanks so much for joining us. How's it going? Thanks for having me. I'm really excited. This episode of the Swim Swam Podcast is sponsored by Commit Swimming, Swim Swam's exclusive team management software partner. Since 2015, Commit has been providing coaches with swimming's leading workout management software. And now Commit has team management software too. Commit wants to help you make the switch from Team Unify to a simpler, more powerful solution. Their onboarding and customer service team will walk you through every step of the Check them out at CommitSwimming.com to book your demo today. That's C-O-M-M-I-T-Swimming.com. Absolutely. I mean, you, you, you popped off in a big way in Irvine. Um, it was really exciting to see the times you were able to put up there, but I'm really excited to just dive into really your entire season, um, of, of swimming and, and kind of how this progression all came about. Uh, but we can start with Irvine. Just, we had just talked about it off camera. You've been to this meet before, uh, you've been to this pool before. What, what were you expecting heading into this competition? Um, and, and how was it racing in Irvine for you? Um, I was honestly really nervous only because I had no idea what sort of results to expect. I wasn't super set on going to going on the Oz 18. Um, obviously I was quite disappointed after my trials. But I kind of went back to Dean. We sort of debriefed and I decided to try and make a new plan, um, that where we could try and really hone in on the 50 freestyle and with a slightly less stressful training routine, I could really motivate myself to have fun and, um, go for more so experience rather than anything and see whatever results showed up, then I can be happy with it. Yeah. Um, so were you happy with those end results and just kind of, can you kind of take me through the meat and, and your plan for how you wanted to swim and how you were able to execute it? Yep. Yeah. I mean, obviously I already had known that the 50 freestyle was going to be on day one and then the a hundred freestyle was on day three, although I hadn't re I didn't have much intention of racing the a hundred freestyle as a hundred. Um, I purely wanted as many opportunities at the 50 as possible. Um, and then I was also made aware of the whole time trial option where it could be an official time trial after the heat session, possibly I don't know about the finals. Um, so after day one, I was feeling really good. They had a bit of a strange start in our final, which I think mentally messed up with a few of us. I think we all spoke about it after the final. And I really just went back to our head coach and was like, I really want to do a time trial. Let's give me a day rest. Let's do it. I have heats finals, and then I wanted the day rest and then to race again, just cause I thought if I could put a race perfectly together, I wanted to just beat my time. Yeah. Uh, and did you have any goals, you know, time wise time or other heading into this meet? Yeah. I mean, the swimming Australia categorization is most likely the biggest factor for me. I really, cause after going 21 6, 6 in December, um, that wasn't going to be counted for my categorization. And it also wasn't the time because it was only top eight that made it into the final of the Olympics, which was a 21 6, 4, which obviously that would make you, I think fifth fastest Australian ever just to get to category three, which sounds interesting, but, um, Hey, that's how it goes sadly. So that was my biggest factor that I wanted. I was going for experience, but to have some sort of success from it, I really just wanted to hit that. Yeah. Um, categorization, when you say that, does that affect, does that impact like how, how much money you make, um, or the, where you're allowed to compete? Can you explain that a little more? Um, it's sort of like a support system where like maybe with St. Peter's, obviously we go on a multiple. Um, training camps together and they are quite, they can be costly. So yeah, it does it. Your categorization can help you with the, making those funds a little bit easier. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. And so you want to, you want to get as much funding as you can, obviously. Yeah, it was, it was a stressful is kind of a stressful thing. And to be able to get that kind of just gets pressure off of you for the next year, really. So I can train that focus on training more and not be so worried about financially. Yeah. Uh, so the, the 2163, both in the, in the prelim and the final on day one. Um, what do you feel like went well in those races for you? And, and what were you also looking to, you know, maybe critique a little bit? Um, I had been training with Kim McAvoy a little bit before, um, for the whole preparation since trials into California. And I learned some amazing things from him and Tim, um, awesome people. And I kind of, I wasn't so sure if I wanted to max the heat or not or max or put, try and go for a best swim then or save up the final. Obviously it's just a 50, but. Um, I really, I was feeling really good the day before I warmed up. Awesome. And I thought I really do. I may as well give myself the opportunity to go for it here in the heats and then learn from that for the finals and the heats went really well. Obviously 2163, um, and my rates were lower than ever two strokes, lower than ever, um, I, my notes that I had kind of received from that were, I wasn't too aggressive. Um, and that was one thing where I thought I could probably improve in the final where I tried to simply flow in the heat and just whatever happened, whatever time came up, came up. Yeah. Uh, so we can McAvoy actually reached out to me and was like, you should talk to Jamie Jack, uh, because, because obviously you trained with him for a little bit. And so I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm definitely curious about that arc and I'm going to get there in a minute, but, uh, just sticking with Irvine. Um, so after your final swim, did you feel like you were able to execute that flow, uh, in the final swim? My biggest note from the final was really, I wasn't so aggressive off the start and I really did feel myself tightening up towards the end of the 50. So I thought I had a better aggression in the swim period. Um, it's just, I really did miss the start and I think that's very evident. Um, being next to Caleb Dressel, obviously he's an incredible starter. So watching, obviously I definitely wasn't leading at the 15 or even the 25 meter. Um, so I really did need to kind of swim through the crowd. Um, so I think it was, they had a bit of a strange start in the final, um, where they had to like call us up extra because someone had been set on the blocks. I think half of us were already set on the blocks waiting for them to call and it was a little bit of a confusing factor. Um, but yeah, for the final I improved on my swim speed, but I ended up missing the start and turns out that evened out to the exact same time. What, what was, what was racing Caleb like? And I mean, not, not just Caleb, right? There was, uh, quite a few pretty, you know, heavy hitters in that 53 final. Uh, I mean, like it's a bit of a pinch me moment, right? Obviously racing Caleb, he's such a role model and I look up to him greatly. Um, obviously I'm 22. I'm decently younger. I had finished, I'd spoken to him before the heats, lovely guy. He was super happy and cheery. I'm like surprised by how many Australians were there at the competition. And then even after the finals, I was just talking to him in the pool and like, it was so surprised. Um, he just, it was, he was so happy to be there. Um, and he was clearly loving it and obviously I was really happy to be next to him. So yeah. Yeah. He's a, he's a great guy. Um, can't, can't yeah. A lot of good things to say about Caleb and very excited to see him in good spirits in Irvine, uh, getting some race reps in as well, but, uh, so after the final swim, you're like, okay, I'm going to do this time trial. Do you feel like in that time trial, you know, kind of what you said about the prelim swim in the final swim that everything just kind of clicked and came together? Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, I was speaking to my, the head coach, the, on the second day, um, talking about the whole idea of the time trial. And, um, we weren't so sure about it, but it was because he said, because you've proven yourself and you've already obviously gone, um, improved on my time. He thought it would be worth it. So I had to quickly, I said, let's scrap that. Let's scratch the a hundred and ends me in the time trial, whether it's by myself or I even had messaged Hunter Armstrong if he wants to join me. Um, and he said he would, he would have joined me if I wanted him to, if I wanted some competition and like someone to egg me on, um, which I, I was totally fine, um, without, but it was to coming together for the 50 on the third day was a really good opportunity. So it's simply, I knew my notes from the final and I kind of just wanted to nail it and, you know, really try and get excited in this, especially in the sun, it was awesome, great weather, um, great energy and yeah, it did come together really well and I, the time showed that thankfully. Have you, do you feel like you've processed that time? I mean, is that, did you have that number in your brain? Was that a possibility for you? And what do you think of it now? Um, I mean, me and my roommate were joking about some ridiculously fast times during the week and like, you know, even after the fifth free day, like I was happy enough already. Um, but the idea to think that I was telling myself, Oh, Hey, I can actually improve on this and who knows how much faster that could actually show. Um, obviously a grain of salt, a lot of people will say like, I could, like, if I did the time at the world championships or here or there, it all means different. Um, it wasn't a time trial, so, but I'm still very much proud of, very proud of that and happy that I ended up dropping a 0.2 from the 33 and you've dropped. 0.4 this season. Is that right? Like you came into the year with a 21, eight. Um, well from Olympic trials, I was 20 through zero actually. And then that December I was 21, six. Okay. Um, at trial at trials recently. Yes, I was 21, eight. Um, and it just shows to how much can change in the 50 if the slightest thing is off and it's very risky. Yeah. So, so yeah, let's say in 13 or so months, you've gone from 20 to 0 to 21, four. That's pretty, that's pretty significant. Um, so now, yeah, let's, let's talk about your Australian trials this year. Um, can you just tell me a little bit about how that meet went for you and how, how you ended up moving forward, uh, with both Dean and cam and temp. Yep. Um, yeah, I mean, like, obviously after the trials I was highly disappointed. Um, but the thing is I was going into it happy enough with both my 50 and the a hundred, obviously I had a good a hundred, good a hundred at the national nationals, just two months prior. Um, and then me and Dean always have really tried to, I do want to keep on swimming a hundred freestyle. So no matter what, I do think I probably chased it too much, chased both events too much. Um, and what do you mean by that? I cause after, after going one six and 48 two at December, um, obviously I was really happy with the way the method that I was training and me and Dean had spoken about that and we had worked out a new plan for the whole season and we tried to stick to that and really try and improve piece by piece to put my whole race together. Um, and the 53 was more of a show that I have speed rather than make the team for the 50. So I didn't have too much expectation on the 50 freestyle going 21, eight. I was, I was happy enough. I was telling myself that I do, I do have top end speed. I do have sprint. Um, obviously 21, eight would have made the Olympic team last year and this year came fifth and I just tried to be happy with myself. Yeah. Um, and then the hundred freestyle, everyone was, it was incredibly fast and Australia did amazing. Um, sadly I kind of, I did psych myself out almost in the heats and Dean tries to get my head back in the game and I just didn't want to give up. And I really went for it in the final just to prove myself. And no matter what happens, I just wanted to accept what I had done. Can, um, can you, what place and what time did you end up going in that a hundred free final? Um, I was a 48 seven in the a hundred free final. I had gone out faster than ever in a 22, 22 seven. Um, which was, we really wanted that. That was everything I had wanted all year just to really have that confidence on the way out and to back myself on the way home. Um, so 40 S seven was similar to my Olympic trials last year. Um, and obviously after that sort of disappointment, we, we did have notes to think about my fitness and sort of how my energy systems really and the way I've been training. So after trials, you, you thought it was a physical thing. Like you're like, okay, this is how we've been training. This is how I want to train moving forward. Yeah, for sure. Um, I mean, I rant on about my weight quite often and I had even gotten emotional with Dean about that because obviously we, I keep on chasing all these different numbers and wanting to train this consistent, all these consistencies. Um, and because we had such, we had such an, a large Olympic rep, I then, we can, I then sorted out a plan for the rest of the year, just to have a bit of fun. I did World Cups. I fully prepared myself for a state championships in December. So that was very limited kilometers. So almost I, I had to back up into another new performance season without doing a heavy block and all these kilometers where, which we're used to, uh, at St. Peter's. And we do these really fun and like large blocks where we go and go and train somewhere else, or we can just have fun getting fit and that kind of like for the rest of the year, I unfortunately didn't really get to do that. But, and that's a big consequence and I, I had to accept that. And I, and I go with that. Yeah. And it makes sense, right? I mean, it's, it's post Olympic year, right? It's like, like you said, you put, you put all these eggs in that Olympic basket and, and afterwards I think it's, it's important to take a break, right? Mentally, if nothing else and go race, go have fun and, uh, you know, go swim in a state championship and, uh, yeah. Okay. So, um, yeah. So tell me about just the moving forward, what you and Dean spoke about and then how you ended up training with Cam and Tim in the lead up to Irvine. Um, I'll start with Cam. Um, initially after, after I came back to training after trials, me and Dean were talking about sort of a plan and like how, if I was willing to go to California, I did purely want to do fifties and work on my biggest weaknesses and my starts and different opportunities to work on my top end speed, and it was a technical basis as well as strength and I had mess reached out to Cam and Tim, and I was also asking Dean for his permission, obviously. And Cam was keen and Tim was also very accepting of me and they were letting me train with them on a Monday and Thursday. Um, and I purely use these sessions and St. Peter's was training at the same pool. Um, on some days. Yeah, this was that, um, champ. And so Dean was, how far is that from St. Peter's? Um, about half an hour. Oh, okay. So yeah, very close. So St. Peter's was using the pool, um, or for some of these sessions. And obviously I was in the lanes next to them, just working with Cam and I use these opportunities to kind of learn as much as I could, and I really, really liked asking them questions on, I knew what my weaknesses were and I knew what I wanted to improve, but the method of actually making changes, I was really unsure about because there's so much repetition in swimming. I kind of get frustrated with the idea of repeating the same thing and expecting it to change. Um, and I just kind of needed a new approach and a new approach on how to get these weaknesses and turn them into strengths. So I trained with him twice a week for the whole six weeks prior to leaving. Um, and I also still, I still worked, trained at St. Peter's and worked with Dean and stayed in contact. And he obviously, he loves working and he loves making sure that he's still there for me and working with me. Um, so during these, we've kind of had a plan and I wanted more muscle endurance and I was in the gym four times a week. And although I was only swimming once a day and some sessions were a kilometer or less, the next day I'd go do two kilometers aerobic and try and keep my recovery up. And it was kind of a scary thing of, I have no idea how to actually rest myself into this competition because I had never done this sort of work before. And talking to like, talking to my gym coach, we realized the biggest factor is going to be my gym. Because I was going from such a high, heavy load, four sessions a week, um, in there for an hour, hour and a half. We really wanted to taper that off just so then my sprint could come up and luckily it did work. Yeah. That's so it sounds like you put a lot of thought into this. Uh, and I mean, you, you go hang out with cam and Tim, you've had, you have to, right, because they are, they are cerebral beings. Yeah. Um, but it's, that's made me hear about it. So cool just to see what they've done. And I think one of the reasons, you know, again, cam reached out to me and said, I think you should talk to Jamie. I'm so honored that the work I'm doing as cam McAvoy is like people now other people are getting to use and getting to reap the benefits of, um, and he was. Yeah. Just very excited that, that this, that his method was catching on and that people were finding it useful. Yeah. Do you, do you feel like you had takeaways or specific things that you really saw improve in those, in that six ish week period? Yes, definitely. I mean, I think I spent my entire flight kind of journaling my thoughts and what I kind of learned from those eight weeks just so I could actually get it down on paper, um, and try and learn not what rather than being confused about why I did well, I wanted to understand why I did go quite fast. Um, obviously I, my start time went from a five, four at trials and I think it was possibly a five, two, five, two low, um, at Irvine and that is quite a, I would say quite a hard thing to change, change within six weeks. Um, the biggest thing and I do tell Dean was a sort of a mental game, um, that I really respect cam for was because all this sprinting, like doing a 50, you can't just expect to go max every single swim, every single effort and to think that that's going to improve. And I think that's probably one of the drawbacks I had this year while in this period, I kind of learned to take a step back with my rights, with my effort and then train at this level and then be able to put a suit on really fire up for one single effort and try and learn where I nailed things, where I nailed it in my start in the water, the timing of the breakouts, if you put it back to 90% and then brought it back up, it, um, it did show really good results. And some days I would be stuck at a time and it was a thing of, I might not be learning much from today's session, but I've still done it. I've still done some good sprints and we're looking more at the biomechanics of it and the movements rather than the time. This is, this is all fascinating to me. Uh, but yeah, so it's like you got so much information. Um, and again, in a very, in a very short time period, um, and we're able seemingly to apply that in a very real way. Um, so I guess now, how does that look moving forward for you? Have you, have you thought about, you know, if, or how you will apply this? Um, you know, going back, I assume you will go back and train with Dean. Yeah. I mean, like I'll, I haven't spoken too much to Dean. Um, and the fact is I've kind of wanted to get all my ideas and my notes down so then I can reflect and go through that with Dean in the new season and we can work together on something. Um, because I know like he always wants to be involved and like he really does care. I know he cares about me. Um, it has been a going faster than I expected did confuse me because it did, it almost made it worth it to prioritize the 50. And I wasn't expecting that because, um, something that even Tim told me was to be able to, you didn't want to chase too many chickens and the catch them up. And that's kind of, obviously that's, that's happened to me this year. I chased both events and I ended up making that none of them. Um, while who knows if I did prioritize the 50, could I continue to reciprocate this and continue this if I go faster? Who knows? And like that could consistently make the team and consistently metal possibly. Um, but we know that I've always wanted, I have wanted to still race the a hundred and I do have an idea for the new season, um, that me and Dean had kind of already spoken about and theorized when it came to that sort of base level fitness and keeping my body moving, um, and then allowing my speed to come out later in the season. Yeah. Which I feel like is a progression we see often with athletes, right? You kind of, yeah. You start aerobically, you kind of sharpen as, as the season goes and certainly towards the end of the season. Um, so I I'm just curious, how long have you been training with Dean boxhole at St. Peter's at this, at this point? Um, it's been three years now. Okay. I mean, 2022, I moved over towards the end of the year, made some really big, big shifts and changes to myself and, um, obviously the training routine and the level of training, like was a massive step and I was up for it and I think Dean respected that, but I've loved, I've loved it ever since I'm upset. What, what was a big change for you or shift for you during that period of, of just training with that St. Peter's group? Um, I'd say the biggest thing was the, the energy really from the squad and like we, we all really support each other and we have our backs and it is a group who wants to work hard, I mean, you weren't there to be lazy, you weren't there to not give it your best. And I think Dean's expectation of that really you respect and you're after his respect as well. So you'd never want to let them down. If you're missing times, you, you start to feel bad or, you know, we all have bad days, but if you can't give him a hundred percent of your 90%, um, then you need to step up. So I'm, I'm curious because, uh, just talking to you, it sounds like you are quite invested in, in, in, in your swimming, but also, you know, you're, you're journaling, you're taking notes. I mean, you're approaching it very methodically. Yeah. Have you always been, have you always approached swimming this way or is this more of a, an impact of being in this group for the last few years? Um, I'm a very, I'm a very big numbers, numbers guy. I love being over at the QAS where we're looking at our dives and our, our force curves and our velocities up the blocks and the biomechanics of it. I absolutely love it. I studied mathematics and chemical engineering, so I do enjoy looking at understanding the numbers and trying to figure out how to improve them. Um, so I am quite specific in that factor and obviously to improve the numbers means you're swimming faster. So, yeah, fair enough. And I'm, I'm just curious how, how long have you been journaling or, or, or taking these notes and, and, uh, I guess documenting your swimming in that way. Honestly, probably only a year. It was after, after the Olympic trials where I, I didn't have an expectation to make the team, but obviously it was a dream. And I had this hope that like, maybe, maybe I could make it. And obviously there was a very hard, um, hard thing not to make. And I, I did feel, um, like a failure, but I also, I was quite young, so I didn't need to make it. So I probably put too much expectation on myself. And after that, I kind of began to look at my own training a little bit more specifically. I was making my own preparation for world cups and a short course season, um, which I, I kind of just wanted to find something to motivate myself and that was kind of motivating factor for me. And after that, I simply wanted to get my ideas down and Dean wanted me to kind of get everything on paper. I'd write, I'd write down every set. All the times I'd take a photo of and he'd be saying it and we went through it all together at the end of the year. Um, and I kind of started reflecting on things that went well and what didn't and what I kind of wanted to learn from it. Um, and then just ideas for the new season, really. Yeah. Okay. I'm starting to, you're painting a picture here for me. I'm starting to understand a little bit more, uh, the Jamie Jack mentality. I get it. Um, I mean, I, I also have to wonder how much of wanting to become an Olympian was to, to match your sister. Yeah. I mean, you're completely correct. It was, it was, uh, the fact that it was such a good year or of training for me is probably what put the idea in my head so much and I'd sit down with Dean and he was like, look, if you don't make it, it's not the end of the world. But the fact is I could be an underdog here. And if I made it suddenly out of the blue, this would be incredible. And what a lifetime experience it would be. And obviously, yes, Shane is very experienced and there was high hopes for her to make the Olympic team and she obviously, it did end up making it. And there was always this idea in my head where, where obviously siblings and to be on, be on just an Australian team, but let alone an Olympic team would be, um, very special, very special. Yeah. What, what has it been like just to have that sibling in something that you dedicate so much time to, um, so much thought, emotion, effort, um, you know, you put a lot into your sport and, uh, and obviously, uh, dude, I've talked to her, she puts a lot into this sport as well. Um, and, and I'm sure you know that more than most. Yeah. Um, but, uh, you know, to, to also, to, for, to have her while you're going through this swim journey, but then to also have been there, uh, for her highs and lows that she's been through. Yeah, for sure. I mean, the fact is that because we're around our squad so often you become like we're a family, um, you know, Dean's like a father figure to us. He's, he treats us so well. And then having Shana at the pool, obviously I see her more than anyone. Um, but also probably the best factor is whenever we were struggling. Um, she is someone that I could open up to really easily. And at the end of the day, she is my older sister. Um, and having that as a, as a support frame almost for each other, um, really makes the stress and the hardships less hard. Is, is she someone, uh, you train with regularly? Yeah. I mean, we were doing every single session together for the last, for the last year. Um, we were always side by side. We wouldn't always go in the same lane. Um, we, everyone, we, you know, we have our different people that we always swim with in a lane together. Um, but yeah, I mean, we did every session together. Um, she'd always make sure I'm okay. And if we were ever struggling, we'd be there for each other. That's really cool to hear. I, I mean, I think we've, we see lots of swim siblings, but I feel like that bond is so unique. Uh, and I mean, I grew up swimming with my brother and yeah, to put so much time into something and have someone else who not only knows your life inside the pool, but outside of it as well is, is pretty unique. Agreed. Yes, definitely. Yeah. Um, what, who else is, who else is in your training group? Um, in Dean's squad, who do you, who do you line up with on a daily basis? Line up with or train with? Either or. Um, I mean, like I'm very, me and Elijah, Elijah Winnington, we're very close and he is someone that I also look up to very well because although he may not be that much older than me, he is someone who has a lot more experience than me and he's told me many stories and these sort of factors where I have learnt, um, and although he's a, you know, 200, 400, 800 swimmer, um, I don't always relate to him in the pool, in the training pool, um, but having him as someone, as a really good friend in the squad, um, it means a lot. I mean, to have a friend, if you're ever struggling, you know, it's someone to push you harder and yeah, in the gym we're all, we're all working together. Um, so that's another factor. It's just, it makes training more fun. Yeah. I, there's so much talent in this group. I forget. I forget who everyone that's in it forgot about Elijah Winnington, but, uh, he's, yeah, again, another very accomplished swimmer who, who, who trains with you guys. That's awesome. Yeah. Um, so again, just to wrap up, uh, moving forward, what are you looking forward to just in the next couple of weeks? Um, you mentioned you're not going to take much time off and, and you're going to, you know, try to get back into it. Um, mentally I am actually a bit fatigued, so I am going to Europe in a few weeks. Um, only because I really like, once again, I did speak to Dean and I, I do really need a kind of a mental break from all this because it has been quite stressful and I've wanted all these results. And sometimes if it didn't happen, you know, it's not the end of the world, but it feels like such a major change where, you know, suddenly I don't get to go to Singapore or I may not go to World Cups or like these plans that I maybe had in my head, they, they're simply they're canceled and I sometimes don't even know what to do with myself because I get lost in this gray space and you know, it's, it's hard, but I kind of just after Irvine, I kind of want to come back and settle in at least back into swimming and into gym so I could go away and completely not have to think about swimming. Um, so I'll be able to come home. The whole squad will be home and I'll be able to talk to Dean and I think I'll have a really fit end of the year program. I think, uh, who knows what I'll be racing at the end of the year. Nice. Uh, are you, are you going to do World Cups this year in the U S? Uh, currently not, unfortunately. Um, yeah, currently not. Yeah. Understandable. Hard to find myself sadly. Well, that's, yeah, no, we, we know that in, uh, in swimming, there's not the most money and honestly getting to Chicago and Indianapolis is not the easiest thing in the world last year, so I was hoping to be doing World Cups this year, but sadly once the, the selection for that is. I'm a little bit misconstrued. So, um, I would have to sell fund, which I didn't want to do. Hey, fair enough. Also weren't broke was the last year, the one where they were in Asia. Yeah. So they were way closer to you. Uh, yeah, I, the first World Cups I had done, it was an absolutely awesome experience. And also being short course, the mental load was way less and you met some wonderful people. Do you, do you train short course and long course regularly? No, no, really not, not at all. No, you don't train short course. Um, unless we were doing a show, unless I decided I wanted to do the short course season, uh, we really trained short course much throughout the year. Unless it was around January, uh, so, uh, December, January area. Yeah. I wouldn't say we train it specifically. No. I'm learning this more and more. I had no idea that many, many people just don't train short course. Yeah. I mean, like this is the time that a lot of us are having breaks as well. So yeah, with, um, more comps there, unless I want to go on break. So I chose that. I decided I wanted to really focus on short course last season and try and have some fun and see what I could do. And that, and that was an awesome experience. That did go quite well. Um, but this year I decided I, I didn't really feel the need to do short course. Hey, fair enough. I can't, yeah, it makes sense. I'm just, I thought, I thought people trained short course more, I guess. Yeah. Um, okay. Final question. Um, what, you know, what chicken are you going to chase now? Uh, in to, to, to pull a metaphor from before, you know, you spoke about, uh, the 50 free, the a hundred free. Do you, do you know what your focus will be moving forward? I, I think I'm going to really prioritize my speed in the 50. Um, but I need to allow myself to still have a good hundred in me, but I think that's going to only happen with the prior work earlier in the season. So it may not be a thing of focusing the a hundred within racing, but I'm going to have to still be able to do it, execute a hundred because of my 50. You've been listening to the swim, swim podcast, stay tuned for new episodes every week. You can take some swim podcasts on the go by subscribing on your favorite podcast platform. Look for links in the description below and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel for more videos as well.