How to find your dream job in America

Hello to all of you who are watching the Webinar Series 2019 of the Vietnamese Professionals Network in the US, also known as VNPN. This is a non-profit program built with the goal of connecting successful Vietnamese in the US and creating a network of support for Vietnamese students studying and working in the United States. The Webinar Series 2019 is an online talk show with a lot of interaction between the audience and the audience. And through this program, we hope to bring you practical values, lessons, and useful experiences for your dreams. And we also hope to receive feedback from you so that we can build a more complete program, bring back more valuable lessons for your future jobs in the US. And this program is sponsored by the Vietnamese Students Union in the US and the VietChallenge competition. And for today's program, we have two very special guests, Mr. Nguyễn Sông Hà and Nguyễn Minh Phương. Mr. Nguyễn Sông Hà is a software engineer working at Code.org. And Mr. Hà, right from when you were a junior high school student, you already had a passion for programming and you created a simple piano app. And Mr. Hà believes that computer science is the shortest way to turn ideas into reality and to nurture the infinite creativity in each person. And before you joined Code.org, you had 5 years of experience working at Microsoft. And you joined Code.org to continue to bring educational programs about computer science to global children. The second guest is Mr. Nguyễn Minh Phương. Mr. Nguyễn Minh Phương is a senior at Computer Information Systems, specializing in data analysis. When you first started university, you studied marketing. But after you studied for a while and did an internship, you felt that this field was not really suitable for you. And you transferred to another major. And you have experience working as a Product Management Intern and Data Engineer Intern at FinTech. And you are also a Data Science student at Microsoft Research. This May, you will graduate and work for ADP at Global Tech. In today's show, Mr. Hà and Ms. Phương will share with our audience their experiences in finding a job in the U.S. For Mr. Hà, it is the journey from Microsoft to Code.org. And for Ms. Phương, it is the experience of finding a job at job interviews before you graduate. And the first question for Ms. Phương is As we all know, it is not easy to find a job in the U.S. Especially for students who just came from Vietnam to the U.S., there will be many difficulties. Can you share with us some of your experiences to find the job you are looking for today? The experiences when you were still in school, the experiences when you went to job interviews, the experiences when you joined events, the experiences when you joined job interviews, and the experiences when you joined job interviews. What did you prepare to have the best job opportunities? Thank you, Tien. There are two parts. The first part is how to find what I like. The second part is how to apply and get that job, right? Finding what I like as a student is actually very difficult because going to school and going to work are different. For example, when I was in marketing, I felt that there were many different job titles in marketing. And I didn't know how different they were. It was the same as in tech. For example, when I first went to tech, the first thing I did was... At first, I tried to study very well. I think Vietnamese students are very good at that. Because I felt that in the field of technology, knowledge is very important. So I spent the first semester just to learn that knowledge. After that, I applied everywhere to find internships. One thing I want to notice for those who are students and want to find a job, for example, is first, don't complain about being unpaid. Going for an unpaid internship is completely normal. When you don't have anything in your hands, you should try. Second, when you apply for a job and you don't know what job title suits you, you should ask the people who went before you. Here, the people in the VNPA network are the ones I asked the most. After that, I can ask the teachers and everyone around me. Next, I recommend that you look for internships while you're studying. Because there are two reasons. First, it's easier to apply. Because in the summer, everyone is off from school and everyone applies for internships. I feel that the competition is extremely intense. So when I applied during the year, I felt that I also had an interview. I failed a few, but I also got a few. And because during the year, everyone completely understood that I was a student and I was still going to school. So my co-workers completely gave me time to go to school. I was part-time. And I felt that I could apply a lot of knowledge in the classroom to my internship. As for applying for an internship, I think that for me, because it's a path that I'm trying to learn well, to get a ticket for an internship, it's very expensive. It's like $500, not to mention the additional fees. I think I can't pay more than $1,000 for that. So first, I asked the school to sponsor me. Because I studied quite well, so the teachers completely wanted to sponsor me. But I couldn't do that, so the teachers wrote me a letter. Then I asked Microsoft to sponsor me. So I think that all the things that I, or other students, have achieved, are just a small step. You build it up, build it up, build it up. That's how it is. As for my experience, I have written a very long article and posted it on the VNPN blog. Maybe VNPN will share it with you later. You can read it more carefully. Thank you very much, Phuong. Our next question is for Mr. Ha. Mr. Ha, as I have just introduced to you, you have 5 years of experience working at Microsoft, and now at Code.org. The direct interview process with big names in the technology industry is quite a challenge. Can you share with us the general process of interviewing with these companies? Sure. Hello, everyone. I'm Song Ha. In addition to the two companies above, from when I was a student until now, I have had interviews with about 20 companies. Some were successful, some were not. I think I got about 50% of them. As for the general process of interviewing for software engineers, I think there are 4 main steps. The first is resume screening. This is the phase when your documents are screened by HR. They will screen very quickly to see if they want to move forward with you. The second phase is phone screening. The purpose of this phase is to have a conversation with the person you want to interview to see if there is an instant red flag. In this phase, most of the time, the HR interview and the story are very simple. They can ask you, tell me about yourself, or ask about the project you are working on, or ask why you want to choose this company. These are very simple questions to have a conversation with each other. But sometimes, the people who do the first phone screening are often very high-ranking people. They can be the team's direct manager, or even in the case of Code.org, the CTO will call me. Why are these phone screenings for such high-ranking people? They want to quickly screen to see if this person is a good fit for their team, and they don't want to waste the team's time. So sometimes the manager will join right away. After that phase, there will be text screening. This is the phase that checks your coding ability, programming, or anything related to text. It can be online, such as Amazon or Two Sigma, a hedge fund. They do it online. It can also be a phone interview. Most companies do a phone interview. You will be provided with an online link for you to code directly, and the other person will see what you are coding. Most companies do it this way. There can be one or two rounds. After you have passed the phone screening and the text screening, you will be taken to the on-site. It usually takes a day, and there will be 4 to 6 interviews. Companies organize it differently. For example, Lyft has 4, Oracle and Amazon have 5, and Two Sigma has 6. Sometimes it is split into 2 days. For example, in the case of Code.org, there are 3 text interviews in the same day. After you have passed, you will be taken to the second day for an interview with the leadership team. Or in the case of Two Sigma, they split it into 2 sessions, morning and afternoon. In the morning, it is also a text interview. After you have passed that, in the afternoon, you will have 3 more interviews with the managers. Companies organize it differently. Usually, if you have a good interview, the result will be within 1 to 2 weeks. Thank you. Let's get back to Phuong. You work in an environment that is quite technical, and I know that there are usually more male employees. As a female, do you have any difficulties for Phuong? Can you share some experiences for those who are watching the show? That's a good question. At first, when I thought about this question, I thought that people often say that there are difficulties, but I want to say that it is not difficult to get into this field. Because I see that this field of coding is initially for women. Then over time, it became a field for men. Secondly, there are a lot of women who are gradually moving into this field because the women in tech trend is very strong now. All companies have a diversity program. There are also a lot of diversity pipelines for women to apply. But I think the most difficult thing is the imposter syndrome of women. For example, when I first started, I also experienced a lot. Because when I was in a team of 100% men, I felt like I was a representative of the world. If I didn't do well, all the other women didn't do well. That was my thought. When I joined Microsoft, this program was for 8 people, there were 4 women. All 4 of them told me that they had the same feeling. When they were accepted into the program, they couldn't believe it. They thought that it was because Microsoft wanted to expand the diversity program, so they chose me. But it wasn't like that. In fact, the women in my program were about 50% faster than the men. This is a statistic from my teacher. After that, I realized that the biggest obstacle for women in this field is their mentality. They think that they're not good at math, they're not good at this and that. Usually, women think like that. Secondly, when they apply, sometimes I see a job and I think that I'm not qualified, so I don't apply. But for men, they have a different mindset. They just say, whatever, and they apply. Because I applied a lot, I got a lot of interviews. And because I didn't apply a lot, I didn't get a lot of interviews, so I didn't apply a lot. So I think the biggest obstacle is to overcome your mental pressure. After that, let's say you have a job, and you're in the Women in Tech pipeline, you can't think that because you're not good enough, you have to apply for this. I think, based on my mindset, I think that I got in, and what's next? What do I have to do to improve myself? I think that's the right mindset. Thank you. I have a few things I want to add to Phuong's answer. In my company, 50% of the engineers are women. And that's the first thing. The other part, there are a lot of women because they work in education. That's the first time I work in a company where I go to meetings, and the number of men is the minimum The number of women who work in Women in Tech is increasing. That's a fact. And for companies, I want to give you more information. Big tech companies also have an incentive to hire more women and underrepresented minorities. And I don't want to name companies, but there are some companies that directly tie that to the manager's reward. So you really have an advantage from the company, not just... So through Phuong and Hai's sharing, we can see that being a woman in an artistic environment like this is really not a disadvantage. But according to the sharing of our two guests, women have a lot of advantages when you study and work in a technical environment like this. You just have to be confident and apply and go to interviews. Don't be afraid or afraid of anything. When you go to interviews with companies like this, I can show you the difference between Microsoft and Code.org. Do you have any experiences that you want to share that you can draw from these two interviews? Sure. Between those two companies, it represents two groups. One is technical focus and the other is technical and behavioral balance. The technical focus group has Microsoft, Google, Two Sigma, and other companies. Most of the interviews are about coding, algorithm, and data structure. The second group is the group that I was surprised when I first joined but now I see more and more technical and behavioral balance. They really want to have a person in the team and fit with that team and provide value. It's not about hiring a rock star and not being able to work with anyone and not being able to communicate. In the end, it could be worse. The second group has Amazon, Oracle, and Airbnb. Code.org is also very focused on your personality. My experience is that before you interview a company, you should look at the interview type of the company. Is it technical focus or technical and behavioral balance? You can go to Glassdoor or CareerCup to see the feedback of the people who interviewed the company recently to have a sense of their process. With the technical part, how to train for that part, I follow my way. First is fundamental. I will learn algorithm course or textbook. The algorithm course on Coursera from Princeton is very good about fundamentals. After that, you can read Cracking the Coding interview. It's almost like a bible for software engineers. The structure is very good. You can read through that part. you know which part you are good at and which part you are not good at. The last part is Practice Makes Perfect. I recommend LeetCode. There are about 100-200 articles. I think you will be ready for all the technical interviews for big tech and small tech companies. As for behavioral questions, this is a formula with star model, situation, task, accident, and result. You can search to read more. When companies interview you, they will send you detailed documents because they want candidates to have the same knowledge and level playing field. You can read that. My experience in behavioral questions is that I will tell my story in a concise way with a measurable impact. I will tie my story to the core values of the company. For example, in the case of Amazon, there are 14 leadership principles. You can change your story to fit 1 or 2 or 3 principles. Oracle also has a list of core values. Most companies have it. You just need to change your story to fit it. You don't need to prepare too much. I think I will prepare 3 or 4 stories. After working in these companies, what do you think about their environment? This is a big question. I don't know how many answers I can give. I will choose 2 things. First, there is a lot of autonomy. You have the right to choose a lot. You may be surprised, but you will find it obvious. The mindset of the tenant is that they hire you to be the owner of a problem space so you can handle the problems in the problem space so the manager can delegate to you. That's why they want to hire you. That's why you have such a mindset. You need to be proactive. You see a problem, fix it, see a gap, feel it. You don't have to get instructions from others. That mindset is very rare in tech companies. Second, everything is result and impact driven. What you do will be measured somehow and contribute to something. A question I often ask when interviewing managers is the success metric of the team. When you know the success metric of the team, that is, what the team will get at the end of the year, you will make sure that everything you do, all the tasks you do, all the time and effort will contribute to the success metric. If not, even if you spend a whole week, a whole month doing it, but it contributes nothing, you will not be recognized or rewarded for the effort you put in. About the specificity between Microsoft and Code.org, Microsoft has a quote from Scott Wood III, the head of AI and Cloud, one of Microsoft's big divisions. To him, culture is what you reward. Culture is not propaganda on the company's website, but what you reward. At Microsoft, reward is based on three things. First, individual contribution, that is, what you do. Second, contribution to other people's success, that is, what you help others do. Third, leverage other people's work, that is, how you take advantage of other people's work. When they change the review process, performance review process, and they put these three pillars in, it changes the way people work with each other. That is, everyone wants to share what they do with the team to see if anyone can use it. Or when you see what others can do, you immediately think about how you can incorporate it into your work. It breaks the barriers so people don't have to stay in their own silos and reach out to others to work and collaborate with each other. At Microsoft, it's financial incentive-driven. And at Code.org, it's very different. Code.org doesn't have rewards. When you get a salary, that's the money you get in a year, so it doesn't have that financial reward anymore. And people who come here have a vision of what they want to do, and they're really passionate about it, so they just do it because they really want to do it, not because they'll get a reward at the end of the year. So the way people work is very different. It's non-aggressive. You don't see that each person has the need to express themselves and their values and is willing to help everyone. They keep their egos very low, almost ego-less. I think these two environments are different in some ways. I feel very appreciated that I have the opportunity to try both. I also advise you to try both. Thank you. Thank you for the very useful information. I think not everyone can know the information unless they work in those companies and work in those environments. If you feel that you're suitable for that kind of environment, as Mr. Ha said, to find a job like that, when you're sitting at home, you have to prepare very carefully to find an internship. Before you graduate, you have to attend networking events to find a job. As far as I know, most of the universities in the US have a career service to guide you to find a job and to guide you on how to find a job. Mr. Phuong, our host, is also one of the people who knows how to use the career service and the resources provided by the university to find an internship and a job. Can you share some tips to help our friends to use the career service better? Okay. There's one thing I have to tell everyone. My university is Brook College, in CUNY. has a large number of Vietnamese students. When I have a chance to talk to some of them, they all tell me that they've never gotten a job through our career service. The reason is that after talking to the career service advisor, they always tell me that international students are left in the bottom of the list when they apply for a job. It could be this year. It happened this year or a few years ago. The reason is that when Trump came, the HMB changed. Corporates are also afraid of international students, so they tell the university to change the algorithm when they recommend students. It directly affects the students in the school. I can only use a few services in the school. The first one is mock interview and resume review. I only use the first step. I feel that the people in the school know what a resume should be and what corporates like. But to see for example, when I work in tech, I need to know what words recruiters want to scan for a resume. I need to ask hiring managers. I need to reach out to foreign networks. For example, I reached out to VNPM. I use VNPM a lot. The second thing I want to mention that you can use or pay attention to when you're in the school is the professors. The professors actually have their own network. If I can prove that I'm a good student and I can contribute to their network, the professors are very happy to refer me. For example, my professor doesn't have any connections in the industry. But the professors do a lot of research. I ask them what's the difference between going to an academy and going to an industry school. After talking a lot with the professors during office hours, they understand me better. So when I write recommendation letters, it's much stronger. That's how I got my job. Because when I was a student, I didn't work with anyone. When I applied for a referral, I couldn't say who my previous boss was. It wasn't my parents. So I had to talk to the professors. I invested a lot in my relationship with the professors. At the same time, I want to say that it worked so well for me. I applied using quantity instead of quality. It might be different for some people. But for me, when I just transferred, I didn't have much experience. And my technical skills weren't good. At that time, I couldn't aim for a big tech company. I aimed for a small company, a startup, something like that. I applied a lot. I saw jobs related to analysts, products, and tech. I applied for all of them. After applying, I built a routine. Every morning, I opened my eyes and applied for 5 jobs. Then what did I do? Before applying, I had to edit my resume. I changed it to 3 pages. For example, for each job title, I had my own resume. I changed it to the job description. I also changed my cover letter. When I applied, I had to apply correctly. At that time, it would increase the ratio to get into the next round. For example, I had to use quality instead of quantity. At that time, I really invested all my time and effort into that interview. Thank you, Phuong. When you're looking for a job, networking and reference are very important to help you get the job you want. Next, I have a question for you and Phuong. For you and Phuong, how important is networking when you're looking for a job? How did you establish your network? For me, since I was a student until recently, the way I built my network was very organic. First, I met my friends through outdoor activities. Then, I built a friendship mainly through sports. I think this is a good advice for both men and women who don't play sports that much. But sports is a great way to meet people. When I played sports, I was really into it. Secondly, through meet-up groups. You can go to meet-ups and find groups that are related to technical or any other topics that you like. For example, I joined a Toastmasters club and it was a chance to meet not only people who work in tech, but also people outside tech. It was a great experience. Now, when I moved to Code.org, I had to proactively reach out to people. I had a goal to bring Code.org and computer science to Vietnam. So, I had to actively find people outside. From my experience, I realized that meeting people and connecting with people is not difficult. If I have a positive story that resonates with people, and I can show my enthusiasm and determination to make it happen, it's easy for people to talk to me and even ask if I know this or that person. The key point is that when you want to do something positive, you will find people who want to do it with you. I totally agree with you. I'm like you. I built my network through a very organic relationship. I didn't actively go to networking events. I felt like it wasn't sustainable. Somehow, I didn't have anything in common to talk about. I just wanted to get from people. Another thing is that I couldn't make friends through sports. So, I encouraged my friends to go to meetups for women. For example, I went to a race hopper seminar. It was a seminar for women for the biggest technology in the world. 23,000 women participated last year. When I first participated, I was really scared. Although I was pretty confident that I could make friends with many people, when I felt that there were too many people, what should I do? I realized that I should talk to them directly but only one-on-one. For example, I chose to take the bus instead of the Uber or Lyft. Because when I took the bus, I had to sit next to someone and talk to that person. When I talked to the participants, even if they weren't recruiters or employees of the company, they would be students like me. And students like me, after they joined this seminar, I think they know a lot about this field and want to stay in this field for a long time. They will become professionals in that network. I made friends with them. Maybe I will help them now. They will help me in the future. At least I have a friendship. When I was on the bus, I always prepared a story to introduce myself in a few sentences. For example, depending on the person, an adult or a young person, I will tell them that I am from Vietnam. Actually, this is my second year. I started in my second year. I joined this company and I was quite worried because I was the only person in the family to stay in the state. My whole family is Vietnamese. Everyone was surprised. Although it is a common thing for Vietnamese students, it is not so common for Americans. So they started to ask where my family is from. They started with a story about an adult and it created a bond. For younger people, I told them that I was studying and doing research in Microsoft Research. If you are interested in any topic in your field, as a student, you have a common interest. I felt that each person has their own approach. But my story should direct my audience to create a different story. Okay. The last question before we move to the Q&A is for both of you. Do you have any advice for those who are looking for a job as a student or working? When should you start looking for a job and what do you need to prepare? Okay. For me, the sooner the better. Let's start now. There are a few things I want to say about my experience. First, about the mindset. Don't be afraid to fail. If you fail, think about what you can do to do better next time and try again. If you feel after doing something or feel like you failed, it's very common. Everyone experiences it. The only difference is who will try again. After you have that mindset, the second thing is how to get into technical problems. The only way to do well in technical problems is to solve a lot of problems. That's the only way. I have an advice for you. If you are preparing to apply for Software Engineer, code a lot of code or whatever you are using and try to do it consistently. You don't have to do it 10 times a day. You can do it 1-2 times a day. Consistency every day. You should write it down in a small notebook to see how many times you do it and the gap between each day. When you look at it, you will see your consistency. The third thing is when you apply for this job, it's a stressful and draining process. But you don't have to do it alone. You can make a group in school or online based on people you know. It will become a social activity. It's like you go to the gym and you have a gym buddy. If you go alone, you don't know where he is. But because you know you have an appointment, both of you become a motivation for each other. Doing it together has a lot of benefits. You can see from the other person's point of view and you can support each other both mentally and physically. The last thing is when you prepare for an interview, the mindset is very important. Have fun. Don't be too stressed. Just relax. Take it as a chance to practice. Even if it doesn't work out as you want, you can try again. The experience this time will help you do better next time. Just relax and be yourself. I totally agree with what Hai said. Maybe I will tell you more details later. For example, when you are a student, you have to look at the timeline of the companies. For example, if you are in the 4th semester, the companies will start from September to November. Maybe in December, but usually in December it's already filled and the remaining positions are small. You have to look carefully but mostly full-time jobs will start from September to the end of November. After that, as far as I know, in December, it's a holiday. After that, people in finance start to headcount in January. In January, there are not many jobs but by the end of January, there will be more jobs. In the spring, it will start from the end of January to the end of May for internships. As for full-time jobs, I think it's open to everyone. Especially for seniors, I noticed that in May, from May to August, there are a lot of full-time jobs. A lot. Usually, when people post full-time jobs, they want me to go to work. So usually, I have to prepare my OPT and necessary documents in order to graduate with a job so I can go to work. Next is the timeline. Next is about for example, Han mentioned software engineers. For example, there are new business students who are like me. I will focus on two things. First, I will practice technical skills. Han mentioned that. Second, I will practice business. I have to prepare a case. This case is like if you want to do management consulting, you have to prepare a business case and a strategy. Actually, I'm still trying to do that. You don't necessarily have to do consulting. But when you want to apply for semi-technical or semi-business positions, you have to have those two skills. When you do case studies in an interview, you don't get caught off guard. This is also very important. Instead of looking for a gym buddy, now you have to look for an interview buddy like Han mentioned. Lastly, you have to prepare materials. For example, Han mentioned stories in behavioral interviews. There is a tip that I think is quite effective. You have to learn the story. It's like a speech. In an interview, you only need to hear the first three sentences. You don't need to think about how you are going to act so that the story is very fluent. You just have to press the words in a very natural and dramatic way. I feel like people will be attracted to your story. For example, if they like your story, they will keep asking. This will build the relationship between you and the hiring manager. In an interview, you have to prepare the story, the resume, the cover letter, the job titles that you want to do. You have to find people who have the job titles and have connections. Reach out to them and ask them questions about the job. This is a way to build a network and understand if this job is suitable for you. That's my advice. Thank you for the detailed answers from Hao and Phuong. Next, we will have a Q&A session Can I add one more thing? Yes, feel free. From my experience, before a full interview, people usually look up the person on LinkedIn. But I don't. The reason is when I look up that person, I feel pressured. Because I know my interviewee is very successful. And I don't see a lot of benefits. I can ask more personal questions, but it doesn't decide if that person wants to buy my product or not. So it's up to you. If you feel comfortable and benefit from looking up the interviewee on LinkedIn, you can do it. If you don't, you don't have to do it. It's not compulsory. Speaking of LinkedIn, we have a question from a viewer. You are advised to use LinkedIn to find work and expand your network. Do Hao and Phuong use LinkedIn a lot? How do you use this platform? Does it play a big role in finding work? What do you think, Hao? Actually, I applied to use LinkedIn. LinkedIn has a great feature that allows you to follow up when a company has an open position. That's how I found out that the company is open. What else? There's a small tip and a big tip. The small tip is that you can frequently update your LinkedIn profile. You can even change a comma or a space to update it and it will show up on other people's news feed. I don't know how effective it is, but I think it's a way to let people know more about your profile. The second tip is to use LinkedIn to write blogs. I don't do this, but I see a lot of people doing it. When you research about a problem, instead of keeping those notes on your computer, you can repackage it into a note that you can share. When you share it on LinkedIn, it's a chance for people to see that you provide value to other people. When you share it publicly, the reach is huge. A lot of people know about it. I see thousands of people liking or commenting and I'm surprised. You can try it. I haven't tried it yet, but I think it's very effective. To add to what you said, for business people, I think using LinkedIn to create a personal brand is very important. For example, besides posting on LinkedIn, I think you can reach out to the ILM9 system. For example, when I use LinkedIn, I will write a template for ILM9, for people with the title that I want, people from the same company. For example, I create a template and code messages for those who answer me. Then I follow up by scheduling phone interviews, just informational. For example, I want to ask what the culture is like. Or I see a friend who shared that when you network with ILM9, there are a lot of companies that only have jobs for internal candidates. But if an internal candidate refers, people from outside can also apply. When you reach out to a lot of people, there are a lot of companies that not everyone knows that you can apply. That's one way to use ILM9. Secondly, I want to talk more about blogging. There's one thing I feel when you apply for business, you have to share knowledge about... I'm not sure because I don't share much about business. But I see a lot of marketing people who share motivational articles. Just sharing has a lot of likes. Brands will reach out to companies and opportunities that aren't necessarily jobs or brand ambassadors. From there, you build a profile. When you have a voice in a certain community, when you go for interviews or job searches, it's a lot more powerful. That's my two cents. Thank you Phuong and Anh Ha. The next question I think it applies to a lot of people who are in their first or second year of university. This question is from a second-year student. She said that when you go for an internship, companies usually choose people with work experience. But in your first or second year, you don't have much work experience and it's hard to apply for an internship. Do you have any experience in your first or second year? You probably don't have much work experience. How do you find a better internship and reach out to companies? There are two points. First, you have to build your portfolio. For example, your portfolio for Bentech is GitHub. You do a lot of projects and post them. When you build your resume, you write a lot about your projects. When I go to an interview and I hear a recruiter talk to new students, they ask me if I'm a second-year student and I don't have experience. The recruiter asks me what I'm doing for Bentech. For business, I have a trick. For example, when I was in marketing, I did a lot of projects as a volunteer. I created a website using Wix. It's really easy. All you have to do is click and drag. You don't have to code anything. It's really beautiful. If you go to an interview and you spend $14 to create an ad, you can post all your projects in the website. It's really beautiful and professional. For example, when you go to a networking event, you can casually put your phone in your pocket and say, I just created a project about Microsoft's metro system. By the way, I have this. People are interested and want to interview me. The way to apply when you go to a career fair is to click the link on the website and go to the recruiter. When you apply, for example, if you want to add something, you can add it. It's not a work experience, but it shows that you can do the work. First, it's about your portfolio. Second, when it comes to finding a job, I usually go to AngelList. It's a website that posts jobs for startups. At first, I told you that you should choose an unpaid job because it's less competitive. Once you have an unpaid job, you can leverage it and apply again. For example, if you have a better job, you can go back and negotiate with the company to see if you can pay their salary. That's one way. Go to the website and post jobs for startups. Apply there. If you fail, apply again. That's my way. I think what Phuong just said is very on point. I just want to add some more options for you about technology. For example, if you go to StackOverflow, you can view and expertise about a specific topic and you can answer a lot on StackOverflow. Or you can join competitions such as Kaggle to solve problems about machine learning. Or you can join coding on Topcoder. Those are other ways for you to view your credit. But that's just a bonus. The main part is still the view portfolio, as Phuong said. Okay. The last question for today is for both of our guests. What is the long-term future direction of the two guests in the tech industry? Do you want to be a big company, a startup, or do you have any other plans that you want to share with us? Go ahead. When I first started my career, I went to a lot of panel discussions and I got an advice from a founder who told me that I should be a big company because a big company has a process to train new people with a clear structure. I will be able to train better there. After that, I can jump to a startup or I can continue to be a ladder in a big company. For me, when I was working in Microsoft for a short time and started a startup, I really like the culture of a startup because I feel like I make more impact and I have more on-hand work. But at first, I was lucky to have a job in a big company because I also want to understand what it's like to be in a big company full-time. I also want to understand what I need to run a big company. So I really want to start my career in a big company. After that, I can jump to a startup or I can do... I don't know about Vietnam, but I'm pretty sure that my future career is a PM. I want to work in a smaller company so I can make more impact. As for me, well, the thing that makes a big company or a startup the most important thing for me is the impact and whether I feel fulfilled with the job I do or not. It's true that in big tech, you can learn a lot about the process, a lot of tools and a lot of support. But sometimes you feel like you're just a small part of the whole system. For example, I worked at Microsoft for Windows Team for 5 years. You can say that Windows 10 has 600-700 million users, but that's just a number when you don't feel anything in your life. It doesn't mean anything. I don't feel that what I do has any impact on others. I don't feel that what I do has any impact on the organization. Because a few years ago, in 2014, Microsoft cut 10% of their workforce at Windows Division. It was cut the day before, by algorithm. And the next day, they took everything away. Immediately. The organization was able to fire 1,000 people without any transfer. And everything was back to normal. Come back as a business as usual. The next day. I think that my value as a business is insignificant. Insignificant. So the reason why I want to switch to Code.org is because I feel that it has a bigger impact. I want to prepare young people who are going to school to have a chance to learn about the technology of the future. I want to prepare them for the environment of the future. I don't know what my company will be like. Maybe I will open my own company. Maybe I will start a startup. But the most important measure is the impact compared to the time I spent. Is it worth it? Do I feel fulfilled? Thank you, Phuong and Mr. Ha. Today, you have found a job that suits you in the US. It's quite a difficult process. But this process will be much simpler when you gain experience and deep guidance. Today, we have Phuong and Mr. Ha. For those of you who are looking for your dream job and want to receive guidance from experts who are experienced and successful in the US, you can connect to our VNVN system. VNVN Career has launched a one-year job referral program called Job Referral and a career mentoring program called Career Mentoring Program. When you join the VNVN system, you will be connected to the experts in the field you are looking for. For more information, please visit VNVN's website. Once again, I would like to thank Phuong and Mr. Ha for coming here and sharing their blood, sweat, and tears with you today. These lessons are precious and hard to find in any other platform. Thank you. Thank you for watching. I hope to see you again in the next episodes of VNVN. Goodbye.