Advice for Strong Relationships from Jordan Peterson

So what advice can you give to people who are looking to have a strong and meaningful and lasting relationship with someone? Well, the first thing is to decide if that is really what you want. Is that fair, do you think, to say, I want to be single forever? Do you think that's realistic or fair assessment of oneself? I think that's, for most people, a pathway to insanity. You know, the psychoanalysts used to think that, and we all think this way in some ways, that you're sane because you're well put together. Your psyche is well structured, right? It's internal, somehow inside your head. And there's some truth in that, but here's a more accurate viewpoint, I think. You outsource most of your sanity, because it's too complicated. And so what you do is, your parents raise you to be vaguely acceptable to other people. And then you're surrounded by other people your whole life. And then every time you go off the rails a little bit, even just a little bit, people signal to you. Like, you make a joke, it's not that funny, and people don't laugh. And you think, oh, well, you know, I should probably rethink my sense of humor a little bit or pay more attention. Or you tell a rambling story and you notice that everyone's, like, lost in the distance. So if you're civilized enough so that people don't shun you, and you have people around you, then they're going to be always telling you how to not be too insane. Well, if you're alone, you drift. You drift. And you'll drift in the direction of your biggest weakness. And so, you know, there are some people, maybe they're introverted and disagreeable. They're not cut out for a lot of social contact. But we're social animals, man, right to the core. And it's a suboptimal solution for the vast majority of people. I think that people are having a harder time finding, like, let's call them more permanent relationships. It's because it's become increasingly easy to have fleeting, casual, sexual relationships. I mean, Tinder is a revolution, right? It's a revolution in sexual behavior, and it's certainly not obvious that it's one that's... Is it a social thing? Is it just technology? Is this what people want to be doing? It's easier in some ways. But the technology has enabled this fleeting sexual activity. Oh, definitely. Definitely. And we don't want to underestimate how radical a technology that is, especially for men. I do feel that deep down that all these people, men and women alike, are always longing for something more meaningful. Well, I think that that's generally the case. I mean, you know, part of the reason for a relationship is sexual contact, obviously. Well, you don't necessarily need a relationship for that. But that's not the reason to be with someone. The reason to be with someone, well, there's a lot of them. So one is, well, kids who have two parents do far better, period. The data on that is crystal clear. It doesn't mean that there aren't many single parents who struggle to do a wonderful job. That's not the same thing. It's an average issue. So you need... Plus, it's a lot of work to have kids. You know, you kind of need to divide up the labor, especially in the first year or two. Because a woman is completely overwhelmed in the first year. And she needs somebody around to take care of her while she's taking care of the kid, fundamentally. Or at least that's the way it looks to me. So there's that. You need a stable basis for children. And it takes them a long time to mature. And they need to learn that relationships are trustworthy. So there's utility and stability there. But then also, you kind of want to tangle your life together with someone. Because you have someone to... Well, it's like two ropes that are tangled together. It's stronger, especially during times of weakness. And you have two brains instead of one. And that actually turns out to be really helpful when things are complicated. And it builds a solidity into your life and a reality into your life. To have someone who's along with you on this very long voyage. And so I think that deepens your life in a way that isn't really possible with fragmentary relationships as a single person. Definitely. And then there's more to it than that. It's like... I think of wrestling... There's this scene in the Old Testament where Jacob wrestles with an angel. He's wrestling with God, actually. Which is quite an interesting... That's what Israel means, right? Wrestling with God. Yeah, that just blew me away when I learned it. Is that true? The true people of Israel are those who wrestle with God. Yeah, it's not believe exactly. It's a whole different thing, man. It's a whole different thing. Isn't it like fear from God? What it means? That's what I thought. Well, from the work I did in the last couple of months looking at this, and I looked into it quite deeply. It does mean wrestling, essentially. And it does derive from that scene in the Old Testament where Jacob wrestles with God. That's when he gets the name Israel. And his hip is dislocated, right? Permanently. He has a permanent limp after that. It's no joke. But I think of marriage the same way. People think, well, they lived happily ever after. It's like, that's not what you want in a marriage. You want someone to contend with. Because you learn through that wrestling. You learn where you're an idiot and where you should stop being. And vice versa. That's the spiritual aspect of marriage. It's the fact that you have to contend with someone under all sorts of circumstances. Theoretically, it's a manner of promoting psychological or you could say spiritual growth. And it's genuine. That's why marriage is a sacrament in most human communities. It's stamped both by the state and by the sacred authorities. Because it's not just a physiological union. That's what animals do. There's nothing wrong with the physiological union. But it has to be placed in the context of everything else a human being is. And I do think it's dreadful for people not to have that. Do you think it's become harder for people to have meaningful, lasting relationships? Or has it always been this hard? I feel like, I thank God that I'm not dating now. Because I feel like it seems like it's miserable out there right now. Well, it's hard. To try to meet people. It is hard. Although, you know, it's easier to meet people because there's more ways of meeting them. But the ways of meeting them are more shallow. In my clinical practice, I would say that the rise of the internet dating option has actually, overall, been good for people who are looking for a partner. Now, there is some speculation and some evidence that it lowers the transaction price of separation and divorce. You know, because one of the reasons you don't separate or you don't get divorced is like, well, you're going to find someone else. And if it's easier to find someone else, then perhaps you're more tempted to sever the relationship. So maybe you lose in one place where you gain in the other. But I think there are different kinds of hard that it is. You know, it's hard for couples to figure out how to manage two careers. It's hard for women to figure out how to get educated and get their career launched at the same time that they're finding a partner and having kids. Because women have this tight time frame. You know, I mean, they've got to get a lot done by the time they're mid-30s for sure. And so it's not much time. You know, it's like 15 years, really, from the time you're an adult. You better get at it. It's not very long. So I think there are new challenges that have arisen that weren't there for previous generations. But previous generations had it hard in other ways. That's so true, yeah. Like dying at 50. Or in childbirth, for example. I feel like people also need to understand how to make a relationship work. Like, it's not just magic. You need to kind of put in the work to make it work. It's hard. You need to put in effort and compromise a lot of times. If you live by yourself, you can do everything the way you would want. If you live with someone else, then there's compromises to make. But in the long picture, it's better for you. Well, that's it. There's sacrifices to be made in the short term. People have to. The effort issue is like... Well, when you're in love with someone, you're going to organize your schedule and make them a priority. And that's, in some ways, a fleeting state. Although, it's not necessarily as fleeting as people think it is. But whatever. It's obviously a priority. Then you get married, and you kind of get accustomed to having each other around. And then everything else is more important. And the relationship drifts to the bottom. And then people get dissatisfied. And they start looking for excitement and adventure otherwise. Well, you can't do that. You have to prioritize the relationship. My observation, clinically, has been for a couple to maintain their relationship without it deteriorating. They have to spend 90 minutes a week together talking about their lives. About how the house is run. About what they've all been doing. To keep their stories caught up. That's not really even that much. No, it's not. It's not. It's not that much. Which is a good thing. You can actually do it. And then they need to spend at least one time having a date. And two is better. One is necessary. Two is better. You can't aim for a lot more than that. Because, you know, life is very busy. And if it's going to be sustainable, it has to be realistic. They need to make time for each other twice a week. And talk in a non-romantic way. Just practically about the domestic economy and about everything that's going on. And that keeps people tied to each other. And updated. And so that's sort of your minimal commitment level if you don't want things to deteriorate.