House Hacking in Hawaii: Real Stories & Pro Tips

Aloha, hey it's Julie Zemelis 365 Hawaii with Real Broker and I am here with my co-conspirator Amber Lane. We decided to create this Ask Us Anything experience to basically invite the people that want to think about moving to Hawaii are already here trying to figure out how to buy a house, how to just move here, a place to come and ask questions. And I'm also here with Eric Zemelis, our team member. And Jen Escalante actually jumped on here before we started recording and she has questions too. But today it seems that because we also had a phone call right before we jumped on, that this discussion I think is going to be a little bit about cracking the nut of trying to get to Hawaii and understanding about trying to get foreclosures and also maybe do auctions and trying to figure out other things that you can do to basically house hack to try and get to Hawaii. So Amber, tell them about that experience that you had with the foreclosure and a little bit more about what's going on with trying to get on a list for what's happening with homes that go on auction. Well, I have very little experience in this department just because we don't really have all that many foreclosures here in Kona. Our property values are pretty high. And so it really takes a unique situation for people to have to foreclose on their home. But it does come across every so often. Usually the house is incredibly distressed. It's been vacant for years and years, so it's been closed up in a moist environment. The elements have taken effect to it. Sometimes there's squatters or tenants that have to get evicted and they've destroyed the house. So it's definitely not for the weary. It's for people who really want and are willing to spend their free time and weekends and in unforeseeable future, really fixing up a place and whether it's themselves or hiring people and managing contractors to come in and things like that. But it is an affordable option to get property here and in a place that is an expensive place to buy. So I recently sold a foreclosure in Hulu Aloha. It was one and a half acres, I think like a 1987 house. And we closed at five hundred and ninety five thousand, which is a huge steal. That's what vacant land is going for in this area. So, you know, you can score some some really good deals. Yeah. OK, so you got to tell them what was that first place on the market for? Oh, it was like nine hundred and ninety nine thousand and the house sat for years and it would go off the market and then come back on the market. And this was definitely a unique property. You know, the drive to get down to the house was a really steep one lane road that you kind of have to like pull over very Hawaii, like off road rural country. But pull pull over as another car is coming. And then the neighbor down there did not really want the house to sell. He wanted to actually buy it himself, but he wasn't willing to pay more than four hundred thousand dollars for it. So he was trying to scare off other prospective buyers. He went down there trying to show our client that. And that's exactly what happened. Oh, you did. OK, it was an experience. Yeah. So it wasn't for everyone. It really took a specific buyer to go for that property and see the value and not be scared by that stuff. But this I also have another client who is looking for a fixer upper, a deal, and we are looking at an auction property right now. And so this was a really unique situation, too, because the house wasn't listed in our Big Island MLS. It was listed in a Wahoo MLS. It was hard for me to get information. But there are a few auction sites that you can go to. There's auction dot com. There's HUBZoo and there's Exome. Exome. And you can see if any auction properties pop up on those sites. And with both of these, you know, with the auction, we're just kind of dealing with a website and they will spell out a little bit of information there. But the biggest hurdle is it's really hard for me to get any information about the property. So I'm looking through the county tax records right now. We're checking all the permits to see if the building has been finaled. There's issues. Some of the plumbing wasn't finaled. I'm not quite sure what the status is. So you're definitely taking on more risk when you're going for these properties. There's not a seller filling out a seller's disclosure, telling you everything they know about the property. You don't get any of that. You are just assuming the property and the condition it's in. And you're trying to piece together the puzzle of whatever information you can find online. Yeah. And so, you know, people don't really understand the concept of what happens when you buy a house without permits, too. But Jen had, you know, Jen, did you have a I know that you have to, you know, jump off at some point here. Did you have any other questions, too, about trying to crack the nut of figuring out a way to get here? You were thinking about maybe trying to house sit your way to finding a house. And Jen has actually done something very clever, is that she has found a way to get into our community and she gets recommendations for house sitting. Right. And so you've done that quite a few times and then just waiting for your husband to be able to retire to be able to figure out a way to come here. Right. Kind of pay off everything. And and we already feel like we're part of the community from just visiting and for many years and volunteering. But being there full time is really what we want to do. It's just trying to figure out the best way to get there financially and, you know, selling some things. And but just I mean, it's it's a process. Yeah, yeah. And it's obviously it is it's not an easy experience. And so you do have to have some planning and some sacrifice to make it happen. But I'll tell those people who are watching that there are opportunities like what Jen is doing. And it's through, you know, it's who you know. And she volunteered and she helped me put on the parades. And because she jumped in, she was able to do some remote work for us. She was able to get into some extra sitting experiences. She was able to like actually sit in our house and I connected her with other people. And she's been able to do that. And I think a lot of being able to be here successfully also is getting into the community before you actually get here. And that gives you those word of mouth experiences that maybe somebody is going to about to sell a house and doesn't want to put it on the market and you can get a deal that way. And again, it's who you know. And also like what Jen's doing, she and her husband come over often enough to make friends. They're digging in. Right. And so there might be a chance when you keep telling people you're looking for a house that is going to be off the market because you can't afford, you know, eight hundred, nine hundred thousand dollars that maybe someone says, you know, I like you enough that I'm going to give you a deal. Right. And that happens. So so thank you. And we're rooting for you. So I've got a couple I've got a couple of thoughts on going back to our foreclosure discussion there. One thing I'm going to say is that we do not have a lot of foreclosures. You know, there's the idea of coming here and seeing that you're going to get this, you know, many, many ideas of foreclosure is not going to happen. And I mean, there's probably only only a few from what I know of. And the other thing that I'm going to say about it is from what I've seen, I've had I've known a couple of people that have tried to do it. There is a large competition for these resources because everybody knows that a foreclosure is a is a good property. There's a fine line between knowing how much work is going to go in it versus the price. And if you're like example, if you didn't know that the permits weren't pulled and it's going to require more effort to do that, you could lose that one as well by overpaying. And it's really it's a you have to be pretty savvy to understand exactly where that that price is going to be, because it's not just a standard, you know, a standard flip. There's there's other things that go into it that go along with that. But I do have a suggestion that is sort of similar to that, but also works pretty well. A lot of people, what they do is they there's a lot of houses out here that were built long ago and have never been updated, never been really not maintained. But I mean, they're they're they're owned by people that are in need of some serious work. And so they go on deciding that they're going to sell them at the market rate. And what happens is nobody wants to buy them because they need so much work that it's not worth it. So they slowly sit on the market for long periods of time. And then it enables somebody who's got some ability to fix some things to come in and say, well, you need to sell this place. I need to be willing to buy it. And now we're coming close to what a foreclosure property cost would be. And you at least know that, you know, that it was been maintained, not maintained, but at least that it's been owned by somebody. No one poured concrete in the. Yeah, nobody does it that way. So it's kind of a it's kind of a plan B instead of the foreclosure. You know what I mean? But it still has a lot of the benefits of it. And I think a lot of these people are well, well willing to make a deal. So it might be and you could, you know, you might be able to finance it versus a foreclosure. You might not, depending on what it is. So just there are other ways of going around that and still getting, getting, getting deals. Yeah. And also what some people don't realize, too, is that when you go through a foreclosure, there does not have to be a clear title. So if you buy it and there's not a clear title, trying to resell that becomes very difficult. And trying to get clear title cut, you have to get lawyers involved and, you know, you had quit deeds and everything else. So just know that that's another hurdle once you buy a foreclosure. And then, Amber, what kind of I mean, if you when you saw that house that was a foreclosure, I mean, that needed like a lot of work to get. I mean, in this I typically in this I straight up will tell my clients it's like I would not sell this to just anyone. Like it really would have to be the right person who understands what they're getting themselves into. And everyone and I and I even still try to discourage it. And just to make sure these people are really thinking it through. And because people will get really caught up in that price, but without really understanding the work that they're getting themselves into. And it's not for everyone. And there's a lot of risk. It always costs more than you think it's going to. And it takes a lot of time. And so I mean, it's challenging here. We don't have enough laborers to do all of the work that we need here. Everyone's really busy getting people to show up and call you back and do a good job. And and then you really have to pay for it because those people who do that charge appropriately. So, so, yeah, you really have to be signing up for some serious work ahead of you if you if you want that. And, you know, people get really caught up in the HDTV house flipping love it or list it type things. But let me tell you, it is not that glamorous. Especially here in Hawaii, you know, with going back to labor and getting people to help you. We just met with a couple that they wanted to think about selling their one bedroom, one bath condo. And they were trying to get new cabinets put in. And they called somebody and then they said that person never showed up after calling them twice, never showed up to actually help put the cabinets in. And she is using as a vacation rental. So she doesn't leave her full time. And, you know, it's a person who lives here. You kind of go, hmm, because and she kind of called it herself. She said, I bet that they have bigger projects that pay more money than someone coming in. I mean, I just I just had my shower tiled. And he said, the only reason why I answered your call is because you knew someone, a mutual friend. And I would have never taken this job had you not known this person because it was small potatoes compared to what he's usually doing. And there and it still cost a pretty penny. So it's just like, oh, thank you. You know, for showing up, let me pay you all this money. But that's just the reality. So if you are a tiler or plumber, electrician or any any vendor in that industry, please come on out because we need you here more than ever. And we can happily connect you with our clients who are looking for people like that. Yeah. But yes, that's that's the reality we're living in. Yeah. And again, you know, when it's like when I was traveling, I looked at maps and then I get there and I'm like, oh, that's not what I was thinking it was going to be like. That's about coming to Hawaii and thinking that you're going to get builders to help you. Because I don't think sometimes people realize that there's multimillion dollar houses, 40 minutes, not even 40 minutes, 25 minutes south of I mean, north of Kona. And those moneyed individuals can pay very good money for our tradespeople and they get pulled up there. Obviously, why wouldn't you want to make twice as much as you could make in Kona? But it's brain drain and talent pull from even Kona. Now, if you're trying to think about saving money and you're down in Milili'i or down in some of those south, south, south Kona places where you think you're getting a deal, those people do not want to drive all the way out there to help you. Right. And so then that's like an hour drive. So for them to have to go get supplies, that's a big pain in the butt. Yeah. So just to put things in perspective, we were down in Milili'i yesterday, two days ago. That's why I bring this up. We were watching a they were pulling in some some some gravel that they were going to be using on a project. And they drove it all the way down. You know, here's this huge truck of gravel driving all the way down and down this dirt road. And, you know, it was a big deal. And, you know, put a lot of strain because it was a steep road and all this kind of stuff. So just that's just to get a load of gravel down there. You know, you can imagine every single thing has to go through that to get to where this location is. So, of course, it takes some, you know, and I'm sure the delivery is, you know, they have an extra delivery charge for a special price for you. So in Milili'i, you could buy they have these little houses that are like, let's say, three hundred fifty thousand dollars. You're basically living in a box, but you have an ocean view and you're living in Hawaii. But if it's something you're trying to build because you're thinking it's cheap, you're going to get a cheap house, you're going to pay for it one way or the other. And that's kind of what we're talking about, is that there are no deals in this town because it's going to you're going to pay one way or the other. Right. So you go in thinking, OK, I'll fix it up. And then you're paying for trades. And even when you think that you want to do it by yourself, you're at the holding costs and you're trying to do it. You're trying to go to Lowe's and Home Depot and do everything else. It just takes time and effort. That's all. So some other house hacking strategies that people do here is, well, one that we're seeing more and more of Realtor.com has been putting out studies about this, but we're just seeing an uptick in multigenerational housing where people are having to live with their extended family in order to make it work. It's the reality we're living in. And then also, you know, here we have the Ohana, which is like a mother in law suite that you can have as part of your property, whether it's on top or below or to the side. And sometimes there's more than one. So people will buy properties that have the Ohana so that they can have rental income, whether it's from long term rentals or vacation rentals. Or again, that's another multigenerational house because you can have family members living in there, too. So it gives you some options to help afford the mortgage. Yeah. So if you can go in with them, if you can go in with other people to do that, there are like the house that we live in is basically a triplex. And thank goodness that people bought and they made these things in the 70s and 80s and the 90s as they were building out a lot of Kona. So the opportunity to be able to buy a preexisting home that's not brand new, that you can go in and do some fixers, but it also has a place where people can actually put another family member, like you said, or make some money. And even in our neighborhood, like almost every single person in this whole neighborhood has some level of an Ohana unit. They're using it for family or rent, long term rental or short term rental. So it's an opportunity. Eric, I was going to say, but the downfall of that, of course, is that it has a higher price tag to get into it. Right. And everybody wants it. So whenever someone calls me and says they want to have a house under a million with an Ohana, you're just like, oh, you know, put it up above a million. Yeah. When we were looking for this place, we were right at the price price point where everyone else was. And, you know, they went off the market quickly because they were there. It was they made money. That was that was the thing. And because they make money, they they can charge more. I mean, it just works like that. And they don't come off. They're not every every house is this way. They're there. They're, you know, to find the right configuration is tricky as well. But it can be done. But it's something to, you know, think about. And there are a lot of it. You just have to be able to to kind of keep your eyes open. Yeah. And here's another opportunity. So the state just passed a new bill allowing accessory dwelling units, which now they're calling ADUs instead of Ohana units. And if you bought a piece of property with a house on it and there's enough room that you could have its own and there's like a story with this and we can do some research on this one. Basically, it has to have basically its own septic system. You basically have to have a house that basically is not going to be another cesspool experience. So you basically have to make sure it has some way smart treatment plant basically in the house. But they're allowing that as a zoning opportunity. Now, before that was not going to be zoned. They weren't going to let us do it. And then all of a sudden they've decided that now this is an opportunity to build affordable housing. So if it's something that you want to consider, building an Ohana unit exactly is not it's another ninety thousand hundred thousand dollar experience. But you could do that and then bring in another family member or use that to help fund the entire experience. They have construction loans that you could actually get. Then once it goes back, you can use the money from the rental to help pay off the construction loan. So again, at least there's one little thing that's happened just in the last year that could help add value to a home by actually adding that extra income potential in the backyard. I've got one thing to say that talking going back to our idea of foreclosures and property that is in distress. So we call them distressed properties, whether it be foreclosure or not into foreclosure, but still distressed properties. One other thing, and I think you know more, Amber, than than I do, but also to qualify for a loan for it. There are certain criteria that the bank needs to have. Right. And we know it needs to have a decent roof and we know the bathroom needs to be in existence. You know, you can't buy a house that's completely gutted, right? Otherwise it's cash only. But that also leaves an opportunity if you're a cash buyer. There's a lot of places that didn't you know, they won't qualify for loans that you could get into that other people can't. Yeah, those those places ideally want a cash offer so they don't want contingencies. They don't want a general inspection. They don't want a termite inspection. They just want like this one on the auction site said absolutely no contingencies that these buyers are trying to get a loan. It's very iffy whether or not they'll be able to pull that off. I didn't think the last one was going to be able to get a loan and it somehow it did. It really all comes down to the appraisal. And when you get a loan, you're required to have an appraisal so that they can ensure that they're lending the appropriate money on the property. They don't want to give too much on a property that's not worth it. And so it really all comes down to whichever appraiser gets selected, goes into the home and then they decide, you know, they could give you conditions that need to be met in order to fund the loan, which would be like, you know, making sure there's appliance there, appliances there, making sure the windows are intact, making sure there's a kitchen, the kitchen, the roof, like whatever it is. So it's kind of a wild card that you don't know how it's going to pan out. If if they give you those conditions, the buyer is going to have to come up with the money to do that before they even own the property because the bank isn't going to touch it. And so the buyer is taking all the risk there and so many different ways. But to even do those things and then hope that this loan does get funded and closed so that they can get the property. So definitely more work, more risk, not ideal, but it's an option. Right. And then also the question we got today from a woman that was trying to go through this is, do you use a realtor like us to do that? And I would say, yes, you should use a realtor one way or the other, because obviously a lot of the people who own those properties are banks and they're not going to actually do your best diligence in terms of helping you through the process. So definitely, you know, use a realtor. And then also, if you do see properties like the ones you're mentioning on that site, you could like, you know, call us and we can give you the lowdown on why that property might be foreclosure, because sometimes you're not understanding like the nuances of like a lava zone or a sketch neighborhood that might be like, like Eric, they went down to look at a property and the property actually had a huge lava tube in the middle of the property. That's the reason why it was so inexpensive. There's usually a reason why something is an expense. In fact, before Jen dropped off the call, she had asked me about an eighty five thousand dollar leasehold condo at Ilani, there she's back. And Jen, you're thinking eighty five thousand dollars for a condo. That's just sounds like my idea of a good time. Right. Well, yeah. And I was looking at like, you know, I'm like, OK, so as I asked her and I'm like, hey, give me some insight on, you know, because it's a leasehold, you know, and then I kind of Googled it and I was you know, they said, oh, well, you know, for for people that don't have, you know, something to get like family that, you know, that they can give a house to, you know, if they were to pass, blah, blah. But then I was looking and I'm like, OK, so I would need to live there full time. I can't use my VA loan for a leasehold property if I don't live there full time. And I can't use my VA loan because the leasehold expires in twenty, twenty nine. And I think a VA loan, I think you need like 10 plus years. I think. Yeah. A lot more than 30 years or 15 or 20 or something. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm sitting there. I'm like, OK, so this fifty thousand or this eighty thousand and like that's doable. But then I was just like, no, it's not. I mean, it's not. It doesn't make sense. Yeah. And when in particular was really strange, too, because Jen was so like, just please, I'm like, I hate leaseholds. I just hate them. I don't want to deal with it. It's going to find out exactly what's going on. I'm like, OK, OK. So I did. And it was so weird that they want you to buy out the leasehold for was like four hundred and some one thousand dollars. And this has been on market for my two hundred ninety five days, whatever. And so whatever happened that this is a new thing that for every month after the April time frame, it was going up four thousand dollars a month. The longer it's sitting on the market, the more expensive it is becoming. And they want you to buy out the leasehold. So by the time that you're spending four hundred fifty thousand dollars to buy out this leasehold, here you are. You're buying a condo for what most people are buying condos for. So, again, that does show that there is no deal when you're trying to think about leasehold, because there's always something that seems to be the catch and why it's on the market like that. Yeah, I mean, that's a whole can of worms we can get into. But the one thing that I like to point out is like it's eighty five thousand dollars in in this current market. That's a good indication of how the resale value it's not going to appreciate in the way that a fee simple condo would. It's just not a good investment. Like if you wanted to, there are one place I entertain is Kona Islander, because if you were going to get a vacation rental, that's a really good location. I think you could have pretty good occupancy. It might make financial sense to have a buy a cheap condo there and you might be able to make. And those are going for about two twenty five, two fifty and they're 100 condos. They look like hotel rooms. Yeah. Yeah. But but otherwise you're a glorified renter. You don't own the place. There's a lot of risk involved. There's your mortgage. There's any HOA fees. And then there's leasehold rent. So by the time you combine all of those, it's really not that great of a deal. And and then it's hard to sell. You're not going to make much money off of it. You don't know what's going to happen with the lease. That's a huge risk factor. They like they said, they there's some that don't want to renew the lease. And then each owner has to come up with a certain amount of money after they evaluate the property of what you have to buy out the lease for. Otherwise, you put it on the market and try to get the next person to. And you can't sell it. So it's just not ideal also. Yeah. So I have I have a couple of couple of comments. One is there's a there's a leasehold complex in town called Kona Kona Kai. And they are going to come to the they're going to come to the end of the year. And their prices now are about one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to buy a condo right now and leasehold. But it's only going to about twenty, thirty two or thirty four somewhere around there. And it's literally going to end and they're going to take a bulldozer and they're going to bulldoze that entire place down. So here you are buying this condo thinking you own a condo. Well, you own a condo for the next how many years until it essentially disappears. So everybody says, well, I can get this great condo for this price. But is it worth it? You know, at a certain point, it's rent. You know what I mean? You're not you're not actually buying the condo. You're just leasing it during the time it is in your rent. That's the way that works. And one thing we haven't talked about a little bit about this kind of continuing our thoughts with leasehold is leasehold houses in agricultural areas. Right. And South Kona is known for a lot of a lot of those. And everybody says, oh, my gosh, I can get a house at about a third of a third cheaper than a normal house would be in that area. But again, there's stipulations that go along with that. And some of the stipulations are, of course, that it has to be used for agricultural use. You can't just come in there and do something else with it. Second of all, is that depending on the lease, sometimes they will require part of your profits from the agricultural that you're going to sell need to be given back to the landlord as well. And the other one I've heard, and they vary, but some of them, if you make any money at the end of the lease, part of that money goes back to the goes back to the landlord when you're trying to sell it as well. The lease leasing lease or is what it is. So there's some definitely some thumbs in it. But the beauty of that, at least for a lot, for some people, if you wanted to get into farming quickly, it enables them to get into a much bigger farm than it would be if you were to try to buy it outright with doing it. But you're kind of like a sharecropper, sharecropper, right? Trying to get it done that way. You're a serf. But the people that I've seen actually do that, just so you guys know, too, that when Eric and I first got to the island, let's say in 2005, people were buying those land and then he would just sit on it and they would go, okay, I live in paradise. And that was back when the lease hold fees were like, I don't know, $300 a year. It was like, it was like not that much. And then what would happen is the price of real estate started going up and who basically owned that was Bishop Estates, which is basically in King Kamehameha like the Hawaiians basically. And then they started seeing the value of that real estate. So the leases started as soon as the leases switched, they went up exponentially and then they started this. You have to farm the land because they saw the value in taking a piece of what the crop was. Well, a lot of these people had gotten to this land without any farming experience. And all of a sudden they're responsible for like farming and I don't know what to do. So when it switched over now to get those lease hold times, you have to have a farm plan. You have to show that you know what the hell you're doing and the fact that you were actually going to work the land and that that way they can make their money on the crops. So again, this isn't just for some guy coming in from a part of the mainland thinking, I'm just going to sit on this land and have this beautiful view. And as long as I can afford to live there, fine. No, you have to actually do the work and that's hiring. If you don't want to do it yourself, that's hiring. Basically, the people that are going to come in and pick the crops and all that stuff. So you're basically still having to lose a little piece of what it costs to hold the land. Am I right? We're not trying to be depressing guys. We're just not, we're just like the truth. Um, and you know, and again, we know that people are looking for affordable, cheap land. In fact, Eric and I did a video with our friend, Nannie Madrid, who's on our team about buying cheap homes in South Hawaii in the Ka'u district and HOVE and some other places. And that had 90,000 views on that condo. I mean, on that video because so many people are trying to crack this nut and how to live here and do it in an affordable way. And, uh, you know, this conversation goes around the fact that there's a lot of different things to consider if you're looking for a place to try and like, you know, Totally. And if you, if that's what you want, if you want the South Kona, cheap real estate, if you want a foreclosure or an auction or leasehold, that's one thing and we're here to support you and lead you through that. But we also want to give you a, like a major reality check of what that actually looks like so that you, um, you know, don't have all rainbows and butterflies in your head when it's, it's not going to be quite like that. And I think coming from the mainland, you have a completely different idea of what real estate is like. And then you come here and you start realizing that, you know, that, that, that, uh, that, that leasehold is going to end at a certain date. Nobody would have ever thought about that before. You're like, no, no, you're going to end that. And that's, you know, shocking to a lot of people, or, you know, just, or the fact that you're on lava zone too, and all of a sudden you can't get insurance past $450,000 anymore. Right. So, uh, which means that you can't, you can't finance a house more than $450,000 because that's what it's going to cost to do that. And you're, you're just, and you know, I heard the, your insurance, your insurance payments for that would be $5,000 a year. So you have to think, wow, even though I can afford the house, can I afford the insurance? But if I'm going to get a lease, I need to have the insurance. So there you go. So it, it, there's all these little mortgage, you have to have insurance. And some people are doing is they're buying $250,000 houses down there and they're just not carrying insurance on it. And they hope that, you know, uh, a lava flow doesn't come and take out their house. And if it does, they basically said, well, it was rent. So if you can do that, but, uh, some people are doing, uh, are, uh, you know, another hack we're talking about would be, um, would be, um, uh, coming in and doing a condo and then renting it out. Right. I mean, you know, doing a vacation rental condo is, is one, and that's been a pretty successful one for a lot of people. I mean, it's not perfect. Uh, and there's a lot of fees that go along with that. I know the, you know, the, the, the, the taxes are high and the, uh, HOA are high, but, and the, you know, fees of, of keeping upkeeping are high. But it is enough that a lot of people are doing it successfully. So that is one thing that is, that has been working, right. You know, just to do it. That works when you have at least 50% or more down. Well, yeah, I didn't say it was cheap. And just, I'm going to say this. I know that if my investment people watching this, they'd say, don't say that. Cause that makes people nervous. Um, the tourism is going down. So there, uh, the occupancy rate is falling. And if you are on the edge, if you're a little investment condo, and now you can't rent the condo out for more than 50 or 60% of the year, that takes a hit on your income. And, uh, I'll say that what's happening with the international market, not coming to Hawaii right now. And, uh, with the tariffs and everything else that a lot of people are traveling. And so that's something to consider when you're thinking you're going to make your income on the tourist industry. Yeah. Whether it's economic sentiment or, you know, we've gone through spouts of the volcano going off and the bog being so bad that people didn't want to travel here or COVID. So that is the downside with vacation rentals is there's unforeseen things that could totally affect your occupancy rate. Um, there is another agent that was just talking to me recently about doing hybrid rental, which is, um, like if there's an owner who wants to come three months out of the year, she'll find a long term or some in between a longterm and a short term tenant to come for nine months out of the year or whatever it is, um, in order to bring in some rental income while you're not here. There's plenty of people who do want to come here to either see if they want to live here or just take a sabbatical, or there's a lot of traveling medical professionals or people who come and work down at OTAC, which is our science and Marine center. So we live in a very transient place. There's people traveling through here all the time. That's another option where it allows you to come stay in your house or condo, but you can also get rental income while you're not here. Yeah. We had a, we had friends that had a condo and once a month, uh, for one month out of the year, they, the people that were in the condo left, right. How they dealt with it. They were, they were taking vacation or go someplace else. Yeah. But they didn't, they didn't charge them rent during that time. So they still had the rent so they could go do something else. Right. You know what I mean? So, uh, and the best one I heard, this was, this was a pretty good one. Uh, we had a friend who had a large house and he would rent it out. Right. And it rented out at a very large amount of money for like $10,000 a week. And he would just try to rent out, but he's living in it during the time. So the minute he rented out for the time they rented, he would go rent a smaller place for his family to stay while this was going on. And he still made money on both of those things. But you know, all of a sudden it was very inconvenient because you know what, 15 times a year, they're moving out of their house, moving somewhere else, which is a transient lifestyle for them. But the, the house that they had was so big and pulled in so much money on VRBO that it made it well worth, well worth doing. Yeah. So there is weird things you guys can do. It's these weird housing hacks. You know what I mean? I guess this thing is kind of turned into the crazy housing out there. Yeah. Um, and uh, I will end this one with one last little story is the fact that, um, the woman that we were speaking with today, she wanted to find a single family house for $300,000 in West Hawaii. And, um, I just, I just don't, I don't see how it's going to work, but I said, you know what, there's strange things that happen, maybe not $300,000. But, um, when you do get to know people on this Island, there's a lot of word of mouth and, you know, people sometimes will find that there's a family that has to leave. And then let's say their kids or parents died. The kids are like, I'm not moving to Hawaii. Um, and someone says, Hey, I know someone who was looking for a house that, you know, is truly trying to live here. And, uh, sometimes again, those kinds of houses go to people who we had a guy that he, he, he, he could have sold his house for $900,000, but he sold it for only eight because he knew that's what the family could afford. And sometimes there's people here who are willing to say, you know what, I'm just trying to help somebody out. And if you have a good story, if you're here and you're doing something in community and people really want to help you Aloha work sometimes here guys. And so, you know, it's just, it's, it's not impossible, but I think $300,000 for a single family house in West Hawaii probably is. But, um, but if you guys, you know, again, um, I always go with the concept of if you're meant to be here and you do the right thing, you show Aloha and you maybe come as a renter and you get involved, you might know somebody who finally has an opportunity that shows up for you. So you never know. That's kind of like that, the hope and prayer real estate concept. But, um, at least we've given you, you know, really some good information. So if you guys see the step on the internet, you know, what you're looking at and where there's a will, there's a way. And I just believe if you're taking the steps in order to make your dream a reality, it starts to unfold for you, but you do have to be focusing there and putting your energy there and educating yourself and having the conversation, connecting with us, letting us, uh, give you consultation through it. And then slowly, but surely it comes together and becomes a reality, whether it's this year, next year, five years from now, it just, it just, sometimes it takes a little more time. So I have a little thought on that is that when we, when we came here, one of the things you started doing, you started, started focusing on, on, you know, first looking at everything that's out there for sale and kind of studying that over and over. And then you start to see holes where there are some openings and something that might actually be successful to do and then refining it down. You finally get to those. So it's, um, it's one of those, if you've kind of getting back to when you focus on this, you can find some areas that would be able to, to work for you. Yeah. Yeah. And if you guys want to, um, study the market, which people do, which I think is a very smart thing to do, um, is if you want to get on a listing alert with, uh, Eric or, uh, Amber, um, that way you guys get it into your inbox. You become a slam expert on what's coming on the market. And I know some of you are sitting on Zillow, uh, every day, trying to see what's going on. Um, but that's how you actually get very educated about what's happening in the housing market and specialized unique properties sometimes do appear. And sometimes people are in a crisis situation where they have to get out sooner than later and there's opportunities. And as soon as you know, because you know the pricing, you know those areas because you've done the research and what's happening here in Hawaii, then you go, you know what, there's something good about that. And then you might say, Hey, it's time to call a realtor, all three of us. Um, and, uh, we can say here, that looks like a good opportunity. Let's make it happen. So, yeah. So we had a, uh, we had, uh, one of our clients was filing, uh, houses in Lokahi Makai and he was just constantly looking, looking, looking, looking, looking. And all of a sudden one day he calls me up. He goes, that one is $50,000 less than anything else. And so we went that day and we made an offer on it. And the reason it was $50,000 left is because they had already sold it and it fell out of escrow. And the guy just said, I want to get rid of it. I don't want to go through any troubles with doing it. And so he had by the time that we had already made that escrow, he had six people that are already to make an offer on it already, you know, by the time it comes down there and he was successful, you know what I mean? It works. So it's right in, you know, just kind of knowing, knowing what things cost to the right place, the right time. But it's so tricky because there's so many different areas to know. And that's where you kind of focus exactly what you're looking for. Yeah. And again, we had another, in fact, we've had like three or four of these people that things have fallen together for these people looking for these opportunities. Another couple, we're diligently looking at what was going on with the internet. And they had the friend that had access to the previews and we do too, all the realtors here do. And then they saw a house that worked for them. And so they called us and said, can you get us into this house? And we're like, where are you seeing that? And they pointed it out, Michael. Oh, okay. It's not really on the market, but there's a preview experience and we could do that for you guys as realtors. So they got in first ones in and the realtor really wanted to get these people into because they live here full-time and they had three kids and they really wanted a house. And so we got under contract really quickly. And they got the house for a very good price and it's they're happier than crap. And again, it's these things that show up when you're really looking and you understand what the market looks like. And, um, and again, if, if you, if you are looking and, um, you do want to work with us again, if we know that you're looking for something specific, these preview properties come up because sometimes the realtors haven't gotten all the photos up on the internet yet, or sometimes they're holding back a little bit for staging or whatever. But you know what, now that we're in this kind of like dancing market of like realtors, having sellers who understand the pricing right now, because we are in a soft market, the opportunities might be showing up at this point. So this is a good time to actually reach out to us. Let us know. Right. Great time to buy. Really? It is. Right. That's the question. And as you guys are watching this, if you haven't really seen what we offer here, um, on our YouTube channel, we do, um, these market updates. And so like this coming week, I'm doing a market update with Lance Owens, who's the president of the Y association of realtors. And, um, we do, uh, end of market, um, end of month events where we have our, um, Travis Green, who are mortgage guy is, he talks about rates. He talks about what's happening with the mortgage market. And now we're doing these, um, Amber and I are going to do these once a month, um, to, uh, answer questions. And also if you have questions about the things that we're learning about, what's happening with the housing market, the rates and stuff, we'll share with you. And so then you basically have a direct access to, uh, our, uh, expertise. So hopefully this has been valuable for you guys. Right. So, okay. So we'll, we'll, we'll, uh, wrap it up. And if you guys want to join, please send us your email address because then we can send you the zoom link directly. So you don't miss the opportunity, just trying to watch our social media channels. So, um, send an email either to Amber or myself. I'll put the information down in the description. Um, and we'll get you set up and hopefully make you a successful home buyer or investor here on the Island. And thank you Jen for joining us and showing us your thoughts too. So thank you Eric too. And we will guys, we'll see you guys on the next round. Um, so.