Geotechnical Engineering Career Guide: Tips, Challenges, & Growth Strategies

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Geotechnical Engineering Podcast. Today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Intisar Ahmed, who is a geotechnical engineer, EIT, with Thurber Engineering, located in Vancouver, British Columbia. He's an early career professional, but he has extensive experience in geotechnical engineering. He's going to share some things that would be of value to you if you've, you know, new in your career, or to those that are more senior in their career that are mentoring or leading engineers that are early in their career, but give us some things that you should pay some close attention to. We'll talk a little bit about graduate education, talk a little bit about getting that first job and also doing well when you're assigned a task that you don't really understand how to do. How do you get to that finish line? We're going to talk about those things. So I'm your host, Jared Green, and I'm excited to be bringing you another episode of the Geotechnical Engineering Podcast. And with that, let's get right into today's episode. Before we dive in, we'd like to recognize our sponsor for this episode, PPI, a leader in engineering exam prep for the FE and PE exams. PPI provides expert prep courses and study resources designed to help you pass the FE and PE exams the first time. PPI's live online courses include hours of lectures, problem-solving demonstrations, exam strategy sessions, office hours, and a passing guarantee. Check out PPI today at ppi2pass.com to see all the options available for FE and PE exam prep. Now let's dive into today's episode. All right, Intisar, how are you doing? Welcome to the show. Thanks, Jared. Happy to be here. Excellent. Well, it'd be great to kind of set the stage. If you could share a little bit about your personal journey from a fresh graduate of geological engineering to your current role as geotechnical engineer, I believe that's EIT. At Thurber Engineering in Vancouver. Absolutely. Yeah. I started my geotechnical journey while I was a geological engineering student at the University of British Columbia here in Vancouver, British Columbia. Uh, so those of you who don't know where that is, that's just north of Washington state in the US. Uh, during undergrad, I was fortunate to take courses in everything geotechnical related, including soil mechanics, rock mechanics, hydrogeology, engineering, geology, geomorphology, earth dam design, mine waste management, and many more. I supplemented my schooling by pursuing co-op work placements at various large consulting firms. I gained about 16 months of geotechnical experience working on various civil infrastructure projects in the greater Vancouver area. I did everything from data processing, construction, field review, and site investigations during these co-op placements. In my final year, I was looking for a midsize specialty firm where I could continue to develop my geotechnical skills. Um, having had some local experience, I learned that Thurber engineering was a national midsize specialty firm that offered the opportunity to work on a variety of civil projects alongside brilliant and practical engineers. Um, thankfully I was hired and I've been here ever since, except for a year off to complete my, uh, master's degree where I expanded on my previous education and experience with, uh, advanced coursework. We'll talk more about that later. I currently work on field design and project management tasks for a variety of civil projects, including flood protection structures, buildings, highways, and sewers. So yeah, that's me in a nutshell. Excellent. No, that's great. That's great. And, um, we're saying, yeah, it's in Vancouver. This was many years ago, but, uh, it is truly beautiful there. I'm sure we'll see you next year at Geo Congress. Yep. I'm looking forward to, I'm looking forward to February. So I don't know how cold it will get, but we'll see. It never gets too cold here. That's the beauty of it. Excellent. All right. Great. Nice. If you could talk to us a little bit about, uh, balancing work responsibilities or professional development, uh, we know that's a challenge, but how are you managing your time and your commitments to make sure you're growing your career while also being excellent in your current role, how are you balancing all that? Yeah, it can certainly be a challenge to strike that balance. I think, uh, I'm personally, I'm still working on figuring that out. I know there's, there's a lot out there for professional development. So, well, here's my two cents then. Um, I personally view professional development as an ethical obligation to a profession. As engineers, we have a fundamental responsibility to hold paramount the safety, health, and welfare of the public. Um, professional development is a key part of that as we need to stay current with co-changes, state of practice and new technologies relevant to geotechnical engineering. So keeping this context in mind helps me avoid making professional development feel like a chore. And relatively easy to incorporate, uh, into my career, um, this way, rather than seeing work responsibilities and professional development as opposite items on a scale, I consider professional development as part of my work responsibilities. Um, and I think my firm and generally most reputable firms agree with that kind of thinking. However, we should realize that excess professional development is kind of meaningless at face value if we are unable to do our jobs well. So, I mean, it's, you know, we have our duties to our clients. Our colleagues, so to actually fundamentally do our jobs as well. So for me, the key to time management for professional development is to appreciate that it is impossible to do everything without burning out. I try my best to take on only as much work as I can handle as I'm selective about which professional development events to attend. For instance, I value my participation with the Canadian Geotechnical Society, also known as the CGS or the Association of Consulting Engineering Companies, ACC events. And I try to avoid relevant technical presentations, networking events, and conference of conferences offered by these organizations. I also think it is important to be an active participant in these organizations and give back by volunteering. This helps put you in the driver's seat and help steer the direction of our profession. A great way to do this early on in your career is being involved in young professionals groups. Here in Canada, we recently started a young professionals group in the CGS. I think this is a great way to test the waters of active participation in industry societies. You'll also learn a lot of teamwork and leadership skills that may not necessarily be available otherwise. So I think, you know, attending, staying involved, there's a lot of benefit to professional development, but just be careful about not taking too much more than you can handle and also remember to do your job well. That's good. The reality is that, um, you know, it's never too early to get involved. And sometimes people, when I talk to people that, you know, they wait five, 10 years and then start to give back. And then it's really hard because you're so used to just doing your job. But when you start early, just like you said, the younger member forms and things of that sort, you just show up, right. Just show up, build your network. But it's so important if you're super active, but you don't know what you're doing for your firm. You know, you gotta have a balance. So that I liked the way you said that. Exactly. You can start as early as being a student too. I think I started in third year undergrad. There's lots of student chapters out there. I know ASCE has them in the States. We have them for the CGS. Uh, so there's so many opportunities out there. Just, you know, pick what resonates with you. And, um, yeah, I'm sure all, all these societies are always looking for volunteers. It's not going to be hard to find these opportunities. Always. Yeah. I hear people, they say, Oh, I want to give back, but I don't know. It's like, they're, they're going to need help. Right. Just raise your hand, raise your hand for something. All right. Great. Now, now, um, you know, you can look through your journey as an early career career professional. What are some of the significant obstacles you've faced and how did you overcome them? Oh, I guess this could on its own, be its own little podcast if you'd like, but I've had many obstacles, but I'll give you the one. I think this is very common to many early career professionals. And it's the dreaded imposter syndrome. I'm sure everyone's heard of this. Yeah. I seldom personally have days where I believe that I'm fully confident on my, at my job. Uh, as I'm only about four years in, I have not had enough time in the profession to put my reps into feel most comfort comfort. I'm not even convinced that that ever comes where you feel like. Incredibly confident. You know exactly what you're doing. You're like the guru of geotech. I don't think that's a thing, but, uh, I still remember the anxiety from the first time I was alone supervising a geotechnical investigation, you know, my first pilot installation review for a slope stability analysis, foundation design, finite element analysis, you name it right. For me, I discovered the easiest way to overcome imposter syndrome is to talk to those who have been in my shoes before and simply ask for help. It's also important to ask the question of why a lot, uh, without being annoying, but to help give additional context on why tasks need to be done a certain way. Right. Accepting help from our peers, putting in the time at work, which is, you know, putting in the reps, getting the practice in because it makes perfect. And repeatedly seeking out tasks that push the boundaries of our comfort zone can go a long way in building confidence and alleviating imposter syndrome. There's no shame in acknowledging your limitations. And in fact, it can be downright dangerous not to. Well done. Yeah. The, uh, the concept of the imposter syndrome is that when you get anxious or you feel like you're not successful, although you could externally, you're it looks like you're high performing, but you're like, I don't really know what I'm doing. And that's, it's completely normal. And like you said, this is something that, that you, that you can overcome, but you gotta be systematic with what you just said. You gotta be systematic. And, um, you know, it's like, oh, I need you to design, you know, XYZ or perform this calculation. It's like, this might be the first time that you have done this, but this is not the first time this has been done. Right. So you got to connect to the right person in the organization. Right. Yeah. And there's resources out there to, to help avoid, uh, making it feel like you're faking it till you make it right. There's, there's so much out there. There's so much support out there. You just need to kind of seek it out. Just don't think you're alone in feeling this way. It's a very valid feeling. I think we all have gone through that phase. Um, and especially for, for early career folks, this is, this is something I see a lot, I experienced it, but, uh, just know there's support out there if you seek it out. Excellent. Uh, this is the, you know, we're, we're still in the summer. There's a large number of people that might be listening in that are either in an internship or planning for an internship for a future year. And then there's also folks that are listening or watching that are in new graduate roles. And a lot of times it's challenging when you're first starting out in an organization, organization has been around what, 50, 60, a hundred years, but you've been there five weeks, right? So it can be very overwhelming and very challenging. What is some of the advice that you have for younger geotechnical professions, professionals that are just getting into the job industry, whether it may be part time or actually full-time, what, what are your thoughts there? Yeah. It can certainly be a difficult, um, difficult at first, especially, you know, if you don't have any kind of mentorship or familial relationships where you've, you've been told exactly what to do. It's, it's a new, um, area to navigate for a lot of us. I think there are two parts to this question, you know, one, how to get your first job and two, how to set yourself up for success in it. Right. So we'll start with the first. I fundamentally believe that the best way to land a role is, is networking. Um, I don't really personally believe in online applications, um, too many ways to filter yourself out by the computer. So anyways, attending relevant industry events, such as those hosted by the CGS, you know, the ASEGO Institute, the Deep Foundations Institute, et cetera, are helpful in developing industry contacts. For these events, my advice is to be bold and approach people. Um, ask questions and actively listen. It really helps to also have done some homework as to the types of work you want to do, uh, and figure out who does that work, which kind of firms, you know, might, uh, might be a good fit. Spend, spending some time digging online or, or in person prior to attending events is a really good idea. Uh, regarding on how to succeed in that role, I've had many thoughts, but I'll provide seven aspects, uh, that I found were helpful, at least, at least for consulting geotechnical, uh, aspects. So one, keep an open mind and never turn down work when you're available to do so. Two, be able to communicate with people both verbally and in writing. Three, proactively ask for work when you have nothing assigned. Four, ask for help when you're unsure. Again, that's the imposter syndrome thing there. Five, keep your both yourself and your work well-organized. Six, when your chargeability is low, focus on a value. What I mean by that is, I, we all know what chargeability and all that has to deal with in, in, uh, in consulting where, you know, your time needs to be available to the client, but you can still be, uh, working on things that are high value, uh, such as, you know, reading up on, on, uh, technical manuals or conducting professional development, networking, that kind of thing. So you can do that sort of stuff that you effectively use your time, even if you don't have project work to do. Um, and number seven is remember to pace yourself and come up for air because that career is a marathon, not a sprint. Um, and yeah, so those are my kind of thoughts on how to succeed in your first consulting in geotechnical role. That's great. We'll definitely make sure we get those seven items into the show notes. That was really good. And that, that into sorrow, well, we're, you know, stand on this topic of early career professionals. When they face a new technical task that just seems insurmountable, what's the best way to approach it and tackle something if it's unfamiliar with what you're, you know, what, what's, what's the best way to do that? I don't know about the best way, but I'll talk about what, you know, what I try to do. Um, I mean, this definitely occurs very regularly, early in your careers, everything is new, right? That's a geotechnical engineers, but however, this, this keeps things very interesting. It keeps it very dynamic. It keeps the work from being boring. So there's a blessing and a curse in a way. So what I, what I try to do is I try to get as much information as possible from the person assigning the task. What I mean by the, by that is what are we designing for? What would be a typical solution, right? Are there any reference I should, I reference this. I should be looking at, this could be an internal project files, uh, papers, et cetera. Right. I try to look at previous project folders. I mean, chances are you're in a firm that's done this a lot. Um, so I like look at these folders to see how things were done before. Uh, doing this will certainly expedite the process and at least give you an idea of what your deliverable should look like. Uh, finally, I try to seek ongoing feedback throughout the technical tasks. Uh, sending quick notes to see if you're on the right track and really help you avoid going too far in the wrong direction, because as we know in this industry, time is money. So, um, so we need to be efficient with our time, but, uh, but realize that, uh, we are new at this. Each and every engineer early in their career has experienced their first time engaging in a technical task. Therefore, most are sympathetic and they don't expect perfection immediately. Just remember to communicate to your reviewer. If things, if things are new for you and you should receive sufficient support to be successful in your technical tasks. I think if you're not getting sufficient support, if you're not getting that sort of, uh, senior review help, I think that's a major red flags and you do need to kind of pull the brakes because we should not be going beyond your competence and in these tasks, uh, because you know, our, our, our work has real tangible impact in society. So we need to, you know, work within our means, but, and seek out the support where we need it. Absolutely. Right. And those are, you know, things that you want to establish early on in your career. So it becomes, you know, second nature for sure. And why do you believe that taking ownership of your work is important in geotechnical engineering? I could say it for any, but, but for geotext, why, why is that very important? Sure. I mean, I believe that having a mindset of always taking ownership is the, is the key to achieving career success. And that's in any field, right? So someone who takes ownership doesn't need to be told to go above and beyond. They do so because that is fundamentally aligned with their values. It also means that an individual is self-motivated and reliable. Which are both very important aspects to be successful in geotechnical engineering. Geotech is a very, it's a fairly demanding career. I think, I don't, I don't think anyone who practices it will describe their job as easy. Therefore to do our jobs well, we geotechnical engineers need to hold ourselves accountable, be able to critically assess our work and pursue continuous improvement in our practice. All of this comes naturally when we harbor an ownership mentality early on in their careers. To your point is, yeah, why geotech specifically? It's because there's so much, right? There's, there's so much there. And if we don't take it, take ownership, we don't have that self-responsibility that we might miss things, right? And it's very easy to miss things in geotech from ground conditions, constructor methodologies, communication challenges, right? So, so when you have that internal, like ethos of work, where you, you own it, whatever the task it is, whatever it is, you're not waiting for instruction. You take initiative, then you're much more likely to, to deliver a better product to your client, to your viewer. And ultimately this leads to public safety, better public safety and better, better, yeah, better infrastructure, right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Like I said, it has meaning and purpose, whatever it is that we're doing, we're calculating, we're providing oversight during foundation installation, all of this is going to impact an end user. And everything you do matters, like everything, even the most mundane tasks, like doing blow accounts. You know, at some point, some of this, there might be a claim. There's all these things that go on. Jared seems like, you know, the claim stuff very well. But, but, but yeah, we all do, right? At some point, there's probably a lawsuit coming in our way. At some point it's for geotech, so. Now the reality is that, you know, every piece of, you know, information you'd gather is, you know, could be used by somebody down the line. You want to make sure that it's accurate and true. Exactly. All right. Let's talk about higher education. So, you know, pursuing higher education, it's a common path for geotechnical engineers. I understand you did your master's degree in civil and environmental engineering, focused in on geosystems. How would you say that this contributed to your career advancement? Like, how did that get you to where you are right now? Sure, yeah. Graduate study is very common for geotechnical engineers. There's far too much to cover that is possible in an undergraduate setting. I think most of us also agree that a master's is not the magic bullet. A profession requires lifelong learning. All that being said, my master's was very important to my career. I pursued it after gaining about two years of full-time work experience following my bachelor's. And I had the opportunity to study at UC Berkeley down in the Bay Area for a year and learn from some incredibly knowledgeable and passionate professors and classmates. Moreover, I served as a graduate student instructor for undergraduate courses in engineering geology and geotechnical engineering. Coming back, there were two clear-cut benefits from my master's. One, I learned a lot of new, new to me, I should say, technical concepts in advanced soil mechanics, geotechnical earthquake engineering, and numerical modeling, among others. Those are typically things you might not see in an undergraduate setting, right? And number two is I gained confidence in my fundamentals by teaching undergraduates. Consequently, when I returned to work, I was better equipped to handle design tasks, and this was noticed by more senior engineers. And I was assigned more complex duties, including seismic site response analysis, seismic slope deformation modeling, and foundation design. I'm better able to critically understand why certain decisions are made. Overall, I highly encourage any prospective geotechnical engineer to consider graduate study. So I have just more tools in your toolbox. It'll make you a better engineer and, again, get help, you know, alleviate some more of that imposter syndrome when you have, when you have more background to look at, right, to draw back from. And everything just starts making more sense. You have those little aha moments. Like, oh, I remember that from school. I remember this. I have a reference to look at now. You don't feel as lost when you have that sort of graduate school background. That's great. And, you know, you had two years of experience before going into grad school, and I'm sure that had an impact on how you even looked at things. And that's a question we get a lot. It's like, you know, when should I go? Should I go? And, you know, the reality is that graduate school could be a significant investment of time and money, right? It's like, if you're working and then you go back to school, it's like, it's totally different being a student versus, you know, getting that paycheck every week or two weeks, right? But how would you recommend early career professionals weigh that decision of pursuing an advanced degree versus gaining industry experience? I mean, we know what you did, but what are your thoughts for people that are trying to figure it all out? Sure, sure. Yeah, the graduate school decision, it's a deeply personal one, right? Beyond just career development, there are other factors such as, you know, family commitments, relationships, financial constraints, mental health, etc. that affect if and when someone should pursue graduate studies. These are aspects that each individual will have to self-assess. What I can say is that it is possible to have a very successful geotechnical career without a graduate degree, right? So don't think it's the end all be all. You don't have to do it, right? That being said, I believe that graduate school is generally a good idea for geotechnical engineers. I think the average geotechnical engineer should consider it. In my case, I gained about three years of industry experience, and that includes the internships and includes the full-time work as well, prior to attending. So I think the sweet spot for experience is about three to five years. At that point, I think you have, ideally, enough field and design experience to appreciate the theory being taught. You know, you won't be all the way there, but you'll have something, some level of context, which is a lot better than nothing. You're also more likely to think more critically and ask valuable questions in the classroom setting. And then you're also more likely to be a much better TA if you get a chance to serve in that role. Coming straight out of undergrad, a student may be better equipped to handle the academic rigors. So there is that consideration, right? There is a thing known as the student mentality. You can pull those all-nighters if you need to. You're better equipped at studying for tests. There is that aspect. But I think with the three to five years, you're not that far out where you can't go back to school anymore, I think. And finally, I think for those listeners who are on the fence about graduate school, I suggest they reflect on the roles they want to eventually have in their careers, right? And look at who currently occupies those roles. If the majority of people who have the job you want have graduate degrees or some other qualification, whatever it is, right? I think you have your answer on whether or not to go on for more schooling. I think it makes a much simpler decision there. I like the way you do that. Yeah, you look at where you want to be and look who's there. They all have this thing. You probably should consider going for it. Yeah, and I also like that. I agree with you here in the States that, you know, if you decide not to get a graduate degree, you can still have a very fruitful career. And that's something that, you know, if somebody has an annual review and you know you're not going to go that route, it's good to make sure you're talking with mentors to see how you can navigate within your organization without that degree. Because it may be possible that you can have a successful career, but you can't have certain positions. So you want to make sure that you, or certain roles, make sure you understand that. Yeah, exactly. It's important to have a good dialogue with your mentors, you know, try to seek out mentors and within internally and externally from the organization. And then there's a whole new aspect of whether or not to do a PhD, right? Which is a completely different investment than a master's and what kind of doors that opens, if any, right? So there's lots of considerations there. But yeah, like, you know, the simple advice of like, where do you want to be? What does everyone else have? And if, you know, there's a trend there, then, you know, don't assume you can be the outlier because you might not be. It is a possibility, but it's tough. Yeah. All right, great. Now we think about geotechnical engineering as a field. I think that most would agree that it's still rapidly evolving. There's a lot of changes that are happening. And in order to stay up to date with the latest trends and technologies, you know, what type of resources or strategies are you using or that you would encourage others to use to stay informed and also to improve their skills? What are some things that come to mind for you? And we'll make sure we'll put those in the show notes as well. Sure, sure. I mean, this is tough and it's something that I'm trying to get better at. But, you know, some like example resources and I'm trying to keep this general because there's, you know, regional, different offerings regionally and different organizations. So you can, you know, attend short courses. You can attend external technical presentations. I know stuff like the ASE or CGS might hold. You should be attending, you know, internal lunch and learns and I get places people, suppliers come in and gives you a lunch and learns on their, you know, products, geosynthetics, instrumentation, that sort of thing. There's a lot you can gain out of that. There's always reading, right? Like papers, codes, software manuals. There's a great sources of information that people put real good effort in that's a wealth of knowledge there. There's case histories, you know, that the ones that are included in magazines like, you know, the Canadian Geotechnique or the ASE's Geostrata, things like that. That can give you some ideas there too. And then you can listen to podcasts like these, right? And like little external things, media that are easier to digest, YouTube videos and podcasts, things like that where you can gain a lot. Like you don't have to do everything because everything all the time because that's really overwhelming and you can't possibly consume all that information. But there's, these are the sorts of things you should be looking into. And I guess finally have conversations, right? Have conversations with your colleagues, have those, I know COVID made it very difficult, especially if you're fully remote, but those water cooler chats that used to happen, right? And coffee breaks and stuff like that where you can discuss projects with colleagues who might not be immediately in the project team that can give you some inspiration on how to try a new approach or something like that, right? There's a lot of information out there. You just need to keep your eyes and ears open. Oh, great, great. It's cool that the podcast made the list of places to check in. So thanks for that plug. Yeah, I'm a regular listener. Awesome, awesome. Thank you for that. So let's see. So as a mentor and a role model to young geotechnical engineers, what's the final piece of advice you wanna leave for our listeners to help them to thrive and also to succeed in their careers in this dynamic industry? And then we'll take our break after this. Sounds good. So I think anyone who's in geotechnical engineering can look forward to a challenging but very rewarding career. I think to thrive in this industry, we all need to be A, taking care of ourselves because that's paramount. B, genuinely enjoying the profession because you can't do a good job if you don't like it. And C, being actively involved in the geotechnical community. And there's many ways to do this, right? It's just find what works for you. So that's my final few cents on how to thrive and succeed. All right. Thank you so much. So we're gonna come back in just a minute. Close this one out with Intisar and our career factor of safety end segment. Stick around. All right. Welcome back. It's time for our career factor of safety end segment. In geotechnical engineering, just like many disciplines of engineering, it's important to incorporate a factor of safety into your design. But what about incorporating a factor of safety into your career? Today, of course, we're speaking with Intisar Geotechnical Engineer at Thurber Engineering Limited. So Intisar, you've had a very successful career. I know you're on the front end of it, but you're in a successful career so far. And when you look back at your career, what's something you've implemented in your career to give yourself a factor of safety in your career? I have to think very hard about this one. I mean, what has helped me throughout my career is having a strong network, right? I've always tried to build and maintain professional rapport with my peers. When I come across challenging situations, you know, be it a technical task, a difficult project, or even job searching, I can be assured that I can make an informed decision as I have my network to seek mentorship from. So I think, you know, continually invest in your network until you try to grow it. You don't need to make it, you know, feel robotic or transactional. Just do it organically like you're making a friend because that's how I approach it. So I think, yeah, that's been a huge help for my career. And yeah, I think most people in general are happy to help and network and mentor. All right, great. Well, Intustar, thank you so much for coming on and sharing all the great insights with us. You shared some great information that I know is going to be helpful to those who are listening and watching. How can listeners find you? Are you on social media? Do you have an email you want to share? We'll make sure we get that in the show notes. Sure, I think the easiest way is to reach out via LinkedIn and it's just under Intustar Farhan Ahmed. I don't think there's a ton of those folks, but yeah, you can find me on there. All right, great. Thank you so much. This is a lot of fun. Absolutely. Thanks, Jared. I hope you enjoyed the episode today. We would love to hear your feedback, comments, and or questions. Please feel free to go to geotechnicalengineeringpodcast.com where you'll find our summary of the key points discussed in today's episode, that being episode 84, as well as links to any of the resources, websites, or books mentioned during this episode. Until next time, we wish you the very best in all of your geotechnical engineering endeavors. Peace.