The elopement photography specialists - with Stephanie Ip in LA

How would you like to get paid for doing what you love? And what you love is taking photos. Well, joining me is Stephanie IP, a Los Angeles-based portrait photographer who is taking amazing photos and getting paid for it with a very successful business alongside her husband Brian. So, Stephanie and Brian, welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. So, you are family photographers. You do family, you do wedding, uh you do even more than that and you have built a very successful business in the Los Angeles area. So you were obviously not born as a natural photographer. Can you just tell me a little bit about the start? Like how did you get into the professional side of photography? My dad was the one who bought me my first film camera. It was just kind of like a whatever gift for birthday and that's how I started taking photos but every single time. So over time I just find it very fascinating and my dad would always you know do video and camcorder type of photography and videography when we were growing up. So, I would just pose for him for stuff, but it's not something that I naturally was drawn into until he bought me my first DSLR. So, I would take that around and went to college in New York. Um and then I would use that camera to take just inspiration photos is that's part of my assignments would be I had a fashion design background and that's how I started using cameras and start to understand positive and negative space is that art major background that you have to take classes you go around the city take photos and one thing led to another. I then started my own business and um the business is a product business not a service business. So when you do product business you have to take nice product photos. So that's how I begin to learn more about like how to take good product photos. That's how I started and then realized my old DSLR that my dad originally got me was very blurry and I for the longest time I don't know what's going on. is like, is it my eyes that are blurry or is it the camera? Cuz I've never had like a really professional one. I have heard of mirrorless, you know, those $5,000 ones. And I'll never be able to own one, you know, at that time of my age. So, I just was once I got to the business point, I'm like, I need to improve my photography skills in order to sell more products. And that was during co. So, I bought my first mirrorless camera. That was um the A7C of Sony. And then I was telling Brian, you know, like it's co we can't go to art shows cuz that's what the product would have to sell is the art show. Let's see what we get people to actually hire us to pay us to do actual photography. So, I just went online. Okay, who is going to give me ad dollar money? And that was Yelp. that Yelp gave me at dollar money. So, I just, okay, I have nothing to lose. I'm not paying them to do anything. They're paying me $100, put some ads out. So, one thing led to another. Our first job was actually a surprise proposal photography shoot. And I've never done a proposal photographer uh photography job. So, that led into like u mastering the skills very quickly with it was like within a week I have to shoot that proposal. So, I remember I was just binge watching all the YouTube surprise proposal um videos that I can find at that time. There weren't that many and um and the shoot came out really good. Uh we got our first review. So, everything was so fresh and so exciting. And so, that was kind of like a pushing force for me to like, oh, let's see what's the next one going to be. And you know 5 years from then has it been 5 years? 4 years. Four or five. Yeah. Time is kind of funny. Yeah. And now we're doing it um you know bigger scale like you were mentioning like weddings and but we are actually more specialized in surprise proposal and then people start to find us through like engagement wedding and then family kind of like a life journey from the point where we started of the love story and then into their family love story. That's that's awesome. So, you're really you become part of that couple's story together. And so, going back to that very first photo shoot, can you remember how much did you charge for that very first one and how much do you charge now? I don't remember exactly, but it's probably $200 and then now we are charging starting rate is $750 just for photos. Awesome. So when you were first starting out, did you ever feel kind of like that impostor syndrome where you are expected to be an expert, but yet you didn't feel that you were in fact an expert at that time? Oh yeah, totally. I I would often be referred as the photographer at the beginning. I'm like, Ryan, we're not photographer. We're just normal people picking up a camera, learning the skills, enjoying what we love doing. just I think the pure joy of capturing people's love and seeing how excited they're to be photographers of our or be proposed to and then seeing the photos. I think those are the interaction that we felt the most rewarding as a photographer. So at the beginning we didn't see oursel as photographers. were just there using a professional camera and then understanding how to use the camera and also obviously how to direct people, position them to make them feel comfortable. Um, so this is the type of photo that you see here and uh this is a couple that is on your Instagram page. They're at the Manhattan Beach Pier just outside of Los Angeles. Really a a beautiful series of photos that you've created here. There's a video, couple of videos. And I didn't want it to go this fast, but um here we are. And so we've got a sun behind them. And uh I guess I'm mixing up some of the Oh, here's the one that I want to click. There we go. And there they are together. So tell me about this type of a photo shoot. What do you typically do in this type of shoot? This particular shoot was taken place a week before their wedding. They just figure they need some sort of engagement photos for display. And I remember it was short notice, but we made it work. Just get them on the call first, try to understand what they're looking to achieve for these photos, cuz not every couple coming for engagement photos have the same purpose. And so after that, we discussed, you know, what location that might be the best for their vibe and then also what kind of outfit that will look great for that background. So we built that kind of shoot. um before we actually shooting over Zoom, be able to see examples and then talk about um outfits cuz everyone's outfits will look different when it pairs with their skin tone and hair color and their personality. So, you know, if they like to wear black, but I don't suggest wearing black on a shoot, then what can they wear? You know, kind of trying to figure out what color would look best for them. So those are usually the beginning of our consultation and when we actually start shooting, we actually meet to do the shoot. We are already aware of what to expect. Um all they have to do is relax, have fun. We try to do it more of a candid style, so not very pose. You may see a few pose here and there, but I just tell them to look at each other, kiss, maybe talk about something funny over her years, give her a little spin, and then pause right there. We'll take that one shot. Looks great cuz the light was just coming through. So Brian, he will usually come in and, you know, do reflection when there's lighting. And what else do you usually do? I mean, I guess one of the things from the perspective of the assistant, Stephanie's always looking to find, you know, the best framing, the best angle for the lighting, and I'm also looking for lighting angles as well. But my secondary role is to help keep the couple engaged. We have all different kinds of couples. Some are a little bit nervous to be there. Others are more they're just like so hyped up um that they don't need a lot of proddding. But it's just kind of good to have, you know, someone to just kind of harness that energy and then kind of put it into like Stephanie said the poses and just kind of like setting up those candid moments. Yeah. So with this shot in particular, do you recall were you lighting them? Did you use a reflector? How did you light the faces of these subjects? Well, it's kind of interesting for for this kind of um perspective because because we have those pillars. Um it's it is kind of crucial where I stand. So, obviously you see the glow in the back, but I try to find just a spot between the pillars to grab the light. So, I'm kind of coming from the opposite side um to get a subtle reflection back at their faces. Okay. So, you're using a handheld reflector just reflecting back the sunshine back into their faces. And is that for all of the shots? Like even uh this one here? For this one, I don't think I would have been able to get much um for this wipe. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, you probably only bounce light but not direct light. Just kind of, you know, bounce white light. Yeah. So, a lot of times we it's kind of a judgment call, you know, kind of by default would be kind of like the silver bounce. It's a little bit harsher, but it's better when there isn't as much light to to grab. Um, but then if it's more kind of like an intimate and close-up shot like that, I could just use more of like the white diffuse bounce and then so that would Yeah, that would get kind of more of that effect that we're looking for there. Right. Makes sense. So getting back just to the very beginning of the business just to try and close off this conversation on that aspect of the business. What was the one big thing that you had to overcome in order to get your business to where it is now? I think one thing kind of going back to the initial imposttor syndrome. I think what I've noticed was that there was a lot of nervousness going into every single shoot just saying, you know, are we ready for this? Um, you know, you have the gear, you have the right mindset, but you want to make sure that you're you're presenting yourself right and you know what to do in the moment. But the the I think the thing to overcome is to really um you know being uh be able to push through those feelings and also just the things that that Stephanie has been nervous about, you know, or actually more so early on are the things that you say you kind of push into those headon and say, "Okay, why why does this make me nervous?" Um, one of the things that I learned at my 9-to-five job is that if you're prepared for something like public speaking, then you know it's going to go fine. So, anything that you're nervous about, just kind of tackle those head on. Like whether it's the skills, whether it's the customer relations, you know, break it down and handle those individually. Oh, and also I wanted to add, I don't know, I don't remember where I watch or hear this before, but someone said that if you're nervous going into a shoot and not because of your uh not because you're you feel unprepared with your skill set, but more of um you don't know how how the family or how the couple or how you know your subject is going to perceive you as a photographer or they have an impression of how you should but you're not giving what they want. Then that is also a way to your nervousness is a way to remind yourself that you actually really care about how you're presenting yourself going before going into the shoot. So that allow us to kind of check ourselves before we say anything or make sure we have everything in line. um like packing the gear or putting the gear on, think through everything before we actually go meet the client. So, I think nervousness sometimes is a good thing. That's what I'm trying to say. I absolutely agree. It it's sort of a motivator to to make sure that you are preparing yourself and uh I I see it as a healthy thing. Um so tell me what your business has now evolved into today from those early days. What is the state of your business now? And has your business been a life-changing thing for you both? Our business right now is, I would say, doing pretty good. Um, you know, it really gets us out there. We're actually both introverts. It really has, you know, been an excuse to really go out there to all different kinds of locations. you know, we go to beaches, we go to parks, we go to, you know, event centers. You know, that's kind of gotten us a little bit out of our shells a little bit more than it would have been otherwise. Um, and yeah, so that's kind of been the life-changing thing. As Stephanie said, the free time that we lose gets turned into these, you know, incredible unforeseen experiences. So, has it I know that you work hard. You both really work hard to keep this business going and it takes up your weekend time and your evening time, but has it given you a sense of freedom to be self-employed in your own photography business? Yeah, totally. I was working a full-time job up to, let's see, five 2019. 2019. I had like a corporate job right before the pandemic got laid off. I remember very clearly that on the day I got laid off, I was so happy. All of her colleagues were and and I don't know if they're going to see this. Yeah. All of her colleagues were justifiably upset and she was like, "This is an opportunity." And I think that was in the back of your mind the whole time cuz I was constantly thinking like cuz I the job was about an hour and a half oneway drive to the office and I had a job before this one where I was trying to negotiate working from home like a hybrid. This is all before the pandemic. I was trying to pitch for working hybrid because I can't just sit in the car cuz at that time I was working as a graphic designer. I can't sit in the car cuz in LA you drive everywhere. You can't really take public transportation because then it will take half a day just to get to one place. So I had to take 1 hour on the freeway. I remember always there's some sort of a traffic accident every single day and then I would sit in the car and contemplating my life like why am I doing this to myself? And then when I get to the office I'll be sitting down for another eight hours because it's a graphic design job. So at some point I'm thinking how do I get out of this mode is you know how can I actually start something? So having been able to think every single night on my way to work or on my way back podcast is actually a very good way to travel with like you listen to all these different types of podcasts. I learn businesses through podcast that way too and I just implement them after work. I get like a couple hours really tired, but then that little bit of time and consistency of wanting to do something for yourself to get out of this I get I caught a jail cuz like you're always like driving you can't get out of your car and then so when I was able to fully go full-time and actually making a good solid income, I was really happy. So yeah, so that's I hope that answers the question. Yeah, absolutely. What about your clients? So, you get really involved for a short period of time in the lives of your clients. You're going to their homes or you're meeting them at uh out in the field somewhere and you're sharing intimate moments with them. What kind of feedback do they give you when they finally see those photos that you've taken from their engagement or from the family get together or the baby photos or the wedding photos? What do these photos mean for your clients? A lot of the feedback that we typically would get is especially for family photo shoots when they have little kids um that are the oldest maybe up to six or seven, the youngest maybe like one or two toddlers running around. Parents are always very concerned that the kids won't stay still in the photo shoot and listen to us. But we actually love the kids running around because that's when we get to capture all the most authentic authentic shots of those kids having a good time. It is when the parents are restricting them and saying you must do this, you must stand here. Listen, that's when the kids will start to get cranky and angry and that's not what I want in my camera. So I would tell the parents, "Oh, why don't we just start walking a little bit?" So then the parents will then be like okay in in my mind I don't know how this will turn out but I trust the photographer is doing great job my kids are having a good time and then when they actually finally see the photos they will be in sometimes they are in awe like oh you can actually manage to capture that I'm really surprised you were able to so a lot of times when we work with families like that um that's the kind of feedback we would get but we would also who have families that were photographed. We haven't been around too long, but we have already have experience where like some family members like the mom had cancer and the dad wanted to do like a last family photo shoot with her while they still can. And so that broke my heart even though I don't have a strong relationship with the family to begin with. But being able to photograph those live moments for families are very meaningful to us. Yeah, absolutely. I it even kind of gets me choked up just even thinking about that scenario. But let's talk about something happy like camera settings. Um tell me about camera settings. When you're in the outdoors, let's say you're you're uh shooting with natural light. What kind of camera settings do you use? Are you shooting in manual mode? Are you in aperture priority? What do you use? Manual, for sure. I remember when I first picked up those lessons on how to operate your camera is to always shoot manual. And that's how I always been shooting manual. And what about lenses? What's kind of your go-to lens if you're doing an outdoor photo shoot? We have 85 mm 1.8 8 f1.8 by Sony and that was actually my first lens that I fell in love with. And the second one that we have is a wider um I would say a wider lens like um 35 mm f1.8 also by Sony. Not the G lens. We weren't able to afford that. So we had the most basic one and they had great reviews. I still use them today. And then for babies, we like to take little features of their facial features, um, mouth, eyes, ears. We like to use 90 mm for that one. Um, that's a micro lens. So, we also use that lens for detail shots like ring shots. Um, anything that pertains needing to go in and capture those details, we usually use that one. And we recently picked up a new one. Um, it's a 24 to 50 mm, I believe, which is a G G lens. I think there's a G lens. Yeah. So that's uh more of a video slash camera um for Brian because when we do BTS behind the scenes video for our um our Instagram or whatever social media we want to have content with that lens allows you to capture a lot of different various uh focal lengths. Yeah, being at 24 to 50, it's not super, you know, uh it's not super uh zoomed in, but um I can kind of go in, come out as long as I can get close enough. It gives me the flexibility to take a few different kinds of shots. Yeah. So, is it really nice to have Brian with you, Stephanie, on a shoot so that he can be shooting video of those behind the scenes? Then do you only use that for your own Instagram or does the client get that video? We both kind of. So we actually didn't start doing proposal videos until last year cuz we weren't sure if I can I edit all the videos myself and I wasn't sure if I can actually deliver. So, I would practice first with Brian and we would just give it out for free um to our surprise, especially surprise proposal clients because they always ask for, "Oh, did you capture that initial segment where he goes down on one knee but in motion?" Like pictures are great, but like nothing is better than the video, I guess. And so, we started giving them out just for free just to see how people love it. And then if they keep coming back and saying, "Oh, look what you did here and what you did over there. Can I have that same thing to how much would that be? At first I only charge $100 US if you're watching in the US. Um, so not a lot of money, but it does take me about 8 to 10 hours just to do one video at that time. So now we do charge a little bit more and I have shortened my editing time too. So everything kind of balanced out because I learn over time. It's nice to have Brian to um helps. So now that we are charging the the video for money, we need to make sure the video is actually capturing and not shaky. So I always need someone to help me set up the tripod. And then we also edit the mic feature to capture their audio. And that's what makes that whole video look and uh sound so much different. So, I always appreciate having Brian next to me, of course, but sometimes if our shoots happens during the week, which he goes to work during the week, it's a full-time job, then I have to manage everything. And all I have to do is, you know, get there an extra hour early and, you know, pack everything extra tight so I can hold it in two bags or two hands. But it's always great to have Brian to do some BTS, especially um right now. I think this year or starting last year, we wanted to put oursel a little bit more out there and just talk about how our journey had come along. And I know a lot of photographers out there are looking to start and don't know where to start. And that's how I was about 5 years ago. And I think these days there are so much content online and they can be good content, they can also be bad content. Um, but we just genuinely want people who are interested in picking up a camera and start something to create their own freedom um to learn from our experience. Um, so you mentioned video as being a potential upsell and I note that on your website you kind of have three main packages, a legacy, the embrace and the cherish starting at 400 going up to starting at 1,200. But tell me a little bit about what you do for upsells to increase the average order value. You've got video as one thing that you offer for an upsell. What else do you offer to to increase the average order? We do sell additional photos. So each package do come with a set amount. So people if they want more photos then they would pay additional price for buying the additional photos. We also print our own photos like um nothing canvas related just photo paper related. We'll print those orders. Um, we also do photo books that we send it out and then we kind of help them design and then inspect everything before we actually ship it to our clients. Um, and then some canvases, any sort of enlargement prints people typically would want, we will be able to help them through the online gallery. So, those are our upsells and upgrades. sometimes could be if it's a family photo shoot, it's usually just just u enlargements and additional downloads. That's what families would really appreciate. And with uh digital files, so everyone gets digital files, I'm assuming. And do you have kind of a goto uh retouching regime? Like kind of some retouching adjustments that you do on every photo? What what type of a look are you going for with your retouching? Yeah, retouching upon Lightroom, more technical things. I do have a preset that I typically go towards when it comes to outdoor photography. Um, mini sessions. Mini sessions are something that you offer on your website and uh I'm wondering how popular are they? Uh are you able to almost fill out a day with people who are booking mini sessions? Is it something that you actively are promoting for your photography business? Mini sessions happen twice a year for us. So that's usually spring, Mother's Day, and then holidays. For holiday, mini sessions, we always get booked out always. Um, for sure. But for spring and Mother's Day are a little bit slower in comparison to holidays. So, if you when you say in on holidays they're you're getting booked out like how many shoots would you have on a on a busy mini session day? Like eight. Eight or nine? Yeah. Yeah. Because we don't want to spend from like high noon all the way up to golden hour cuz the lighting doesn't look good. So, we can only really do three to four per hour and then we would start 2 hours before sunset if the location allows the lighting to come through like nicely. So that would be like four per hour, 15 each back to back. So I don't really have time to talk to my families. And that's good when Brian is here cuz then you can talk to the families. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of the role of uh receptionist and uh and also you know light guy and uh yeah just kind of running around making sure all the communication is good, making people go to the right place. So, what about your advertising, if I can call it that? Do you use any paid advertising? And how do you actually get your customers? So, we do run ads on Yelp with them and also um I run Google ads for only certain categories cuz we have so many categories. We want to only focus on certain categories for those ads. But when it comes to like keywords for our SEO on our website, we do try to target all the categories. We just don't run ads for all of them. So your ads have kind of proven to be profitable for you. So it's it's worth it to invest the money in Google Ads, for example, and you will find local customers through those Google ads. I would say Google Ads has been like the number one changer for the business. Um even though people don't book through the Google ads they I think the analytics kind of works in the background where when people click it means this website is has a high authority ranking for certain keywords and so other keywords will start to work out as well. So having Google ads will help in other areas for sure. And what kind of keywords do you look for? or is it always kind of the geographical location where your customers live as being the big keyword and family photography, outdoor photography, that type of thing? The keywords we typically focus on are uh location specifics. So for us, we're based in Los Angeles County, but there's the neighboring Orange County that there are cities that typically people would search like photographer in such and such cities. So we would target those cities as part of the search keywords. And also um when it comes to keywords, you don't want to pass a wide net to people that you don't want to attract. So, if you don't want to work with or you if you don't want people to keep calling you and keep ghosting you because they can't afford you after they hear about your price and also you probably don't want to take too many calls of those, then you probably want to do keywords that are more specific to a certain demographic or a certain um area that can potentially be able to afford you. I would say those are more affluent cities. So, I would usually target that way. What would your advice be to someone who is thinking about starting up their own family photography business from scratch? What would you say to that person? They want to go for it, but they're just not sure if they can actually make some extra income from that business. I would just say do it if you want to do it. Um, just do it. Don't think about the money. think money will eventually come. But if you're tight with money and you think you must make money through the photography because you feel like, oh, you have the best gear um and you deserve to charge more, but then your results are not delivering, you know, it's not equal balance to what your quality versus your profession your your professional um skill set is, right? So, I would just not charge as much as when you're first starting out and also try to learn from your mistakes. And then, you know, you some people they pick up a part-time job uh while they are trying to learn the business side of how to actually run a photography business and do a lot of self teaching. Um if yeah I don't I don't I mean I think there I think there's a lot of people who are who are willing to give people just starting out a chance. I'm just thinking about your our you know our first client like you mentioned earlier the first the first shoot which was the first um uh proposal shoot right? It's like you're brutally honest. is like telling them never done this before but you know this is you know let's we can work together figure out what the approach is going to be and then just we'll do our best see how things go and uh you know that one went well you're nervous as I'll get out but you know that one that went really well so yeah you know people if you're honest with them you know people would be willing to give you a shot and you know that first shot could be your breakout or the next one or the next one, right? But but just being honest, people are willing to to work with you on that. And then do you need to have a little bit of that portfolio to kind of prove to a future paying client that you have what it takes to give them a product that they're going to find uh worthy of paying money for? Yeah. Having a portfolio to be constantly updating what you have been doing will be a great way to attract the next uh clients that you want to attract. And just to kind of give some background how I started was I was just taking I can't do product photos cuz I didn't want to focus on products. I wanted to do portraits for on humans. So I just shoot my uh family. So I would just, you know, have family gatherings. We would I would take I know my brother had like a I think Chris, my nephew, was four, four years old or two years old running around super happy, giggly, best time to take photos. And so that's how I started. I used their photos as my portfolio. I asked them. You obviously need to ask people if they're allowing you to do that. And then once you actually have clients because of those photos, then you can use clients photos instead of cuz you're going to continue to evolve your skills and then continue to upgrade, update, and then eventually you'll be able to get to where you want to. I'm sure a lot of photographers don't feel that way. Even the ones that are up top, they feel like they're ultra successful or popular, they still feel like, oh, I can possib possibly try this other skills next time when I have uh similar kind of photo uh photography clients and then see if we can push our envelope even further. So, if we have that heart of wanting to learn and continue to improve, we'll get there eventually. Yeah. And a lot of people uh when they're starting out, they are intimidated by all the buttons on a camera. They're intimidated by camera settings and they feel that they aren't a technical enough person to be able to learn how to actually take technically correct photos. So, what would be your advice to that type of person? They want to take portrait photos, but they're afraid of the camera. Just practice. Watch a lot of YouTube videos. it it can be really overwhelming to learn it all at once. So, I would say that try to learn, you know, just try to keep the scope really narrow at first. Try to learn one feature. Kind of get that feature down until it's second nature. It's a reflex. It's like, oh, ISO, when do I turn my ISO up? When do I turn it down? And don't worry too much about the other features just yet. Make sure it's focused, right? Maybe that should be the first feature, but after that, just kind of take it, you know, one step at a time. Keep it bite-sized. Don't try to learn them all at once. Sound advice. Second to last question. Do you ever use flash for your outdoor photography when you're out in the field? Uh we do use some flash but we are not a off camera flash focus type of photographer like you know there are a lot of them where they pop three lights in front of you one behind you two in front one key one hair whatever I personally cannot do it because I only is me and then it was only him so and I didn't want at that at the time when we were first starting ing outs, we we are more drawn to the natural light. So when it comes to flash, it's only when we felt there's a need in that one space, it's so shaded, but it looks so great cuz the backdrop is perfect. All we have to do is pop a light. So that's when we'll use flashlight, right? Okay. So last question. What would your advice be to, let's just say that there's a young couple, they've just had a baby, and mom wants to hire you to take baby photos, but dad is saying, "Oh, I just don't want to spend the money." What would be your advice to dad while he's in this newborn phase, and uh this is only going to happen once with this baby? That happens a lot actually. I think a lot of times the moms are making the decisions for these type of milestones imagery. I think it will be great to if I am not trying to sell them, I would give you two scenarios. If I'm not trying to sell them as a photographer, I would put out content first and teach people how to take those type of photos. And so mom can do those photos herself when she just deliver and she wants those nice photos. But if moms and parents don't want to take their own photos and dad don't want to spend the money then in in in that sense as someone who comes to me for a service like mom is like calling me up and say hey I want beautiful newborn photos but my husband don't want to spend this much. So then I will try to understand what is too much to them means and see what we can offer based on their criteria and limitation. If it's not a good fit then I would try to recommend someone else that they can go to and that way maybe that the dad will be more acceptable with the price tag. But if price is an issue then it's always just trying to recommend mom oh you can take your own photos too. It doesn't has to be on a professional camera. You can use your iPhone and here's my content. You can learn from my content and try to, you know, create rapport that way. And hopefully eventually when dad comes around feeling like, oh, of course, we do need a professional photographer cuz you know what you did during our newborn phase, now we must have a real one next time when they have a newborn. So you know just try to create um uh possibilities for people felt like oh you must pay this much but in reality I don't think you need to pay a lot of money for a professional photographer. I think when you pay is a fair exchange of skills and experience and time and so that's money is just a way to you know do that u exchange of work that we do. Okay. Well, on that one, we'll leave it. So, if you are looking for family photos and you're in the LA County or the Orange County area of Los Angeles, then you need to visit photography.stephfanieip.com to get some beautiful family photos. So, thank you so much, Stephanie and Brian, for being on the show. Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Tim.