Selena Gomez: ‘Rare,’ Her Love Life, and Taking Creative Control | Apple Music

Man, if we can't, like, keep the fake intro, then I have to do the professional intro. Well, you can. Thank you for joining us. We're in a nondescript coffee shop here in Santa Monica to discuss what is considered now a modern timeless pop classic. Selena Gomez, over the course of 10 years, has been through many challenges and also many triumphs. She finds herself today sitting here with a brand new album called Rare, and we're here to discuss it. Selena, hello. Hello. That was really impressive. See, I can do it. I just don't want to. Happy new year. Happy new decade. Happy 2020. How did you feel in the context of knowing that you were starting 2020 really hitting the ground running super fast? Like, the album's out. I know. And it's barely gotten started, and so I suppose in a weird way, that means that you end the year with a set of really mixed emotions. Like, can you relax knowing that's coming? I can. I mean, this is four years of my life, and I think I'm completely okay with releasing it. There had always been something that was preventing me or scaring me from doing it, and I'm so glad that I followed that gut instinct, because it's so crazy that every single moment counts. Down to literally, Lose You To Love Me and Look At Her Now is out, but we were still, like, the last day writing music that the song I personally think is going to be one of our biggest as well. It's just that's the kind of magic that happens, and I know that happens with other artists, but the people I'm surrounded by, it just happens, and I'm so grateful. Plus, the song's pretty awesome, so I'm pretty proud. And it seems to me like good people were the difference this time. No disrespect to who you worked with before, but it feels like you really chose your collaborators very deliberately on this album. Yeah. Well, I think my role— Thank you. I think my role, you know, has been, I don't want to work with anyone who doesn't want to work with me. I think I just found my group, and I think I'm getting better and better, but I only know that that means it's because of the people I'm surrounded by. That inspired me. That challenged me. And I think the past few years, or, hell, decade, if you want, I think I was really kind of hurting, and I think that prevented me from doing a lot more creatively, or even content-wise of what I wanted to say. I'm interested, and I was in the studio last night, I was like, I actually just kind of want to keep going, which I never do. Now I get to have more say, too, when it comes to even putting the music together. I was always so scared to speak up with producers. Now I know most of them so well that I just give them sh—, and I'm always just like, I've never done that really before, where I'd have a conversation, and it was an important experience for me. Were there times when you were making the record during that four years when you were, like you say, in pain, where you wondered whether or not you would ever get another album or body of work out, or that it would take even longer than it has, that you wanted to throw in the towel and maybe just walk away from that process? Maybe, but I was under a contract. So, maybe. But when I would have those moments, it never lasted. It was almost like I'd have the low moment and then be like, no, f— it. I got to keep going. I've got to, now I feel like I need to say something. And then there's a period where I don't have anything to say, and it just would pick up quickly when I needed it to happen. Who were some of the people that you, aside from your collaborators, that the small group of people that you kind of, I suppose, went to to say, is this good? Am I on the right path? Am I making sense? Am I speaking my truth? Is it good enough? I didn't. Wow. I didn't have anyone listen. It needed to be something that I liked. For you to take on that challenge to a degree yourself whilst going through this challenging time, that can be ultimately fulfilling. But at the time, I'm sure there were lonely moments, where you, like you say, that makes the doubt even more kind of prevalent, doesn't it? When you're kind of on your own, trying to work out, navigate your way through this aesthetic to find some clarity and vision. I mean, it's safe to say that I was sad. It's like, whatever. But I think to me, it's such a distant thought. I'm not in that place anymore. And I think maybe before I used to lie and say that so that people would get it, but I kind of show everything that I'm feeling in my face. Yeah. But it's not even, like I can't even go there anymore if I tried. It just doesn't seem like it's a part of me anymore. Any of those ties, soul ties, or mental stuff, everything going on, all of it's under control. And this is where I'm going. And I see it very clearly. So there's a lot of liberation on this record. Yep. And even the moments when you're diving into subject matter to resolve it for yourself, it feels like you're doing so with the purpose of trying to get to a place, a liberated place. And so I wonder, at the end of the process, what did you let go of? What did you no longer need in your life once you'd kind of been through this process of writing this album and getting out the other side? Well, I definitely had to get probably the most toxic thing out of my life first. Then it started becoming being a bit more vocal. I am naturally a people pleaser. So it's just more kind of saying, no, this isn't what I'm going to do. I started noticing, you know, people were putting, that were like setting up sessions. It seemed like favors or something. It just, it kind of got confusing for me. And I think that's why I tend to, one of the many reasons why I tend to just always go with Ian, Julia and Justin. Trust. Loyalty, trust, understanding. Don't give a shit about the industry and believe in the art and believe in music and believe in what I'm saying. I have the greatest label. I'm so grateful for John and all of that. That's not really what I'm describing. I guess it's just, it is weird. And especially being in the position that I'm in as a pop artist, it is harder when it's like, oh, we're having all these things because we think you should sound like this. I learned a lot this past year about how to navigate that. So when you write a lyric like, people go from people you know to people you don't. Surely that's like a great moment for you. A moment where you recognize that's just a part of humanity. That one's funny because it was actually, my friend Liz, it was her friend that had the hook. And so it was actually random because it came out of nowhere. God, take it. Which was really fun. Everyone goes through it, you know? We go through seasons. People are meant to be in your life for some and others they're not. I think if you accept that though, that's an ultimately positive thing, isn't it? When you realize that if you stop holding on so tight. Yeah, I hated change. I mean, I kind of still do. But every time I'm on the other side, I'm like, ah, I get it. Thank you for that one. Needed that. What did you get? Like, what do you get from when you come out of this? Like, what do you recognize? What do you realize? What do you learn from it? Okay, a good example is, I would say it's about eight, 10 years. It was really painful. And I think when Lose You To Love Me came out and the reaction it got, I definitely knew it was a special song. I didn't know that it was going to become what it was. It was your first number one. People responded to it in such a huge way. I think when that happened, I had a moment where I said, I completely get it. The agony, the confusion, the self-doubt, all of that wrapped up into that song. That was a moment where I got it. I got, I needed that. I went through that for something like this, for other people. And that was a really special moment. I can't think of anyone who's lived the kind of life you've lived and you're still only 27 years old. To be launching a music career at 17 with what you'd already done and then to go through the process of growth and identifying and understanding who you are, all in the space of the public eye. And you worked the whole time. How hard was it to find a balance? Was that one of the biggest challenges, finding the balance between work and you? Because you didn't stop working. Even when you were getting sick, you still worked. Yeah. I think I needed to because it kept me going. So sometimes I pushed myself too far. When I did have to take moments and step back, I didn't find that it was embarrassing or that I was letting myself down or letting fans down. It meant that I needed to make sure. I didn't want to, basically, I didn't want to get to a certain age where it was almost too late that I didn't figure this stuff out. And I had been going through all of these different emotions, not specifically within relationships. It's personal. It's bigger than that. It's people at home. There was a lot there. And I'm grateful because it has brought me through all of it. But I have this relationship with my job and my work that keeps me going. I know it's kind of stupid, but I always say to my fans that they have saved me from a lot of situations. You're built up just for them to knock you down. It keeps going. It's going to keep happening. But what stayed consistent in my life was that. And because of social media, which I'm able to have more of an intimate relationship with them. And that's, you know, I draw my boundaries to a specific point, but it's literally people that I've known for years. And that meant so much to me. So... Do you sometimes go and read things and dial into the timeline when no one knows just to kind of see what people... You don't do that? No. I didn't have social media for two years. You mentioned that you hadn't been on social media at the start of the last conversation we had. And I kind of wished I'd sort of dived in a little bit more into that because I just out of a pure personal level want to know what that's like. Like what it's like when you don't look at it because I still find myself, my screen time still creeps up. I still find myself falling into that habit. I don't know. You just got to do it. I was driving myself crazy. First off, there was a million things that I didn't want to see. Yeah. And I would see them over and over and over again. Yeah. Then I'm comparing. Then I'm looking at these people and I'm like, how did they... It's all the things that people say, right? It's nothing new. It's that you usually sometimes feel like... You have FOMO. Everyone's life looks amazing. And that happens to me too. I'm like, well, what am I not... Like I'm missing the plot here, right? Something's... How come it's so fun for everyone else? Then it just started getting dark. Like there were accounts that were dissecting me down to my body, to my face, my features, choices I've made, telling stories. And it drove me crazy because I honestly just wanted to be like, none of you are... Qualified or... None of you even know what you're talking about. And it just destroyed me. So I stopped and I tell every single person, everything changed, you know? And I'm also living in that time where there's a specific look that's going on within females. So that would get in my head as well. You know, yeah, I do look young. So there's nothing I can do about that. Of course I am 27, but sometimes I'm like, oh, I look like a baby, which is stupid. And I don't fit into that look, which isn't a bad thing. And it's not bad that that's what people enjoy and like. It's whatever makes you feel comfortable, of course. But like when I was out of social media, I was so much happier with just me, myself, how I looked and that helped a lot. During those reflective times, you know, when you're getting into a place and you find yourself going into a personal space where you can just have the freedom to think about what you want, not be distracted. What's the one thing, the prevailing question or prevailing anchor you kept coming back to that you knew you had to get through? I just needed to let my old self go. I was purging multiple different things, but it was specifically how I, who I was then. I would like to say that this is a fresh start. And I started with this album, but I'm going to continue to just do better and do everything I can to make it great. I mean, it's a complete human experience, this album from start to finish. It starts with a song called Rare, and which is just a, I mean, I've never heard that in a song. I love that. That actually is a word that sums up what the purpose of my position is, which is letting people know that they are completely unique within who they are. So that's the biggest thing, right? It's like they don't fit in or they feel like they need to be a certain way and who are they looking up to is very scary also to know who they're looking up to. And I think it was such a perfect description of how I think girls or women are meant to feel. You know, it's even acknowledging I don't have it all, but I do know that I'm worth something. I'm not going to settle and I'm going to wait because there is something out there that is going to give me that feeling that I deserve and that I want. You know, to get the best out of your collaborators and the best out of each experience in a recording studio, you know, you have to be as honest and open with each other as possible. How was that for you knowing that you were going to dredge up details and examples and stories and even people and even people by name and share that with people in a trusted environment? Like, I don't see how you could have made Rare without doing that, the subject matter on the record as well as you're hiding it and keeping it to yourself and letting us work it out. I figure you got to go there to be able to dress it up different. It would be, it didn't even need to, it didn't even needed to be said. And it's not because I wanted any sort of spotlight on that situation. If anything, I'm wanting the spotlight completely separated. But it wasn't in a vindictive way. It was simply like, okay, I actually have my part to say. And I waited. I wasn't just, you know, irrationally doing something to just be like coming from a place of, well, like I'm over it. That's not where I was. When it all came together, it just felt right. And I was okay with that. Other than the fact that they pay attention a bit more to my personal life than maybe others, it's going to be, you know, it's going to be gone in a day. There's going to be another story. There's going to be something else. So people will ultimately know, yes, where the inspiration came from, but then it kind of ends there. Moving away from any particular individual and just talking about the concept of having a normal human relationship. As long as you've been interested in forming any kind of bond with anyone, it's been visible for the most part. And I just, I figure that's got to distort at some point your concept of what a normal relationship is or what the possibilities are. Whether you acknowledge that at some point and decided, no, I need to get back to a place where this, recognize this is just an unusual and strange environment. Well, if I can be honest. Of course, always. It is so cliche. It's just, everyone dates everyone. It's all, it always seems to be within a little bubble and, and it's because it's safe, right? It's, you know, you're, you're wanting someone to understand what you're going through. You're, you're almost wanting a counterpart of creativity as well. And it's, you know, interesting and, and fun. But the problem with that is that you end up, whether you admit it or not, you're having a relationship for, for people and not even for yourself. There's almost this point where it's like, oh, we're, we're making it known that we're together or whatever, you know, whatever it is. It's like, you just need to decide within our world if it's for you or is it for show. Yeah, right. There's a song on the record, it comes in second, which is, Dance Again. Yeah, Dance Again, which is, you know, borderline kind of house, techno, throw yourself on the dance floor. It's so much fun. And what's cool about it is it has all the emotion that you want from a great dance record. It's not just this kind of like bolsterous, hands in the air, banger, like cliche. Right. It's like, nah, man, it draws you in and it makes you really think. You emote when you listen to it and you'll emote when you dance to it, which I think is the perfect kind of dance music. Yeah. And it kind of complimented Vulnerable because when we wrote the record, it was very, we were just talking about the next kind of chapter of when I step into meeting someone. It's like, if I were to give you all of these things, are you able to do that? I expect that. If not, I'm totally okay letting that go, but I'm still going to remain vulnerable. I'm still going to remain open and okay with my emotions, okay with being pissed or sad or upset about it. So it kind of complimented that. Dance Again is saying I'm able to get back to that. Was that, that's Justin? Come and sit down. Let's talk about this record and dive into it.