The World's Hardest Slab Climb? The Dewin Stone 9a+

You bastard! Franco Cookson has made the first ascent of the Dhowan Stone at 9a plus in North Wales, making it the hardest slab in the United Kingdom. There's a chance that it could even be the hardest slab in the entire world, but more on that later and what actually constitutes a slab. The route is located in Tuch Mawr, the big hole in the Llanberis slate quarries, and takes a direct start into the crux of James McCarthy's 9a, the Meltdown. It then proceeds to climb that crux and exit the Meltdown extension, which Franco himself made the first ascent of last year. We caught up with Franco to get his side of the story. Right, Franco, thanks for joining us and congratulations on making the first ascent of the Dhowan Stone. Before we go into detail of that route though, I feel like let's bring it back to the start of your love affair with that particular piece of rock, which was with the Meltdown, James McCarthy's 9a. And I remember when you were first starting trying this, because you actually moved to Wales almost to climb this route, did you not? Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Yeah, it's a really cool route. So it's like a line of weakness that kind of meanders around all over the place, but it kind of follows like really, like an amazing sequence, really. Because obviously the line originally was like a Johnny Dawes line. So I think Cass said this, and I'd probably say the same, that like, we maybe wouldn't have gone that way. It's not so obvious, but like once it was like a project and then a route, it actually is like really, really good. And the moves on it are amazing. So the moves are like, I always say it's like way better than any other route I've ever been on. Like quite big holds, you know, it's not like really skin dependent or like pulling really hard. But really cool moves that are really gymnastic and loads of like, you're twisting your limbs around and then having to like rotate your hips and stuff. And really like, there is the occasional move where you have to pull on your hands, but then the next move's like on your feet. So you're constantly like changing this like tempo of climbing and like. And it is definitely a slab because there's been a bit of discussion, I think, on UKC about, not specifically the meltdown, but about, you know, slabs. There's often a blurry line, isn't there, in between what's a slab, what's a wall? Yeah, yeah, which is really annoying when you're trying to climb slabs. So Tooth Marrow is 100% a slab. Like it's fully a slab. You can take your hands off pretty much every move and chalk up, which sounds weird if you're talking about like a sustained route, because it's sustained, but not like on your forearms. So you're not going to like pump out like you're climbing something in like Sri Lanka or somewhere. But it's like your toes and your toe rubber that give up. Whereas like other slabs, I went and had a look at cryptography in Switzerland. We like drove down the way back from Spain. And I got there, it was like overhanging. So that's like meant to be a slab. We've got a picture somewhere of like the rope is like free of the face. So there's like the odd bit is like a wall kind of slabby. But it's, you know, I think like the European definition of a slab. Is actually, is actually. So actually getting a slab that's really hard is really difficult. And most of them are in North Wales, which is pretty cool. Yes, because you climbed the meltdown last year. And in an interview, whilst doing my due diligence for this talk today, you'd said that after you'd done that, there was two lines that you sort of wanted to do just side by side. There was what has subsequently become the Derwin Stone. And then there was also what, well, I think you didn't dub it, but now I've called it this. It sort of feels like it's sort of become this, but the Nails Project. Sounds like something that Adam Ondra would say. Yeah, I'll have to give it some kind of trendy project title. I just quickly titled it Nails Project because it's really hard. If you don't live stream that First Descent, Franco, the people are going to be disappointed. Yeah, I'm a bit of a boomer, so I'm missing all these. We need a 3D printer or whatever as well, a 3D scanner. Yeah, but yeah, it's really hard. So that project on the right, I think actually Steve McClure looked at that first. That's kind of the story I heard years ago. So yeah, so because the meltdown goes up, left, up, right, almost down a bit, then goes back left to finish. You've got loads of opportunities for straight ups, directs, super directs, which I don't know, in the Norfolk mowers, a super direct always used to be a direct start and a direct finish. I don't know whether that's what the people call a super direct. And this Nails Project is just basically a climb. So the start of the meltdown is like a 7C. It's like a really, really good 7C up to this break. So that's kind of like, it's tricky, but it's like more traditional slate climbing, you know, like you'd get elsewhere in the quarries. Like easier than the rest of the meltdown. And then you've got the Nails Project would just go straight up into the finish of the meltdown. And it's not like that many moves because the meltdown snakes around loads. It's maybe like, it's enough moves, but it's like five hard moves. But some of the moves are like ridiculous. There's this pinch on it that's like, I never use my fingernails climbing, but it's like the thinnest hold you've ever seen. It's like, I don't know, is that actually a credit card size? You know, people always say credit cards. It's not a credit card. This is probably, it's just like the fabric of the rock. And then your hands just like touch this thing. I mean, the thing that you have always done, Franco, is put yourself out there in terms of like trying these things. You do seem to enjoy the process of it all, irrespective of how plausible it may or may not be. Because that project is still on the back burner. And the Derwin Stone, I mean, like, how did that all piece together then in comparison? Yeah, I mean, like, to be honest with the Derwin Stone, the project that became that, I was like, not actually that psyched for it. Because I did the meltdown and then I was really psyched for the direct finish, which was part of this like big multi-pitch that I wanted to do. I was kind of like overwhelmed by how many different projects there were on the wall. Because it's like, I mean, there's the big challenge of actually climbing the cliff on Tradgear, like going up maybe Quarryman pitch one and stuff, which no one's done. I wasn't that psyched initially because I kind of did the moves, I kind of did quite quickly. There's like one particularly hard move getting into the base of the meltdown and a couple of moves before, which are pretty tricky. But it kind of seemed like a formality because it was like, it's just more climbing like the meltdown. And if you do the moves, you think you're going to do it eventually. But eventually, but then I kept trying it and falling off it. And then as I was falling off it more, I got more psyched because then I was like, all right, this is actually, seems quite hard because I'm struggling to do it. It gets a bit difficult trying really hard things all the time because you do get a bit like, because now I've just got loads, I've got like eight projects all around the UK and none of them, I could quite easily not do any of them ever, which is quite like maddening, isn't it? It's nice to, I mean, like in sport climbing terms, I guess it's like clip the chains. But in, you know, trad climbing terms, it's just nice to rattle out a load of routes, just to actually do a route and get to the top, build a belay and think, I've done a route. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in a lot of senses, I'm like not really a climber because I don't actually, that's like the first route I've done in like, first harder route I've done in ages. You're a shape holder, Franco. Shape holder, yeah. I'm an app sailor. Back onto the Dohenstone. So it sounds like it's got easier start than the meltdown, but then it gets more sustained as you get into the meltdown itself, having already done some hard moves. Yeah. So it basically shares, it's the way I actually start the core even, which I don't know whether it's like cheating or not, but it's like, it's like very easy to start. It's like, I don't know, not hard. And then you do a couple of moves. So then you're on this ledge. I have this rope. I haven't actually bolted it either. There's always something quirky that you do, Franco. It's not, it's not like to be controversial. It's just, it's just like an extended draw. Cause the bolt, cause you're climbing below the meltdown groove. You can just extend the bolts, you know? So you clip this screw gate on there and then you do a couple of moves that you're like, not so hard. And then there was like one or two moves that I found pretty hard, like similar to like the middle groove of the meltdown. And then there's this one move where you have, you're like really spanned and have to like slop your feet up. And I kept falling off that. So that's quite hard. And then I ended up more tired on the foot pickup of the meltdown as well as a result of that. So I fell off that quite a bit. Can you tell us a bit about the foot pickup? Cause there's, I remember some amazing footage of, I think it was Kaff trying it on the first ascent where he'd literally, you know, he would kick his foot up and catch it and then place it on. Is that genuinely the sequence? Yeah. Yeah. So that, that's the, the jug people call it. How do you contextualize the size of this jug, Franco? How many credit, how many credit cards? No, it's a lot of credit cards. It's like a, it's a big wad of credit cards, but it'd be like, it's like most of a pad and then maybe like, but then the way you get it, you end up kind of two fingers or maybe like, almost like a mono stack or like, cause you've got to come around the side. So, but it is good, but you do also have to pull on it. It's the only hold you actually have to pull on, on the whole route cause your feet are quite bad at that point. And then you did the extension, the sort of direct finish coming out of Meltdown as well on the do it as well, which excites me. Like it's, it's, well, it sounds actually like appallingly dynamic, which makes it sound kind of like quite fluffable, like the least, like the thing you'd least want at the top of a route. Yeah. And it's run out cause there's no more bolts. And yeah, so there's so much, this is why it's taken me so long to kind of figure it out. Cause there's also, cause of the trad, I would quite like to do it on trad eventually. So I didn't bolt it. And the idea of doing that stuff on trad, it's really scary because, because, cause it's so slabby. I actually, cause of some RPs lie down and it's like, it's like to do on tragedy, it's like a 15 meter run out. It's like very, very serious fall. So I was like, I'll go up and start taking small falls and get used to it. And I took like, I went about two meters above the gear and jumped off and I really hurt myself. So if you fell, if you fell like 15 meters, you'd, like, even if you didn't hit the floor, you'd be like in hospital, but quite majorly, I think it'd be like having a really bad bike crash. How did it, so like, I mean, something again, you've acknowledged is the fact that like, you know, you've come on a lot. Since climbing the meltdown and, and I mean like, you've also said that the Darwin stone is probably like, it's sort of almost, I think you've said something along the lines of, it's almost like, it feels like more than a grade harder, but I guess your relationship with the meltdowns changed because of the fact that one, you've done it. And also too, it's like those moves that maybe didn't feel so familiar when you did it last year and now just completely ingrained. Yeah. This is a problem with slate is that, so the, the meltdown groove feels like the easiest part of the new route for me, but then it might not be, it might just be because I know I'd already like red point those moves and then I've been red pointing them again. So I know them really well and like slate, like say you don't really have to pull on it. So if you've got like good shoes and you just stand on them, like when, when the conditions are good, the temperature is right on you for the rubber. And you know, you're not feeling like having to chalk up loads. It's just like not too much wind, but like a little breeze. It feels like easy, like once you've dialed it, cause you're not having to pull. I know grades, they're one of these things that like, everyone's like, Oh, why do you ask the grade question? But then everyone wants to know the answer to the grade question. I think within your post on Instagram, you said something like you're a believer and it's, you know, you it's in putting grades out there basically. Cause they are just, I mean, we've talked about this a lot. It's just there an indication of one person's experience of, um, but nine a plus is a big number as well. Franco. So yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know. We've just started dripping. Um, um, yeah, it's big grade. Um, yeah. I don't really know what to say. I have no idea really. I'm not, I've like hardly really climbed anything that hard. I hear a lot of, a lot of people try them out down and say, Oh, it's not that hard. Maybe it's not that hard. You know, I don't know. It's completely dependent on what grade meltdown is. I think it's harder than meltdown, but, um, yeah. More people be climbing the meltdown if it was easy, Franco. Yeah. Quite a lot of people try it and then they say, Oh, it's not so bad. And then don't do it. So, but then it's a bit of a hassle to try it. So yeah. I almost would prefer not to grade these things and then, um, just drag down into the Maya. Yeah. I dunno. Yeah. Even the not grading of things and particularly like trad routes has become a bit of a, um, even that's used as a bit of a, there's a bit of like politics behind that now, isn't there? Where people don't grade things, but strongly imply it's a certain grade. And you're like, well, kind of a nonsense. Back off the intangible and onto the tangible, um, footwear you were wearing TC pros. And I know something you just said, um, that was about rubber condition, but also I guess about like, you know, that was in terms of temperature also in terms of like, you know, on these edges, you know, they are so small. I mean, I've climbed up to like E5, E6 on the slate, um, you know, which is maybe looking at 7A, 7B and the foot was pretty small. On the slate it can be absolutely nails though. But I mean like how, yeah. I mean, what was your thinking on the footwear front? Um, so like doing, doing the individual moves. So if you just went on a top rope on the meltdown, you could probably do the moves and like quite a lot of shoes. Um, but where it becomes really important is when it's, when you're like going for red points and doing, and you want it to be able to rest your way up. Um, uh, most recently I haven't done this before. Most recently I've been going like Lambert resells and they're like, like reshape issues because even after like a couple of goes, um, the edges just get like really rounded because I mean, you're basically standing on very, like the very sharp holes. They're almost like a blunt knife really. Um, so you can get like quite deep gouges and stuff in them. And, uh, so shoes are really, really important. Um, yeah. I used to wear mirrors quite a bit, um, which are good. They're like more sense, more sensitive. Um, but I found TC pros kind of a better for the sustained thing. Cause they're just that little bit stiffer. They take a little bit of getting used to cause they are so stiff, but you can just climb really hard on them. Final question, uh, from the UKC sport fans is, uh, do you think you're ever going to climb a French eight? Cause you have missed out that particular magic grade. You skipped it from, what was it? Seven C plus to nine. I have, I think I have actually climbed in my head now. I think I did one in Spain. Yeah. I was going to say, you'll be good enough one day. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think, I think I did do one there. You've got it in you Franco, if you haven't. Yeah, I do quite like, I like the idea of sport. It's just getting time to do it, isn't it really? Um, and I'm like colossally weak now. Like, cause all I do is, it's just like really hard walking, isn't it? Slab climbing. Seriously Croxy walking. How did it feel getting the blessing from Adam Ondra who said so cool on Instagram? He started following me a while ago. I was like, I was like, is this like a troll? I was like, uh, you know, I think he's really psyched for the North York Moors. Have you ever met him? Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, everyone's mad at Adam Ondra, aren't they? I was having a fried breakfast once and he walked over to talk to Michaela. Just sitting with him. It'd be really, I'll tell you what would be interesting. It'd be interesting to see how someone like Ondra would get on. I'd imagine he'd like cruise it. Um, but I'd be really interested to see how he'd get on with like the project. So there's like this project in Tough Mudder. Ondra's not just climbed hard grade, he's also like really good technically. Um, but it's such a weird style. I don't, it would be interesting to see how someone, like if you've not climbed on slate, climbing on slate is quite hard. So it'd be interesting to see how even someone who climbed like really hard limestone of a similar style would be able to climb on slate. Elsewhere in the climbing world, Toby Roberts has booked his place into the Paris 2024 Olympics by winning the Olympic qualifier event in Laval, France. In doing so, he becomes the first British man to ever qualify for climbing in the Olympics. And given his form throughout the competition calendar this year and his generally upwards trajectory, we think he'll be someone to watch out for. Speaking to Sean O'Coxy, who was commentating at the event, Toby had this to say, I'm truly, truly lost for words. I don't think this is ever going to sink in. Coming into this competition, I tried to come in with no expectations and just enjoy the climbing. And yeah, I just have no words. I've been training for so long for this and it means just so much. In the women's, Auriane Bertone of France won her own decisive victory, thus ensuring her own place in the 2024 Olympics.