Extended interview: Demi Moore on embracing challenges and more

Welcome. I'm Tracy Smith and this is Here Comes the Sun, a closer look at some of the people, places and things we bring you every weekend on Sunday morning. Actor Demi Moore is known for her iconic roles in Ghost and G.I. Jane. Now she's starring in The Substance about an aging television star who finds a magic potion that transforms her into a younger and seemingly perfect version of herself. Moore told me she struggled with her self-esteem in the past, but now she's more accepting of herself just as she is. For you personally today, when you look in the mirror, what do you think? Um, it fluctuates. Some days I look and I'm like, wow, that's, that's pretty good. And some days I catch myself dissecting, hyper focusing on, you know, things that I don't like. The difference is now I can catch myself. I can go, yep, I don't like that loose skin, but you know, it is what it is. So I'm going to make the best of what is as opposed to chasing what isn't. Later in the show, Demi Moore on embracing challenges. And one of the lines in the film that always really struck me was when they're when I think Dennis Quaid is making the reference to a woman's fertility, like, you know, being tied to their value and desirability. And again, you know, there is an aspect that kind of, you know, and I like to say up until now, kind of put women at a at a certain age or time in their life is like, well, you're you're now relegated to this corral because you can't be that. And I just don't think it's the truth. I don't think that is the the truth of who we are as women. As we get older, then Seth Doan explores the cave town of Matera, Italy, where people have occupied these historic structures for thousands of years. How old is this place? Here are remains of Neolithic villages that date back to more than six thousand years ago. From that time, man has probably never left this place. UNESCO declared it a World Heritage Site in 1993, noting Matera was first inhabited during the Paleolithic period, showing continuous human occupation through several millennia. That's all coming up right here on Here Comes the Sun. For most of her career, Demi Moore felt pressure in Hollywood to maintain a certain body image. When she filmed Indecent Proposal in 1993, she would bike from her home in Malibu to Paramount Studios every day, 30 miles each way to make sure she stayed fit, all while nursing a new baby. Now, at 61, Moore tells me her image was everything at the time, but today it doesn't matter to her that much at all. How long have you lived here? Since 2005. It's had some interesting incarnations. It was a house with three kids, and now it's just me and my silly pack of dogs. It's hard to think of Demi Moore as a grandmother who lives alone, but here she is, and doing what some are calling the best work of her career. Have you ever dreamt of a better version of yourself? Her latest film, The Substance, is about an aging TV star who finds a sinister-looking potion that can give her a younger, more perfect version of herself, but at a terrible price. The story is pure fiction, but Moore says the issue of women putting themselves through hell to look perfect is real, and one that she's grappled with for much of her life. I'm fine. Everything's fine. You've talked about how, when you were younger, early on, you felt that idea of, my value is in my attractiveness. I put so much pressure on myself, and I did have experiences of being told to lose weight, and all of those, while they may have been embarrassing and humiliating, it's what I did to myself because of that. Well, some things aren't for sale. Such as? Well, you can't buy people. For example, when she was shooting 1993's Indecent Proposal, she would ride a bike every day from her home in Malibu to Paramount Studios in Hollywood. That's around 30 miles each way. And you were nursing a baby? Then shooting a full day, which is usually a 12-hour day, and then starting all over again. Oh my goodness. Even just the idea of what I did to my body, it's so crazy, so ridiculous. But you thought it was what was required at the time. Yeah, but you look back and you kind of go, did it really matter that much? Probably not. But at the time, I made it mean everything. Kevin, I'm curious. You know, all those nights we stayed up talking, how come you never made a pass at me? Demi Moore's been in the spotlight since the 80s, a talented and at the time troubled member of Hollywood's so-called brat pack. On screen, she sparkled. Off screen, she struggled with self-esteem. When you look at St. Elmo's Fire or About Last Night, what do you think? What do you see? I just have a lot of compassion for what a scared little girl I actually really was, even though I didn't let anybody see that. Even though you came across as so confident. And if I could go back, I would give her a hug and say, it's OK. It's OK. It was OK. Moore went on to become the highest paid woman in the business, and she lifted other women as well. When she got a record 12.5 million for the 1996 movie Striptease, other women in Hollywood demanded and got bigger paychecks themselves. She also challenged the notion of things like whether a 40-year-old woman should wear a bikini. And after shaving her head for 1997's G.I. Jane, how long a woman's hair should be when she reached a certain age. Now, at 61, her hair hangs to her waist. After I shaved my head, I think I just started to let my hair grow with the idea that you can have long hair if that's what you want. Who says that it's not OK? I've heard it many times. Really? Yes. If I didn't think I liked how I looked, then I would cut it. But it's really like, I don't know. Is there a problem? No, it's perfect. You're a good candidate. And in the substance, she's once again asking, why do we think this way? OK, what's next? What's next? I want to talk about this scene where you're going out for a date and you keep looking in the mirror. What was the process like shooting that? It was difficult. Emotionally, that idea that I think many of us have been where we're trying to make something better and then we just keep making it worse. For me, it's one of the most heart-wrenching moments in the whole film. It was at least 15 takes each time. And so by the end, my face was raw. Raw. What do you do after a day like that? You go fall apart. You just go fall into your bed. For you personally, today when you look in the mirror, what do you think? It fluctuates. Some days I look and I'm like, wow, that's pretty good. And some days I catch myself dissecting, hyper-focusing on things that I don't like. The difference is now I can catch myself. I can go, yep, I don't like that loose skin. But you know, it is what it is. So I'm going to make the best of what is as opposed to chasing what isn't. Give me an example of that. Something that maybe you chased that in retrospect, you lost something. It's like this idea where I go, oh, you know, I used to think, oh, like my face. It's like, oh, so chubby. I have no angles. I have nothing. And then you're like, yeah, but now it's like loose. I wouldn't mind some of that chubbiness back in the right places. So today is the day that you usually go visit Bruce? I mean, when I'm in town, I try to go over every week. Moore has three grown children with ex-husband Bruce Willis, who's now living with dementia. The important thing is just to meet him where he's at, as opposed to being attached to who he was, how he was. Because, again, that only just puts you in a place of loss versus being in the present, meeting him where he's at, and finding the joy and the loving of just all that is where he is. It seems to me Moore has found peace with the things that are beyond her control, a wisdom and a freedom that, if we're lucky enough, come naturally in a long and interesting life. I think that I'm sitting in a different place in my life than I've ever been. I have the most autonomy. My children are grown. I have my most independence that I've ever had. And so I just am really trying to focus on what really brings me joy. I don't like to project and say, well, this is where I want to be, because I don't know. I don't know where I'm going to be. But I know that it's an opportunity for me to actually have a good time. After the break, an exclusive excerpt from my chat with Demi Moore, something you can only see right here on Here Comes the Sun. Stay with us. And yet, intellectually, I know how powerful it is to be in your vulnerability. As promised, here's more from my interview with Demi Moore. Do you really think that Hollywood is changing when it comes to aging women? What I see is that there's a lot more representation. There's a lot more diversity. There's not just one set ideal or one aspect of beauty that is the only standard. And I think in terms of roles, there's a lot more interesting, complex female characters that I think have emerged. I think that there's still progress that needs to be made. I think that there's still... And one of the lines in the film that always really struck me was when I think Dennis Quaid is making the reference to a woman's fertility, like, you know, being tied to their value and desirability. And again, you know, there is an aspect that kind of, you know, and I like to say up until now, kind of put women at a certain age or time in their life is like, well, you're now relegated to this corral because you can't be that. And I just don't think it's the truth. I don't think that is the truth of who we are as women as we get older. And I think, again, like the film, there's a part of that that we as women have bought into. And so if we want to change this, then we have to change how we're looking at it, how we're holding it and how we see ourselves. We can't wait for it to change on the outside. We have to be that change. Do you like stepping out of your comfort zone? I think it's the only way for us to grow. It's the only way to. And I feel like the greatest moments of growth in my life are when I've had the courage to step out of my comfort zone. Like just in general of, you know, sometimes it's just stepping outside of my house. You know, I don't know. Let me just think about that. I don't know if there's any one moment that jumps to mind to like really like give you as an example. But anything that I think challenges a limitation, but in particular the things that really push you into your vulnerability. It's not where any of us are really comfortable. And yet intellectually, I know how powerful it is to be in your vulnerability. It's one of the places where we connect the most with each other, even though it's really scary to get there. Yes, because, you know, it feels exposed. It feels like you're laying yourself out there where you could be hurt. And we all have a natural sense of wanting to be protective. I've read a few articles that are calling this time, this film, Demi Moore's comeback. Do you like that? I mean, I think it's catchy, but. Is it a comeback? I mean, I think, you know, I don't know. It's not like I really went anywhere. I think there was a pause to a certain degree where I was putting my energy and focus in other places. So. But I don't think of it that way. But. I understand it. I understand how that could be seen as like because there hasn't been a film in particular that has. Probably been as in the forefront. Like this. That I've had the opportunity to do in a while. Up next, contemporary living in ancient caves. Welcome back. The town of Matera, Italy, otherwise known as the saucy, is home to two neighborhoods full of ancient caves. These caves have been home to people for thousands of years, and now they're re-envisioned as hotels and restaurants. Seth Doan explored the caves with a guide who grew up there. This primeval place of caves carved into the cliffs is a chameleon of sorts in cinema. Standing in is the ancient holy land in Passion of the Christ. Or the remake of Ben-Hur. And making a modern-day cameo as itself in James Bond No Time to Die. These winding roads, historically without the speeding Aston Martin, snake through the hillside town of Matera in southern Italy's Basilicata region. A good backdrop for even those just pretending to be in the movies as kids. It was a big playground. We felt like Indiana Jones exploring empty caves. Indiana Jones running around through these little streets. Vito Rondinone grew up in what's called the saucy. Saucy in Italian literally means stones. But here in Matera, by saucy, we are referring to two ancient neighborhoods of the old town. Their main feature is that behind almost all the buildings there is a cave. How old is this place? Here are remains of Neolithic villages that date back to more than 6,000 years ago. From that time, man has probably never left this place. UNESCO declared it a World Heritage Site in 1993, noting Matera was first inhabited during the Paleolithic period, showing continuous human occupation through several millennia. Why were people digging into the hillsides here? Because the rock is very soft. Rondinone, who's a guide with tours by locals, showed us the simple cave his dad uses to age wine. Salute! And the far more spectacular. Here we are in one of the most fascinating caves of the saucy. It's a church. It's one of the so-called rock churches. So as you can see, it's completely dug out of the rock. A vast centuries-old network of cisterns to collect rain and spring water allowed the city to develop and endure. You can stay in a cave where our ancestors lived thousands of years ago. Those ancestors, however, were not living like this. We tried to restore the original cave dwellings and converted them into hotel rooms. Michele Centonze is a manager at the luxury hotel Sextantio. This is the executive suite number 13. They offer tourists the chance to glimpse another era. You have to imagine that in the past, it used to be a big house for a family of 10, 12 people with donkeys, animals. This stable turned suite now goes for upwards of $1,500 a night. We try to be as much respectful of the identity of the place as possible. Yet in the 1950s Matera was having an identity crisis with a reputation for being the shame of Italy. During the country's post-war economic slump, Carlo Levi, a famous writer, detailed the squalid conditions humans and animals living together in caves. He compared the Sassi to a circle of Dante's hell. A circle of Dante's hell. It's a very strong description, but also thanks to that description, the spotlight on this strange city turned on. A local museum recreates how families lived until Italy's government relocated most of the population to modern homes in the 1950s. For decades, much of the Sassi sat empty. There's still a lot that needs to be developed here. Yeah, a lot of caves that were abandoned in the 1950s, and they are so expensive to be restored. That's something restaurateur and entrepreneur Michele Bandini sure knows. It's a unique place to work. It is. It's a unique place to work, and then you find these crazy surprises. I mean, you move a brick and you find cisterns. What do you do when you find a cistern and you're renovating a bar or restaurant? The easiest thing is to pretend you actually didn't find the cistern. Are you really telling me that on camera? Because it is so complicated. Bandini, who's South African, fell in love with the man from Matera and then with the town itself. How much has life changed here in the 30 years you've been in Matera? Wow, how much can life change? She's been a part of that, opening the hip bar, Area 8. Cheers. She invited us for aperitivo. Their bartender crafts his own gin and ice. Matera is a city you'll find on a bucket list of travelers all over the world who really, really want to come here and live the cave experience. You know, sleep in a cave, eat in a cave. Or have a drink in a cave, in your case. Absolutely. These cliffside caves, settlements for millennia, are drawing a new generation of filmmakers, tourists, and business owners, sparking a rebirth while celebrating the past. Now it's incredible how the same reason why the city was labeled as the shame of Italy, now it's the pride. I'm Tracy Smith. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you here next time on Here Comes the Sun. Bye.