Learn About Australian Red Wines and What to Pair Them With | Sam Maher of Somebody People

I am Sam Barr. I am the owner and operator of Somebody People Restaurant, a fun little restaurant which is on South Broadway in Denver, plant-based restaurant doing Mediterranean food with a fun twist. What we try and do is really concentrate on whole vegetables. We don't try and do any fake meats or cheeses or anything like that. We just want to do really honest cooking, kind of the cooking that your grandma would have done back in the past, you know, pulling vegetables out of the I would call it food from the soul or food from your heart, you know. I'm also a bit of a wine fanatic. I love wine and have for a long time. It's taken me around the world. Today we're going to talk about red wine from Australia. It's a fascinating topic which really caught my attention just recently after a little debate between Jancis Robinson and Oz Clark, two greats in the wine world and they were debating old world versus new world and what Oz Clark said about the new world really caught my attention and I want to elaborate on that today whilst tasting some of Australia's top red wines. When we're talking about the old world, we're talking about France and Spain, Italy, that kind of world. When we're talking about the new world, we're talking about South Africa, New Zealand, Australia. What my kind of realization about that was that, you know, the old world is built around family traditions that have been in generations of making wine and they're doing it the same style, the same way. Yes, it's perfect. Yes, they're amazing. Yes, they'll probably change your life if you taste the correct ones. But with Australia and New Zealand, what you're getting is you're getting these winemakers who are kind of like Picasso, Marcel Duchamp of the art world and they're really pushing the limits. They're changing what things are doing and they're really creating new wines or new inspiration around the wine world. So, that's what really attracts me to these wines. Plus, I'm Australian. There's another thing that attracts me to Australian wine. So, I'm not going to lie. You can tell by my accent. Another difference between the old and new world, right? The old world is about terroir. Terroir is the earth and it's the environment where the grapes are grown. The new world, when Australia first burst onto the scene, was about the grape and getting perfect juice from that grape. Now, as the two winemaking families, let's say old and new world, have started to work together, what has been learned for the old world is that going to university, learning how to make picture-perfect wine is an advantage to the old world because you're no longer getting the kind of those taints that you might necessarily see in old world wines. What the new world has learned from the old world is that terroir is such a beautiful thing to kind of create in your wines. So, with Australia, there's so much diversity in the soils and so much diversity in the land that it needs to be showcased through wine and wine grapes. So, the beautiful thing about wine which is coming out now is that wine, specifically as a beverage, is a true depiction of the seasons and the earth and what actually comes from the ground. Every winemaker is basically trying to create an artwork out of growing grapes within the vineyard. And so, whether that be if you're growing grapes in, say, Margaret River, for instance, or if you're growing grapes in the Cote d'Or in Burgundy, what you're trying to say is that the fruit that is growing from this land, I'm trying to bring it up through the grapes and through the juice, and then I'm trying to ferment it into a wine, but that wine has the taste of that earth. And so, now what you're seeing in the new world, specifically in Australia, especially with these beautiful young winemakers that are just doing some awesome stuff, what you're seeing is that there's specific places within Australia that have unique terroirs or unique earth that the wine is being created on. And it's really coming out. And the great thing about some of the young winemakers is that they're showing massive respects to the original owners of the land, the Aboriginals, and they're trying to give back to the land. I think that that's such an important message for any winemaker is that we can no longer add herbicides or pesticides to the land. We've really got to showcase what the land naturally has, that natural sass and flavour that's coming from the land. Australian wines kind of crashed onto the scene through various tastings being held in Paris. Companies like Penfolds really pushed the traditional French wine scene to the limits. Over the past few years, there has been a bit of a decline for the Australian wine industry, but now you're seeing some young blood and an injection of young ideas and young energy into the Australian wine industry, which is coming out as just some fabulous, fabulous tasting wine. Now I'm going to delve into some of these wines. So after that slow motion pour, we're tasting Unico Zello. The winery is in the Adelaide Hills, but they do have some vineyards in the Riverland, Clare Valley. What this wine is, this is Nero d'Avila with a little bit of Zabibo. Zabibo being a Sicilian grape variety. Nero d'Avila, also Sicilian. But if you think about Sicily, it's an island. It's pretty hot. You think about Australia, it's a big island. It's pretty hot. I do believe that Australia has the most Italian grape varieties per hectare of anywhere outside of Italy. There's a massive Italian community, first and foremost, which is incredible. But the grape varieties that we've brought over from Italy really lends itself to our terroir, which is the appropriate word of this conversation. The winemaker Brendan Carter does lots of stuff for the Australian wine industry. Just kind of a pioneer of someone who's pushing it. Love what they do. They're always very approachable, easygoing wines. And this wine especially is just a fantastic little entry-level Australian wine that you can kind of find in most places. What's coming through is that you're getting this kind of Italian kind of sense that you're drinking Italian, but with this gorgeous Aussie kind of influence as well. So yes, a focus on fruit, but there is this kind of expression of Italian sass. Do you know what I mean? And so that is coming through the wine. You're also getting kind of the clarity of fruit that you will find in the Allied Hills. So this is where a percentage of the grapes are grown. With the Riverland, where the bulk of the grapes are coming from, it is a flat kind of mass-produced area, mass-producing area, but it's very fertile, but it does produce some amazing wines also. So yeah, so like a beautiful violet, dark-fruited bouquet, which is coming through. A little bit of spice, a little bit of baking spice, great acidity, really soft tannins. Best enjoyed with things like softer risottos, even some general kind of roasted vegetable dishes, you'll find that they're pretty amazing. So an amazing value, it's called Fresh AF. I'm not going to tell you what that means, so I don't want to swear on camera. Definitely a great little entry level, super enjoyable, fun for any time of the day, really. Whether it be nine o'clock in the morning, if you've been up all night, or whether it be 12 o'clock in the afternoon on your balcony on a hot summer's day. I don't know why I said that, but anyway, that was weird. The tin is my spittoon. Sorry if it's a fashionable spittoon. Yeah, it's great. Little violets, fruit, sandy limestone soils, good little wine. I'm super excited by this wine. Comes from one of the oldest winemaking families in Australia. The son is Matt and Lentil, his partner, are using, again, Italian grape varieties out of the Goulburn Valley, which is a large-ish wine growing region in Australia. Fabulous little kind of concept around the wines. Again, as I said, it's 70% Sangiovese, so you're getting that kind of sour cherry Sangiovese note. It is backed up with a little bit of Syrah, a little bit of Cabernet Sauvignon Merlot, so using kind of more traditional grape varieties alongside Sangiovese. You can almost call that super Tuscany, in a sense. This wine, which is different from the Unico Zello, is not as bright and poppy. It's a little bit more structured. It's a little bit more kind of earthier or savory. Really, really good wine, grown in a really hot area of the Murray Darling, a big fruit-growing region in Australia. They're having a lot of fun, whilst also respecting the land at the same time. Just a really cool, cool concept, if you think. Again, on the nose, just sour cherry, lots of spice, lots of bright notes. Super enjoyable, especially with that Sangiovese, the dominant Sangiovese note. It's going to be great with food. If you're thinking that you want to go home and have a little spaghetti bolognese tonight, try and find this at your local wine store. It's like an incredible wine. I think that with that kind of medium tannin, the kind of cool, kind of higher acidity, mixed with that kind of sour cherry and that slight little Cabernet note, which kind of pops through that kind of cassis and all that kind of stuff, you do feel like you're sitting in a little Italian trattoria with a little checkered tablecloth, eating a big bowl of bolognese, while someone's singing beautiful Dean Martin songs in the background. That's kind of the feeling that I get from this wine. So, get into it. We're moving on to Murdoch Hill from the Adelaide Hills. They planted vines in around 1989. Since then, they've really kind of rejuvenated the Adelaide Hills as an area to create some great wine. So, the Adelaide Hills were first founded in probably about the 1840s. Penfolds arrived there and created McGill Estate around 1844. Now, you've got Murdoch Hill and you've got a variety of new, younger winemakers that are doing some great stuff out of there. The Adelaide Hills isn't far from Adelaide City. It's beautiful rolling hills. It's seen as a cool climate region, known for its Chardonnay, but also known for doing some outstanding Pinot Noir and some blends as well. So, just depending on where you are in that region of the Adelaide Hills. Michael Downer and Andrew Downer are probably the two faces of the winery at the moment. Michael Downer is the winemaker. Andrew does all the design for the labelling and everything like that. Michael came to Somebody People and poured wines for us to put his wines in front of some of our customers. The greatest thing, I think, about these wines is they're kind of perfect in their style. So, yes, organic, yes, amazing wines, but also stylistically for the grape variety and from that region, they just kind of emulate it. It's almost like the perfect backup band of that grape variety within that area. It's incredible what you're getting, value for money, and if you want an amazing wine that both attracts kind of old-school drinkers to new-school drinkers, this is incredible. So, a little Murdoch Hill from the Adelaide Hills. Murdoch Hills respects the land that it's grown on. There's definitely a tribute to the original owners for this winery as well. Cabernet Sauvignon is 57% of this wine. So, Cabernet Sauvignon, cassis flavours, you get a little eucalypt. So, if you think about Australia, right, you think about koalas in trees, in eucalypt trees. Wines from Australia now, because they're trying to depict the terroir that it's based on, you're getting these great natural Australian flavours throughout the wine. So, like, you can fool yourself by saying, well, yeah, it's got eucalypt in the wines, but really when you kind of think about it and you smell it, you do get eucalypt. You get a little saltbush in there. You get this kind of dusty red earth, especially if you're drinking Koonawarra, reds. It's all about the red soils. Here, what you're getting in the Adelaide Hills, you're getting cool climate. You're getting eucalyptus trees around the region, and you do get a hint of that on the nose. Cabernet from this area, when it ripens fully, is so kind of, I was going to say sensual, but it's really attractive. It's like, wow, it's not stalky. It's amazing fruit characteristic. When I tasted these wines with Michael, I was like, wow, everything stylistically through his whole range, it's kind of perfect. And it's like, they're not expensive wines. When you find these in your local store, you're like, these are incredible wines. It's just got such a beautiful nose that you know you're going to really, really enjoy. And it's really adaptable to a lot of different cuisines out there. Obviously, I'm going to talk about the food and so many people, and I do think that kind of heavier pasta dishes like puttanesca, this would work really well. Our grilled cabbage that we do this would be perfect. That kind of really salty, strong-flavored food. Combine it with this, which is such a strong-flavored wine. Full-bodied, delicious. Yeah, just like, just a gorgeous little wine. It's gorgeous. Super silky soft palate. As you can see, I kind of had a second sip of that wine, so I kind of finished the glass. Love what Murdoch Hill are doing. Thank you, Michael, for coming and pouring wines in the restaurant. The last one that we're going to do is one of my favorite wines. I brought this one because it's really special. Giaconda, made by the amazing Rick Kunzbrunner, is an iconic wine out of Australia. It's from a small little gold mining town called Beechworth. As far as classifications for Langton's, Chardonnay is classified as exceptional. It's an incredible winery. Since 1981, been doing amazing wines from every vintage. Beechworth, I'm going to get a little nerdy on everyone. Beechworth as an area is in Victoria. It was kind of created through some volcanic action under the earth, obviously. And what you're getting is you're getting this mix of different soils around this one hill. Now, people liken it to the hill of Montalcino, but the differentiation between Beechworth and Montalcino is within Beechworth, you're allowed different grape varieties, while at Montalcino in Italy, you're only allowed Sangiovese. So what winemakers can do with the soils of Beechworth is grow different grape varieties at an exceptional level. So they're not your everyday drinking wines, but what they are is just some exceptional wines that you might drink for special occasions because you know they're going to be good. Like the quality that comes out of the Beechworth area is incredible. Rick Kunzbrunner kind of arrived in 1981. He did vintages both in France, some in Australia, learned his trade, and then obviously settled on Beechworth as the area where he wanted to create his winery. He's iconic. When you talk about winemakers in Australia, his wines are always exceptional. I try to snap up his Chardonnay every year because I think it's amazing. We're going to drink his little Shiraz today. It's a 2019, so it's a little back vintage. Wow. Shiraz, Syrah in France, probably the most iconic red wine grape in Australia. And from Beechworth, you're not getting the massive Barossa where it's all about the fruit and it's blows your mind at 17% alcohol. This is 15% alcohol. It's not light. Try and get through a bottle if you can. What you're getting is this elegance. It's kind of like you're drinking, like you're wearing, I was going to say a silk dress, but that doesn't make much sense. When you're drinking this, it's very silky. Beautiful person wearing silk clothing, walking down cobblestone streets. It's kind of a feeling that I get from this wine. It's definitely a great night out. Probably the best night out you've ever had. When you smell it, it's deep in red berried fruits, spice, black pepper, really energetic on the nose. It's full in the mouth, plum flavours, stone kind of red, redder fruits. Just really lovely. Really well-made, lasts on the palate for ages. Fantastic, fantastic wine. I remember doing a dinner for Rick at Rockpool Restaurant. And the funny story was that he was opening up some of his back vintages of wine. He had a lot of them in old Chateauneuf-du-Pape bottles. And I was like, oh, why do you have that? And he was like, oh, I didn't have enough money to buy bottles back in the day. So I think we were drinking his 1985s. And I was like, do you want to decant them? Because they were all in Chateauneuf-du-Pape. He was like, oh, no, don't worry. And he would do this with the wine to decant it. He goes, you don't need to decant it, you just need to do that. Now, the wine dinner had wine writers, Stuart Halliday and Len Evans was there. And it was definitely a showcase, probably the 25th anniversary of the winery. So I was just lucky enough to be a little wine waiter or server at that dinner. That kind of comment about you don't need to decant the wines kind of sums up my idea about the Australian wine industry. It's like we create exceptional wines at fantastic quality, but if you don't, excuse my French, but without the wank. And now what we're getting is that a lot of the winemakers are really respecting the earth that they've grown on. They're respecting the natural terroir of the earth, but also using what they learned in universities to create these perfect wines. But with a little bit of creativity, a little bit of sass as well. So there's a whole spectrum of great wines coming out of Australia right now. And I think it's probably the most exciting region out there. I am biased, obviously, being Australian. Hopefully, everyone can go out there and find these wines in their local wine store and get into one. For somebody people, because we are a plant-based restaurant, we only choose vegan wines. There are some wines that are fine with egg yolk, or they might use animal products in the fining of the wines. So what we try and do is we try and search for wineries or winemakers that don't filter their wines, or they use a different fining product, which may be vegan-friendly. After the fermentation, and when you're trying to rack the juice off the skins and the stems, you do get particles in the wine. And so what they're trying to do, it's not so much with red wines, but more so with white wines when they're trying to get a clear and brilliant wine. They filter the wines. There are some winemakers out there, especially the hippie ones, that think that kind of fining the wine kind of strips the wine of some of its characteristics. The cool thing about biodynamics, anyway, is that most of the time they leave that sediment in there, and they let it kind of settle in the sediment. So you always get little bits of, whether it's tartrate crystals or whether it's a little bit of sediment in the bottom of the wine, I think that that adds a little bit of character to the wines. And so don't be afraid if you see something in the bottom of your bottle. That's all I'm trying to say. The little Unico Zello Fresh AF, what we're going to pair this with is a risotto melanese, which is basically a saffron risotto. Really just kind of beautiful, creamy risotto, that kind of beautiful floral, kind of earthy characteristic that you get from saffron coming out. This wine does have a little sweet edge, but I do believe that it's got enough fruit to kind of bring out the blossomy nature of saffron, plus great acidity cut through the creaminess of the risotto. I think that'd be an exceptional little pairing. The minimum from Golden Valley, Sangiovese predominant. I love Sangiovese with red pasta, you know, red sauce pasta. When I was a young vegan, the only thing that most of the restaurants that I could ever, that I've worked in, would have as a vegan food would be pasta with red sauce. So I really learned to love it. And then as I moved kind of more into management and things like that, I would have pasta red sauce with a little glass of wine, but I always chose Sangiovese. I just think it's a perfect pairing. So whether it be bolognese, beautiful tortellini done with a red sauce or anything like that, I think that Sangiovese is the perfect partner. Tomatoes, Sangiovese, cracking combination. So yeah, so Little Murdoch Hills, red blend from the Allied Hills. This has kind of Cabernet Merlot. It is softer. I would say that if you're doing barbecued veg like skewers, maybe it's more of a kind of a Middle Eastern feel. I think this wine would go really, really nicely where you have like a little spice couscous on the bottom of the plate. You're doing it with little like kind of skewered mushrooms, some onions, some kind of bell peppers and things like that over with a kind of a little spicy sauce. I think this would be delightful. The natural richness of the Cabernet Sauvignon, mixed with the plum flavours of the Merlot lend itself to that kind of cuisine. That's what I would suggest. Gioconda Shiraz. Typically, I would just want to drink this by itself because I think it's so amazing. But if I had to pair it, for all you meat lovers out there, a little Shiraz with lamb chops, I think would be exceptional. For all you vegans out there, I do think we're going to pair this with tiramisu. So our tiramisu, we're going to pair it with. So more of a dessert feel to go with this. So tiramisu, coffee, a little bit of spice in the tiramisu and we're going to pair it with this Gioconda Shiraz. So awesome. Yeah, this is like 180 on the list. Coming out of university, I had a business degree and I was kind of umming and ahhing about what I wanted to do. And during university, I worked at McDonald's for about three years. Best job I've ever had. I got a job in a bar, worked really hard. And then I decided to move to London with friends of mine, which seems to be the way of passage for a lot of Australians. They finish university, we go overseas and we travel because we're so far away. During my time in London, I got a job at a Michelin star restaurant called Chez Bruce and I started working underneath a sommelier by the name of Jason McAuliffe. Kind of an unconventional education in wines. Jason was a West Ham supporter. Basically, we would go to the horse races at the start of the day. Then we'd go to Nobu, we'd drink some Burgundy over lunch. Then after service, Bruce Poole, the head chef and owner of Chez Bruce, we'd drink a couple of glasses of wine after service and talk about the wine. This got me really interested in wine. And then Jason and I would obviously get a little ride to Brixton. We'd go out night clubbing, we'd come home, we'd grab a kebab on the way home, we'd come home and then we'd do it all again. That was kind of my education. What I loved about learning about wine is that I went from Chez Bruce and then I went back to Sydney. I started working at Rockpool restaurant where Neil Perry had an exceptional knowledge about Australian wines. So I really delved deep. It's where I got my first taste of Geoconda, Murdoch Hill. That wine list run by Tom Sykes at the time was the sommelier there. But really, I started to learn a lot more from Neil Perry and his palate and what he would combine with foods. After that, I went to Mark restaurant, which is run by Mark Best. Mark restaurant eventually was in the San Pellegrino top 50 best restaurants. I think it got to number 11. But after service, I would sit there and polish glasses with Mark and Mark would start to talk about wines. And so it was really through these kind of the chefs that I really learned a lot. I did have an exceptional mentor as well at Mark Best, at Mark restaurant, Neil Cuddlebrandt, who's gone on to open some amazing restaurants in Sydney. But even now, like when I taste wines, I'd love to taste with Justin Freeman, my head chef. I just love the way that chefs approach tasting wines. They're more about mouthfeel and acidity levels and salty levels, rather than thinking about the kind of the whimsical nature of wines. And I think that that's really grounded me in my ability to taste wines is really listening to the chefs and how they would present the wines for matching with food. That's where I think that a lot of sommeliers fall short is that they should be collaborating with their chefs and tasting wines with their chefs and learning about what would actually go with their dishes. It's a real education because chefs just taste wine differently. I think that's how I got into wines. And ever since then, I've opened up restaurants, I've written wine lists. And I think that the wine industry is in a really exciting period at the moment. There's a lot of wine gluts out there. So there's a lot of regions in the world that are suffering. But I think that there's some really exciting stuff coming out because there's a lot of young winemakers who really want to push the limits. After tasting with chefs in restaurants in Sydney, like Mark and Neil at Rockpool, I decided to forge my own wine career. And what I did is I just traveled around Europe and traveled around Australia and New Zealand and went to wine regions and tried to taste as much as possible. I went to the Hunter Valley and made wine with Andrew Thomas of Thomas Wines. And then eventually kind of came to America where I didn't really need to because there was a lot of sommeliers in America. So I didn't really need to kind of write wine lists or anything like that. But then over the years, I started to read more books and I started to utilize my skills which I learned in the past to write wine lists. Now I own so many people and I can kind of put whatever I want on the wine list, which is way more fun than having any rules. No one really likes rules. So the wine list of so many people kind of showcases my crazy mindset and creativity around wines. And I think it's more about, yes, we want a natural approach to wine, but it has to be classically trained. So that's really what we're showcasing. And a lot of the wines need to be from an island or coastal because that really showcases the food that Justin creates at so many people. So anyway, so obviously there's not a lot of Australian hospitality operators in Denver. I think there's Two Hands, does a brilliant job. Thank you, Two Hands. Really, when you're talking about Australian wines, there's not a lot of sommeliers that have gone, hey, I've gone on a wine trip and I just went to Australia to try and taste through the Margaret River per se. So having a fairly natural knowledge on Australian wines based on traveling to these areas, I just reached out. Now, I'm lucky enough that Synergy Wines, who brings out UnicoZello, really good friend of mine, Patrick works for them. And he set up a meeting with Brendan Carter and they came out, they poured wines at somebody people and I just became quite close with them, obviously. And I think that they're a fantastic product. The others are Legends Wine Australia. Jane and John, two Americans who actually went over to Australia to work in various restaurants and eventually fell in love with Australian wines and brought premium products like Murdoch Hills and Geoconda and Minimum back over to America. So they're now wholesaling these wines in America, which is amazing because it gives us an opportunity to try these wines. Like Geoconda, I never would have thought I would have seen these wines on American shores. Murdoch Hill is just incredible. But yeah, Jane and Jonathan, they did write a book, How to Drink Australia. So anyone interested in Australian wines, you should pick this up. It's a fantastic read. And they're probably the pioneers of Australian wines in America at the moment and we're just really lucky to have them. Okay, so what we're going to do, we're going to pair some of these wines with some food. Obviously, we're going to pair the Unico Zello, Unico's wines, fun, poppy, bright, with this beautiful Risotto Melanese, which is made by Justin Freeman, the head chef at Somebody People. Risotto Melanese, really simple. When I say really simple, obviously risotto to prepare perfectly is quite a hard little task. But here, you're just using a little saffron broth. We use a vegetable stock here. At Somebody People, we don't use any dairy products. We use a vegan butter to try and get that creaminess and that richness out of the risotto. So here, we're going to pair it with Unico Zello. And what I'm looking for is that acidity to cut through the creaminess and that sweetness to kind of bring out the saffron. Like I said, a blossom. I like that term, especially when you're talking about saffron, because it is a flower in a sense, that kind of like energy, kind of blossoming characteristic out of it. Food and wine pairing is definitely a personal thing. You get out of it what you put in, and I do believe that it's really a combination of kind of where that dish comes from towards where you're going to kind of attribute the wine pairing from. So we've got an Italian dish paired with an Italian grape varieties, but with a little Australian twist as well. Just this beautiful creaminess. The rice is cooked perfectly with a slight al dente chew to the rice grain. There's loads of flavor. You can smell the wine, that kind of violets come out of the wine, red flower kind of note. Oh yeah. And that sweetness combined with the saltiness of the risotto, it just kind of goes together. It kind of runs side by side, kind of like the Peloton for the Tour de France when they're charging towards the finish line. That's kind of what it feels like in the mouth. You've got this beautiful, salty risotto that's kind of peddling really quickly combined with the finesse of the climber that's really pumping it up mountain of the wine. It's just like a beautiful combination, and it's going to be a great win at the finish line. Really nice. Nice risotto, chef. Banging. Do you want some? Yeah. It is 2023, this one. Pretty young. Oh yeah. We're not hacks at this, you know. Now we're going to try the uncouth thing of really expensive red wine paired with tiramisu or dessert. Do I think this would work? Yeah, I do. The great thing about Shiraz as a wine pairing grape variety is that it can kind of really combine with really strong flavors. Shiraz as a grape is all about big acid, big tannin, big fruit flavor. It's a robust grape. It's a rough and tumble grape, the kind of like grape that you would always throw in the ring. So that's kind of what I see as Shiraz, but alongside of that, within that kind of hard outer exterior, you also get this kind of softer side of Shiraz, which it probably likes long walks along the beach as well, you know. Giaconda, I do believe, does like that kind of sentimental side of Shiraz where it just wants to kind of think about eating a cake. We've settled on a very rustic kind of grandma style where we scoop it from a bowl. But yeah, it's basically coffee, chocolate, whipped cream, sponge, all put into this beautiful little assortment. A little bit of Amaro thrown in. Coffee liqueur. We love it. And it's a great little way to end a fancy night when you drink Giaconda Shiraz by itself, it can be like overwhelmingly rich and full-bodied and overtaken. Combined with this tiramisu, what it does, it's almost like you're cuddling up into some satin or silk sheets in the bed. It kind of cleans everything up. It kind of binds everything together on the palate. It's really, really, really fun little combination. Obviously, we want you to enjoy the bottle of Giaconda for the main course of your meal. But if you have a cheeky little glass left at the end of the meal, don't be afraid to drink it with the tiramisu. I think it's a great combination. Thanks so much. Am I supposed to be smiling? I was dead serious. That was the more serious side of me.