Bradley Cooper in conversation | BFI

It always strikes me that you're quite a private person. Do you mind this sort of circus of going around and flogging a film and going to award shows? What's it feel like for you? Yeah, I definitely think I am a private person. But it's almost you sort of have to give over to the fact that it's impossible to be private these days. So it's more about acceptance of the reality instead of creating my own reality that doesn't exist. So I've just sort of said yes. Do you have a favorite? Honestly, I was like, yes, it's a lot harder to say no, actually. Do you have a favorite city that you always go to when you've got a film coming out? Do you go, oh, I'd really like to go to Buenos Aires or somewhere? You know, it's funny as the years progress, we go to less territories when you're promoting a film that I've found. This year for Maestro, we only went to here to the UK and Paris. That was it. And I do love I mean, I love London so much. Well, we love having you. Yeah. I really do love it. It's wonderful. I'm so happy to be here. Now we're going to talk about a number of films. We're going to start off with Maestro, obviously, which I have to say, I know lots of people feel the same, but I'm going to say it is a miracle. It's a miracle of a film. Wow. Thank you. I sort of can't believe it in a way. I can't believe you managed to make that for lots of reasons. So I'm going to talk about it. I mean, there's so much to talk about, but let's just talk about Isla Cathedral. Yeah. So I filmed there. Yes, you did. I filmed there nine years ago. Yeah, yeah. They told us. It was my first day of filming. They were very proud. My first day of filming on the Crown. Yes. With my daughter, who's actually here. And that was my first ever filming. Did you shoot that during the day? Yeah, we did. Yeah. So this conversation is just going to be about how to get a techno crane. That's what we're going to be talking about, is techno crane. You had a really big techno crane. Yes, we had a 40-foot technic. Yeah. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare, yeah. I was just so worried that we were going to run into a pillar. Yeah, or the floorboard. Yeah, the floor. Yeah, it was crazy. You know, a techno crane is like a massive crane with a huge extended arm that looks like a sort of like a Lego dinosaur that you're bringing into this beautiful old Gothic cathedral. It feels very sacrilege. One of the central scenes of the film is obviously the Marla in that cathedral. Now, there's so much to say about this scene. I've got a few questions. Yeah. And I know you've talked about this in a number of different ways. And I sort of, I do understand why you ended up miraculously with that one shot. Yeah. Techno crane. I mean, I just, I can't believe you managed to do it with that one shot. I know what happened the day before. So I know. Oh, that story. I know that story. You don't, but I do. So we don't need to go over it. So I sort of understand what happens. What I don't understand. Yes. Is, is, so you're, I mean, I'm going to state the obvious. So obviously you're not doing it with any playback. So, but how, it's the tempi. So how you, you had an earpiece. I mean, how did you, what was the, how did you keep the tempi? Through, through we had rehearsed it two days prior. And the tempi is really based on that 1973 interpretation that Bernstein did. So he set the tempi, the interpretation of that score, the way he did it, which is very sort of prolonged and a bit unorthodox, which he tended to do. Actually, as he, as he grew older, his interpretation started to change. Oddly enough, in the eighties, that's when he was most revered as a conductor. In some ways. But that was the template that Yannick Sagan, who is incredible conductor, rehearsed with the orchestra with me two days prior. And the London Symphony Orchestra, I mean, it's like driving a Ferrari. I mean, their ability to just absolutely abide by whatever the interpretation is, it occurs in one take. Well, it is miraculous you did it in one take. No, but I'm saying they can. I'm saying they can, you know, one rehearsal and it takes an hour rehearsal. Are they following you? I mean, I mean, I would like to think so. But the truth is, when I was messing up, they were still fantastic. So, so, so. But it was wasn't to a click. I mean, they were, you know. No, no, it wasn't to a click. And so Yannick is counting. So like to remind me. But the odd thing is, you know, it's so loud. I couldn't hear a thing. No, I couldn't hear anything. So it was like, you know. When he says counting, what's he actually doing? What's he doing? You know, he's, you know, you know, two, two, three, you know, he's the time changes. Yeah. If it changes into fourths and then back to two. And and and then but but I, you know, the truth is, like, once the solo is finished, I can't hear it. So the last four minutes of the piece, I can barely hear him anyway. And and I kept it enough and was able to remember enough. And more than anything, I gave over to it. Because that was the real thing was, could I, could I allow Lenny, Lenny in? You know, it was one thing to conduct them, but then also to do it as him. And that that was the that was the. When you watch the scene, you know, it doesn't look like you're. I mean, it feels like some sort of. It doesn't look like acting. I didn't say something else. I didn't know what you're going through when it happened. But you're not you're not impersonating somebody. No acting something. You just it's just a sort of wave of this sort of extraordinary emotion that you're sort of engaged in. That was my looks like you in the music. I mean, the hope was the whole point of that scene. And that's why that shot is one. And finally, I realized stupidly that it took me so long to realize what's the scene about. It's about her in that moment. Have you seen the movie? So it's about Felicia. You know, all we've heard her say is there's hate in his heart. And he's only doing this to show you how better he is than you. And my hope is that clearly she didn't really believe that she would never have spent her life with a man who she thought. But she was just so irate and angry for the position she was in, not able to articulate it yet. She's able to do that with his sister later at this point in the movie when they have the fight just prior to Mahler. All she's able to say is just attack him, which in my experience is what we tend to do when we haven't come to terms with what's really going on in ourselves when we're with a partner or wherever. And so that scene is about us and her seeing that there is no hate in his heart. We're actually watching this man's miraculous ability to harness this most powerful piece of music, this one man, and able to then take it and imbibe it and then give it out to us. And that was the whole point of that. It had to be in one take. But you had other cameras in case? Earlier, no, no. After we did that take, then I laid a track right by the podium. And then I got that close up of the wonderful violin section. And I had another track simultaneous. That was just one take over the timpanist and the chorus. And then I had a B camera from earlier, the day before for the bow in the back when that final shot. And then we had a... A Spidey thing. Well, before that, that was the whole... I had a cable cam that we spent a year... Yeah, but I didn't use any of that. Yeah. Except for the first shot. Oh, yeah, yeah, the exterior. Yeah, not the exterior, the first shot. Oh, exterior. Yes, yeah. But the other thing I can't work out, okay, is so you're directing this thing, you're producing this thing, and then you're doing that. Then you're acting it. So on day, on the day like that, when do you turn up? If I'm doing... I'm just the director. I get there before the crew. Do you know what I mean? I go, fucking hell, I don't know what I'm doing. I have my panic attack. And that's a rare thing, by the way, for the director to get there before the crew. But do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's great. I try to work out all the shots so that I know exactly what I'm doing, just so that I can forget it. Of course. But you, but you're acting in it. But you've got to be... What I can't work out, you've got to be all that time in the chair. So you're going to be in the chair means all that time in hair and makeup. So you're going to be sitting there for hours in your trailer. So what times you get on set to work out what to do? So we shot those scenes. It depends on the day. But for example, that day was, I believe, Friday, the second day, because we couldn't shoot during the weekend. I believe we were there Thursday and Friday or Wednesday and Thursday. And we shot at night. So I got there, you know, for that look, I think I got there four and a half hours before crew call. And with Kazu Hiro, who is the wonderful prosthetic artist. And then we would create Lenny in the trailer. And then I would take hours. He would take about four and a half hours for that look, I think. And then, and I would always pad it a little. So, so we'd have, it wasn't so crazy with time. But yeah, I wasn't sleeping much. Yeah, I mean, I was sleeping probably three and a half, four hours a night for the whole movie. But do you feel like this? I feel like when people say, like, how do you rest? It feels like one long piece of time, right? When you're shooting a movie. No, that's what it feels like. You have to nap. Oh, nap. Yeah, I don't get to nap. Yeah, I love naps. I love, I nap all the time. But the, but I still don't understand when do you get to pad the shot? Okay, so, so I get, so I get, so, so then that day, because I was so, so distraught, because I knew the day prior, this was an unusual circumstance in the movie. No other day was like this. But I did get there super early. And then I was walking that, that, that cathedral by myself, probably a half hour before crew, the crew showed up. So I was already Lenny in the, in the tuxedo and everything, just walking around thinking that what's the scene, you know, just sort of trying to clear my mind, doing what you do, which is, which is totally prepared and then throw it all away. I remember Mike Nichols did an interview right before he died, I think maybe a year before, and they asked him, how does he prepare as a director? And he said, well, just like acting, I prepare, prepare, prepare, and I show up and throw it all away, which you just said. Yeah. And, and it's really about listening, I feel like. And at that point in the movie, we'd shot so much. So the movie was its own entity. And I, and the more you shoot of a film, the more the film starts to tell you what it wants, I find. And because you just have all the stuff that you shot. And so it's, it's a much more realistic organism that you can see and feel and how it'll be crafted. So I knew what the scene needed, and I knew that we hadn't gotten it. And I also knew that the language with which we were making the film did not adhere to how we shot it the day before. So I knew, I said, no, what's the scene about? It's about her seeing him. And we have to be with her seeing him. And I, and I don't want to know she's there yet. That's why it's a great shot. Right. And so it's just got to be a reveal. And, and so, so then, so then I, I, we had the techno crane outside for the, for the night shoot, which would just be her driving in and her approach. And then I just asked if we could just, you know, do it again. I brought the techno crane in. And also it's, it's a benefit of your crew. You know, the crew is incredible. And I'd worked with them on A Star is Born. And, you know, so they knew that this, this does happen. I am, I tend to do this kind of thing. So they were very, they're very dexterous. And I said, let's just give me two and a half hours. And I just worked it out with, I said, can we bring the techno crane in? And, and I, and then I was, I was Felicia and I had had a little bow and we were, you know, we had a timeout so that, cause the camera comes over the whole orchestra. So you had to make sure a bow wouldn't come into the frame and knock the camera. So it was very technical. Even when it's coming around your face. That's good. I got to work out conducting that side. Like it's not easy. No. Yeah. Real math. It is real math. You're right. And then to be able to get there in whatever, however, at the end of the piece. And then get to her. Yeah. And get to her. The rhythm of the movement and these cameras aren't easy. No. The rhythm of the camera moved to the music. It's just that it's. And one, you know, one mess up that it's over by anybody in the crew. And you always go back and reset. You know, that's going to break my heart. That's right. We lost it. There's so many. We're talking about that one, one shot. But there's so many shots. There's so many scenes. There's so many shots all the way through the film that are sort of unbelievable. I mean, they're just so beautiful. Thank you. It's sort of. I'll give you another. I mean, here's what you know. It's just even if you follow Carey Mulligan walking down, walking out of a hall and there's a lot of people applauding. You just hold the shot. Yeah. And I just want to talk about holding the shot because you don't succumb to the sort of modern thematicism about fast cutting. You will hold on the shot and you don't need coverage. In other words, you know what I mean by coverage is that, you know, you coverage is. Well, we. Well, then there's we'll do that camera size on on him. And we'll do this camera size on him. And then we'll work our way in. And so it's a sort of way of covering yourself. And you have different cameras to you can put it all together in the edit. Basically, this film is not put in the not put together in the edit. So it's a film. If you may be from you. Yeah. Talking like it's a film that's designed for the camera. That's right. Design. Each scene is pre-designed. That's right. Which is part of the genius of the film, because it's not. It's not a film that was made in the cutting room. I'm back to a practical question. They're just on on this. The when do you watch Russia's? Because you should be shot on film. So that's right. So how do you watch Russia's? And when? Because you're in a chair. You're in the company. You don't really. You know, I would every like, you know, so it'd probably be it was like a three day turnaround because we would send it to photo cam in Los Angeles. You know, you did. You had to send it. Yeah, there's nowhere in Europe. Well, we just tend to like that place. Yeah. And also black and white, black and white film, you know, 35 million. You know, it's it's it's it's sensitive stuff. And we only had like one day where we were beside ourselves that the word came back that it wasn't good. Yeah. But then it was OK. So we were very lucky. Yeah, it's very it's very it's very challenging because we're so used to shooting on digital these days. But everything's different on film. Like it's a totally. But there is a thrill about film, whereas you sort of feel like you're doing a magic trick or, you know, because you don't know you have to wait to see it. There's something kind of wonderful about that. Do you agree? I do enjoy that. It's scary. He is right, right. I mean, I did the first couple of movies on film. Now I love digital because you can point the camera and you go, you know, you don't have to go, you know, action or anything. You just go, OK, let's start. And then you film and then you walk in and talk to the actors. Yeah. And it's all still rolling. Keep running. Yeah. No matter how long it takes. Do you know what I mean? The only thing is going to. No, you have two choices. You have two choices with film, you know, because of the size of the magazine that holds the film. And there's either like a 500 mag or a thousand foot mag. And a thousand foot mag is about nine minutes and forty six seconds of of of reality that you have imagination, imaginative reality that you can capture. And the other one is about four and a half minutes. And and so depending on who the operator is, it's very heavy, too. Yeah. So like on a steadicam, you really can't put a thousand foot mag. You can only really push means you've got so little time. That's right. So so there's an added pressure, which, you know, but we I did tons of tests even because I thought I knew how hard it was going to be. And I thought maybe we can do it digitally. And I just at this point in the technology, I don't think I mean, maybe I'm sure people disagree with me, but maybe not that black and white film stock cannot be matched digitally because I did the red camera. I did the monochromatic black and white. We did. Yeah, I don't know. And I and I and I did. I just had blind tested all of them and nothing looked like that. Thirty five, you know, black and white film stock. But that must be weird as well. Just lighting on black and white. Yeah. I mean, Matty Libatique, who's incredible. You know, you need a lot more light. Yeah. Yes, that's very true. And the blacks are black and the contrast. But most of all, it's like, oh, we need more light. We need more light. That's right. And we did desaturate color for Carnegie Hall because we weren't allowed to get so many lights in. So all that stuff I'm getting. And then also the lobby of his apartment that my daughter throws the paper airplane. We shot that color and black and white. And we went with the color desaturated because it was just too dark. I want to talk about one of those. I mean, there's so many scenes, but we'll just talk about one of them. The so you're with Kerry Mulligan and you're in the Dakota building, which I know is a set. Yeah. And then you do that big scene where she says, I don't love anyone. So again, no coverage. No coverage. So you go, I watch it. I go, well, how did what? Why wouldn't he give himself coverage? Just in case in the edit, you go with the film's a bit too long. How can you? How do you do? I mean, I need to cut it down a bit. Kerry's a little bit slow. None of that. You just is just you don't push in. You never cut in. You just shoot the scene. So I mean, is that just a choice from years ago when you decide to make the film just go, OK, the scene itself is just going to rest on the scene itself and the actors in the frame. I'm not going to I'm not going to cut it. That was always the hope. The hope it felt ambitious for me cinematically, but because, again, I had Kerry Mulligan and Kerry Mulligan is such a beast of an actor. When we're editing this, make sure you go to the end of the sentence, please. And like, you know, like theater, once the director leaves a play, the rhythm of the play is all on the on the shoulders of the actors to keep the ball up and moving. So I knew early on that I had an incredible actress that I that I had no doubt could keep the energy and the rhythm with which Josh Singer and I wrote the scene. But she I mean, I've worked with Kerry Mulligan. I did a play. I did Skylight here with them, which is incredible. Oh, my God. She I mean, there's a great example, but I know Kerry Mulligan well enough to know that the performance she gives in your film is sort of beyond anything I've ever seen Kerry Mulligan do. I mean, it's just she's unbelievably good. Yeah. I mean, it's like, yeah. Wow. She's just sort of she's incredible. And then and again, you you don't suffer the problem that we all have had in the past of overlapping dialogue. No. So you don't bother, you know, partly because you just hold the scene. That's right. But, you know, overlapping dialogue is when you're trying to do a scene with two actors a lot of the sound department, well, can you not talk over each other? Because then we can't kind of feel. But, you know, a lot of the script is we wrote dialogue side by side, which which then everybody reading it thinks, oh, OK, because it's not like this. Yeah. Many of those scenes are written like that because we wanted it to be. And all based on audio tapes of them talking. We had we had such incredible access to these Gruen, John Gruen tapes. But then, of course, but also just while we're talking about that is that they which you do in a couple of your films. But just talking about this one is how they speak in a in a lyrical sort of. Yeah. In a musical way. Yes. For whatever I described, but it's a very specific, very, very. I mean, both of you are brilliant at it. But do you have someone on set with you saying, you know, just keeping you on? I mean, yes. Tim Monick, incredible coach. Yeah, I love him. Who I started working with on the start on American Sniper. OK. And he was there every day on set and more more for just that that word, not not really rhythm of dialogue, but more the word wording accent, you know, you know, you know, softening the T's or whatever, that kind of thing. And was it written? It was written entirely like that. Yeah, it was written like that. But we definitely went off like there's a we definitely went off. It looks like you. Yeah. Like, for example, I ash on her at one point. We're on the floor that just happened. I'm a big believer in that. It's like if you're locked into each other, I'm OK with us. So you do have a tradition of locking into your actresses. I mean, you know, to be honest. Yeah. I don't mean I mean, I'm the best possible way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The relationship with Kerry Mulligan is is so intimate and it's so personal. Yes. Well, we're going to have a clip. Oh, we're going to have a clip. It's not Kerry Mulligan. Yeah, it's my like something like that. I'll keep in the film. You can't write that. We don't have a clip of you conducting or of Kerry Mulligan, but we've got a clip of you with Maya. Oh, OK. A lovely Maya from Stranger Things. Yeah, she's amazing. Maya Hawke who plays Jamie Bernstein. And my daughter plays the younger version of her. That little girl is my daughter. Yeah, yeah. She's incredible. And the kids were amazing with you all the way through the process, by the way. Amazing. The kids were the kids, meaning the Bernstein family. There's three children. They were they you know, I was just texting with them today. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, they're really incredible. Yeah, they're the reason that we had access. I mean, they're the whole reason that we were able to make this. Do they still talk like that? They do. I don't mean that rudely. No, no. They do have a rhythm of their parents. I thought they might. Absolutely. Yeah. Because it's quite particular. Oh, no, it's very specific. Yeah. And you filmed in the actual house? Yeah, we filmed that house that's in black and white and color. We filmed that's their house in Fairfield, Connecticut, which is just like a breathing organism. But a level of investment you must have gone into with that family to get them to trust you must have taken a long time. Yeah. Because it's not a film that you'd imagine the family would automatically assume you'd be making. No, and especially since there hadn't been a film yet about their father, who was such an iconic figure. Yeah, we were very, very blessed that they decided to trust us. And they did. They did. Yeah. And they were part of it along the way. I sent them many, many, many drafts of the script. Did you? When we shoot the movie, there's nobody there. But then after, I would send them clips, sort of sections of the film, like little scenes, if I was excited that Michelle... Risky. Risky, but I was excited. And I felt like they were coming along. And here's the reality. They were just so excited that we were making a movie about their parents and not just about him. Yeah, I can imagine. They were so excited that Felicia... Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Think about it. When I first talked to them about it, I don't think they really believed that we were going to wind up doing it. They were like, yeah, sure, you're going to focus on our mom. I'm like, no, it's actually going to be about your mom in many ways. He's the antagonist. She's the protagonist. And so I think that that was a very exciting experience for them. There's an amazing... Going on about your amazing shots. I don't want to be over complimentary, but really, it's wonderful. It's the best interview I've ever had. So again, Carey Mulligan, just a shot of her in bed when she's got cancer. Oh, man. Just before she dies. Yeah. And you hold it, you hold it, you hold it. And we're just watching Carey Mulligan be sort of unbelievable. And the compassion in the shot, I thought was amazing. Yeah. Yeah, that was... And again, it's credit to the crew, because it felt like we were all making it. That you could hear a pin drop that day on set. You know, you really could. And Christie McCosko, who's one of the producers, she plays... I said, can you please be in the room? Because Carey and her were so close throughout the filming of the movie. And I thought it'd be wonderful if she was in the room. So she's the nurse. She's the nurse. That would just be nice, you know. But, you know, Mango, who's the dolly grip. While we were filming that scene, you know, a lot... In post, you have to take out a lot of noise. And there's a lot of sniffling that you could hear off camera by him, because he had lost his mother. You know, it was a lot of... It was very therapeutic, because I lost my father to cancer, very similar way. Most of what we wrote was basically my dad. He used to do that with his toilet paper, the whole thing. Oh, really? Yeah. Is that where it comes from? That's where it comes from. So specific. Yeah, he used to... He grew up in North Philadelphia, poor. But he worked at a men's high-end clothing store. And when my mom met him, she thought he was rich, because he had nice clothes. And then she realized he was totally poor. And they just gave... He was paid with clothes. But he always held on to that sort of austere way. So when he was suffering from lung cancer, he would be in those blue pajamas, and that had the pocket. And I would remember in the mornings, he would take the toilet paper and make like little pocket squares that he would then cough into. Yeah, yeah. Let's look at the clip. You smoked a lot of cigarettes. Yes, a lot. Fake cigarettes. But smoke, nonetheless, in my lungs. But you used to smoke, yeah? I always smoked when I drank. I was never like a real smoker. Oh, okay. There was a time where I like rolled my own cigarettes, you know, when I was in my early 20s. But no, I stopped when my dad was diagnosed with lung cancer. That was it. Do you read music? I used to. It would take me a while, yeah. But you must have spent... I mean, I know you spent years. I mean, you've got a whole conductor sort of story about conducting since you were a child. But again, the relationship with music in the film is... Yeah, I love music. Love, love music. Now, we're going to have to go on to another movie. Okay. I really want to keep going on about this, but we're going to have to go on to A Star Is Born just for a little bit. Okay. So, A Star Is Born. The funny thing about A Star Is Born is on my... I listen to you sort of every... Not every day, but every other day. Because on my phone, when I plug it into the car, the music just automatically goes to A Star Is Born. That's so weird. I know. On hired cars... It worked. Yeah, we tried to make sure that happened. So, you're very much part of my life. Wherever I am, a hired car, Jimmy... That's hilarious. So, I listen to you all the time. And actually, I was there when you shot. When? I know. Isn't that amazing? I was at Glastonbury when you shot at Glastonbury. You're joking. No, I wasn't. I was brought up nearby. What? And I got my first professional job when I was 15 at Glastonbury Festival. Oh, my gosh. My mother was friends with... Has anybody been to Glastonbury Music Festival? Yeah. It's the greatest. Yeah. Wow. And so, I used to work... We sort of go every year because it's part of my childhood. But then, I remember it was Chris Christopherson. That's right. And then, suddenly, something else is going on. Right. What the fuck is going on now? And then, it was very short. It was like four minutes. It was four and a half. Chris Christopherson gave us four and a half minutes of his set, which was very generous. But how crazy that Chris Christopherson, who was in the third version of A Star Is Born, happened to be doing Glastonbury Music Festival. And we asked him... I mean, no one gives up time in their set. And he did. And Willie Nelson also did it for us at Stagecoach for the opening of the film. Yeah. Because we had a small budget for that movie. And we thought, how... How are you going to get it? And by the way, Glastonbury never allows it. But I've been going there for so long. And I was friends with Emily and Neil. I didn't know that. Yeah. And they're the reason. They allowed us to do it. I'd show them a version of the movie without it. And then said, could we do this? Oh, wow. And they said, if you can get a musical band to allow you to do it, we'll allow it. How come you were going to Glastonbury? I think it was during The Elephant Man in 2015. I went that year because Metallica was playing. And I'm a huge Metallica fan. And so, Michael Fassbender and I went to Glastonbury. Because we're both big Metallica fans. Did you stay over? Oh, yeah. And then I just kept going every year. And I just thought, this is the greatest place. And if we could somehow film here, the production value would be absolutely... Which it was. Yeah, which it was. It was 80,000, 90,000 people. So you get a sense of that character, how big he was, was the hope. Same thing for the opening of the movie, where we shot in front of about 20,000 people at Stagecoach. Because Willie Nelson gave us eight minutes of his set. Wow. Yeah. And why? Because his son was in the movie. Good reason. Okay, great. And now, again, another amazing ensemble you got together for that. But also amazing, that's your first film. I mean, I love the film. Oh, thank you. I mean, it's another miraculous film. But it's just... And again, that extraordinary relationship. This is high praise. My God. No, but your incredible intimacy with Stephanie and that. Again, like with Carey Mulligan. It's like this extraordinary relationship that you have. I got very lucky. Two movies in a row with incredible actors, actresses who really completely gave over to the process. Both of them. Like, it was wonderful. Yeah, but I wonder how you do it. I mean, you must do something to get this sort of extraordinary contact. I mean, I think it helps that I'm an actor. And I've been around for so long. And that I just sort of try to create an environment that I know I would feel comfortable with. And the thing I learned early on is like, if you can give permission to fail on set, then everybody opens up. And in that movie, I was this guy, my voice was low. I'm like, barely you can understand what I'm saying. So clearly I was kind of making a... And I'm directing that way too. So it's like, you're being directed by Mia in that voice. So it's already kind of ridiculous. So I think they're watching me fail all day long. And it gives them permission. And the same thing in Maestro. I mean, I'm like, so then we're going to do this, you know. And it's like, you know, crazy. So I feel like hopefully actors feel like they can now just let loose. But I'm not imagining you're in a scene with Carrie or Stephanie where you do a scene. Okay, now, what I think you should do... I don't know what the conversation is with the other actors. It is like that. I mean, it is. Yeah, it is. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, I always try to whisper or, you know, intimate. So, but yeah, and it'll happen. The other great thing is that I could do it in the scene. You know, as an actor, director, you could help navigate where you want them to go in the scene. Oh, yeah, yeah. You mean where you want them to go with the camera? Well, the camera too. But I mean them. You know, you could sort of, you know, in terms of improvising, you could sort of tell them, you know, if you know what that maybe they're not accessing or what you would like them to explore, I could do it in real time. And all of a sudden, it just becomes very alive. And that's an asset. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That I'm able to have, because I'm also the actor. The unstoppable... Can we, going back to your, you know, this incredible lyric voice that we just heard in Maestro. So, in Star Is Born, can we talk about your... The accent. I don't want to call it an accent. Whatever the voice was. Yeah. That you found and your relationship with your brother. Yes, Sam Elliott. So, did you match him? A hundred percent. Because he didn't match you. I mean... No, no, no, no. I spent, I mean, so I'd originally thought about it some other way in another person. And then, but I was trying to find a voice and create a character. And it was like, I didn't want it to be too country because I love Metallica. So I was like, can it be rock and country melded? And so then he can't be from the South. But, you know, what if he's from Arizona? Okay. Then what's that accent? And it was all... And then I was like, what is that like? And we're working with Tim Monick. It's like, oh, well, Sam Elliott's from Sacramento, California. Is that how it came about? Yeah. And he's got the most just... I just want to hear Sam Elliott talk all day long. And also, that's my idea of a man. You know, really. Because I wanted Jackson Maine to be like pure man, but he's an eight-year-old boy. You know, like his eyes are just this boy that was like stunted by his father at that age. But he's like everything I would ever want to be. It's, you know, sort of the way his aura... Give or take. The alcohol and drugs. So that was the voice that we sort of found. And then as that was happening, I started to think, all they're going to say is I'm just doing like a Sam Elliott impersonation. Literally, that's what I started to think. I was like, what if that's part of the story? Actually, what I'm trying to do is create this man. That's what he's trying to do. So I was like, oh, I'd be interested to watch a movie where a kid's trying to become a man. So he's emulating his older brother, who's Sam Elliott. And then all of a sudden, creatively, I was like, there's something there that I can really hold on to. So when I asked Sam to do it, he came over to my house. And already I'd been working on that voice with Tim for months, like six months. So it was so weird. And Sam was such a sport. I was like, can I just play something for you? And I played me doing an interview that Sam did at Sundance like 10 years ago, like word for word. But it was me doing Sam Elliott in the interview. And he's just sitting there like. I was like, OK, so the idea is. And and then he said yes. And then it was incredible. And then so that's how that voice, that's how that all happened. That's why there's that scene at the end where he says, you know, it was you. It wasn't dad. Before we go, let's watch a clip. OK, let's just watch a bit of Sam Elliott. It goes on as one of the great scenes. You still find it moving. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. He's amazing. He's me. You know what's so funny is because talk about like improvisation. We were driving. I was like, let's just drive in a circle and we'll go back. And we got lost. He said, where the fuck is it? When are we going to start this fucking scene? It's just around here. OK. He's amazing. I love him so much. Oh, my gosh. And to see him play someone who's filled with resentment, I just hadn't seen him do that. And then break up. Yeah. And when he tears up, it's just, oh, my gosh, it's a killer scene. Yeah. And again, you hold the shots. You always hold the shots. You always look after the actor. I mean, you always are looking after the actor. You're not trying to hurry them up. No. You're not trying to outpace them. The trusting of the actor in both of your films is, for me, it's just a joy. Because I'm so used to something else. I'm so used to impatience. I'm so used to sort of irritant by the director. I just go for the beat. Right. Actually, it means that for me, there's a much stronger emotional connection. Yeah. I mean, that's the hope. Yeah. I mean, that's what interests me, too. That's why we're there. That's what the scene's about. And you had a good time with Stephanie? Oh, I mean, there's no movie without her. I mean, she was the nuclear weapon. She was. I mean, I remember when I first went to her house, and she just started singing. And it's like that Maxell commercial with the wine. It was just... And every time she would sing on set, the whole crew would just look at each other like, this is crazy. Yeah. And for her to give the performance she gave. And she was such a huge part of the writing process, too. You know, I really tried to write it. Eric Roth and I tried to really write it for her. You know, and this idea of changing the scenario a bit, much more like the Judy Garland version, where she's not quite an ingenue anymore. You know, it's sort of like somebody probably wouldn't have made it. Yeah, it was really incredible. But did you do a lot of the writing? Yeah, yeah, we wrote it together. You and Eric? Yeah. Because I've worked with Eric. Yeah, I love Eric. We all love Eric. But you would sit there around the table and just go, well, maybe something like this. And he's the most collaborative. Wonderful. Yeah. I mean, his whole thing about that, that whole pecan speech, that's all Eric. The Japanese horse racing, that's all Eric, you know, with the drivers. And then, yeah, and then I would continue to write, you know, as we shot, too. As you shot? Oh, yeah, yeah. Where'd you get the time? On the day, where'd you get that? Oh, I'll rewrite that. Oh, I gotta write that. Oh, I'll direct that. You know, it sort of happens very fast. It's like, well, while we're there, I'll just, I'll take 15 minutes with my laptop and write it and then send it off to the AD department and get and make it right away. That happened often on that movie, not on Maestro. I was way more prepared on Maestro in terms of what exactly what I wanted. But I was calling audibles much more often on The Star Is Born. Do you have a small crew? I tried to keep it very small. But in terms of that, being able to relax enough to go, oh, I do. I mean, presumably, you don't have a lot of visitors. No visitors, really, except Steven Spielberg on Maestro. And was that intimidating? He's so welcoming. Clint Eastwood came to the first day of The Star Is Born. It was amazing. The first day of shooting was the Mexican restaurant. And he lives, he has a place out by Coachella. And he was like, I was like, Clint, we're starting. He's like, yeah, well, when are you? And I was like, Wednesday, Clint, Wednesday. What time's lunch? And I was like, I was like, one, one o'clock. All right, I'll see you then. And lo and behold, it's like 1988 Aldi, like pulls in and he gets out. And he sits down and he's eating his salmon and his blueberries. And it was crazy. And I'm just going, Clint Eastwood's here. It was like, what a christening for the movie. While we're talking about other directors. So, Clint, you've worked with a lot of, did you, with a lot of directors with very, very different techniques to yours? Yes. I mean, astonishingly different, one could say. Is there, of any of the vast number of directors you've worked with, do you just pick and choose bits that are interesting? I mean, you and Clint would be diametrically opposite, I would have thought. But are the directors that you pick up things and bits and bobs from? I don't know if you feel this way, but it's nothing conscious. But yeah, I mean, all of the way that we make a movie is based on everything that, from movies I've seen, from sets I've been on, not just films. I worked with J.J. Abrams on Alias. I learned a lot from him. Todd Phillips in the Hangover movies and Joker. And so, everybody, you know, John Wells on Burnt. I mean, a lot of different people. Ruhei Kitamura on Midnight Maytrain, which I'm sure you all saw. Oh, thank you. So yeah, I mean, I remember John Houston, they asked him when he was making The Dead, was his last film. And they were like, what is, I think, I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but I remember reading it or seeing it, and they were like, what is the key to longevity as a filmmaker? It's a curiosity. And it's like, I definitely am curious. And that has gone a long way, because I just love to learn. And we're all kleptomaniacs to a certain extent. Yeah. We all pick up bits and bobs. Of course, yeah. But I just wonder, okay. Again, I'm just pushing on the, is there... You mean, is there something specific? Yeah. I mean, for example, Clint never says action. And I love that. When I got on a set, we did American Sniper together, and I was like, this is right. Now, some actors like action. I don't know. It's almost like action. You know, it's like, okay, act. And all I'm trying to do is to get everybody, including myself, not to act. I know that sounds weird, but do you know what I mean by not acting? Just sort of being. And so I love that. And he shoots the rehearsal, which I also do. I always do. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, this is it. And then Paul Thomas Anderson, when I did Licorice Pizza with him, I love the way his sets run and how small he makes it. And he tries to get all of the trucks as far away as possible. So you just feel like there's a little nucleus. I love that. So I took that from him. David O. Russell, in terms of overlapping dialogue and being able to talk to your actors in a take, which he does all the time. Oh, I do that. Yeah, which I loved. You know, I loved that. During all the Hangover? No, David O. Russell, Silver Linings, Playbook and American Hustle. Well, yes. And talking of which, another leading lady, Jennifer Lawrence. Amazing. Yeah, who I got to work with again, three times. I'm in love with Jennifer Lawrence. Yeah, most are. Yeah. I'm sort of waiting for you to go, oh, well, my next movie is with Jennifer Lawrence. No, I wish. Yeah, I don't think so. Do you keep in touch with her? I saw her. If you're asking me if I could get you her number, I don't think so. I don't think I could do that. But that was another close collaboration, you could say. That was incredible. The great thing about that was we got to know each other through our dance rehearsals for Silver Linings. We had to learn that dance routine. And that's really what I think brought us to a place of being really comfortable. But she's also very approachable and funny and open and an incredible actor in terms of being in a scene with somebody and they're 100% present. And she's so loose. Incredibly funny. Yeah, and incredibly funny. Yeah, she's got it all. And Emma Stone, too. I worked with her on a movie called Aloha, and I found this. I was like, Emma Stone's just unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah. And that film she's done is... I mean, she's incredible. She's incredible. You know, I love... She is the greatest. Yeah. Talking of dancing, so back to Maestro. So, you know, back to your dance. Oh, yeah, yeah. Again, I'm just going, wow, what a... I mean, and you're very good at it. Thank you. But also that weird, wonderful fantasy sequence that you suddenly jump into. And that again with Justin Peck, who had choreographed West Side Story for Steven Spielberg. I asked him if... I said I had this idea for this sort of magical, realistic scene in the black and white section that would be a sort of micro sort of story of the trajectory of their relationship, rather than doing like a montage. Let's do it and serve his musical theater a pillar as a composer. And the red shoes, to say the least. Yeah. Yes. That's right. Yeah. I love that. And so I said, is there a way that we can choreograph Fancy Free into On the Town in this way that she's showing him... She wants to learn about his music and I want to do it to dance to the three sailors. First, the choreography of Jerome Robbins, which was very specific. That's the thing that I did, the third sailor. And then it breaks into an original choreography at the end. Yeah, that was one. That was a lot of fun. Yeah. And I got to work with this great dance instructor, Craig Sistine, who worked with me for months on that short little piece. I was going to say, where do you get time to do that? You know, all in prep. Yeah. And then you're learning this dance. Yeah. Which you do unbelievably. Thank you. Like, again, I can't believe the amount of... What other problems can you give yourself? Challenges in terms of training. And I kept losing weight. So I was driving Mark Bridges crazy because we had to keep taking in that sailor outfit. I remember on the day I put it on and I looked like it was like three sizes too big. You mean you weren't eating or just because... Well, for the prosthetic, the thing that I kept learning is that the thinner I was, the better it looked because it was a little bobble heady, you know? And I was like... So we were always trying to get to an ideal weight for the prosthetic. And yeah. Was the prosthetic better at a time of day or did it... No, it was really... No. It's okay under light, different lights. It's okay. I mean, Kazu is so incredible. And, you know, the skin texture that he creates, you can light it any way. And it looks... The whole point is like, does it look real in natural light? You know, sun beaming right down on you. Do you still believe it? But you didn't have to go back in the chair at four o'clock to have... The thing that he and I talked about early on was, just because I was also directing the movie was, I really let's... Once I leave that chair in the morning... You're not coming back. I'm not coming back, you know? Did you ever have to stop because of an accident? Not really. He's that good. And he applied it. But he was always lurking back. There's these great set photos and he had like binoculars. It looked like a bird watcher. He'd be always there and I would see him like in the corner. And then if he looked really distraught, I was like, okay, okay, let's go. And he would just touch like a seam because of my sweat or something that was starting to come loose. I've done some work with prosthetics, but I thought yours was just amazing. He was so dedicated. So dedicated. Yeah, it was incredible. And he created a texture that he kept refining that it made it just so easy. It felt like I totally felt like I had nothing on. Wow. You had nothing. I totally forgot. And I would see my reflection and, you know, really? Yeah, I was like, well, who the fuck is that? And how long would it take you to get out? Oh, too long. Yeah, when the day ends, I had another hour and a half. I would be like, just pull it off. And that must be the moment of frustration. No, no, because I was also happy the day was over. But often I would leave and I still had like huge things. I was like, I'll just get off in the shower. And then I'd come back in the morning. They're like, you didn't take it off. Is there, I mean, apart from your own childhood interest in guitars and conducting, is that the reason why you've chosen two musicians at the center of your two films? Or is it just by chance? It's by chance. I mean, it's probably not chance. It feels like chance. It wasn't conscious. But music is the most incredible art form, I think, emotionally. And so to marry that in cinema is like the ideal. I just wonder whether you're next. I mean, The Hours is, you know, Philip Glass is a character in the movie. Yeah, I really know. I really felt that. You know, so you did that. Yeah, it was the character of the, a fully realized character of The Hours was Philip Glass's music. So that's the way, that's the best kind of filmmaking that I really respond to. So these two movies, my hope was to do the same thing. Is your next movie about music? I mean, are you doing another movie? The next movie is a tiny little movie that we're going to shoot in the fall, like a little $10 million movie about a guy who becomes a, you know, but it's funny. Music is seeping its way in. I can't help it. We're meant to be doing other films. Are you going to do some more theater? I'm dying to. You did The Elephant Man, which I saw with David Barry in 1979 on Broadway. That's how old I am. That's right. He did it in 79 and 80. Yeah, because the movie came out in 80 while he was on Broadway. Yeah. I love that play. And we did it here at the Haymarket. We did it in New York and then we did it for a year. I would love to do, I'm dying to do it, actually. Yeah, I love theater. Love it. I've got a couple of scripts. Let's do it. But, you know, you really do have to love it because eight shows a week. And it's just like, this is no bullshit. I mean, it is the real deal, right? I mean, you just, it's incredible. I think. Did you do theater as a kid? Nothing. I was so, I had so much stage fright. The idea of getting in front of people and talking was like a nightmare. So, but I always loved movies, loved them, wanted to be an actor since I was a kid. And then it was grad school where I was introduced to theater. Because when I went to grad school, it was 1998 to 2000 in New York City. And the Labyrinth Theater had just started. So Philip Seymour Hoffman was doing Jesus Hopped the A-Train. And we were able to go in a tiny little black box theater and watch this guy, you know, and that was happening all over. And the Upright Citizens Brigade had just started with Amy Poehler and this improvised comedy. So it was a really wonderful time. Iceman Cometh was on Broadway then. And I saw Philip Seymour Hoffman do Long Day's Journey Into Night. Yeah, it was incredible. I saw that. Yeah, he was wonderful. It is the worst title of any play, isn't it? Is it? Long Day's Journey Into Night. And it's five, I mean, it's like, oh my God. Oh, I love that title. Like, how am I going to smile in that light? I remember reading that in college. I still remember reading that play in college and thinking like, oh yeah, it's my family. Oh really? A little bit. But yeah, somehow that period is sort of gone a little bit. Yeah. But you should do another play. Yes, I'm dying to. We would love you to do it. Yeah, I will do one. The Royal. No, I will do one for sure. Look, we've got to do another movie. Yeah. We've got another clip. We've done Star is Born. Although there's so much to say about A Star is Born. That's, you know, we could hold the whole conversation about A Star is Born. But never mind. We're going to go on. Oh look, we've got to do your Clint Eastwood sniper movie. Okay. Which was a mega hit. Yeah. Massive, massive. And controversial. Yes. For lots of reasons. Which I didn't know would be, probably, ignorantly. You didn't? No, I never think that. I mean, no. Yeah, but it was. The movie was all about the effect of war on our soldiers. And why not take this hero in America, in Texas, of Chris Kyle. And show the reality of what it even did to him. Which is, of course, a noble act. I mean, a good intent. Yeah. Although the film was picked up by the right wing as something else. But again, but your relationship with Clint was forged at that point. I mean, that was the point at which you got very close to Clint Eastwood. Very close. Actually, he had asked me to do A Star is Born prior to that. As an actor. I heard that. Yeah, and I knew I wasn't ready to do it as an actor. I was too young. I hadn't done The Elephant Man yet. And I remember it was horrible. Because he's my idol. And to tell him, Clint, I don't think I could do it was so surreal. And I still remember being in his office. And I was like, I think I'd be acting. I don't believe it. I don't believe it that I could play this guy, Jackson Maine. His name wasn't Jackson Maine at that point. And I remember he was sitting there with his ASICs on. And Silver Lanning's playbook was just coming out. And I remember he was like, all right. And he's like, well, good luck with the silver boobity boo. Well, I'm never going to talk to that guy again. I still remember he walked out. I was like, that is a gangster move, dude. He just killed me. I didn't even know it. So the fact that we wound up doing Sniper was really wonderful. Let's see a clip. This is American Sniper. It's a sort of character study or an acting study in how little can you give out emotionally. It's so contained. It's just about the flick of an eye, which Clint must have just trusted you on entirely. I presume he didn't ever say, can we have a little bit more? No, not really. Chris just sort of guided that movie. And we all just kind of got out of the way. And yeah, it was an incredible experience. You said in one interview that he's still with you. Do you still feel that now? Do you still feel he's still around in you somewhere? The second I was just talking, I felt it. I could feel it. I could say, sorry, there was a flicker. Yeah, something happened. I'm still in touch with Taya and Colton and McKenna, their children. So they're still a part of my life, which I'm so grateful for. And Jacob Schick, who was a Marine, who is a Marine, who was blown up 30 feet out of a Humvee. And he's in there when he goes to the vet hospital. And he actually was in The Star Is Born, too. He was Stephanie's boss. He and I are still good friends. So that movie is my experience and relationships. And Clint's still a friend. And Steve Morrow at Sound. And yeah, so I've maintained relationships from that movie. Wow, I didn't know that. Which means, I mean, one doesn't on every movie. But on that one, it still feels part of your family. Very much so. Yeah, yeah. No, but you're right. Yeah. And that really was the first time in my career that I spent a lot of time preparing. I made like a shift where I had just, it was before Elephant Man. But it was, I turned 40. And I thought, I want to really take the time to prepare for these roles instead of sort of, you know, I thought, let me see if I can do that. And so that was the first time. Oh, really? And that's when I met Tim Monick. And we really spent a lot of months. And then I, and also I had to gain all that weight. And that took time. So it was really like trying to play somebody who was just so not me. That was the first time I felt like I really took that on. But when you're doing The Hangover, those early, I mean, you would just turn up and go, okay, here I am. Yeah, I mean, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. And Silver Linings Playbook, you know, I'm from Philadelphia. And really, Robert De Niro was the reason why I had the confidence. He really believed in me. And he said, you could play this role. And that was a huge break. David O'Russell casting me in that movie was a massive break for me. And it was really because of Robert De Niro. And there's a whole story about you. I mean, he was one of your idols as a kid. You had all that Actor's Studio stuff. Do you want to tell us? Yeah, I mean, the Actor's Studio had a program, a graduate program at the New School. And that's where I did an MFA. And you remember Inside the Actor's Studio? Do you remember that at all? And that was our thesis class. So these incredible artists would come and talk. Did you ever go? Who? No, but I mean. I didn't mean that rudely. And Robert De Niro came. And he was like a hero in our household, being Italian-Americans in Philadelphia. And you could ask a question after. And I remember I had this question about awakenings. But I thought it was too specific and odd. And everybody would laugh at me. And again, still shy. And I am still shy. But I was terrified to ask the question. Because there were lights. And you had to stand up and say you're an acting track and your name. And I was like, I can't do any of that. And then right before somebody asked a question, I was like, you know what? I'm not going to ask that question. I'm going to ask some bullshit question about the mission and riding a horse. And then someone asked a question about the mission. I was like, oh. And then it came to me. And then I asked it. And I said, what was it like when you did this thing where you had to do that when he wants to go for a walk and his malady is coming back? Was that something that he had seen somebody do? Or that's something that just happened? And he was sitting there. And by the way, the interview was rough. He barely answered any questions to James Lipton. I still remember he was like this. And he was like, no, I didn't see anybody do that. No, I didn't. And he paused. And he's like, that's a good question. Yeah. And I was like, and I was standing up and I was like. And I'm like, they're like, sit down, Bradley. And that kept me going for like a long time that he said, that's a good question. I'm not kidding. And then I put myself on tape for Everybody's Fine, this movie to play his son. And he somehow got it. And he asked to meet with me. Yeah. And Sam Rockwell got it. I think he'd already gotten the role. And my mom had played Bob when we did it in my living room. And and he said, like, come, come meet Robert De Niro. And I was like, OK. And he came in and I remember he was like, yeah, he's like, I just, you know, I saw what you're doing and you're not going to get it. But but, you know, I see it. OK, I see it. All right. And then he hugged me. OK, and that was it. He's like, I just want, you know, I see it. I see it. And it was crazy. I mean, for that generosity, like people don't do that. That is amazing. It's really like incredible that he did that for a young actor. It's really. We've we sort of we haven't got a lot of time, but I think we should have one more clip. OK. Should we just see a little bit of silver lining? Sure. Yeah. We're not going to get all the clips, by the way, but we'll get we'll have one more. OK. Just because why not? I'm very happy. Acting with Robert De Niro in his pajamas was incredible. If you can get Robert De Niro, Jennifer Lawrence, Stephanie and Carey Mulligan in Hangover 4, that would be great. We'd look forward to it. But seriously, I just want to go back before we've got to finish in a minute, but I just want to go back to just to congratulate you a little bit more on Maestro. It's it's going to be I think it's going to be one of those movies. You know, I mean, we all have those movies a year ago. That's a good movie this year. It's one of the movies of the decade. I mean, it's going to be it's one of those lasting movies that will always come back to us, not just for everything you've done, but also because it's been standing. I mean, it's just the story of him, which hasn't been told in that way. And it's such an exploration into the genius of the man and the relationship between you and your genius and his genius matching into the music that you and we haven't even talked about the score of that of that movie and what the the rhythm of that movie in terms of what you've what you must have spent what years planning out about how the musicality of that film and what music to choose. But I said at the beginning, it's a miraculous film. And I really do think it's a it's a it's a movie that is a giant in the history of cinema. Wow. I really, really thank you for it. I really think it's a huge gift to all of us. And a huge gift that you're here at the BFI today. And thank you so much for your time. And thank you very much. I love the audience for being here and for a hugely enjoyable evening with you. That was wonderful. Thank you so much.