“HOW THE F*CK DO YOU KNOW!” DAVE ALLEN RAW ON PUNCH DRUNK CLAIMS-WARDLEY CLARKE 2-TRUTH ABOUT BOXING

Right, Aki Karim here for Boxing Now, formerly known as BBTV. Before I start this, can I please urge you to join on to Boxers In Need? It's only £12 a year and every single penny goes to collecting money for worthwhile causes in the boxing community and boxers who need it. I'm joined by Dave Allen on the Dave Allen Show. You've been with your crew earlier, have you? Doing a bit of training and stuff? Yeah, Joe Lim is sparring today. Joe's boxing three weeks tomorrow. Then he's boxing his first eight rounder in November. He talks at the minute about a really big fight for him. He needs the eight rounder to get approval for a title fight, so things are picking up. When you say a big fight for him, is it domestic? Is it an international name or a domestic name? I'm not sure really. I would guess international. That leads me to think IBF international, IBF European sort of thing. That's what it leads me to think. Just a very big fight to be honest. He's going to win the next two, but things are starting to get a little more exciting for him now. You're getting to that stage now, with Joe definitely, that you're going to have to put him into these 50-50 type of fights. How do you feel about that? Does that make you nervous or are you confident in him? Obviously you're confident, but how does it make you feel? No, it's good. At the end of the year I've had 17 fights. He's only been pro for two and a half years. He's only had five amateur fights. But he's a good fighter and he wants to be involved in good fights. He won't lose hard draws as long as he's improving and still enjoying it. Just keep going. You can't wrap him in cotton wool forever. Eventually you have to just say, right, let's see where you're at. Does that add the scrutiny to you, do you think, when someone that you train, coach, manage, goes into a 50-50? Do you think the scrutiny is heightened on the trainers and the people around them? Not really, because if Joe wins, it's all him. And if he loses, it's him. It is what it is. As a boxer myself, when I've won fights, I want all the credit when I lose them. Give me all the stick. As a coach, when my fighters win, all praise goes to them. I've not had a loser as a pro coach when they lose. Realistically, I will publicly come out and probably make an excuse that it was my fault. Realistically, it's the fire. It ain't the end of the world. Whatever happens, whether you lose or draw, as long as you perform to the best of your ability, you try your best, you improve from it, you get paid well, there's no negatives involved. He's getting to that point now where he has to be in title fights and 50-50s and 60-40 against him. Because he needs to earn his money, he needs to improve. There's only so much sparring and working in the gym will do that. He needs to be in competitive fights. I'm really looking forward to it. More importantly, he cannot wait to be in a big fight. I'm really excited for him. As a coach, I'm lucky because as a boxer myself, I've had loads of big nights. As a trainer, I do my best job for them and that is it. I want them to enjoy it. I want them to have that stuff. I'm not interested really. I just want to do my best job I can to help them prepare for the fight. What month are we looking at for this potential fight? Maybe next year. You'd be surprised. I'll tell you after who it could be. Great! He wants to compete. That's what it is. He just wants to compete. People will say he's not ready for that. He just wants to compete. That's what he is. He's a sportsman. He wants to compete. If it doesn't come off, he'll be involved in a different big fight. Next year, he'll be ready to go. I'm really looking forward to it for him. He played football at a good level and now he's about to box at a good level. He deserves to be in his arena boxing good kids for titles and good money. He deserves it. He's where he really is. I'm really excited for him. Good luck to Joe 2 Horny Hayden then. This is actually not related to Joe because I've got full confidence in Joe. What do you make of fighters when they lose a fight and then they instantly leave their current coach trainer set up? We see it very often in boxing. I think it's just looking for an excuse more often than not. Some trainers are useless. That's the truth. Some of them are useless. They should be left. I was harsh on it but it's the truth. I always say to Joe, I'll be the first to tell you when you need to move on. If I can no longer show you anything, or I'm no longer able to give the commitment I am now, then I will tell you to move on. I'll be the first to do that. Even if you lose, it doesn't mean you've got to move on. No, absolutely not. I lost fights and stayed with the trainer at the time. I also moved around a lot as well. I moved when I felt like my progression had stopped at where I was at. That wasn't always the case because sometimes I stayed where I was out of comfort. I'm more for fighters moving trainers because I think you stay in the same place too long. You don't learn enough. I went everywhere. I wasn't big enough or a good enough athlete or whatever else. But I know I'll certainly learn how to box and I'll certainly learn a lot about boxing Look at the trainers I've had. Peter Fiore, Brendan Ingle, Dominic Ingle, Jamie Moore, Darren Barker, Mick Marsden trained a world champion. Kev Sanders trained Nigel Benn. I'm under GB as an amateur. I've picked up loads of experience. People have different arguments for staying one coach or moving around. I'm so glad I went around all these different places and different gyms. I learnt different things from everyone. We actually did a podcast with Jamie Moore and Kerry Kayes yesterday or the day before. Jamie, listening to him, he's so experienced. Obviously, he's been there and done it. When you're responding to a coach, I know you can be a good coach without having boxed. I understand that. But is there a certain point in a fight where you're going to stop listening to them unless they've actually done it? I couldn't work with a trainer that had not boxed before, personally. I think people that have not boxed can have a great understanding of boxing. I think they can even be great trainers, to be honest. But for me, I've been in hard fights. When I go back to the corner, I want someone that's been there and done it. I don't want to go back to someone that has not done it before. Because when someone says, go on, suck it up, you'll get a second wind. If you've never boxed before, I want to say, how the fuck do you know? How do you know? For me, personally, I need to have that respect. I need to have that, like, you've been in this position before kind of thing. Even if it's just one fight, one's enough. It doesn't matter if you have a pro fight, an amateur fight, a charity fight, a white-collar fight. You have that understanding of how hard it is. But by all means, you don't need to have boxed to have a great understanding of boxing. There's a lot of trainers that have great knowledge on boxing and how to teach boxing. But they can't fight themselves. You don't need that. But I personally, Jamie... Jamie's one of my favourite fighters. Yeah, yeah. So, of course, when he said anything to me... For me, it's a respect thing. That's what it comes down to. That can come from fighting or otherwise. Brendan Ingle wasn't a world beater as a boxer. But I respected him as a man. Do you know what I mean? Same with Peter. And then with Jamie and Darren, world-class boxers. It comes down to respect. Same with Brendan Ingle. I respected him as a world-class boxing coach. Again, he had a few fights, but it comes down to respect for me. If I respect you, I will work for you, basically. How would you deal with a moment if one of your fighters... I don't think they do this, but there may come a time when they say, I don't agree with that, or that's wrong. Do you know what I mean? How would you deal with that? Joe and Liam never do that. They would not do that. Because that's not how they are. Joe's like a robot. And me and Liam have a similar relationship to what I probably had with Peter, where you blindly follow what they say out of respect. Calvin, however, will question things and say, why are we doing this? Or maybe not question it in terms of saying, I'm not doing it, but what's this for? What's the reasoning behind this? Not in the sense of I'm not doing it, but what's this for? This is different. But I love that, to be honest. I like that because you should want to know what you're doing. You should be inquisitive. If you're inquisitive, it's a very good attribute to have, I think. It shows that you care. If you want to know the reason behind why you're doing something, great. I'd love to explain it. I love it as well. So when he does ask questions, I don't ever think, what are you doing? I think that's good. If any of them ever said, I'm not doing that, I'd say, fuck off, to be honest. I'd say, go somewhere else. Because I'm a full-time boxing coach with them three. Do you know what I mean? I'm 100% in. But I don't need to be a boxing coach. I have no ambitions of being a world-class boxing coach at all. So if any of them ever turn around and say, look, I'm not happy with this, I'd say, all right, well, crack on then somewhere else. Because it isn't my be-all and end-all. Yeah, fair enough. I don't think they will, though. Because they seem very happy where they are at the minute, don't they? You seem like they have a good, cohesive unit. Well, when I met Joe and Calvin, they'd had two fights between them and lost them both as amateur. Now they're 36-132 between them, amateur and pro. So because there only is them two, Liam, is it a miss, so they get so much time. You know, they get my own divided attention, you know, spiraling down the country. You know, they're a nutritionist even when they're one amateur fight. So that's the difference sometimes. It's the professionalism as well. The top coaches are the most professional ones I've found. And they've got the best kids as well. That's what it comes down to, you know. If you're working like Gordon Ramsay ain't working with a bloody product from Neto, is he? Do you know what I mean? He's using that Waitrose stuff. Do you know what I mean? You're only the best chef if you've got the best food. So you need the best fighters. So that's what it comes down to, to be honest. I know some bad coaches that get given world-class fighters and they're made to look good coaches. Yeah. Neto is a proper Sheffield reference, that. What time have I ever been to Neto's in Sheffield? I think they shut down a while ago. But if you had a Neto bag as a kid, you had no friends. Dave, I saw a video on your channel. I mean, I've not looked at it because I've been so busy recently. And yesterday I was at Jack Massey's wedding. But I've just sort of looked this morning and there's a video on your channel which says something about you responding to accusations of being punch drunk or something like that. I haven't clicked on it yet. Why did you feel it was necessary to do a video like that where you're getting a lot of people putting comments? What was the gist of it? No, not really. It's been something that's been said to me for, like, 10 years. Even when I have, like, 15 fights, amateur and pro, I really honestly believe it's dialecting, like, from where I'm from, how we speak. My YouTube channel, really, I'm covering all sorts of subjects. And that's on subjects I felt, you know what, I'm going to cover it because I've got an audience. So... And I am actually quite an articulate fellow, really. As I've got older and more mature, I like to show that as well now. You know, when I was a kid, I thought, you know what, I don't want to show any kind of form of good education because that's not cool. But as you get older, I think you realise it's cool to be educated. It's quite cool, really. I'm glad now, looking back. So I'm just covering loads of different subjects. Like, that was one of them. I've got one coming out about, like, handling your nerves on fight day, having the bigger kick. I'm just touching on loads of different subjects, really. You know, I get given in ideas all the time. But in terms of punch-up stuff, I'll see it on comments on all kinds of social media outlets. You know, my own Instagram account, I see certain comments on there sometimes. You know, the YouTube comments section, mainly, is where you will see it. And I wouldn't say it bothers me, but sometimes I just think... I feel like they're off the mark, personally. I feel like they're wrong. But, again, I'm open for anyone having whatever... say whatever they want, really. Do you know what I mean? I wouldn't say it bothers me, but I feel like they're wrong, and I just wanted to cover it. Well, on that note, then, firstly, subscribe to Dave's channel. It's the White Rhino Boxing. I think it's called Dave Allen White Rhino Boxing Channel. Basically, type in the white rhino, and you'll see it. And also, get your questions in below, because last time, people sent in about 10 or 15 decent questions. So, get your questions below this video for our next episode with Dave Allen here. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions, Dave, about... Because whilst over the weekend, it seems like there's been a few announcements, or over the week, sorry, a few announcements of some decent fights. So, I'm just going to ask you about a couple of them before we crack on. Now, these are, like, on the Artur Betterbiev Dimitrij Bivol card, which, obviously, is a good card. But there's a few there that have popped up. Now, I'm going to ask you, the one that springs up to mind, which is relevant to you, obviously, is the Fabio Wardley-Fraser-Clark rematch. That's been confirmed for the British title in Saudi Arabia. So, the rematch, what do you reckon? It's finally over the line now. Do you think there's a momentum one way or another? I'm going to move it to big screen, so we can put some graphics on as well. Yeah, I think they deserve that. I think they deserve this big fight over there. You know, the moment they probably get to it, they deserve it. After the first one, it was brilliant. So, I'm happy for them both. The first fight, it seems, forever ago. When was it? It feels like it was ages ago. Oh, man, right, I can tell you because I've got the box rack open now. So, it was in... March. It was January, February, March, yeah. March the 31st. Yeah. For me, I think it comes down to two things. Number one is, how did they come out of the first fight? Because that fight was really hard. And a fight that hard can leave scars, really, you know, mentally. Yeah. Do you really want to go back there again? I had a few fights, Yoko, Bracamonte, and Price, all three of them, where after you sit there and you go, do I really want to go back there again? After I watched Bracamonte, I remember sitting in the changing rooms, I thought, do I want to go back there again? You know? So, that's an important thing, I think. Fraser Clark, more so, he's 33, he's got loads of money in the bank. Will he think, do I need to go back there again? Do I really want to? And the other factor for me is, I think there's more improvement to come out of Wardley, to be honest. He's still so inexperienced. What he's achieved, really, with a handful of white qualifiers, it's unbelievable. And I think that 12 rounds for him will put so much improvement in him. And based mainly on that, I make Wardley a slight favourite. I think there's more improvement in him than Clark. Even though I thought Clark, as the first fight, I'd probably go for Wardley this time around, but it wouldn't be a confident pick. I actually remember speaking to you after that Bracamonte fight. I remember it vividly, because I was like, Dave, what the hell was that like? It was just like a firefight. And you were just kind of a bit blasé about it, but you had a cut, and your face was all mashed up and everything. Those types of fights, how much do they take out of the tank, Dave? Do you notice it in the next sparring session or something like that? Physically, I don't feel diminished, but it's just like a mental thing, really. You sit there, and you've had that fight, and the next fight's announced, and you just think, can I go there again? Do I want to go there again? How I felt. The Bracamonte fight, the most annoying thing that happened was I had cuts on my eyelids. Yeah, yeah. And every time I blinked, they'd reopen and bleed. It was so annoying. They were sticking. It was awful. Yeah, after the fight, when I got back to sparring, it was just a case of, just like a mental block for a little while, to be honest. Same with the Price fight. The Yoko fight, when I boxed Nick Webb, I didn't want to be there because I was petrified of getting a good idea like that again. So, yeah, I really do think it can only take one. The first fight they had was that hard. Very easy to see one of them just going, I don't want to go back there again. What's the worst injury that you felt in the ring as you were boxing? Was it the tongue injury that you had? Was it the, you had a bad one in the Fraser-Clark fight, obviously the David Price, but is there one that sticks out where you thought, oh, I don't know if I need to get back into the store or I don't know if I can get through this? The Price fight, I don't remember it that well, really, the fight. So the injury from the Price fight was the worst one. Yeah. The one that bothered me the most, probably the autism of my tongue, yeah. Yeah, the tongue. That was the most painful injury I've ever had in my life. Yeah. I didn't eat anything solid for like over two weeks. It was awful. Near Christmas as well, I think my first day on boxing day and the fight happened on the 10th. So that was definitely by far the worst. I was swallowing my blood and that as well. It weren't, it weren't. Do you think you've got the best chin or one of the best chins in heavyweight division over the last 10 years? I wouldn't say so. I think I've got an overrated chin and an underrated boxing ability. So you mean you're like riding the punches just at the last minute or you know, you've got that innate inbuilt defense. Yeah. I think my great-granddad apparently was one of the best riders of a punch in the 20s and 30s. Yeah. A boxing historian wrote about it. And I can count on one hand the amount of clean shots I've been hit by as a pro. And people say, well, that's not true. You get hit all the time. Honestly, all T's up court, yoke around in the top of the head. Price couldn't move one shot that I can remember. Apart from that really, of course I've been hit with shots, but talking clean shots, I can count on one hand and that's the honest truth. And I'm not saying, I'm not bullshitting anybody. I can only remember being hit with like proper clean shots like on the chin less than a handful of times. And that's not bad going to say while box really. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I remember all those fights you're talking about. And in fact, Dylan White, that was Leeds. I don't think he landed a clean shot on you earlier, did he? No, because the honest truth is if Dylan White landed a clean shot on my chin, I'd have been knocked out. You know, all T's hit me on the chin, wobbled me. Price hit me with a clean shot. I didn't think Price was a massive puncher to be honest. Yeah, I didn't get hit on the chin. That's why I never got put over. I was very good at not getting hit on the button to be honest. That's what I was good at. You know, have those demons that you mentioned before like after the Bracamonte, after the Price comeback fights, have those demons left you to the point now where you don't have those feelings going in? So if you were to go into another big fight, have they left you sufficiently? When I boxed Fraser Clarke, you know, I had no nerves at all. Not one nerve came over me. I remember Cullen beating Hefferon and they were like right, you're in. Alright, brilliant. I think I was too baller as they were at the qualifier. I thought I was going to beat him easily to the point where I was only half fit and I just thought I was going to beat him easy and after five rounds I thought I'm going to beat him now and then the low blow stuff and I got a bit of a breather and I thought and after another round I was gone. So I was too baller as they were really but in terms of like worrying and stuff not so much now. When it comes down to just me and someone else in the boxing ring even though I'm not a world beater I know I'm not a world beater or a great fighter I don't worry about any of them really because I don't believe there's never a way in the world that could hit me on the could sufficiently hit me on the chin and put me over. To be honest if I'm if I'm fitting on the ball I really don't believe that. Can I win them fights? No I don't think I can but can they knock me out? I don't think so so I don't I don't worry about supply because like I said while I may not be the best and may not be winning them all I don't worry about getting hurt because I'm very very close I think I'm one of the best survivors there is to be honest. Do you have a conversation talking of survival do you have a conversation with The Corner about what the protocol for throwing the towel in or do you allow the person that you trust in The Corner to be experienced enough to make the decision for you? Yeah you know years ago I've always said never ever ever throw the towel in like I remember saying like oh you must never quit and all this but to be honest I take that back every man's got the limit when I botched Price at the end I thought I knew there was something really badly wrong after six seven rounds I kept going kept going and then when it came to a point of like I thought if I don't start now something bad's going to happen I stopped that was my limit there so once someone's had enough they've had enough if any of my boxers are boxing and I've seen they've had enough they'll be out and that's that's as simple as that Fair enough we're disappointed just changing tack we're disappointed that Chris Eubank Jr after the talk on big fights Canellos etc has ended up fighting Kamil Seremeta on this card yeah he's 34 years of age you know he's got the Liam Smith win he should be boxing for a world title or boxing a superstar name I think if you want to be on these cards you've got to be in proper fights so I'm not sure why he's on the card boxing this fella to be honest yeah from what I've heard don't know personally any details it can be from what I've heard difficult to negotiate with do you think as a you know from inside the insider point of view if a fighter's hard to work with do you think that really scuppers their the desire for promoters to go out on a limb and get them these big fights yeah but Eubank I don't think he'd sell a single ticket to be honest I'm not even sure I wouldn't buy pay-per-view to watch him myself I don't know how many would so I'm not sure I don't know is he still a big draw I presume he is still on pay-per-view with Smith but I don't know I just I'm not sure I don't know really I think he's an odd one I think we all just presume yeah of course he's pay-per-view he's a superstar but is he really I'm not sure he is okay yeah fair enough interesting these are all I'm going through some of the fights that are on the undercard here one that really did stick out to me because I know him and like him and I'm I'm assuming you must know him because you're from right around Sheffield but Liam Cameron has got a fight with Ben Whittaker so do you know Liam because obviously you're from the same area I don't know him personally I've met him a couple of times but the Whittaker fight yeah it's interesting really it's interesting because Liam Cameron's good you know yeah good fighter he is a good fighter won the ABA many years ago given them after a good girl last time my only worry is Whittaker's too big Whittaker's big like everywhere you know and Liam Cameron was on about boxing Simpson at super middleweight so if he can still make super middleweight he's going to be way too small for Ben Whittaker it's one of those yeah I mean you know these these cars like this I mean Liam's one of those that has I don't know if you watched any build up to the Linden fight but he was talking about like not you know having boxed for a Commonwealth title for five grand or something he said he might have said that's not a direct quote I'm just off the top of my head so something like this could be life changing and I hope it is life changing money for him it does show you that this as we touched on last time anything can happen now in this new dynamic world I don't know for him it's fantastic it's life changing yeah anyone that gets on these cars it's presumably life changing so yeah you know I don't begrudge anyone getting an opportunity so hopefully it's a good go I feel Whittaker may be just too big for him Wick is an outstanding talent as well to be honest but yeah I don't begrudge anyone getting this opportunity I think it's amazing for all of them hopefully they all get paid well and they all box well yeah I think it's a good show to be honest as well yeah it's a decent fight isn't it especially and it also proves that you know Joe Cordin is coming off the loss to Kakachi as well he's straight back in there so it proves that the boxing format and models changing to the way that boxing fans proper boxing fans want it to be well it's just it comes down to money don't it that's all it is yeah you know he times 100 grand by I don't know 10 15 probably a different night altogether so so yeah if there's money there anyone will box anybody that's the truth I know obviously it's got a mixed reception some people love it some people detest it what's your view on that and showboating in general when you're a prospect coming through the ranks I don't like prospect showboating Naz showboating was amazing he was doing it at world level that's unbelievable if Whitaker showboats all the way up to Batu, BF and BF I'll do it against them I'm a big fan of it if you're doing it against a fellow that's 1-3 out of 20 it's off putting did you watch his fight with Ezra Orenka I watched I watched about two rounds and I turned the telly over so I didn't watch it fair enough but did you see the bit where he got headbutted and elbowed I've seen the highlights so that for me is when I became a fan of Ben Whitaker because he didn't actually he sort of realised that he probably spurred this on from his antics and he just took his medicine he's got something about him go and win an Olympic medal if you haven't I think he's one of the best talents in the country I just think much like Josh Kelly all the talent in the world but probably lacks that physicality to be a world class fighter when you get into a tough spot in a fight do you ever think about using some of the dirty tactics veteran tricks to slow the pace down is there fights where you've utilised those yourself yeah to be honest Fraser Clark did it against me perfectly and that is why a lot of people said to me why weren't you mad at him and all this and I thought you know what we played the game and he beat me playing the game he wanted a breather so he hit me low and he got a few breathers and he played the game and he beat me when I watched Bracamonte in the first round he came out on fire 100mph if you watch the fight after 2 minutes I hit him low and I thought I'm not ready for this warm calm down I hit him low I had a minute slowed him down a bit and then he's into it so of course I think you have to another big big opportunity on this card for Jack Massey obviously it's a big money fight for him I've just been at his wedding yesterday and it was raining it all back because obviously he's got the big fight Jaya Pattaya is legitimate the real deal isn't he so what type of chance does Jack have and is there a way he can go about processing this fight I give him a chance I think he's much better than Zorro and Thompson I don't think they're bad fighters at all I think Zorro and Thompson are good but they didn't have the experience Jack has got Jack has a lot of amateur experience and a lot of pro experience as well now as well the Chamberlain fight I thought was brilliant I thought he fought great I sparred Jack Massey I think he's probably the biggest punching cruiserweight I've sparred and I've sparred Bellew I've sparred Coley and I would say Jack was the biggest puncher out of all of them so Pattaya is a big favourite but I give Jack a puncher's chance he didn't look amazing in his last fight didn't he didn't look amazing I think Bradys is still the second best cruiserweight in the world though even though he's now retired I still would have him beating everyone else apart from Pattaya do you enjoy sparring cruiserweights is that why you're sparring for speed I never enjoyed it I hated it every single time because they are fast it's all about style I sparred Jack for the park fight we sparred once and never came back it's all a style thing Jack Massey suited me because he's a big strong fella basic but very good at being basic that style suits me down to the ground plus I'm a lot bigger than him so I have a lot of success with him do you know what I mean whereas other kids nowhere near as good as Jack Massey are agile good movers and I will struggle with them it's all boxing literally styles it's cliche but styles make the fights and styles make the spars you know it's all about what who suits you fair enough yeah interesting I wanna just switch tack obviously there are some other good fights on the card Sky Nicholson Raven Chapman I'm not missing out on that it's a world title fight certainly not skirting over the girls fight I don't know either of those two boxers very well I don't know if you do I watched Raven's fight a few years ago she's very very good I just think Sky Nicholson at featherweight I don't see anyone beating her I think she's too big and all good and good