Mastering Business Growth & Problem-Solving: Insights from Entrepreneur & Executive Chris Davenport

Hey, what's going on guys. Welcome to this edition of the John Papaloni show. Today we have special guest, Chris Davenport. Chris, welcome to the show. Thanks John. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Absolute pleasure. I am super excited and stoked for this podcast today. And, uh, yeah, so like I want to start off the podcast with a little bit more of a description of who you are, what you do and how you got there. Awesome. Well, I'm a lifelong entrepreneur. I, I actually started my first business when I was around 18 and it was just around tech services. And I didn't know a thing about business. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Uh, but as I was working for different businesses, I started learning things and I really ended up growing a business that got a lot larger than just myself and to, you know, fast forward and skip a few steps, um, ended up growing a business, uh, to, uh, 40 employees to care of thousands of businesses and, uh, in, in the lifespan of that, and I decided to sell that business last year to pursue something new, to help other entrepreneurs, uh, gain freedom from their business. And whether it's just to get some time back or whether it's to plan for an exit, uh, I want to be there to help them, uh, take their lives back. Okay. Uh, so, wow. So what was the first business about? The first business was around help desk or it services. Got it. And, and I really went for that SMB space and looking for, you know, companies that didn't have the staffing or the budget to hire within, and so I would augment their staff sometimes, other times they would have no IT staff. And eventually my, my team, as I grew, we would come in and take care of any tech issue that you could think of, you know, much like, uh, you had an email issue, a problem with your desktop, uh, server crash, those types of things. We would, we would come in and help. Got it. So it's pretty much it support. So I get that. That's a pretty cool. And then you sold that. And what exactly are you doing now? Like, like what's the actual core of business? Like, what would you say is your strongest point? My core business is helping people get what they want out of their business. So a lot of people, uh, are struggling with getting traction and I help them really get their vision lined out to where they can communicate it with their team because, you know, without the vision, the traction is just a hallucination amongst the team that they don't know where the leader's going. They don't know which way to go. And the whole thing tends to fall apart. So I come in, help them get this vision down on paper. And then I implement a set of tools, simple tools in their business that helps them get traction on their vision, really break through the ceiling to that next level. Right. So are you more of a, like, are you a business planner? Is that what you're, cause that's what it sounds like. I'm a business coach, coach, and a planner. So, so because I have to be careful, I don't want to execute for them. I want to give them the tools and teach them how to execute their own vision. Uh, so I'm there as a guide, as a coach and as a facilitator, when things get hot in the room to help them get there. What was the inspiration to make this, uh, this, uh, transition? Like you sold your other business. I'm sure it was, you know, for a good dime. I'm sure you had a pretty good opportunities from there and you could have probably gone anywhere and, uh, you chose this, uh, what was the motivation? John, the real motivation was pain. So my own pain in business and I had a business partner at the time as well. And just speaking for myself, uh, we just got to a point to where we started hitting the ceiling. And I was pulling my hair out and losing sleep. And then that's when, uh, I met someone that told me about something called EOS, which is entrepreneurial operating system is what it stands for. And it's really a, a system that helps businesses implement simple tools, you know, to grow and break through the ceiling. Right. And so we tried that because we were at our wits end. So we implemented EOS and it was a life changer, not even a business changer. It changed how the dynamic was between the work and life balance. So it, it helps me get some of that back and it helps me find the levers and the accountability positions in the company to help it grow to the point to where we could make an exit. Because when, when EOS found us, we were in no shape to sell and no shape whatsoever, just going on, uh, one week at a time. And so really what drove me was, was finding this and implementing it and running on it for five years, totally turning things around and making it to where we were able to, to live a life outside of business, and then we were ultimately able to attract, uh, buyers that wanted to purchase us and, uh, having these systems in place increased our value, increased our multiple. And what propelled me was the personal journey that I took during that time and finding myself and finding that life is not only about business. Uh, life is not only about living and breathing problems all day. Uh, you're doing all of that for a purpose. And that purpose is, is for me personally, my family and enjoying time with them. And it was, it was the ability to get that time back from the business through using these principles that I learned. And I learned them so well that I wanted to teach them to others, to help fellow entrepreneurs that were stuck, that didn't, didn't know a way out because they were so buried in it every day. And so my passion really is helping people and businesses be the best they can be so that they can go pursue other interests of their, in their personal lives. Uh, that's interesting, right? Because like you said, it was a, uh, pain that caused you to do that. It's funny how sometimes, you know, you get into entrepreneurship and, and everyone thinks I have a great idea. I got a great product. I'm just going to launch it and people are going to love it. And just because they put money in advertising or marketing, all of a sudden I'm going to sell out and they get into business and what ends up happening, the polar opposite. And a lot of times it's so hard to continue sometimes because there's times where you think things are going well, you're going to get there. You're excited. And then there's times where that, those challenges come and you're like asking yourself, you know what? I can go work at McDonald's and make more money than this. So why am I here? Why am I doing this? Why am I putting myself through this pain? And, uh, you know, and it's that, that's what separates the true entrepreneurs with, uh, you know, ideas because a lot of people have ideas, but it takes a certain type of personality. Um, some call it crazy, um, to be able to push through these hurdles. I would agree with crazy. And, uh, and there were times where during those periods of, of angst and lack of sleep, we didn't get paid. You know, we didn't, our employees always got paid. We never missed a payroll ever, never had to delay one. Uh, because we looked at our role in the businesses. We have those families to provide for and take care of. So we can't let them down. Uh, so I always made sure that, uh, they were, they were taken care of and most of them had no idea, but at times we weren't even able to pay ourselves. So, and then, so it does take a little bit of crazy, crazy in a positive way. You know, you're so crazy about your passion that you will keep going, uh, no matter what. And that's really what, what drives us, I think. Yeah. Let's be honest. Most people, when they get into business, the, um, really let's be honest. You're most people were very lucky if they get to pay themselves in the first year, even if it's just to cover their bills, you know what I mean? And they're very lucky. Even they get that it's usually a business doesn't start to thrive. If it's going to usually till year three. And that's why they say most businesses close within five years. And, uh, a good portion of them close by the third year, you know, so it doesn't even make it till five. Uh, and if you get past that five year thing, it's pretty much means that you got something going. So that's, that's great. And that's phenomenal. But the other challenge I see you have is because right away you said you had a partner. Yes. Yes, I did. Yeah. Those are very difficult to operate. They are. Yeah. Like, I mean, that comes with a set of challenges and the reason I'm going to ask, you know, get into what I'm getting into now is because so many people start something and they think having partners is great and I'm not saying that having a partner is a bad idea, but it's more of what type of partner, who you're working with matters more than what you're working on, because, uh, I'm going to use a restaurant as an example, right? If you have a restaurant, you need someone in the chef and you need someone at the front with the customers. If everybody wants to be the chef, cause they don't want to talk to customers, that's not going to work. If everybody wants to be at the front, talk to the customers and you have nobody cooking, that's a problem too. So the partnerships that work is where people have their strengths. They work on their strengths and they stay in their lane. Yes. And so just a little bit about my partnership, it's a crazy story. We, uh, we used to be next door neighbors and if people knew when people find this out, they think, gosh, y'all must've been nuts just meeting each other. So we went to, uh, have a drink one day and started talking business and one thing led to another, and I'd say within a year or so we were, we were in business together and he had the sales and marketing components, I had the operations and, and accounting and people components. As far as, you know, you said about the, you can't both be chefs. You have to, somebody has to greet the clients. So that's, that's basically, it was a perfect match and in the beginning, especially because I had up until that point, uh, most of my business was through word of mouth, uh, which is a great way to get clients, my partner, Mark, he was able to, uh, teach me a lot about marketing and people and even bring friends with our competitors, which was crazy to me at first, but, uh, it, it, it all worked out. And of course we had our, our battles, our issues with each other. I would chalk most of that up though, to the stress that we were feeling, you know, from the issues in the business, uh, that as a business grows, things get more complicated and complication always seems to slow things down. And it, it was frustrating. And I think during those times we went, we both individually went through personal growth that helped me see things differently. Whereas before, sometimes we were butting heads, but now looking back and in conversations with him, I just, I just had dinner with him over the You know, the perspective is so much different, uh, because you really have to go through something to grow through something, you know, you have to grow through it and that's really improved our friendship, uh, now, you know, so the dynamic has totally changed, but definitely not short of those issues. And it was challenging at times, but fun, fun at times as well. It's fun to have someone by your side at battle, you know, when things get tough, it's fun to have someone by your side that you can celebrate with that knows exactly, uh, what, what's going on and what it feels like. So, uh, it, it does have its, it's good as well. Right. Which brings up a couple of questions there, right? Because like you said, every partnership has conflict and stuff. How did you guys deal with, you know, confrontation and conflict? Because, uh, it's easy to, uh, you know, jump up and down and, uh, you know, huff and puff and, you know, and that's usually what leads to partnerships breaking up because many times people say things they don't necessarily mean. They say out of the heat of the moment. And sometimes you certain things you say, you can't really take back, even if it was in the heat of the moment. So to avoid that, usually there's gotta be some form of system or process to, you know, to deal with conflict. And it's usually worked out over time because nobody starts the business and says, we're going to have a problem or an argument in six months from now. And this is how we're going to handle it. Usually it starts off with yelling and saying, okay, how do we avoid this next time? John, it couldn't be further from the truth. Uh, so when we started, when we would have, uh, we, we were good for the first couple of years, but I think we were on kind of eggshells learning each other. But as things got difficult, um, him and I both had personal growth that we had to go through. And we definitely, you know, would start yelling and say things we didn't really mean, didn't, didn't want to say in the end, but as we turned each other on to, to different things. So, uh, I turned him on to something called cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT, which is a style of, of therapy that helps you deal with these situations and not say, you know, not to say the things you don't want to say in the, in the longterm. And then he turned me on to some, some other things that, uh, You know, some personal growth seminars that we went to, so we tried to help each other out to grow without saying, Hey, you're broken, you need to go do this. It was more like, Hey, I found this. And it really helped me. I think that you would benefit from it. And so we did that kind of on our own. And then to, to add in, to slip into the EOS, uh, piece of it, there's a tool in EOS called, uh, uh, same page meeting. So what you, what you want to do with the partners or what the executives is make sure that you have a same page meeting on a regular basis. So Mark and I met monthly, almost all the time. Sometimes we have missed, but, uh, it really helped to clear the air and set expectations, get back on the same page. And that was like insurance for future arguments. So if we just did that one thing, communication is crazy. If that sounds, we hear that all the time, right? Yeah. So just communicating and getting ahead of it and saying, Hey, this is coming. Or, Hey, I would like to try this. What do you think? And work through it instead of, you know, something that surprise comes up or you go to try something new and you don't tell your partner about it, which is, which is never good. Um, so that really transformed our relationship to, you know, to, to be a much healthier, because it's, it is like a marriage it's as close to a marriage as I can, you know, say that's the, the closest essence of a partnership that I can relate to. So, yeah, absolutely. And that's what people tend to forget, right? It's things on the surface look simple, but when you're in the heat of it, it's not really necessarily that easy. And it's amazing how you guys are willing to work with each other that way and how, you know, take suggestions. Cause not everybody's coachable for a lack of better description. So sometimes those suggestions can come out of offensive. Now I'm not going to lie at a certain point in my life, if we were working in business together and you made some of those suggestions, I'd be flying off the handle and later in life, I, I, you know, I learned better, but there's a difference between the 20 something year old me and the 40 something year old me. That's true. I can, I can relate to that. I would say that what I've learned and this did, I wished I knew this in my twenties, but what I've learned is you have to meet people where they are. So even with coaching businesses, none of them are in the same place. And even when I went through training for EOS, it appears in the training as if this is the way, this is the way for everybody. Really? It's merely a suggestion because everybody's in a different spot. And at some point, I think that Mark and I both learned that about each other, that we, we both knew that, that the other was coming from a good place. And so the level of trust, and this is something I also teach my teams is trust is, is huge in a team. And each time we meet, we're building trust. And I think if Mark and I didn't have a certain, you know, good level of trust for each other it would have, those things that you're talking about, the suggestions would have been like a slap in the face. So I think because we had that trust level and because we'd been through battle with each other, you know, in business, you know, the things were, it was okay to say the weird thing, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And which brings up the other point I want to touch upon that I've been holding on to is that you brought up something that, even now I'm still having trouble adapting. And with that is, is that, I call it collaboration, right. And like, you know, when you said you, uh, you know, ended up meeting your competitors and becoming friends with them and stuff right now, I've always been friends with my competitors to be clear, but I've always thought of it as competition, so it's me versus you. And, you know what I mean? After work hours, let's grab some beer, shoot the shit, you know, high fives and whatever, and, you know, like, you know, best of buddies, but, uh, you know, during work hours, when we're competing, you know, it's game on. And I realized later on in life that you're way better off collaborating with them and sharing the business. Cause you actually end up getting more than trying to compete with each other and having it as a race to the bottom. That's right. Then you are. Yeah. But it took me a long time to learn that. And even, even when you learn it, it is so hard to implement it. It, it is. And I think that in some of my personal development training, I think it's hard because it goes against a core belief that we learned at some point during our childhood and it goes against that. Well, this is, this is my side, or this is on, on my team. And the other team is who I'm against, but you know, being, taking sports into consideration here. Have you ever seen where, you know, there's, there's footballers out on the, on the field and they're playing and there's a tackle and an opposite team member helps the other team member up. That's been tackled. It's true. You know, it's much like that. So yes, there is a game to win and we're all about winning, but sometimes you just have to remember, Hey, we're, we're playing the same sport here. We have the same passions. We have the same customers, the same demographic, psychographic. There's so much to relate on and there's so much green field out there to go after. And so just to take our last business and to, to account, there's so many businesses that need IT support services. And it's, it's crazy to have this scarcity mindset that's really limiting yourself and your company versus an, an abundance mindset where there's enough for everybody and let's, let's rise the boats together and make this a better, you know, what, whatever environment or, or niche that you're in. Let's, let's, let's raise the boats for everybody. Yeah, you got that right. It's look, even as an example, right? Like even in the business, I mean, now I have, uh, I'm friends with, uh, you know, some of my competitors and one of them, uh, you know, brought up a point and he say, you know, to one of my products without mentioning what he mentioned it and says, the price point you're at, you're going to have more problems than you realize, especially come winter time. And I thought about that and he gave me the stuff he went through and explained certain things. And I thought, you know what, you're right. Come September, I'm raising the price on that, not raising it on everything else, just that one product. And my point is that's a competitive, tell me I could have turned around and says, oh, he's just mad that I'm lower. And it's going to bring the price down, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, no. I looked at that. It's collaboration, right? Like, like, you know, that was a suggestion with good reason. And that good reason may, it made sense. And you know what? It was logical. That's what it comes down to. It was logical, but that came from a competitor, technically speaking. That's awesome. That's that's, you know, and I think that we, it took me seeing things like that to really learn this from, from him, from Mark, that we would get in a room at different conferences with our competitors. And some of them would still be very standoffish, but because, you know, the more charismatic you are, you get them to open up and they start to feel less threatened. And then there's others that are already there that are willing to share and want, want to help the community. And it's just some awesome things were learned in those situations. Absolutely. It's like you said, the truth of the matter is there's an abundance of, of out there. It's not, it's not a scarcity. We're taught to think that there's a limited amounts of everything. And I mean, to dig into that even more, I mean, yes, as an example, Canada has 40 million people. So even if I were to sell my product to every single person in Canada, while I'm capped at 40 million, but the truth of the matter is I am one person. If I were to deal with 15 people a week, I would probably be capped by my own resources. So I shouldn't be worried about 40 million people. And it's the truth. And then the term is, oh, there's not enough for everybody, but the matter is you can give people advice. You can teach people how to build businesses and the a hundred people you teach 99 of them will just say, that's great. Wonderful. That's the best information I ever heard and never do any of it. So reality is you only have that one, maybe two people that are going to enter the market. And with 40 million people and only two other people competing, that may gives you three people. Chances are in that level, there's an abundant amount because there's more people than you can serve. That's, that's true. And I would say our struggle in business at times was we would take on business and then struggle to, to, you know, serve the clients effectively. So we had to rapidly grow and try and find the right people to, uh, you know, to meet that, that demand. So the capacity is definitely more limiting than the abundance out there. And it's just funny, just, just listening to what you're saying and talking about your, your competitor and the amount of times that there were probably five of us in, in the Houston, Texas market where our home base was five, uh, including us five different it companies and a number of times we would trade back and forth. Clients, some of the client would say, I'm going to make a change. I'm going to this company. And then, then the same week, another, one of their clients would come our way when their contract was out. So it was just, it was, it was almost, uh, a little bit of comedy there, you know, not that you want to lose the client, but it's like, Oh, we're just straight trading clients here, you know? And, and, uh, so when we, it was very, very friendly, uh, when we go do handoffs and things, and it was just, it was, it was interesting to see that. Absolutely. It's like, I'm leaving back in six months or is it going to be seven? You can't say it directly. It's it's what it is. Oh man. Yeah. So moving on now with that, obviously that, that business worked, moving on, you're into what you're doing now. What would you say throughout this process, selling your, the old business and starting this business, what was the challenge you find with the transition? The, I had a couple and one really hit me that I wasn't prepared for. I went from having a business partner and I, I had a team of 40 employees and this new business is just, it's just me. I have, uh, my wife is my support partner in the business, but it's just, you know, a couple hours here and there. And, but it's, it's just me alone sitting in every seat in the business. And when I'm in the session room with a, with a team, that's where I love. That's what I love to do. If I could do it every day, I would. And at some point I will, but filling up the practice, you know, takes time because you've got to, you know, go out there and network, not as an IT company, but now say, okay, here, I'm Chris, this is what I do now. And it's really takes a shift in mindset of, I don't have a team behind me. Now I'm doing all of that on my own. And so it gets, it gets lonely sometimes, you know? And so that the, the partnership piece there that the relationship is, is something that I miss. But when I'm in session with, with clients that, you know, seeing those teams work and, and we have a ton of fun in there so that kind of, that's a reward in place of that, but I'd say that's the biggest challenge was not having that team that, that I've, you know, we built it over 10 years. I was so used to having them and we had very low turnover. So a lot of, a lot of familiar faces are, you know, not, not with me on a daily basis anymore. Right. A change of environment change is always difficult. And that's why a lot of times people don't do what they should be doing because it requires a lot of discomfort. Yep. That's true. And it was some discomfort and changing, although it was, you know, it's always a positive thing to sell a successful business. And, you know, the ultimate goal of most all business owners is to have a successful exit, make some money, uh, for all of the sweat for the last, how many, every year is there in business, but what you don't realize is you're going to miss it when, when it's sold. So, um, but it, I would, I would not change anything. It's just a, an adjustment, I would say. Totally makes sense. So you're in the business of coaching, which is really basically indirectly telling you're advising people what they should and shouldn't do to a point. I mean, obviously you, you present strategies and options and it's up to them what they're going to take or not take, but you must get resistance from this. Correct. So I, I, I think I get resistance mostly in businesses that come to me and the, the pre-sales or the sales process, they want, they've heard about it. They want to do it, but they get in there and they there's always not, not always, but when, when we do have objections, someone in the room says, no, we can figure this out and then someone else in the room says, well, we haven't figured it out yet, you know, so I would say that's the biggest pushback there. Then I would say to get past that, it's just a reminder, Hey, you know, there's no pressure for me. So it's, you know, if you do it now, you're saving yourself time and anguish later. You may figure it out, but it could take you five years versus implementing something that's proven that, that works. It saves a ton of time, gets you there faster. Now in the session room, when I'm with executives and owners, there is pushback, but typically it's amongst themselves, you know, they're, they're pushing because I'm there to guide them to the right answer. I'm there to, from a pragmatic, principles saying, Hey, asking them questions about things to get them to think versus giving them the answer. Because the answer is always in the room. And if I give them the answer, then they're, they're going to use me as a crutch when they go back to their office to, you know, conduct business. Right. And that's, that's not what I'm after. I want to enable them to do this themselves. So that's, that's where I'm teaching. And then I'm coaching them, guiding them in the right direction by having them put in the reps and asking the right questions to get them to think of the answer themselves. So the majority of the pushback in the room is between the team members themselves. And that's where I have to be a good facilitator because I don't want someone attacking someone else, or I don't want someone taking all the time up out of the room, sucking all the air out of the room. So others aren't heard. And that's where, where I come in and facilitation. Makes sense. Then you always have the group of people that are, you know, things get sour. All of a sudden people, I need help. They get the help and you get the, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. No, I can't do that. Yes. And then, uh, when you get those, it's like, they don't really want help. They want the end. They want the solution handed to them already done and packaged. And really that's not the way it works. You got to put in the work. That's that's right. And I have had clients like that and where they come in for a couple of meetings, they feel like they've received what they needed and then they just disappear. Uh, sometimes they come back around and say, Oh, you know, we really need to start back up again because it wasn't, you know, it's kind of like a half baked cake, maybe cut into the edge, maybe it's done, but as you get into it, it's, it's, it's raw and still need some time. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. So who, what would your avatar look like? I mean, cause there's always a group of people that work well for you and there's a group of people that don't work well and it doesn't necessarily mean because it's the individual person. It could just be, you know, maybe they're in a different industry, wrong industry. Maybe there's something that doesn't mesh could be any sort of reason that necessarily, you know, not necessarily, you know, something, uh, malicious or wrong or, or, uh, you know, whatever. Right. It's just not, everyone's meant to work with each other. We all have a certain avatar of who we cater to. Some people call it niche marketing. Some people, uh, you know, it's all different. And, uh, and again, if, if the person who tries to help everybody tends to help nobody. So what would that avatar be for you? That's a, that's a great question. And, and this is actually part of something that I teach about developing a marketing strategy. And mine is the demographic is I'm looking for entrepreneurs and executives, business owners, uh, that are willing to grow that are okay with change. And they're more afraid of the status quo. So they're, they're looking to, to get traction on something more than they have today. Uh, they also are entrepreneurial in spirit. So they're, they're business minded. They're not, they're not employee minded. And they, they have the challenges that some of them we've talked about today where they're hitting the ceiling, they're pulling their hair out. Uh, they have those 2am nightmarish moments where they wake up and there's something that they're worried about in their business, you know, sometimes it's like, I don't know how I'm going to make payroll, uh, on the flip side. There's also businesses that, Hey, we've had some growth. We're, we kind of know how we got here, but we're stuck and we want to grow more. You know, they've seen success and they want to go further with it. So that's, that's the, the psychographic and demographic of, of the avatar of who I like to work with. And so I guess the, the antithesis of that would be, you know, someone who thinks their business is fine, they don't want to grow, maybe their revenues are flat year over year and they're happy. Um, and that's someone who would say, well, why do I need this? I'm content. Uh, so that's, that's kind of the opposite of what I'm looking for. Right. Makes sense. Awesome. What would you say to that person who's working a nine to five job and it's not really wanting to be there. Like they have an idea, they have a thought, um, they're excited about their passion or hobby or idea or whichever, but they're really scared. Um, and maybe that's, what's holding them back. It can be other reasons. Now I'll really usually it's because people are afraid they're afraid of the, what it's right. And then people just say, I don't have enough money. Oh, I got a family support or I got debt, or I don't know if it's going to work. Those are the excuses. It's usually based around fear. Um, what would you say to that person? Like, what would your advice be? I would say if you have a passion that you think, you know, you can get traction on, remember, you are not the only person in the world. I think that we, we tend to internalize this. This is mine. I have to do all of this on my own. Go out there and find your people, find whoever your people are. I guarantee you there's some sort of, you know, uh, event or group or, you know, whether it be a virtual or in-person tour, you can meet people that are similar to you. And as we talked earlier about, you know, competitors helping each other, this is similar, uh, but have the get, get involved in whatever that community is that, that you see an opportunity in and take it as far as you can as a side hustle, you know, because it's not what you do nine to five that, that gets you rich. It's what you do between 5 PM and 9 AM. And so I would, that, that will help you, your fears come down because you will see other people in different phases of doing what you want to do. And even if your idea is so unique, pick something as close as you can find, go meet those people, network with them and get involved in that community. And you'll feel at home and your, your anxieties will, will start to go down and you'll get, get the connections. Things will happen. And that's, that's where you get traction on an idea. Love that. I'm going to, now the question I have is in terms of, uh, in terms of marketing, right, like one of the premise I have out there is that most people want to, you know, deal with people they know, like, and trust it's, uh, you know, gone are the days where you open up a retail store, put a big sign on the window that says 50% off and then triple up on staff because you're gonna have a lineup around the building, right? So those are gone these days. People want to deal with people they know, like, and trust, but that relationship is built differently. Now, when you started your other business, you said yours was done word of mouth. Your partner was more into the marketing end, but at the end, when you're using the marketing side, you're still trying to build that, you know, no, like, and trust thing. So my question is for that new entrepreneur who's starting out, how, what should they do to begin with their business? Like how would they start out and then what, how would they build out their marketing from there? They would need to position themselves in whatever niche that they're in as an expert, and you can do that through writing a blog, writing different, even just doing these days, Instagram, Tik TOK, LinkedIn posts, uh, you know, more so if it's business to business, not so much Tik TOK and Instagram, but assuming it's, it's, let's say it's business to, to consumer, get on those platforms, start to build credibility in, Hey, I know what I'm doing and here's the, here's the proof, um, not necessarily saying that, but that's what the content will say when you go to market, you know, there's, there's several different ways you can, you know, do Google ads. Uh, you can do different ads on these different platforms and make sure within there, you're picking the right keywords, the right demographics and the right psychographics, because some of them have the option of pick, Hey, I want to see, uh, I want to be shown to people who are looking for home services, for example, and really just make sure that you're getting traction that way. And then what is huge, what was huge for us is getting testimonials. And so testimonials get, get clients that you have that are happy, that are evangelical about you, have them do a testimonial, see if you can video film it, uh, if they won't do that, see if they could write one, um, and, and that really reading and seeing that someone else is happy with you and what you've done, uh, goes a long way to build that trust. All right, Chris, I'm going to get into a couple more questions before I go into what I call the lightning round, which is going to be just a few fun questions. All right. Second, last question's going to be, how do you know you've had a successful day? What I like to do is I build a list the day before of the things that I need to accomplish. And if I've, if I've accomplished the, the top three things on that list, I've had a successful day. And so I build my list for the next day. And you know, my, my list consists of making phone calls to, to prospects or people I network with, um, could also be some learning to, to keep sharpening my tools. Uh, but those that's really how I determine success there. Fantastic. All right. Last question before the lightning round is going to be for anybody watching or listening and, uh, wants to know how to reach you. Where would they go? I have a website it's www.chd2.com. And I'm also on Instagram at, at Chris HD too. Perfect. Awesome. Let's get into the lightning round with question. Number one is going to be what is your favorite food and why? Oh, it's gotta be a steak. I just, I love protein. I love the way it tastes and just, it makes you feel comfortable and full after. Absolutely. All right. Favorite travel destination. And why? I like to go to Turks and Caicos because it looks like you're in a swimming pool that God made. It's just, it's blue and it feels like it shouldn't be here, but it is. That's awesome. All right. Um, third question is going to be favorite book and or podcast. I would say my favorite book right now is by Chris Voss. Never split the difference. Yeah. Great book. Love that one. Awesome. Last but not least is going to be if you were given unlimited amount of money, but only 48 hours to spend it, what you spend, you get to keep what you don't spend gets taken away. What would you do? That's a, that's a tough one, but I, one of my, one of my hobbies is to do investing, so I would invest it all in different stocks and pre IPO opportunities. Uh, I know that's may, may not be exciting, but I would do that to grow it and where I could do something else with it later. All right, Chris, I want to say thank you so much for being on the show. John, it was a pleasure. It's great meeting you today. It's fun, fun chat. You too. Thanks, man. If you like what you saw and you want to see some more subscribe to the link below. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the John Papaloni show.