Celebration of Women’s Equality Day 2024

screen right now that we are recording. If you have any questions or you're having any technical difficulties, please go ahead and reach out to us in the chat. We will be monitoring it. Also today, towards the end of our program, we will have an opportunity for Q&A. At that time, you may enable your camera and your microphone if you'd like to, or you can go ahead and type your questions in the chat. If you have some pressing questions throughout the discussion, please go ahead and type them in the chat and we will read them out when it's time for our Q&A portion of the program. With that being said, I would like to welcome Joyce Long. She is a Federal Employed Women, Women of Commerce chapter, newly elected president. She will be doing our welcoming remarks and welcoming our guests today. Thank you, Laura. I really appreciate everyone who's joined us today and it is a great honor to be able to bring this to you. As Laura mentioned, my name is Joyce Long. I work in the Department of Commerce headquarters building as part of the Office of Facilities and Environmental Quality, but I'm coming to you today as the new president of Federally Employed Women, FEW for short, and that is a national organization that has been advocating for women's rights for over 100 years. Since joining FEW, I have found that both my day-to-day work and my personal professional development have been really enhanced by the relationships I've developed through people that I'm meeting through events like this and our regular monthly meetings, and FEW offers benefits at both the chapter, regional, and national member. So I would encourage any of you who are interested or inspired by today's discussion to look into joining either the Women of Commerce chapter or another chapter specific to your Bureau. And so for today's event, we are partnering with the DOC Office of Civil Rights to commemorate Women's Equality Day. This date is August 26th and it was established in 1970 to remember the ratification of the 19th Amendment. It's kind of interesting to go back and look at that amendment, which is awfully simple. I'm paraphrasing, just it's one sentence. It says it proclaims the right of citizens to vote shall not be denied on account of sex. And that's something that it took decades to get in place, and it took place in 1920, and even today we're still working with that goal in mind. And we've made huge leaps and bounds, but we're still not quite there. As kind of no surprise, the U.S. population is about half men and half women. Here at the Department of Commerce, women only occupy about 44% of the permanent federal staff. And then when we look at senior leadership, that percentage drops off a bit. The Office of Civil Rights and other Department of Commerce offices have recognized that and have actively worked over the past few years to put together strategic plans and information to help all employees develop at all levels. And this program is a result of some of that work towards making sure that we recognize our women leaders and that we are promoting all of those opportunities for people in accordance with their potential. So one last thing before I turn it over to Victoria Tucker, who is our FEW program director, to specifically introduce our participants, is that here they are in front of you with their photos and the correct names. We just embarrassingly had some mix-ups along the way. We so appreciate Lori, Karen, and Allison working with us today, and we wanted to just say thank you for being part of this event. So Victoria, with that, if you wanted to move into the panelist portion. Good afternoon. Thank you so much, Joyce, for that warm introduction. And thank you all for joining us today as we commemorate Women's Equality Day. I am Victoria Tucker. I am the department student and recent graduate program manager in the Office of Talent Strategy and the Office of Human Resource Management. I also serve as the program chair for the Federally Employed Women, Women of Commerce Chapter Employee Resource Group here at ACHB. Today I have the privilege to serve as the moderator for this special panel event, A Woman's Work, a conversation that will showcase the journey of three extraordinary female leaders in the federal workforce. It is my honor to introduce to you Karen Nees-Vogel, Lori Monk, and Allison Wise. Ms. Karen Nees-Vogel serves at the Department of Offices of Exporter Services and the Department of Commerce's Bureau of Industry and Security, better known as BIS. Through its offices in Washington, D.C., Irvine, California, and Santa Clara, California, the OXS office is responsible for the Bureau of Industry and Security's outreach, education, compliance activities. Karen has a B.A. in the International Studies from Kenya College and an M.A. in International Policy Studies from the Middlebury Institute of International Studies in Monterey, and a recipient of the Department of Commerce's Gold, Silver, and Bronze medals, and a member of the Senior Executive Services. Ms. Lori Monk is Acting Chief Administrator and Human Capital Executive with a distinguished career spanning over three decades in public service. Currently serving as the International Trade Administration Senior Advisor to the Chief Financial and Administrative Officer and Deputy Undersecretary, Lori serves a pivotal role in shaping and executing human resources strategies that drive organizational success. Her expertise in the areas of succession planning, talent management, and organizational and performance management. She holds a degree in business administration with a concentration in management from Strayer University. Additionally, she is a certified web development professional, reflecting her ability and willingness to embrace emerging technologies. And last but not least, Ms. Allison Wise is currently the Deputy Director of the Office of Minority and Women Inclusion at the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Ms. Wise is a Senior Manager providing direction in developing, implementing, and monitoring programs and initiatives related to maintaining workforce diversity, cultivating workplace inclusion, promoting supplier diversity, and the SEC's business activities, and ensuring compliance with federal laws related to financially regulated entities. Ms. Allison is a career public service servant whose commitment and passion towards building and sustaining effective diversity, equity, and inclusion programs over the past 25 years is evident in her active participation in the DEIA community. Ms. Wise holds a Bachelor's of Arts in Finance from the University of Maryland, Robert H. Smith School of Business and Executive Certifications in Strategic Diversity and Inclusion Management from both Georgetown University and the Harvard Kennedy School. Ladies, welcome, and thank you for joining us today. All right. Well, without further ado, we will jump right into today's panel discussion. I think we have a hand raised, I can see some things. Want to pause for a second? Okay. Well, again, ladies, feel free to come off camera, and we will jump into today's discussion. Good afternoon, Lori. How are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. Great, great, great. And good afternoon, Ms. Allison and Ms. Karen. Good afternoon. Hello, Victoria. How are you ladies doing? Fantastic. Awesome. Great, great, great. Well, I know I'm eager to hear your stories and your journeys and to learn from you all. So again, thank you so much for joining us today, and we will jump right into the first question of today. So the first question that we have is, how did your career progress into your current leadership role? And if we want to go from maybe the order of the pictures, I guess, so we would go with Ms. Karen and then Ms. Lori and then Ms. Allison. All right, that works for me. So hi, everyone. Good afternoon. Again, I'm Karen from BIS. And again, thanks so much for inviting me to join this event today. It's really a privilege, and I appreciate it. So I started working for BIS 26 years ago, and I was working as a my first job because the countries that I was focusing on, like Syria, Libya, Iraq, were fascinating. And there was a lot of ongoing change, even since then. And since then, I've moved around quite a bit, all within the Bureau of Industry and Liberty. And I've worked on a lot of different issues in four different offices. I mean, I've worked on defense industrial base issues. I've worked on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States. I've worked on administering prescribed parties lists and a number of other things as well, before I took on my current role 10 years ago. And I would say that one of the key advantages in my career path has been the fact that I've moved around so much, even though it's within one U.S. government bureau, the fact that I have done a lot of different things and taken on challenges that certainly have taken me outside of my comfort zone, have been really helpful, if not the moment, maybe painful at the moment, but in the long run have been very helpful in leading me to where I am today. So I'll stop there and let the others chime in. Okay, I think I'm next. Please keep me to task. So it's great that you started with this question, because I used to be ashamed of my career progression story, and I'm gonna tell you why. So I wasn't, I was never selected for an intern program. I didn't accumulate multiple degrees. In fact, I entered the federal government in 1988 as a GS-2. So doing the math, that's 36 years this year. I hit every grade except the GS-10. So throughout my federal career, I could count on one hand the number of women senior executives that worked at my agency. And oh, by the way, 34 of those years was with the Department of Defense. So but of those five women that I could count on, only one was African American. So that's the spark that I think I needed to solidify the commitment to myself that this is where I wanted to be, you know, eventually. So I noticed how she carried herself, you know, I saw the respect that she was given from her peers. She also seemed very approachable. So I contacted her office one day and I said, Hey, you know, can I shadow you? I want to hear your story. She shared her journey with me. And she said something just as simple as, if I can do it, you can do it. So I started taking notes, you know, not so much about the meetings that I was going to her, you know, going with her, but just her subtle cues, like the way she dressed, the way she commanded a room, the way she would grab the attention of others, just simply the way she operated. She was the role model that I looked up to. And that's when I knew I wanted to be in a leadership position. And since 2020, I've been a senior executive. Well, I can really relate to that story, Laurie, because your story is a lot like mine. And so thank you. Thank you, Victoria, for the opportunity to speak to the participants today. And I'm really honored to be part of this esteemed panel of successful women. And so my career also started in 88. I don't know, Laurie, if you took the civil service exam, but I know I did. And that's very different for public service entering today. But over 30 years ago, as well, I began my career in public service. And it's been quite the journey since then. But it all started with the dream and determination, really, for me. I came from a background where higher education wasn't always within my reach either, Laurie. So I'm proud to say that I am first generation college graduate. I don't have all the degrees behind my name, but I really had to work and go to college. So that's really my story. And doing that simultaneously, balancing my studies with my job. And my degree is in business and finance. And back then, I actually thought I was going to be a licensed stockbroker or an investment banker. I was like, I'm definitely not going to be working in the federal government. This is just something to kind of get me through until I graduate. But as I pursued those paths, I realized something was missing for me. And there were, there was, you know, many individuals, there weren't very many individuals, actually, who looked like me. And in this career path of in the financial services industry. So as a result, I didn't feel like I truly belonged. And it was a tough realization for me at the time. And ultimately, it led me down a different path, one that was more aligned closely with my values and my passions. And I had a supervisor at the time who asked me, you know, how's your interviews going? Because she knew I was graduating. And I said, it's actually not really going very well, you know, and I shared with her. And it was at that moment that she saw something in me that I really didn't see in myself. And she asked me, if I would really consider staying that she noticed that I really had a passion, I was working in an EEO and diversity office at the time. And she noticed how I really had a passion for diversity, equity and inclusion. It wasn't an easy decision, because I'd gone to school for so long in finance, but it was the right one for me. And I wanted really so desperately to make a decision and make a difference really to create a workspace or even just spaces where everyone felt valued and included something that I didn't have when I was kind of coming through my process, my career journey. And, you know, basically just really now, I think is like a really a full circle moment for me and working at the Securities and Exchange Commission, it feels like a full circle for me, because it combines both of my passions now. I didn't really see this. But as the deputy chief diversity officer, I had the incredible opportunity to create diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging for minorities and women. Something that really I didn't experience when I was fresh out of college. But my job really involves raising awareness about inclusion for the financial services industry and ensuring that everyone really has a seat at the table. It's not always easy. As people may know about, really, the financial services industry is very male dominated. But it's incredibly rewarding work. And doing that every day really motivates me. So ultimately, followed my passion. And even though where I was started is not where I ended in just was encouraged by a supervisor who really invested in me. That's very profound. That's really great information. And thank you both. Thank you all three of you for sharing it. To summarize the amount of service, the length of service that you all share collectively, is amazing in itself, I would have never imagined you all would have 25 30 plus years in the federal service. You look amazing. So thank you for that. And I too, am a first generation professional. And I would like to know, like, what are the what are the biggest challenges that you all have faced throughout your career? Do I start again? Sure. Perfectly fine. Okay, everybody else that works for me. So I guess the first thing I would say, and this is true, but you know, I say this very much with my tongue early, firmly in my cheek. But I would expect that maybe some of the people had a similar experience when I first started working at BIS. No, our kind of our bread and butter is export controls. And when I, I remember going in for my interview, and talking to the woman who became my first supervisor, she was telling me about export controls. And I thought, I really don't know what she's talking about. Right. And, you know, so I think that's, you know, probably true in other areas of the federal government as well. You know, there are offices doing that the majority of the it was pretty steep learning curve. Now, that was a number of years ago. And I think things have changed for the better. I mean, nothing for no other reason. There's a lot more resources that are readily available for new employees or even for job candidates before they before they go to interview or when they're starting their job. But that was a challenge. And I've certainly taken on other jobs since that first job, as I as I just mentioned. That were new and challenging and in quite a lot of learning, but I think the first time was was the toughest. I would also say that since becoming a supervisor, and perhaps even more so since becoming an office director, I had to find a balance, I continue to try to find that balance, you know, between being available to my employees and and being and, you know, I really what I'm saying is that I want to get along with my employees. I want to hear about their challenges. I want to hear about their accomplishments. But I also know that there I need to maintain a line, right? Because there is a certain relationship there that I need, we need to be respectful of each other. And, and, and, excuse me, I think it's part of my job as a supervisor to do everything I can to make sure that all everyone who's on my team, you know, feels respected, and feels heard, and doesn't feel any pressure in terms of their individual boundaries. And this is challenging, because everybody's different. And everybody, I think, many people have a slightly different idea of how to going about and accomplishing that task. And also, because in the office, especially in an office that's that has a lot to do, like I'm sure most or not all the offices, everyone attending here today, it's very easy to lose focus on anything other than the day to day tasks and getting that mission done. Right. So this is really a continuing work in progress. It's really important. I think it's essential. But it's something that requires, at the very least regular attention, and something that I, I need to remind myself to remain aware of. Thanks. Thank you for that. So for me, I think some of the biggest challenges was building a network of women professionals. So you know, you learn really fast, at least I did, that it's not easy as just walking up to someone and starting a conversation. Because believe it or not, not everyone is open to sharing. And I'm just going to put it out there. People keep things close to the vest, you know, they feel intimidated, they feel like you want their job, when you just want to want to learn, you know, hey, what are some of the things that you did to get to where you are? Maybe you can impart some of that wisdom. So that was one of the challenges that I know that I faced. Another challenge is incredibly frustrating is dealing with unconscious bias. I mean, we all we all deal with it, you know, we can come across as assertive, you know, we're supposed to be nurturing and collaborative. But if you come across assertive, and confident, you're considered bossy. I actually in another position in a prior position, I learned later that behind the scenes, my staff used to refer to me as the warden. And I laugh about it now. Because I get it, you know, because at the time, I had to really make some tough decisions. And I had to hold people accountable. And when you're in a position of leadership, just like my counterpart said, you, you find yourself in a position where you have to draw that line. And just because you know, you can be friendly, you still have a job to do. So I carry that moniker with distinction. I'm okay with being bossy. You know, that means that's just who I am. That's good to know. Yeah, I think one of my biggest challenges, and I still kind of am challenged by this sometimes now, has been really imposter syndrome. And, you know, there's just been times when that self doubt would creep in. And particularly because I was working in a very male dominated environment. And I would get anxious sort of feelings and not, I felt like I wasn't experiencing internal success, even though, despite what I was seeing, and, you know, being high performing externally, I didn't always feel that and invalidate myself. So early on, I would feel that I was not competent or intelligent, as others might think. And just overcoming that imposter syndrome and trust in my own abilities has been a significant part of my journey. And a lot of that just comes from also surrounding myself with other very competent women who would really I could model them and I could also have trusted conversations with them. And I think I too, you know, have through throughout my career have been experienced a form of bias as well. For me, I think I've been told, Oh, well, she's such an emotional leader, or she, you know, getting getting my passion confused with my competence and, and the way I show up. And I think that a lot of times women always have to carry this extra layer of sort of holding back sometimes, because we're, we're always perceived with different stereotypes, you know, a man could do the same thing and, and not be perceived the same way. Thus, the label of being an emotional leader, not just one who shows up and is very passionate about what they do, and is competent. So in that way, I too have, you know, been challenged by showing up in my authentic self. Okay. Okay. Thank you for that insight into transparency. Yes. I just add one. Absolutely. Absolutely. I remember a couple years ago, there were a number of years ago, there was something going around the internet where it was, you know, the message was along the lines of, you know, I want every who has been called bossy to understand that she has leadership skills. Right? I like that. I really I remember. Yes. Yes. Right. Because that's right there. Right. And I just wanted also to say that I really echo what Allison and Lori have said, in terms of like, finding their true selves. And also a little bit to what I was saying before about the balance. I mean, I'm very much kind of naturally a people pleaser. And through my career, I've had to learn to temper that. I still want people to be happy. I want them to be challenged. But, you know, I know that I can't please everybody. And also, I have high expectations of myself and of my team. So trying to keep all of those on path and, you know, at the same time, you know, keeping morale and getting work done has been challenging. Okay, thank you for thank you for that additional insight, Ms. Karen. And I think I can speak for the majority of the people, especially those who are like myself, walking that path, potentially to a leadership role. And so your transparency and your vulnerability, your vulnerability is really helpful for all of us to know that, you know, what we are struggling with and the challenges that we are currently facing in our career, you to either have or are still currently facing those different challenges. And so I'm curious to know, how has women advancement over the course of your career, right? How has that been beneficial to you both personally and professionally, especially when you speak on, you know, imposter syndrome, and again, you know, the unconscious bias and the different stereotypes that have kind of changed and or been addressed over the course of your career? Yeah, I can jump in. I really believe that many of the advancements that I've seen over the years have had a profound impact on my life. And I'd have to say both professionally and personally. When I think back to 1988, when I first started and where I am now, even in in, not just in my career field, but in the in the one that I'm most invested in, which is the financial services industry, I think that we've come a long way, but we have a long way to go to still. On a personal level, I think these rights have really allowed me to fully participate in, you know, in with my, let me say with my authentic self, you know, just making sure that my voice is heard on important issues. I think that's more acceptable now than it was a while ago. And it has really empowered me to make choices that align more with my values and ambitions. And that's what I'm thankful for. I think professionally, these advances have actually opened doors for many women, particularly in the financial services industry. We see that now, we see that at the SEC in terms of our leadership positions. And those doors that might have been closed, you know, previously to generations of women are now I am seeing a lot of that being more welcomed. And, and then also helping to create spaces where they feel as if they belong as well. So, I think I've seen a lot of that I've benefited, you know, personally. So, so yeah, we've come a long way, but we still have a long way to go. Indeed, indeed. And it was Karen or if Miss Lori, if you all have anything that you know, response or something you want to contribute to that question for you, feel free. If not, we will continue on with the discussion. I can I can answer that one. So this does take us back. I feel like Allison and I have, we have similar federal government birth dates. So we'll talk later to figure out what month she came on board. But one thing that I do remember when we're talking about advancement is when I first started with the federal government, I had to take a typing test. And I did not see that being required of my male colleagues. When I walked in the door, it was, you know, this, you know, clerk type is those type of positions where, you know, we're generally, you know, set aside for women. So I just think that the advancement has gone such a long way. And it's been so beneficial to me. Conversations are not happening in the workplace. I mean, conversations that weren't happening before you're not afraid to speak your mind to talk about, you know, the challenges that you're facing with other women. We're creating these informal networks now, that was not present, you know, when I started in the federal government. And we have groups like FEW, I mean, they promote empowerment big time. So I just see women breaking the glass ceiling. And it just gives me motivation that, you know, it's truly possible. And it's possible for those young women that are coming up behind us. Thank you. I can add to that, too. First of all, I wanted to say that I 100% agree with what Allison said earlier about women being more empowered. I, yeah, 1000% agree. I think that's absolutely true. And then I just, excuse me, also just wanted to maybe talk a little bit more on the, you know, the personal side on the home life side. And just say that, you know, I came, I grew up in a family where both of my parents were working. And also both of all four of my grandparents worked. So I grew up with with that, you know, in my in my mind, I was my kind of early role model. But I will say that, you know, both of my grandmothers and my mother had jobs or had a career that were kind of traditionally female. You know, they were secretaries, or they worked in education, or, you know, things like that. And I really think there's been a huge expansion in the opportunities across other fields for women, you know, certainly since I was a young girl. And I think part of that is because that parents such as mine and many, many others encourage their daughters as well as their sons, you know, to reach out and grab the opportunities that they want to do to work towards those opportunities. And I think that's been a big change. And I also just wanted to note that in addition to the changes in the workforce that have that have occurred, that there have also been changes, you know, at home that I really think have helped many women to advance at all as well, not every home, but many homes. In other words, I think that there are more, there are more men, more husbands, more fathers, more partners, for example, who are routinely taking care of jobs that were in the past, only for women, right? And sure, there are also women who are doing jobs at home that were previously only for men, or more likely for men. But I think that's a change as well. You know, my husband right now is away from home, and he's up with his dad, who's 97 years old, and he's helping his father, you know, he's getting his groceries, he's cooking him dinner every night, he's doing his laundry, he's doing everything he needs to be done. And in the past, that would have been, that elder care would have been a female role, right? It's not necessarily more. You know, as I said, maybe in some households it is, in my household it's not, which I'm happy about. I mean, I love my father-in-law, but, you know, my husband has time to spend time with his dad, and I get to talk to you all today. I think that's, you know, that's a win-win. You know, so that's just one example, but I think it's a change, and something that has definitely contributed to greater opportunities in the workforce, certainly for women, but across society, I guess I would say. And I think this is a societal change, and I really hope that it continues, because I think it's a really good thing, not only for women, but for families. Thank you for that, and that's a really, really great point. Thank you for covering that. I do think, again, I agree with all of you ladies, in terms of the changes that are taking place personally and professionally, and how it's paving the way for generations like myself. So, again, thank you all for breaking the ceiling, and, you know, being advocates for change in the workforce, especially for young women. And so, I want to go back really quickly to a statement, or to a comment that both Ms. Lori, all of you have mentioned and touched on, and that was the challenge that you faced in terms of networking and being able to collaborate with other women. And so, my question is, how can we, women, support other women in the workforce? Like, what has been the most successful practice for you, you know, throughout your career in the federal government, professionally and personally, honestly? How can, you know, how can we continue that work? And I'll start with Ms. Lori, because I think you were the first one to mention it as a challenge. Yeah, so, first of all, I would consider encouraging or having, we need to encourage our women colleagues to sit front and center and speak up in meetings. Too often, I walk in meetings, and we're sitting alongside the wall, or, you know, we don't feel like we have a place at the table when we absolutely do. And we need to feel that, you know, in our spirit, when we enter a room, you know, exude that confidence. Start building your network. That was pivotal for me. It was pivotal because it helped me understand and redefine how I was doing things. So, huge thing. Encourage us women, go for the opportunities. So many times, you know, we might put something off and say, oh, I don't think I, you know, qualify for that, or I might not be good at that job. You know, I read a study just recently, and it said men will apply for jobs when they feel like they know at least 60% of the duties, only 60%. But women, on the other hand, will not apply for a job until, unless they think they got all the checks, the boxes checked. Unless we feel like we're 100%, we won't hit that, you know, that apply button. But you have to start feeling confident in yourself. And I think that a lot of us underestimate our own performance. So, so that's one of the things that I would, you know, I would encourage women, women that I talk to, you know, that's how I support them by giving them that motivation, that confidence, and helping them, encouraging them to build that network and just start, you know, being their own boss. Thank you. I received that. And I would say, too, my network has definitely gotten me opportunities that I wouldn't have had before. And I do think it is, and believe it's a combination of a lot of things that I really feel has been most successful for me. I would say that it's been a lot of informal mentorship, which I got through my network, that I made sure that I was seeking. It was also, now what I find for other women is advocacy, and really making sure that I'm advocating for them, too, because I think that's important. And then, because this is sort of my line of work, really being able to create those inclusive work environments. Those inclusive environments are really important when I have power in the space, and I make sure that I'm really intentional with that. So, for me, one of the most successful approaches has been really actively mentoring and sponsoring other women, and sharing my experiences, offering guidance and advice, helping them, opening doors for them, and really being able to support their professional growth, whether it's just even just a voice of encouragement. That's so important. And a lot of it is something I didn't seek out early on in my career. So, I make sure that I'm really intentional about that. And advocacy is just also so critical and crucial in success. So, whether, I think, Laura, you mentioned this speaking up for your colleagues in meetings, noticing what voices have not been heard yet, and making sure that they come forward, ensuring credit is given sometimes where it is due, giving kudos and being active voice in that meeting, pushing for policies in promoting gender equality. When you see that, you say, I might question this a bit to say, how are others affected by this practice? And so, building a network of those allies is really important, both male and female, honestly, because you need both. And so, fostering that culture of mutual support is really essential. And just the last thing is creating those safe spaces, and where other women can feel comfortable voicing their ideas and concerns. So, when you see that hesitation, you are one to sort of lean into that and encourage them. Whether it's through formal channels like employee affinity groups or federally employed women, or just like informal gatherings, those spaces can really help to build the community and empower women so that they can actually thrive. So, ultimately, I think it's about being intentional, about lifting others up, because I think as we have climbed the ladder of success, ensuring that that progress we make, not just individually, but making sure that everybody benefits and other women collectively. Great. Thank you. Thank you for that. And if I could add there, I would just totally, entirely echo what was said by both Allison and Laurie about networking. It's really, really important. I wouldn't say that it's one of my best skill sets, but I'm an introverted person who spends a lot of time pretending to be an expert. So, networking, I've had to work at. But it's certainly been essential in my career. And I would also echo the fact that, you know, certainly female networking, but male as well. And it's a little bit back to what was discussed earlier that, you know, in a lot of our agencies, there are not that many females. It's true for within BIS as well. It's improving, but better than it used to be. But, yeah, you know, a lot of when I was applying for senior executive service, I think all my recommendations were for men. You know, and I made a point of going out and talking to them and saying, hey, can I sit down with you? Can I talk to you? You know, will you support me in this area? And I think it was only, I mean, it was only because I stepped forward that, you know, I got that support that I needed. I would also just add a little tip that maybe some or all, everybody on the call has already heard about in terms of being in meetings. Or maybe two tips. First one is to, you know, is to reiterate points that are made by colleagues, certainly including female colleagues that maybe have been brushed aside in the spirit of the discussion. You know, that's something that can be really helpful and supportive of your colleagues. And I mean, also one of my big things is not letting people interrupt each other. And unfortunately it is usually men interrupting women. And I think I maybe have a bit of a reputation now for calling people out on that because it's very disrespectful and there's no reason for that. So maybe I would just, yeah, those are my suggestions. Okay. Well, thank you for that. And it's all very, very helpful. Just like Karen, I am a pretend extrovert. We do very well. So thank you for that. And so just for the interest of time, I do want to jump into the chat. We had some women who had some really great questions and just some clarification and some more guidance that they would like to get from you all. I think the very first question was in reference to learning more about how to overcome imposter syndrome. And so if you could give us like maybe one or two minutes on like the best approach on how you overcome imposter syndrome in your federal career. Yes, I'll take that one. I think I'm the one that kind of brought that up and was challenged by it. So, you know, here's the thing. It never really goes away. Sometimes you just have to find ways to really mitigate it. And one of the things that's really been helpful to me, and I'll be very transparent, this was working with an actual executive coach. And I'm one now to really take advantage of the resources that are available. And a while ago, when I was looking to really level up in my career, I recognized that I know what I know and to get me to this point, but to get to the next level, there were some things that I really needed to work on. And so for me, one of the things that I learned that really helped me is to go back and really look at all that I've accomplished. And really, sometimes we're in the moment, and we don't recognize where we're like, oh, I wish I would have done that different or show up in this space different. But when you go back and you really look at all of the things you accomplished, you just get an instance of just resilience and saying, you know, you really have done a lot, Allison, and look at all of the things that you've accomplished. You deserve to be here. So the second thing is those words of affirmation. And I am big on, if anybody could see my workspace here, I have notes and just quotes and things that I keep for myself on my laptop. I see Lori is shaking her head. Those affirmations every morning too sometimes. So one of the worst conversations you can have is a negative conversation with yourself. And so you just need those nudges sometimes when you can't get them from your colleagues or whatever, but you got to be able to do that yourself. So I would say just those two things, going back, celebrating where you are now, and celebrating the things you've already accomplished. And then being mindful of what you're telling yourself and using more affirmative statements, whether you have to like post them on your laptop or whatever in your office. Those have always really helped to remind me of who I am and why I deserve to be in the space that I'm there. Hey, thank you. That is very helpful. Especially for someone like myself, again, struggles from time to time with imposter syndrome, as well as others in the chat, and I'm sure on this meeting today. So that's very helpful. But thank you for that. And so we have another question. I think I'm going to direct this one to Lori. It says that you mentioned identifying strong female mentors and leadership. Do you have suggestions on identifying and connecting with mentors for employees that are fully remote? That's the twist. I think that's one of the biggest challenges a lot of us have faced today. And I'm going to kind of dispel that myth a little bit because I don't feel like a remote employee is a challenge. I actually think that if a person is remote, then it allows for the opportunity, I think, to have a more collaborative meeting because then you don't have to worry about, oh, I have to shift a meeting to meet a person. You can quickly plug in a person who's remote who happens to be completely virtual. So I would not use being a remote person as a challenge in networking. What I would do is we still have email, and if you don't try it, you'll never know. Send an email to a person that you think you might want to mentor with or network with. What's the worst that could happen? No response? Okay, move on to the next person. There's so many of us out here that are willing to pull our sleeves up. I can speak, I'm sure I can speak for Allison and Karen. We didn't get here by ourselves. And we're ready to support, we're ready to pull up the next person. So yeah, we will not use being remote as a challenge. We will use that as an opportunity. And use your email skills and search on the web because we are all out there just waiting to support. Okay, I like that. Thank you. So we have five minutes left. I have one question for Ms. Karen. Again, in the chat, again, like I said, trying to make sure that we apply the different questions to some of the responses that you have given us. And so you mentioned when you shared a little bit of personal details about your personal life in terms of the role switching with you and your spouse. And so one of the questions are, how do you maintain your mental and physical health at home? Like, would you like to share, you know, how you balance being the professional now, and your spouse being taking more of, as we all would like to title it, the female role or responsibility? It's a great question. And it's a big challenge. You know, I read something a number of years ago that talked about, you know, if you think about your life, kind of in whatever four main areas, like your work, your family, your friends and yourself. The theory, the premise of this article was that most people can at most do really well. And I'm not sure even hit three on any given day. I do think work balance, work-life balance is very challenging, especially for people who are ambitious. And even for people such as myself, who are fortunate enough to have, you know, a really supportive spouse. You know, I think we just do our best day by day. And I also think it's really important that on the days that we perhaps don't do as well as we would like, at home or for ourselves, for example, you know, we forgive ourselves and we try again. Whatever trick you can find that's going to work for you to encourage you to do a little bit better, whether that's getting up 15 minutes earlier, so you can go do some stretching or something or meditate or, you know, whatever else you can think of. That's the best. We all can, we all need to, I think we have, we can all try to do the best we can. And that's, but we shouldn't be shaming ourselves if we're not doing our best in every area every day. Thank you for that. That's very encouraging. Victoria, Victoria, can I just share something really quick? Because I think Karen said something that I think would be really valuable for the audience today. And I think sometimes we don't have that support network, right? Sometimes we just don't. And we as women have to make career changing decisions sometimes. And so early on in my career, my husband passed away. And, you know, I became a single parent when we never predict that would happen. My girls were six and eight when it happened. And I was at a federal agency that I had been at for a while. And I was really on the verge of really having to make a decision between do I stay? Or do I go? And so I think a lot of times women have to make those decisions, and we really don't have the support network. So there's a lot of us out there like that. And I'm in here's in here's what I'd say, you know, because I really don't have any regrets, I did stay there, because ultimately, it was important for me to be a part and part of my girls lives, and be accessible to them. And that was really a matter of convenience and support that I got from my current supervisor. But what I had to do too, was I had to make sure that I was also taking steps towards when I was ready to make that move, I will be in the best position that I needed to be in. So I deep into my network, I was out in College Park, and I really wasn't connected to the downtown circuit and, and everything. So, you know, I really had to start a community of DNI practitioners that really could get together. And that that starting that community that really helped to get me connected to my next job. And, and so sometimes we just have to make decisions that it's like right now, ideally, I want to move forward. But what's more important to me right now, however, you can always make steps towards your career, you don't always have to make that move. But you should always be making and building towards where you want to go. That is amazing advice and guidance, and a perfect segue. And so again, I can sit here all day and talk to you ladies, again, the information that you have shared has been extremely encouraging and uplifting. So just keep going and to keep moving forward. And again, you know, believing in myself and my ability, again, the service that you all the commitment that you have given to federal service and your career has been amazing. You three of you are very extraordinary women, and we appreciate your service and your time and your willingness to come here and give us some tidbits and some great feedback. And so you know, just some encouraging and uplifting words. So again, thank you all so, so much for taking the time to join us today. We hope that you that all of your stories and journeys uplifted and encouraged, you know, all of the participants, male and female on today's call. And so I will now turn this over to Jerry Beat, who will provide closing remarks for all of us. Again, thank you ladies so much for your time. It was wonderful speaking to you. Thank you, Victoria. So I echo Victoria. My name is Jerry Beat. I'm the Director for the Office of Civil Rights. And I really cannot express enough gratitude for the three of you, Karen, Allison and Lori. And Allison for coming from the SEC to speak to Commerce, a Commerce crowd here too. I really, really thank you for sharing your stories. As human beings, we learn from storytelling and authenticity like this. And I know that you've had a tremendous, your stories have had a tremendous impact on everybody in our audience today. I'm a big fan of Women's Equality Day next Monday, August 26. And the story of enfranchisement just has fascinated me for so long. And the story continues. It hasn't stopped. We still all fight for equality here in this nation. So I want to commend you for collaborating with the Office of Civil Rights in delivering this wonderful panel discussion today in honor of Women's Equality Day. It's been wonderful. Joyce, we appreciate that collaboration. And Victoria, you are a really good interviewer. So it's been a pleasure listening to the unique stories here. And I also apologize again for the mix-up of the photos. Again, Karen, I know that you said your team got a kick out of that. Again, our apologies that the correct photos weren't in that broadcast. But thank you for being here to speak to us. And again, a few great, oh, one thing about FEW and the importance of employee resource groups. And Allison knows this as a colleague in DEIA. ERGs are so important in creating an inclusive workplace. And so putting in a plug for FEW like Joyce did, please join FEW or any of our other ERGs to help contribute to building in a more inclusive workplace. And speaking of ERGs, we're going to be kicking off Hispanic Heritage Month this coming September 15th. It's just around the corner. And we are partnering with OLA, the Hispanic Employee Organization, to bring to you a real exciting program event. We have Latinas in Aviation as one of the programs featuring FAA speakers. The theme is Pioneers of Change, Shaping the Future Together. There's going to be an OLA membership drive, as well as a walk over to the Smithsonian's Museum of American History to view the exhibit, Presente, Latino History of the United States. So thank you for joining us today. Again, thank you, FEW, for the collaboration. And to our presenters today, our guest speakers, Karen, Lori, and Allison. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you all. Have a good one. Bye.