"Arsenal & Man City rivalry is AMAZING" Arsenal STILL like Zubimendi! FT (Kaya Kaynak)

It's always a pleasure, thanks for having me again. People deluded, I'm back again. Come on Ian! As the big man Ian Wright said there, special guest settings. I've been delighted to finally get him back on the platform. People, I'm back again. How you doing my friend, before we get into everything? Yeah, very good mate, how about you? Thanks for having me back on. It's always a pleasure, man. I'm good, I'm good. You see what my team's doing, or our team better yet. You know, we battered PSG. Before we get into PSG, and I definitely want to touch base with you about the Leicester game and preview the Southampton game, I want to ask you more some general questions about Arsenal, things that are held in us. The first thing I want to ask you is, how do you feel about we're being described as boring? Who said that? I mean, I wouldn't call them your friends, but that's what you see when you type Arsenal in. We're boring and we're not entertaining and we don't move the neutral, not that I necessarily care about that or that wins titles. But yeah, I don't know if they'll be my friends if I find out if any of them have been saying that, but I don't think it's boring. I think, listen, the PSG game wasn't a classic, let's be honest. The second half in particular was a bit dull, but I think Arsenal did what they needed to do to get a good win against a good opponent. And I think we all remember a couple of seasons ago, the first title race, where every game was sort of edgier seats, Yeah, you remember the 3-3s against Southampton, 2-2 West Ham, 2-2 Liverpool. They were hectic matches and Arsenal didn't win. Last season, they sort of found a sweet spot in between professionalism and still maintaining that excitement. And they came very close. And I think this year they look even more professional. And it's a weird one because I think if Arsenal were too open and exciting and they don't win games, then obviously they get criticised and now they're too boring, but they're winning games and they're still getting criticised. The goalposts are new. Exactly. You can't have damned if you do and damned if you don't, really, as Arsenal. You can't really win. They've not hit top gear this season yet, but it is October. I think if they were playing top-top football now, I think a lot of people would be saying, can they sustain this for the rest of the season? I remember last season, Arsenal didn't really hit their stride until after the winter break and after Dubai, and they came back in January and then they were phenomenal pretty much to the end of the season. If Arsenal are able to do something similar this season, I think we'll all be pretty happy. I'm fine with how Arsenal started. You have to remember, they've not lost a game, so if they're boring, then so be it. It's an amazing match. Exactly. That kind of voids in greatly to the next question I want to ask you. I want to ask you about, you kind of indirectly said it, why don't you think we've hit top gear yet? Just because it's early, I think. I think also the fact that a lot of the best players haven't been available. I mean, listen, the players who've been available have done a great job, but an Arsenal team without Martyn Erdegaard is a worse team than with David. Yeah, sorry, I stumbled across some words there, but listen, he's the captain, probably the best player at the club, in my opinion, one of the best players in the league, if not the best player in the league. So having him out for a month now it's been, and probably longer, it's a big loss and you have to cope with that. Arsenal have had lots of players out of the back as well, then White's had injuries, Calafiore's had injuries, still not seen Tommy Astley this season, we only just saw Mourinho. So lots of things haven't quite gone in Arsenal's favour in terms of availability. You have to feel out the new signings, people like Sterling still being bedded in. Again, I mentioned Mourinho, Calafiore just about starting to settle in now. So those things take time and I think also a big part of it is who they've played. So they've played in their first five games Villa away, Spurs away, City away, that's three of the toughest games in the league. So I think when you consider that and you consider they've come away, I think having lost once, drawn twice, Brighton at home as well is not an easy game. I think it's fair enough that Arsenal haven't hit top, top gear. They've played great opponents. They've not had everyone available and it's the start of the season. New signings need to bed in. I think if they're still not quite hitting top gear in, let's say, I don't know, February, March, then we can have these conversations. But as long as they're still getting results, then I think that's fine. You're right, man. It's a results-driven game, man. I do think we've had the rub of the green on occasions, but then they do say in life you make your own luck, as probably shown with the Leicester game. I'll definitely say that's the Villa. What's been the most enjoyable game for you as an Arsenal fan so far this season, or the one where you thought, you know what, we've been superb? It's hard to think of a superb one. I thought they were actually really good against Brighton for the first half and really good against Leicester for the whole game. I think I saw somewhere then that game was 6xG or something, which is just ridiculous. Something crazy, yeah. I really enjoyed the defensive display against Man City, actually, in the second half. I know lots of people will say it was boring, but I love a sort of back-to-the-wall kind of away day victory. And I know it wasn't a victory in the end, but, you know, the way Arsenal played... Careful, Jon Stone said their goal was a winning goal, man, in his comment. Yeah, I've gone on about it enough, you wouldn't know it. But yeah, it was a shame. But yeah, I've enjoyed that. Probably the performance I've enjoyed the most, the result I've enjoyed the most, was Villa away, just because a bit of revenge for last season. But also, I thought that's the kind of game that Arsenal would have lost last season, in terms of... Rode their luck a bit, like you said, but they were able to get over the line and they were clinical. And the most distracting thing, you can ask a fan and you can ask a journalist when you watch them, is they're so on top and they're so dominant and they don't convert that into goals. For some reason, away from home, they've been able to do that for the most part this season. At home, it's been a bit of a different case. But yeah, I'd say Villa away was... It's a tough one, you know, because I'm with you with Villa, because I actually think we were second best for a lot of the time. And I actually feel for the Mbasse-Madridi game, that's probably the worst we played, up until we scored and we looked comfortable. So I think that's definitely a shout. Had the Leicester game not been as crazy as it was in the second half, I probably would have said that, because I think we kind of... I can't, as you said, Martin Odegaard's not been there. I can't say we haven't been at our free-flowing best, but it felt like something close to that. For me, I mean, the City won's a shout. I'll probably say the PSG game recently, just because I did not think we'd come out there in the way we played. Since Odegaard's not been there, we haven't pressed exactly as high up the field as we used to. And I think we saw that in that game. I think individually, every player stood up to be counted. I loved the build-up play. We'll get on to Timber and Califuri, but they were amazing. There was just so much to like. Second half, obviously, there was more defending than we'd have liked to do, but probably the funniest PSG, there was going to be that. And I think kind of tying into what you said about City, we defended well. We weren't being broken down. We already had the lead. So I'd describe it as a professional performance. So it would be PSG for me. On a circle back to the City game, do you think it's a point gained or two points dropped? Because there was a lot to unpack in that game. A lot. Yeah, it's really hard to answer that question. I think in the scheme of things, if you look at it as a whole, one point when you're down to 10 men for 50-odd minutes at the Etihad is fantastic. But having come so close, literally a kick away from the three, it's hard not to look at it as two dropped. I think overall, you want to think positively. And I think the way Arsenal have bounced back ever since then suggests that they've thought pretty positively about it since as well. They've won every single game they've played since that match. And they've looked pretty convincing in every game they've played since that match. So I don't think it's slowing them down. I don't think they're feeling bad about it. So I'd say in the grand scheme of things, a point gained. And if they'd lost that game, then I think it would have been a real dampener and maybe a speed bump in the title ambitions. So I think a point gained in the scheme of things. You take two points off City, that's always going to be a positive. Obviously, you would prefer to take three off them. But I think it's all right in the grand scheme of things. Do you think if it was 11 versus 11, do you think they'd win it? It's really hard to say because I think Arsenal would have ended up defending like that for the last 20 minutes or so if it was still 2-1. And I don't think City would have come out and been... I don't think... So in the second half of the first half, Arsenal were well on top. And I thought City were quite poor. I think they would have felt their way into the game and created some chances. I think the most frustrating thing for me about that game was that should have been an all-time Premier League classic. The first half was one of the best games I've ever seen. And especially going into it with such low expectations from last season's game between Arsenal and City, which were great results for Arsenal but awful spectacles. Coming into this one, I had really low expectations and then it turned out to be this fantastic game. I thought, wow, I can't wait what's going to happen in the second half. How will City come back? How will Arsenal attack it? Should they defend? So finely poised. And then obviously the red card just flipped the game at its head. So I can't even remember what your question was. Sorry, I went on a bit of a rant there about the red card. But I think in the grand scheme of things, pretty happy with 2-2 away for City. What do you make of this developing quote-unquote rivalry with Arsenal and City? Because the last couple of years, we've seen our coaches getting into it with the players. Obviously, as part of your job, you would have seen what all the City players were saying. After the game, we all saw Harlan just, quite frankly, being a baby, throwing his toys out the pram. For me personally, I like it from both teams. I can't love, pardon my language, shit house me from Benjamin White and Kai Havertz and then people are doing it to us and I'm crying. And I also love it on the basis of City used to just smash us on a football field, tell us we're so good and pat us on our heads. Now, I can't quite say they're rattled because they've been there, done it and wore the t-shirt. But we're genuinely living rent-free in their minds. We're genuinely upsetting them. So for me, it shows that we're really and truly are competitive again. But where do you stand on that? No, I think you're spot on. I think the fact that in the aftermath of that game, City were running them out as much as they were, shows that they're threatened by Arsenal in the sense that they think, wow, this is a team that can actually do damage to us. We need to beat them. We need to get every advantage over them that we can. And I thought it was massively hypocritical. Listen, Bernardo Silva coming out and saying there was only one team that tried to play football. I remember when it was New Year's Day and Arsenal tried to take a quick free kick. They were down to 10 men in that second half against Man City. Bernardo Silva died for a penalty and then started kicking the ball away when Arsenal tried to take a quick free kick. So it's something that everyone does. And I think to pretend you're the one team that doesn't do it is ridiculous. But I'm here for the rivalry. I think it's great. I think just as a football fan, the Liverpool City rivalry was great because it was two completely different stylistic teams. And it was really entertaining matches a lot of the time. And it was fun to watch. But the one thing missing from it was a bit of needle because the two managers were very respectful of each other. The two sets of players were pretty respectful of each other. I think it's much more fun when the two teams properly hate each other. You know, you think back to Arsenal United back in the day, Arsenal's penalty when unfortunately Chelsea finished on top in the Mourinho era. Those were fun rivalries and they mattered. And you care more and you remember them. I don't know if people will remember the City-Liverpool rivalry in the same way they remember the Arsenal United rivalry that people talk about it nearly 25 years on. People still talk about Keane and Vieira all the time. And I'd love for a similar thing to happen this summer around Harland versus Haberts kind of thing. You know, that would be amazing. And yeah, from a journalist's perspective, being selfish, it gives me a lot to write about and I enjoy that side of things. But it's much more entertaining. I think everyone should really enjoy it. And listen, I think Arsenal fans didn't like City anyway. But the fact that the players are now bought into it, then yeah, all here for it. And I think that rivalry needed a bit of needle because you need a bit of emotion behind it to really take you that extra, you know, one inch. And it makes all the difference in those big games. And last season, I think Arsenal didn't quite have it. They thought, oh, wow, these guys are great and you respect them. Now it's like we respect you because we know you're a good team, but we don't respect you in the sense we don't think you're better than us. You're human just like us. Yeah, exactly. I think you're banging on the money. Do you think Arsenal are judged? I know us Arsenal fans, I do think we do the woe is me thing. I do think we're a bit like conspiracy theorists. But at the same time, for me, it does feel like there's one rule for everybody else and one for my football club. Now rules are rules, right is right, wrong is wrong. I'm sure you've seen it with the use of second, you know, two yellow cards being issued for certain players than others. Do you think we're judged very differently or refereed very differently to other clubs? I don't think so. No, I think there are every team will have a BS referee incision that's gone against them. And I'm sure Arsenal can point to and won't remember plenty that have gone in their favour, but there'll be plenty across the course of the season that will go in Arsenal's favour. And that's just the way it goes sometimes. And Arsenal have had two very high profile ones and it's cost them four points. My biggest issue with the refereeing is do we actually want games being decided on the basis of someone kicking the ball away? Like in Declan Rice's case, Trossard I have less of an issue with because it was a stupid thing to do. And I think he kind of knew what he was doing, he sort of tries to pull out a bit. But the idea that Rice was then suspended for the North London Derby for knocking the ball away just a yard, like I wrote at the time that it was stupid. Exactly. I still think he was kind of stupid to do it. But I think do we actually want games being decided by that? Like, was anyone really talking about it last season? Was anyone saying, oh, the biggest issue in the game is this delay in restarts? It's like, no, I think everyone sort of understands that like, yeah, it's annoying when it happens, but it does happen. You kind of just have to get on with it. And I'd love for the referees to be able to use a bit of common sense in those situations and just say, look, if you do that again, I'm going to book you. Don't do that again, otherwise I'm going to book you. And then you can't have any complaints. But the idea that you're going to completely transform a game because someone's done something as minute as that, especially like the right one was so small. Trossard was right on the stroke of halftime. Like, it wasn't going to make any difference in the grand scheme of things. And I don't like the idea that referees are so trigger happy and so willing and so keen to send players off. That's not their job. Their job isn't to necessarily be an enforcer of the rules. It's to be an officiator of the rules. And I think there is a difference. I think a lot of the art of refereeing is that maybe a yellow card in a North London derby would be a red card in another game. And maybe people find that lack of consistency. Exactly. But the reality is there's different fouls in different games mean different things. And I think as a football watching public, we probably have a bit of growing up to do in terms of accepting that's a thing and not being like, we need consistency, consistency, consistency. And I think VAR is a big part of that as well. But yeah, I've got a lot of thoughts on refereeing. I don't think it's good at the minute. And I think... And even that with referees, I'm sure that one thing that annoys me about how referees are looked at is because obviously, if you make an article that's completely false, for example, you're going to get criticised. If I make a video that's false, people are going to comment. If a player or a manager or whoever in football, they have good or bad performances, they're going to be judged appropriately. For me, it doesn't feel the case with referees. I don't feel managers can be exactly honest in their conferences about refereeing because they know they're going to get fined. I think refs are very protected. I think people move like referees are robots. They watch football just like me and you. They're subject to bias and unconscious bias. Like they might think Arsenal are a bunch of cheaters. So naturally, they're going to judge us appropriately, which I think is a bit of an issue. Do you think referees in today's day and age are making the game a bit too much about them unnecessarily? I think in the Premier League it's happening. It's interesting. We watch the Champions League, right? And the Atalanta game, the PSG game. Do you remember a single refereeing decision in any of those games? I thought he did a good job too. And I watched the Villa Bayern Munich game last night and I thought he let a lot of go and I thought it made for a much better game. And I think European referees seem to have it in a way that they can sort of exercise common sense and sort of understand the sense of occasion and understand that it's a big deal and maybe your job isn't to be there to send players off. It's to try and make sure that everyone's safe basically and try and make sure that everyone plays within the rules as much as possible. And I think, yeah, English referees, it does seem to be, in particular, I don't watch any other league as much as I watch the Premier League, so it's hard for me to judge fully. But it does seem that there's almost an onus on them to be so much more trigger happy and so much more, like you said, making themselves a centre of attention. And it seems in the Premier League we've got this obsession every week. We're talking about, if you watch match of the day, every week it's refereeing decision, refereeing decision. I don't know about you, but I find it really, really boring. I'd rather be talking about football and in the Champions League, Europa League even, Conference League even, it doesn't seem to be a thing. So I'd love to know. I mean, I'd need to look deeper into what's going on there because without trying to make judgements just sort of off the cuff, but it does seem to be the case that when the English referees are involved, it seems to go a lot more smoothly. Exactly, man. And I'm a son of the Arsene Wenger School of Thought, so I'll always have it for referees, just like our former manager had, which is crazy. What do you make of how we're judged for dark arts because when we didn't and we was quote-unquote naive, people said we need to be a bit street smart. Now we're being street smart, people have an issue. I think under Mikel Otero at Arsenal, I think one thing that for me shows his evolution as an Arsenal manager, we see the way he's complained about certain decisions after games, like there was a while he would complain and complain, nothing happened. So he said, I'm going to sort this out myself. I think people are just mad that we're playing the game better than them or playing the game the best at the moment. But where are you at with that? No, I totally agree with you. It's interesting to notice how Otero has changed when it comes to refereeing decisions. He's, I think, a lot less emotional in his analysis and a lot more clinical. So if maybe you think back to Newcastle last season where it was pure emotion, his reaction, he was clearly fuming. It was a couple of years ago as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in those instances, I don't think he was necessarily thinking with clarity, whereas it seems now, when he talked about the Declan Rice yellow card, I thought he was spot on, that if you're going to, and he said it after Trossards as well, that if you're going to give yellow cards for that, that's fine, but there's going to be 100 red cards throughout the Premier League just for that this season. And there won't be, there won't be. And that's, you know, that's a nonsense. But I think Arsenal in the dark arts is interesting. I wonder if, I wonder how much City have made a narrative there in a sense by coming out and being so proactive with it. And I think they'll hammer that home for the rest of the season. I don't think Arsenal are necessarily worse or better than anyone else. I don't think people spoke about it in the Spurs game. I didn't think anything else was anything dirty in that game. Like I remember in the Vicario-Timber fight, it's Vicario who starts it and Timber just reacts. There's so many things like that. And you're right, that we all remember back in the Wenger sort of late noughties days where Arsenal were a really young team and they were told off for being too naive and not streetwise enough. And the idea was that they had this soft underbelly and they play lovely football, but the second you made it tough for them, they'd wilt under the pressure. And this Arsenal team isn't like that. They can play the lovely football, but if you want to go to war with them, they'll happily battle you. And I think that's the change. It's a positive change and people aren't going to like it because no one likes to see their team getting kicked or have, like you said, shit house really going against them. But yeah, it's just one of those things. I don't think Arsenal are any worse or better. I just think it's something they do when they need to. And I think it's a good thing they can do it. And I don't want to do it all the time, but if they need to, then go for it. Every team does it. I think you're bang on the money. What have you made of Arsenal from probably what, August up until this point now? We've had injuries. As you said earlier, we've had some tough games. And not everything's been perfect. Obviously we have dropped points, but we've come through it well and our charge for the title is still intact. Does it make you give a bit more flawless to not only Mikel Arteta, but the players for Kofi Moussa? Definitely. I looked at that fixture list at the start of the season and I thought, wow, in those first five games, Wolves at home is kind of the only one where you think, ah yeah, it's a guaranteed three points. It's tough. And when Brighton came to the Emirates, people forget they were, I think they were top of the league at the time, but they were on a really good run of form. Yeah, Man U aren't the team they used to be, but they still beat them. And yeah, it's really, really positive. I think Arsenal results wise, listen, and as we were saying before, they've not hit top gear, but they've sustained a title race that if they'd lost to Villa, Spurs and City away, which is very, very plausible. Any season that can happen, any Arsenal team that can happen. If they lost all three of those games, we'd be talking about, are Arsenal still even in a title race? And now it's like, are they where they want to be in the title race? And are they leaving a title race? And I think the unexpected sort of spanner in the works potentially has been Liverpool because they've been really good. And I don't think anyone expects them to be as good as they have been. But from an Arsenal perspective, they've done everything they can do. They've stuck to their job. And yeah, maybe the Brighton game is one where they think, oh, we probably should have won that as opposed to draw it. But beyond that, I think they'd be pretty happy with all the results they've got this season. And in terms of the title race, they're in a really strong position. And I'm not saying from here on out, it's going to be easy, but they've got, like I said, three of the four toughest pitchers out of the way. Like Anfield is probably the toughest away ground they've got left. And then beyond that, you start thinking, well, you're carrying the points that Arsenal should be picking up and the levels of consistency that they've been able to show. Like we forget in 2024, they've lost twice. And one of those came against Liverpool, I think on January the 6th. So if you sort of go from that onwards, post Dubai-Arsenal, have lost twice, once, sorry, in competitive games in the league. And that's unbelievable. So I think it's looking really positive for Arsenal. In the Champions League, they've done really well as well. It's quite a top-heavy draw in the sense that their difficult games are at the start. So Atalanta away, PSG at home, and I think Inter away is their next one, if I'm not mistaken. San Siro, yeah. I think you're right, San Siro. Not an easy feat, man. I hope they can do it. Yeah, it's going to be good, that game. I'm looking forward to that. But they've got all the difficult games, basically, at the start and it's been the same in the Premier League. And they've started really strong. And after a Euro summer, lots of teams don't start strongly and Arsenal have managed it. So yeah, positive, positive. I think Arsenal are in a really good place right now. Do you believe this is our year? Are you trying to put me on the spot like Zaka? Exactly, man. Exactly that. It's hard not to think so. When they're still winning games without Odegaard and City have got Rodri out for the rest of the season. You look at those two things and you think, wow, this is looking pretty good. I know. You don't want to get too excited. But it's hard to see where the slip-up is going to come. Having said that, I've jinxed it now. It's definitely going to come. But it looks positive. I'll go that far. I won't go as full on as Zaka was the other night. But it looks very, very good. And that's the thing, man. I think, do you know what it is? I think with me, I think, you know, on our day, we're amazing. Like I always say, in the Premier League, I am a bit more wary of us at the Emirates just because it seems like game games are kind of more like appealing for the neutrals away from how we just take care of business. And I flip that around in the Champs. But then I look at it and I'd say, the only thing that can beat us is ourselves because it's always the games that should be walkovers that there's banana skins. Like the Leicester game, it was amazing. It was free-flowing. We scored two goals. Probably should have scored four in the first half. Then obviously you saw, you know, it's like what Arteta seems to keep saying. You have to kill the game before it kills you. It almost killed us. And then, you know, to be in the 90th minute and it's 2-2, we found four goals. It speaks volumes of, like you were saying earlier, our resilience, you know, our character, et cetera, et cetera. But it's these kind of games that scare me. And it's even like Southampton. They couldn't buy it. They can't buy a win. Ramsdale can't keep them out of the back of his neck. We know it's a very different Southampton that awaits us on Saturday. Like we both know Ramsdale's going to turn into Cassius at some point. So for me, it's the little games, man, that kind of, I like that. You said it there, man, with all the guards injury. Now I have to ask you it, like, are we better without all the guards? No, they've found a way to cope without him. Trossard and Havertz in that little sort of swapping the false nine position. It looks, it works so well. And they're both such intelligent players that they can do it. But no team is better without Martin Odegaard. I think he's the best midfielder in the world. He's the best creative presence in the world. He's so good off the ball as well, like you were saying earlier in terms of the press. When he's back, Arsenal will be a much better team. And hopefully that's not too far down the line. What have you made of Martin Odegaard recently? Because he seems obviously not against PSG. He was very unlucky with that volley. But in terms of goals and assists, he's been quote unquote productive the last few weeks. Do you think he's turned the corner? I hope so. I thought he was really good at the Etihad. I thought he stepped up at the Etihad when Arsenal needed him. He showed real quality on the break because I can think of countless number of times where he gets the ball on the counter, he dribbles down the left wing and then just sort of looks down, doesn't look up, puts in kind of an aimless cross on his left foot and it doesn't really work out. Yeah. Against City, he had the quality. Obviously he got the assist for Calafiori, but he put in a few decent crosses before that. And I thought he looked really good at times against Leicester in the first half. I thought we sort of, oh, okay, we're just getting back to the best Martinelli. And I'd love for him to go on a run of two, three games now scoring each time because he is, for me, a real confidence player. And when he's not thinking, that's when he's at his best. The second he sort of has to think and sort of panic and slow down. Exactly. That's when he seems to struggle. And I think he, and Mikel said this years ago, he sort of, he plays the game at 100 miles an hour and he needs to add gears to it. And he's added those gears to it now. But there are times when he gets into the final third, where maybe he just doesn't quite have that composure. And I think that'll be a confidence thing that when he's scoring more in front of goal, the composure will come back. So I hope he's turned the corner because last season was a bit disappointing by his very high standards. And I'd love for him to be back. And listen, if he ends the season with 10, 15 goals, Arsenal are looking really good up front because Havertz is already on course. Jesus is, I think will probably hit double figures. Trossard's close. Saka will get there. So if he ends up with 10, 15, then Arsenal have got a real, real firepower up front. I would love him to do that, man. What have you made of Thomas Partey's form? Especially because this is his last year. Do you think he could earn a new contract? I think at his age, I'd be surprised. I have to be honest, just because he's the wrong side of 30 now. And I think if Arsenal were going to start talking to him about contract extensions, they probably would have thought about it already. I know because I've better rates him very highly. And when, you know, I think there were people at the club who were happy to let him go over the past few summers. They said, nope, he's staying. He's part of my plans. And that's been a big part of things. And I think he's not always been top drawer this season. He's had a few moments where you think, blimmin' heck Partey, what are you doing? Like he gives them all away sometimes in stupid positions. You're like, what are you doing? But when I really needed him at the Etihad, wow, what a display that was. He was unreal. He was really good. I thought in the first half against PSG. I thought he was good in the first half against Leicester. I think with Partey's thing is now that, you know, playing every three days, that's the question is, can he do that at the top, top level? Can he play every three days? Obviously, Jorginho is a fantastic backup if you need to swap them in and Rice can drop into the six. And it'll be interesting now Marino's fit, you know, will Partey be the ones to drop out to make him, to accommodate him, sorry. That'll be fascinating to see. And I think Partey has done himself, you know, no harm with how he's played this season. I think he's been pretty good. I think he definitely probably thinks he can be better in terms of his levels because I've seen him play much better for Arsenal, but I've also seen him play much worse. And I think he's been good for the most part. So yeah, good, good season for Partey, but it'll be fascinating to see how things work now Marino's here. And that ties into what I was going to ask you because for you, who drops out? Because on paper, I do think the plan was Declan Rice, Odegaard and obviously Mikel Marino. Partey's form, I don't know if he should be dropped. Now I am not advocating to drop Declan Rice. I don't feel comfortable without Declan Rice not being in that team. If our team was a car, he's the seatbelt. I feel a lot more comfortable with him there. But who would be dropped out? For instance, if he was going to start against Southampton on the weekend. It is a difficult question, isn't it? I agree, you can't leave Declan Rice out the side. So it's probably got to be Thomas Partey from the team he played against PSG. I don't know if he will start straight away. I think Arsenal will probably gear him back up because he had one training session before he played on Tuesday. He needs a bit of time to build up his match fitness. And I thought as good as he was on Tuesday, he did show signs of rustiness every now and again. Like his touch was a little bit off and maybe he'll need a bit of time to build that up. And I think over the international break, he'll have two weeks working at London Colony with Mikel. And that'll be really good for him, just like it was for Sterling when he had it in the last international break. So I'm excited to see what happens with Marino. I think it's a signing that lots of people are very excited about. I don't necessarily know if he's coming in to be a nailed on first team player. I wonder if maybe the midfield will stay the same when Odegaard's fit. And it'll be Odegaard, Rice, Partey and Marino will be the first man off the bench. And he can do that creative role that Odegaard does, but he can also do the defensive role that Rice does or Partey does. So yeah, he gives Arsenal options in midfield and that's what Mikel wants, yeah. I think the major thing with me, with Mikel, with me and Marino would be, you're going to go over to the left now. I feel Kalafiri and Martinelli got a great developing partnership. You add him over there, we've gone back to the days where we look a fret down the left and the right. In the last couple of years, we've probably been a lot lopsided, if I'm honest. I want to ask you about Declan Rice. Now, I like him in the eight. I think he's given a good go at it. I think he's doing his thing. I feel people get hung up on technicalities just because you're at eight don't mean you have to not do six things. But I must admit, I am gearing towards just put Declan Rice back into six, man. That's his bread and butter. That's where he thrives. Just kind of make him our Rodri. Where are you at with that? It's a difficult one, man. It is. The Rodri comparison is tough because I think Rodri is technically and physically the best midfielder in the world. I know I don't like saying about a City player, especially a City player who said something. He's a fantastic player. He's an annoyingly good player. I don't know if Rice is a similar kind of player, similar kind of profile. I don't know if he'll ever be as good a passer as Rodri is. Rodri is a brilliant passer. I think Rice is really good. Don't get me wrong. But in terms of things like receiving the ball with his back to play, I don't know if Rodri will be, Rice will be on that level. But I don't think that necessarily means he can't play in the Six. And I think that's where Arteta sees him in the long term. It's where he sees himself in the long term. And the one thing he's shown throughout his career is that he can learn and develop really quickly. And he started at West Ham as a centre-back in the back three. And now he's one of the best left-eights in the world. And we saw against Bolton. He can go forward and he's got a bit of quality in the final third. If you give him a chance, he'll punish you. And I'd love to see more goals from Rice this season. I like him in that left-eight role. I like having the sort of security of someone behind him who is possessionally very strong. I liked it when they had, you know, a couple of seasons ago, and it was Granit Xhaka in that left-eight role and Partey behind him and Odegaard there. And I like the balance of that in terms of one guy can do both the attack and defence. One guy is primarily defence and one guy is primarily attack. And I think Rice in the Eight gives you that. So I'm a fan of that personally. I'm a bit more, in terms of my approach to football, I'm just more of a lock the back door first before you try and go out. That's just how I view things. I build from the back. Maybe Arteta probably shares that. I think so in certain circumstances. But yeah, I like Rice in the Eight personally. And I think it's interesting. Obviously, Arsenal were going for Martin Zivermendy. I know Liverpool were interested, but Arsenal are still very interested in him. And you think if he comes in, where's he going to play? He, to me, is more similar to Roderick. It's not just because they're both Spanish. Realistically, I think he's a lot more similar. And I think a midfielder of, listen, you mentioned Partey's probably going to leave this summer, Jorginho too. So Arsenal will need a sign of six regardless. And a midfielder of Zivermendy, Rice and Erdegaard, now we're talking, that's proper. Mouthwatering stuff, man. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Do you think, obviously, you're not in Arsenal's recruitment staff and things like that, but you mentioned you were still interested in Zivermendy. I don't doubt that. But we'll never know exactly what happened, but it feels like he took us around the houses. Now, when I look at Blavich and Locatelli, it's like when you burn Arsenal once, it's like we leave you alone. Do you think if there was a deal to be done, considering that we would go back in for Martin Zivermendy? Yeah, definitely. I don't think it's the case that maybe Arsenal will cut ties. I think, for example, look at Jorginho. You know, they tried signing him and then they went back in and got him. Similar with Neto, actually. They tried signing him a couple of summers before, went in and got him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good point. So I think if Zivermendy's available this summer and willing to leave Real Sociedad, Arsenal will try and get themselves to the front of the queue. And the question will just be in terms of what package he can offer, because every team in the world wants him. Like, he is a highly sought-after player. I think Arsenal may have an edge in the sense that they'll be able to convince him by saying, look, come be the future of our midfield. Jorginho and Partey have gone. You're our guy now. All the Spanish people we've got. Exactly. So I think that could be big. And obviously the Basque country link. But I think, well, Zivermendy, he seems genuine when he says I want to stay at Sociedad and be a real club legend. He seems to really, you know, want to be a success there. I do wonder if eventually the time will come where he thinks that I need to be playing regular Champions League football. I need to be playing at the top of my game and the top of World Cup. I thought that too. And I was worried because I thought, God, if he goes there, then Arsenal have got no chance of signing him. But it's worked out well from Arsenal's perspective. He didn't go to Liverpool. And I'd love to see him at the Emirates next season. What have you made of our two new full-back signings? I say new because, you know, Timbers finally started playing. Personally, I think he's done very well coming off a year of an ACL with the amount of games we've played. He's been amazing, whether it's left back, right back. Califuri, for me, has been a revelation. Against PSG, you're seeing him pick up forward positions that Martin Odegaard would be in. The man's amazing. What have you made of them two? Do you feel they're our first-choice full-back? That's a very good question. I'll talk about how they've been first, and then I'll get to that because I'll try to think. Timber is such a good player. But I remember I saw him in the States last summer when he first signed. I remember thinking, bloody hell, this guy's good. He's so aggressive in the tackle. He's so defensively switched on. I can't think of a chance that Arsene can see that's come down his side. When he's playing at left back, he's locked it down. When he's on the right, he locks it down. I can't think of a single chance that's come as a result of a Timber error or that's from someone beating Timber. I think he's been fantastic. He's great on the ball as well. He reeks of Ajax in everything that he does. He's just so, so technically secure. He can pass it anywhere. He can receive the ball anywhere. Left foot, right foot, he doesn't care. Yeah, I think he is the perfect modern defender. I think he can play anywhere across that back line. I think we'll really see him. I think he is the first choice wherever he plays along the back four. I don't care where you put him, Timber has to be in that back four. He has to be in the team. If it's left back, that's fine. For me, Ben White is still just about first choice over Ricardo Calafiore, even though obviously they play on different sides. I like what I've seen from Calafiore too. It's funny, he's a big bloke, but he can do the technical side. You mentioned there, like popping up in the 10 position, you see a fullback of that stature and you think, okay, so he'll be good at defending, maybe going forward, not so much. He's got great mobility and agility, man. Yeah, he can do it. He can do it. He's a very valuable asset in the final third. He's sort of a bull in a china shop. He does everything 100 miles an hour. That's a great analogy, yeah. I like that about him. I think when he's defending, that sort of giving everything 100%, sometimes is a bit of a problem in the sense that he does seem to overcommit. I think he's got a yellow card in nearly every game he's played for Arsenal. Yeah, he didn't have to serve a suspension. Yeah, that's going to catch up with him. I do worry that maybe there'll be a penalty along the line that he gives away, but fingers crossed, knock on wood. I think he's a really good player. He's a really good addition and he fits that back line in terms of the type of defender I've said at once. Versatile, technically gifted, big, good in the air, threat from set pieces, not going to really get beaten in Jules Verne. He's got a lot of shirts as well. He's a good-looking fella, man. All of that, all of that. And yeah, you sidetracked me thinking about how good-looking he is now. He's a very good player and I think Arsenal are very happy to have him. Are you concerned about Tommy Asu then? Because obviously, when they all think we've got great options, great defensive depth, as you and I and everybody listening knows, it's different horses for different courses, essentially. But as much as we love Tommy Asu, availability is something that he's kind of allergic to. I just feel Arsenal might potentially move him on next summer because of that. I hope not because I like the guy. But what's your viewpoint, Sonny? Yeah, I really like Tommy Asu too. You talk about 1v1 defenders with Califuria. I don't think there's a better 1v1 defender at the club than Takahiro Tommy Asu. I think if you ask him to man-mark any winger in the world, he'd be able to stop them. You think back to that Liverpool game a couple of seasons ago when he was put over on the left for the first time and, pardon me, he was up against Salah at home. Salah didn't have a sniff. And I think he's such a good asset when he's fit, he's just not fit enough. And I think that told when Arsenal gave him this contract extension, it was only to 2026, I think it was. It was not a big one, was it? So I think that's a sign of Arsenal thinking, well, we need to protect ourselves here because we don't necessarily trust his availability. And it's maybe a sign that if someone comes in and gives you an offer for him, I don't think Arsenal would turn it down. I remember last summer, there was talk of Bayern Munich being interested and it'll be interesting now because when he's back, it's tough to even get on the bench at Arsenal right now. I thought Kimi looked really good when he came on the other day and I thought he looked good against Bolton too. And Timber is, Ben White will be fit soon, he'll be back on the bench. And you look at the four who started the other night, they'll all want to be involved. Arsenal have such strength in depth defensively and if there's someone who is to go, it doesn't look like Tomi Assi is closest to being out the door. It's a shame because I really like him. I still remember when he first came in, he started right back and he took over from Cedric and Arsenal have been in the trenches for a while with their right back options. And Tomi Assi came in and he's thought, wow, this guy gets it, he's a proper- He's the guy, yeah. Does it with a smile on his face. Yeah, and I'd love for him to play at Arsenal because I think he's, wherever you put him in the back line, he's got no sense back, left back, right back. A bit like what we were talking about with Timber, he can be a really, really solid option. I just don't think he's available enough like you were talking about there. And yeah, I think if an offer came in, Arsenal would certainly consider it. So what do you think the future looks like for Zinchenko? Because he's probably the most polarizing of fullbacks we have. Yeah, I don't get why people really hate on him as much as they do because you can either hate him for what he's not, you can love him for what he is and he's never going to be a defensive master like that's just not him. But if you play him at left back, he gives you so much, like he gives you so much in terms of, he can control the game from left back. I can't think of any players who can do the same. His debut season, amazing. It was unbelievable, wasn't it? And he revolutionized what we all thought the fullback position could be. Like we'd all heard of him in fullbacks and sort of seen it a bit, but when he came in, you're like, wow, this is proper. And he's a good footballer, man. I think I really like Zinchenko. And I think there are games where I play him, like Leicester, if he'd been fit, I probably would have played him against Leicester at home. But I'm certainly not starting him at the Etihad. But there are games where there are Zinchenko games and there are not Zinchenko games. Exactly. In the squad, you know, with that in mind. And if someone comes in and offers money for Oleksandr Zinchenko, I think you'd be mad not to consider it just because he is, what, 27 now and he's approaching the final two years of his contract. And I don't think Arsenal have started talks over negotiations as far as I'm aware. So that would suggest that Arsenal may be open to sending Mifunov comes in. But I don't quite get the hate on him. I really think, you know, he's a really good footballer when you ask him to do what he's good at. If you expose him and ask him to do things he's not so good at, then yeah, like any footballer, he struggles. But I think he's, you've got, like I said, love of what he is. Do you think this is a make or break season for Gabriel Jesus? You're throwing all these, you're throwing some dynamic questions at me, mate. I think it's a big season for Gabby J. I think, I remember that James McNicholas report would be open to an offer on him. And as far as I'm aware, that's not changed. And that's because his injury issues are a big thing. It's a real shame because we all remember that first half season before he went off to the World Cup when he arrived. It was brilliant. It was, you know, I think he was, he was one of the best centre forwards I've seen play for us in a really, really long time. And we'd love for him to get back to those levels on a regular basis. But if he's not playing, he can't do it. And Kai Havertz, in my opinion, is one of the best players at Arsenal right now. He's doing so well in that centre forward position. He's nowhere near his spot. No, no. And listen, if Havertz is fit, he's probably up there with David Royer on the first name on the team sheet. And I think that's a sign of how far off Jesus is right now. I think he needs a goal. I think he desperately wanted one against Bolton. I could tell with the way he was playing. And having said all that, I think if you want a player to come in for a big game and fill in or play a different position, then he's fantastic. I think right now, he's basically back at the role he was at City where he's next man off the bench. Whatever you need in the forward line, he's the next man off the bench. And he doesn't want to do that because he left City because he precisely didn't want to do that. But as long as he's at Arsenal, then I think Arsenal can take advantage of it and reap the rewards because he's a really good footballer. But it shows how strong Arsenal are in terms of strength and depth that he's not at the level of the forward line right now. I think you're banging on the money. My second to last question for you. Obviously, we've got Southampton on the weekend. Do you make changes? I personally would like to see the strongest team in Arteta's mind go out. I kind of want the best of both worlds. I'd love the same team that played against PSG to go out there because I just want my three points. But I would love Ethan to get a start. I wouldn't mind Mikel Moreno getting a start and getting some minutes in the tank. You could make a case of could Raheem Sterling or Gabriel Jesus come in and get some minutes there. But where are you at with that? So obviously, Timber's injury situation is a big part of whether you name the same line up. And if he is injured, and Ben White isn't back, what Arsenal do at right-back could be interesting because they haven't got... Not Skelly, man. Maybe Lewis Skelly, maybe put Partey at right-back. I'm not a fan of that myself. Let's not go back to them days, man. But if it's a fourth choice option, then that's what you might have to do. And you do that, then you play Jorginho, and then the whole midfield changes, or maybe you play Moreno. And so, yeah, a lot hinges on whether Timber's fit or not. And I don't think Arsenal will risk him if he's not fully fit because of that ACL. If he goes and pulls a hamstring, you lose him for a month, I don't think Arsenal want to risk that. It's not working. No, not at all. Whether this is a game for Ethan, I'm not quite sure. I think if he was going to play in this game, he probably would have played the Leicester game before. And who are you taking out the side for? You're not dropping Trossard or Havertz right now, so who are you realistically dropping in order to fit him in? That's true. I think that's a difficult one. I think Ethan's next games will come... You know, hopefully Arsenal are 3-4-0 up early doors, and then he can come on and play the last half hour. That would be great. An ideal scenario. I think that's where Arsenal were headed, towards against Leicester. But again, I don't think Ethan's quite the sort of last resort option. I think he's viewed as a proper first... Like, when Arsenal needed a goal against Leicester, it was Waneru who came on. And I think that's where he is. He's got a lot of courage in that game. Yeah, he looked great. And I think his next start will probably be Preston. I wouldn't start him this weekend. Yeah, I'd name the same team, if possible. If everyone's fit, I would. And then if, you know, Timmer turns out not to be fit, and White and Tomi Assi aren't available, then maybe you're looking at Partey right back, because I don't know about Califuri right back. I didn't love it, I have to say. Neither did I, but we just had to get through it, Becky. Exactly. Something about three left footers and a back four just seems wrong to me. I don't know what it is. Like, three right footers, you don't think... Four right footers, you don't think about it. But something about a three left doesn't sit right for me. And yeah, it just doesn't work. So I would, yeah. Listen, Southampton, as much as they're not the best, they have shown signs that they can do stuff. But they were good against United until United went in front. And us all need to be wary of that. And they'll learn their lessons from Leicester. They can't get too far ahead of themselves. So I think Mikel will probably go for a strong team, especially the international break coming up. He'll rinse everyone to the max and then send them off nice and tired to the international break, I think. I think you're bang on the money, man. And that's a good point about the international break. There isn't necessarily a need to arrest players. I still think we just need to get the three points. I mean, Southampton are fighting for their lives. It's almost like we're privileged kids, really, in that we're talking about winning the league. Safety is not an option for us. We're going to be in the division. When your backs are against the wall, there's issues. And I think every Arsenal fan, regardless of where Southampton is, naturally, they're one of our bulky teams. Like I said earlier, you'd imagine Ramsdale's going to want to point to people playing amazing. I actually think Russell Martin's a good coach. I think it's a results-driven game. As you know, results are all that matters. But it's not like they've just got promoted and they're playing poorly. They're playing out from the back. They're very progressive. They just haven't either got the rubber, the green, probably not defended well enough and ultimately not taking their chances and probably don't have enough quality. So I'm with you. In an ideal world, provided Timberspit, strongest team out there, put the game to bed. Hopefully there's four or five goals. Ethan, Mikel Moreno, anyone who needs Sterling, anyone who needs minutes, you go out there and play. My last question for you, I get a lot of banter on my channel because I went, as you know, I went to that press conference with Mikel Arteta and I was struck by his aura. Am I making this up? Or has he actually got aura? Because people think I'm being weird. I genuinely think he's got aura. I understand now what Declan Rice and all of these recent signers were talking about when they said they hear how Arteta speaks and they're kind of galvanised by it. But I just want to know your thoughts so I don't look crazy. Yes, in answer to your question. He's a bit of an intimidating guy in the sense that he's very clear in what he thinks about most things and I think that allows him to make decisions quickly and you have to sort of, as from a journalistic perspective, you know he's not going to answer questions if you phrase them in a certain way. So it kind of forces you to be on top of your game a bit and come up with ways of asking questions that you know will get an answer. And as journalists, we get a lot of criticism saying, why didn't you ask this question this way? It's like, well, Arteta's not going to answer it if you ask it in that way. And listen, you saw in that press conference, I remember I was sat next to you and it was like, okay, this is what it's like every week for us, every three days for us, every two days. Yeah, I think he's actually, I think he's better with the press now than he was. In the sense that I think he understands that he can send a message out and he can control the narrative, whereas in the past, the narrative has controlled him. So I think that's a big difference and he's good in press conferences these days. You know, there are certain things he'll never give anything away, like injury news, it's not going to happen. Try it for five years, it's not going to happen. It's just not a thing. But there are certain other things where maybe if you try and ask him on different bits or what a player's like or, you know, tactical stuff, he's quite good on it. He's quite willing to talk about it. And I think he's quite open on that side of stuff with the press. So yeah, in answer to your question, he does have aura. I think he's a very intense guy. Exactly, that's another good one. I think anyone who is, as I think, to be honest, to be primarily, all football managers generally are like, in the best way, they're all weirdos in the sense that they're so focused and so intense. Their life is this one sport, this one thing. It literally is. I don't know about you, but I couldn't live like that personally. And I'm happy not to. I can see how if someone does live their life like that, and you're trying to do the same thing as a footballer, and you see your manager living their life like that, you're inspired to do the same thing yourself. And I think that's where a lot of it comes from with the Arsenal players, where they see Mikel, he lives his life by such high standards. I think you see the rest of them, the rest of them sort of come in and see that. They're like, okay, well, this is the bar we have to hit every single day. And he doesn't let them slip beneath that. So that's probably what Declan Rice is talking about there. And I think, yeah, it makes a big difference. See people, I'm not making this up. I'm not a weirdo. Everyone else can see this as well. And I hope everyone else is given an opportunity to see such, man. But K, it's been amazing, man. Let people know where they can find you if they don't know about you, which I can't imagine is a thing. I'm sure there's plenty who don't. I'm on Twitter at kayakynack97. I work for Football London. So yeah, on the football.london website is where you can find all my articles. Also on Facebook, kayakynackjournalist. Yeah, so give me a follow on there. And I suppose what else am I doing? I'm trying to think of all the platforms. I do a bit of threads, not as much, but I'm trying to do a bit more threads seeing as Twitter's becoming a bit of a hellscape these days. So try and do a bit more threads. So I think I'm just kayakynack on threads or maybe kayakynackFL on threads. So give me a follow there and I'll try and do a bit more there. So yeah, great to hear from you guys. And thanks for having me on again, mate. Minor, man, you know you're always welcome. People, if you didn't catch that or you're too lazy to actually listen, all this information will be in the description. It's been amazing having you here and picking your brains, man. Hopefully the next time we do this, we're still in high spirits, man. But yeah, I know it's been a busy day for you. Let me let you get out of here and enjoy what's left of it, my bro. Cheers, mate, thank you. Come on, man, peace. People, don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. Let us know your thoughts. I'm pretty sure you've agreed and disagreed with a lot of what both of us have had to say. So yeah, man, on that note, peace, everybody. See you, mate.