Amy Adams & The Curse Of Being Nice, Talented And... Overlooked 🏆😥

Hello Zara Larsson. Hello. Zara, we're in a hotel right now but later on you are playing the Roundhouse as part of your UK tour. That is a great venue. It is. I played there last night for my first show and we have the second one tonight. And it was so nice because I feel like it's quite an intimate venue but it doesn't feel tiny, you know. And I got to see pretty much everyone's face in the crowd, which was nice. And still, you know, enough space on stage. And it was just like a really, really good venue. Everybody that I've talked to say, oh, it's one of my favourite venues to go and see. Yeah, and I've never been there. I've never seen a show. You can see wherever you're stood, you can see. And like you said, as a performer, you can see everyone. And also the people that have played there. Jimi Hendrix has played there, Blondie has played there, Led Zeppelin has played there. How does that fit? Yeah, it's like a very historic venue. So when you're on that stage, do you get a sense of that? I just get a sense of like taking my own show wherever I'm at and just having the best time with the people I'm on stage with. And I truly feel like I achieve that, like I do that. And I feel like the crowd, the audience is obviously such a big part of the show. But we would have the best time, like just us on stage, no matter where we would be, like on what stage we will be. So it's definitely, it's definitely amazing that so many iconic people have been there before me. But I also think like, OK, boom, Roundhouse this time. Where are we going next time? Maybe Ali Pali. Love it. And then after that, O2. Love. After that, Wembley Stadium. Yes! I love this about you because of the interviews that I listened to ahead of us chatting today, you've got drive and ambition in droves. I have too. I am deeply ambitious. And I think sometimes women are very scared to admit that, that they have huge goals and that the sky's the limit and that they will do anything to reach the goal. Not necessarily in a way going, oh, and then I'll be happy, but just in a way like this is what I want to do. And I feel the same. I'm urgently hungry for that next step. What is it? Where are we taking this? It's a fine line between feeling dissatisfied or unsatisfied, but also like, but because I'm not. I'm really, really happy. I mean, we had a great show last night. I did truly enjoy being there. I'm very present. Like I'm right here right now. I really enjoy myself. But then also to find that balance of like, okay, I'm, I'm very happy with where my life's at now, but I also want to find that, that purpose. I think, I think what I actually want is just to evolve. To, yeah, that's like the whole purpose, isn't it? To, to play there, to experience that. And then to take it. It doesn't necessarily even have to be about a bigger venue. It could also be just a purpose of like, okay, how do I want my show to be different? And I think when you do like showbiz, usually you can, you can put on like a more specific performance. How I would have liked my show when you have a bigger budget. And when you get a bigger budget is when you get to play like bigger venues. You know, just that constant like involvement. Yeah. And evolution. Yeah. But also, yeah, fuck it. I do want a bigger venue. And what about it? And like, I want a bigger venue because I want a bigger venue. Exactly. I think we should be able to say this stuff out loud. Because I often think if I'm doing something I love and I'm naturally, I think some, you know, I feel very lucky that I am, I was born driven. Like I've got that drive in me. It's a personality trait. Correct. And, and I think it's, you can't butt against that. Like it's there. And I think we're scared to say that. But I think if I'm doing something I love and I've got this drive, why can't I say out loud, I want to do this to the best of my capabilities. What is wrong with that? I think it's really frowned upon. And you're right about the fact that I feel like a lot of women when they say that, or younger girls, you know, it's just maybe not so much right now. I hope less than it was, you know, a couple of decades ago. But it's still, you know, people raise their eyebrows a little bit. Yeah. Like, oh girl, like really overwhelmed. You know. You know you should really, like. Yeah. Or be a bit more sensible about things. Yeah. Or realistic. Or like, I've got kids. So it's like even more frowned upon. But I want to be a great mum and do well at what I'm doing. And I think, oh, you feel like people are like, well, you're a mum now. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think there's, I think there's judgment on all of it. Right. But I think there should be more space for us to go, I want to be the best I can possibly be at this. And I've got big goals. And I won't necessarily be satisfied unless I tick some of them off the list. I think it's fine. More than fine. And I do think once I would reach that goal, I would myself probably have another one. Correct. And then another one. You just keep moving. And that's why I'm saying like, even though I won't maybe feel, I hope I won't feel like I'm not satisfied. Because that's also what I feel like inside of me. But I will always want to go further because that's just who I am as a person. I would like to evolve. Because let's say I play the Wembley Stadium. I don't think I would feel like, boom, I've done it. In my head, I would, where am I going after that? Am I moving into this type of business? Or am I doing something else? Have your personal goals always changing? Just to get you places, evolve as a person and as an artist. I think that's really what I want to do. Because I feel like I am a competitive person. And you probably are too. Yeah, for sure. So why would I want to do something that's not the best? Correct. And also, it's not just about, I want more. I want the venue to be bigger. I mean, that can be the benchmark. That can be the goal. But I think it's about trying to realize your true potential and being curious about this. Like, well, what is it? And this is for all of us. What am I capable of in any capacity? We don't actually know. So I actually get a real thrill out of pushing those boundaries and testing it and going, well, I could set myself that goal and see if I could do it. That could be fun or an interesting experience. And like you say, evolve and learn something about myself. I think that's the feeling, isn't it? That you want to push your own boundaries a bit. Absolutely. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, obviously a show at the Wembley Stadium would look different to the show at Roundhouse. Even though I'm still, you know, singing my songs, it's like the full production around it, the whole experience. It would just, it would obviously be different. And yeah, I would very much like to see where that would look like. Manifesting it. Making it happen. And it's also interesting because the older you get, the harder it is to experience newness. Yeah. And newness is obviously one of the greatest feelings when it's a positive new. I miss that sometimes. Well, I was looking in the paper the other day and there was that gorgeous picture that you'd recreated the moment that you had won the Sweden's Got Talent competition and you were 10 years old. And it's a beautiful picture where at 10 you're just full of glee and your arms in the air and it's just all new and exciting and you've recreated it down the line, the exact picture. It was so clever. Yeah. And you describe that moment as wee! Yeah. That, like, lovely. And we've all had one of those moments. Just pure happiness. Pure happiness and euphoria. Yeah. And I'm wondering, I had a similar start to a career to you when I was 15. I was on a presenter TV show over here, Disney Club, and I won a competition to become a presenter. 80,000 years later, I'm somehow still doing it. But I don't think I've ever felt that euphoria in my career. I have in my real life, but in my career since, than the day that I found out I'd won the competition to get the gig. And you think that everything's going to get better from there, but it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. There's a big difference between your personal evolution or what you feel like inside of you and how present you are at this very moment. And your milestones in your career. Because even though you might move on to bigger and better things, it's not giving you that sense of newness, like you said. That excitement. I feel like once you're in it and it's around you, it's just kind of there. Everything is relative, isn't it? Yeah. I always think about that one time I posted the cover for my first ever single. And I remember, which is so easy now to compare it to real numbers and statistics with likes on Instagram and streams on Spotify and that. But I remember my picture got 4,000 likes. And I was just like, I wouldn't shut up about it. My whole family, the whole night, we were just like, I can't believe it. Imagine how many people this is who like my picture for my song that's coming out. It was just like, now if my picture would have gotten 4,000 likes, I would have been like crying in the toilet. Delete. Well, that was a flop. You know what I mean? You just constantly move the goalposts. Exactly. But I do miss that feeling of coming in and just because you also realize growing up, first of all, everyone's just people, even the people you look up to. That myth goes quite quickly, doesn't it? You meet a few famous people and go, oh, God, they're just like normal people. That's disappointing. And it doesn't even have to be that they're rude or that they're not. They're just normal. Aren't we all? We're just people. Yes, of course. And then you have that image or that picture of like almost, yeah, like an idol. You godify someone or really put them on a pedestal. And then you realize, oh, they're just like me. Oh, that's so boring in a way, you know, but also kind of nice. But it really demystifies everything that you do. And, yeah, growing up and realizing that we are all of us are quite similar. And that says everyone you meet, no matter what you do, we're quite similar or from different backgrounds. It's just like I believe that you can meet, I can meet anyone, and we can have a connection, which is a really beautiful thing. But talking about that, like the superstardom, that excitement in the industry, in your career, it does fade away a little bit. And then you got to find like, okay, why am I doing this? Yeah. Because I want to see like a progression. And I just want to be the best version that I can be of myself, I think, in a way. Yeah. And I think you then learn to get the enjoyment from different areas because I think what we're dealing with in showbiz land is all the emphasis is on the feedback and how much someone likes something or streams something or is engaging with whatever that thing is. But actually, I think what we all have to do is learn that the enjoyment has to come from the doing bit. Totally. So for me, you know, it might be prepping one of these episodes or writing, like the enjoyment has to come from that rather than this many people like this or whatever. So what is that for you? Like, where's the bit where you can really harness that joy and go, no one can take that from me. You are so right about that, actually. And I think as I grow older, why I've now, like when I started out, I was not writing my songs. I was not really involved creatively. I also got signed very young. So besides like the Sweetest Got Talent part, which I won when I was 10, I didn't get signed until I was 14, which is still very young. But at that point, I was just like, put me on a stage, get me a few songs, like let me perform, let me sing. I'm an entertainer at heart. I want people to have a good time. The rooms that I'm in, the people I hang, like I am going to make sure that everyone's like, ah, like I'm such a jester, you know what I mean? So at that point, just put me on the stage. And as I grew older, I was like, maybe I want to write my songs. I want to be a part of that, like creating it. And then it became, well, I want to direct my videos. I want to be part of that. And now it's like I own my songs and have my own record label. And I have like, I do take a lot more, it's a lot more fun to be creatively involved and actually make what I do rather than just walk up on stage, which is still my favorite thing to do. Performing live, having a show is number one, but it's everything around it that makes it like, feel like I'm doing it, like it's me. You know, it's not someone telling me what to do or I have great people around me, but it's just that the making of it, I feel like is way more important to me now than just performing it and receiving the love from the people who are appreciating it. And that requires trust in yourself, because when you're the boss and you're making decisions for you, you've got to trust that you know what's best for you. And that was hard in the beginning. Yeah, of course, because before, you know, you can go, oh, well, they got it wrong, so that's why this didn't work or whatever. But now it's you. It's me, and it's kind of always been me. I mean, I've always been the face of my songs and my performances and my videos, but I think I didn't really understand that, truly. Or even if I did, it would just be something that I would think, oh, well, you know, like, obviously, there's a professional choreographer to this, so they must know the good steps. I wouldn't even question it, like, do I like this choreo? I would just walk into a room and it would be like, this is your choreo, and I'd be like, okay. I don't really like it, but I can't say it. And I was like, of course I can't. Or even the simplest things, like a makeup, like sit in a makeup chair for a morning sofa program, and they do my makeup in a way that I'm like, I don't like that. Then I would go in and change myself in the bathroom, rather than like... I've done that so many times. Rather than like say, excuse me, could you please... I would just go, I love it. Thank you so much. It's beautiful. It's exactly how I like it. And then you go to the toilet and go, shit. Wiping it off with a tissue. I've been there. Yeah, and now I'm like, I actually, it's fine just telling people, ooh, I think I want it a bit more like this. So cringe though, isn't it? It's so hard. I know, but you know what? But we've got to do it. I've never met anyone who is not happy to change it. Of course, they're professionals. You know what I mean? We'll do it. I want you to be happy. I want you to be cool with it. And I think it was just something in me mentally, the thought that people would get really upset at me saying how I wanted things. When in reality, people don't. And even if they do, fuck them. You know? Like, it's your face. Or like, it's your songs. Or like, you are going to be the one who have to. And you've got to show kindness. Of course, of course. Exactly. So they can't take offense. No. Like, you would just say, oh, actually, this is probably how I would like my eyeliner to be. Yeah, no biggie. As an example. The world's still turning. But we get so nervous. You know, I talk for a living and I still, you know, be like, I could be in a taxi and they're playing a radio station that's just making me feel agitated before I go to work. And I'll persevere and just sit there gripping the arm of the chair rather than going, excuse me, do you mind turning it down? I'm too scared to. I'm a grown woman, what's wrong with me? I can't see that. I know, it's pathetic. What? It's so sad. Are you really like that? Yeah, I'm really like that. It's really ridiculous. What? Because I don't want to upset anyone. That's not the energy you're giving me. No, my energy is like, I know what I'm doing and I'm saying what I want to say. But you're like a people pleaser. I'm a people pleaser. I've got much better as I've had to over the years, especially at work. I'm much better at this stuff in my career than I am in my real life. Real life is where it gets complicated. Yeah. In work, there's structure and rules and this is how we're doing it and everyone's doing their thing so this is how it's going to work. But in real life, it's messy. I think the rules are very clear in your career, your work, than in real life. You don't have these titles and they might go away and go, oh gosh, she's a right bitch. I always thought she was and then I'm dealing with that and I can't sleep. It spirals on. It's not that bad. But I know what you mean. But it's so good and also the fact that you now own the rights to your songs, I mean, we have to sort of clarify that that is exceptionally rare in this industry. No, it really is and it's sad that it's so rare because it should be something that more artists should have control and power over, their songs and what they put out and even the songs, like I said, when I started out, I didn't write my own songs. I've always been very involved in what I want to release, what I don't want to release. I've been super vocal about that and I've been very much like A&R-ing myself in a way. But even so, I didn't write Lush Life and that song to me is such a strong, it's such a big identity of me as an artist. So to just know that it's safe with me and I can kind of do whatever I want with it and it's not going to go on and live its own life because some investment capital company took hold of it and now, oh, they're going to sell it to this person or this commercial or whatever, you know. And also in the future, the fact that I am now also, like I've said, I've always been the face of what I do, but now I really am responsible for what I do, just economically and in a different position where I can maybe talk a little different when it comes to negotiating with labels or, you know, I'm still in a partnership with Sony Music. They're licensing my songs and I'm an epic. But for the future, it's just very much down to me. I can't really even mentally blame somebody else. Oh, well, they wanted to do that or they were like, it's really up to me now, you know. I mean, it's a really smart move and it's really brilliant that that's the direction that you're taking yourself and it's fantastic. I'm sure you feel proud about that. You know, you're still at a very young age to have made these decisions. But if you were to rewind and go back to 14, is there anything you would warn yourself of walking into that industry, knowing a bit from winning the competition at 10, but really diving into the industry for the first time? Yeah. Very excited. You know, we're all at 14, impressionable, naive. Would you go back and say, just watch out for this? Honestly, I have been so well taken care of and I think it's because my mom was always with me up until like 20, probably. So if I was 14 now, she would sit right there. Yeah, that's so good. She would be with me everywhere. And not only her, but my manager or the people I got. When I got signed at 14, I got signed to an indie label in Stockholm and it wasn't that big, big machine of people just throwing me in and making me do these songs that I had no control over or whatever. It was a small company and the people there really also listened to me. My first song that I ever released was a song that nobody really thought was the good choice. It was a ballad, which I'm not really known for these days, but it was a ballad, no drums. It was super calm. No one was kind of doing that back in the days and especially not in Sweden. I just thought, I really, really, really want to release this song. I love this song. And they just said, okay, we don't, but we're going to support you with that. And they did. And it went really, really well in Sweden. And they just always backed me up. So coming from that and then into the big labels in America like here in the UK or in the rest of the world, it gave me such a feeling of secureness and that I could fall back on something because I knew I wasn't completely alone. I think being signed really early on and being signed maybe directly to these big labels because not only are you very young, but you're also one of so many artists on a label. And if they want to spend a lot of money and efforts and time into you, then you might feel like maybe I have to do this, even though I don't want to do this specific song. I don't, but I always felt like, fuck you guys. I have my guys back in Sweden and we released songs that you didn't like at first and it went really well in Europe and now you like it. We did that on many songs. And then when they were like, oh no, this is actually a really cool song because it was a hit back here in Europe. We've always loved this. No, we haven't, but that's all good. Cheeky bullshitters. And I wonder what my life would have looked like if I didn't have that. But I've always said, I am actually so thankful for just the people around me, for the people that I am still working with and have worked with. I've definitely had some weirdos in there. There are always, in every industry, some very weird, strange people, especially in showbiz though, I would say, or they just get away with a lot of stuff. But I feel like times are changing. Things that were not acceptable or were acceptable back in the days are not acceptable today. And you know it. But if I could change anything, honestly, it would just be, don't take it so seriously. I have felt so much pressure on doing well, living up to people's expectations of me or things that I thought people had expectations of me for or of. And just like, it's not that deep. Just release more music. Create more. What a great attitude to have. Because I think, having skirted around the music industry for many, many years, it's taken very seriously. Yeah, but it's just music. Is it that serious? Aren't you just putting a song out? And everyone's a bit worried and a bit anxious, what the pussy's putting around? And you're going, shh. I think it's just a song. It's just music. Yeah, I think this is brilliant and you're really talented in school for whoever you are. But I think this is not that serious. And even for people who do take it very, very seriously, and I respect that, and they really have a concept and they have something they want to say. And music could definitely be life-changing for people. It's political. It could be so many things. It is music at the end of the day. And it could bring people together or it could start debates or it could start all these different things. For me, how are you even going to do anything if you are not even releasing music because you're so scared of the fact that it feels this big and serious? That's the thing. I think you're absolutely right. Music can be a very serious thing in terms of what it can do and the momentum it can create and the beautiful collectives that it can create. But the ecosystem it lives in and how it's released doesn't need to be that serious. It's like any job in showbiz. It's entertainment. It is. I have to remind myself of that because I get so stressed about things. I've got to interview this scary person and oh shit, I've got to... And it's like it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. And I think what doesn't help is the fact that there's this new idea of perfection. And it's probably driven from social media, which has good and bad sides like everything. But there is this concept that everything's got to turn up perfect because otherwise someone's going to pull it apart or find the flaws or go, well, that's wrong. I think that is a genuine pressure. It is. It definitely exists. I felt it. But then also I think I wonder sometimes why do I even need to entertain that side of, let's say, the internet or TikTok or Twitter, whatever it is, because I feel like a lot of people who are the ones who are judging others releasing music or following their dreams, releasing programs and show, whatever, they're not even in the arena. I think they judge people because they're so scared of if I would do this, other people would judge me. So it's like that weird downward spiral of like, you know, I'm not... Because anyone who's actually in the arena, I feel like, are not the judgy people. No, you understand... Yes. ...the complexities of it. You understand that it could be scary and that it's also not that deep sometimes. Yeah. But the people who are watching it who point fingers or say whatever, really, in reality, why would you actually listen to those people? Yeah. Do you know what? I read something, I don't know where it was the other day, that you'd said about this new album in particular that you were thinking, God, should I do a concept album that's talking about heartbreak? But you were like, actually, I'm in a really good place, let's just have a fucking great time. And pop is great for that. Of course it is. I feel like you need music for that. I need that. I want to hear good stuff that makes me just feel happy and I want to dance about too. Yeah. It's really important. It is. I mean, that's a great level of confidence that you've clearly naturally got, or maybe your mum's helped you to cultivate that, where you've gone, no, I'm still going to do what feels right to me. I'm just glad that your mum was around so much in the early days. Me too. I think that's really important. Me too. Did she worry about what you were getting yourself into? Well, I think because she was always around, she kind of knew what was up. Yeah. But she was definitely scared of me being in a situation that didn't feel good. Or even being young, I've been in so many rooms as a teenager, 16, 17, 18 year old, and it's me and 10 other guys, and they're like, my dick is so big. Literally and figuratively. It's just been situations where I'm like, I don't feel comfortable in this room. Why am I here? And in no other situation outside of music industry or the showbiz would a teenage girl sit in a room with 10 other grown men. There's no scenario where that's not inappropriate in a way. And they were like, there's a lot of alcohol, there's a lot of drugs around. They were bringing girls from dancers. And it was just like, Wow. And there's your mom like, Hi. It was just, Thank God your mom was there. Honestly, I've definitely left spaces where I'm like, I don't see why I should be here right now. And even if she's not there, someone is there from my team. But I can only imagine, and I'm not a person who says no to a lot of things either. And especially not teenage me. I will be down for anything because I want to be a fun, cool girl too. So I can only imagine if she weren't there or if the people that I trust were not there, what would I have done? Wow. Do you know what? I think that's incredible for you to have that hindsight as well. It's definitely a hindsight thing. But even if in a situation like, this is weird. But I think it's actually stood you in such good stead because now, you're now 26. You're still young. And you're going down an incredibly sensible route in terms of your choices and how you want to do business. I was an absolute knob at 26. Absolutely. I was working. I still am. When I'm not sitting in a nice dress with a mind. No, but I think your mom being there has had a hugely brilliant impact. I remember I was like, Mom, you don't even have to be here anymore. Get away from me. And now, I'm like, thank God. Thank God. Oh my God, your mom is brilliant. She's so brilliant. And how have you found it moving into this global fame and global success? Because I know in Sweden, things work slightly differently. There isn't that kind of celebrity culture. The philosophy is based more on equality and that everyone's the same. I've got friends that live in Sweden. I've never been. Actually, I'm going this year. Oh, nice. I'm going in November for the first time. I can't wait. Yeah, it's ages away. It's also the worst time to go. I'm going to a very snowy northern bit. Yeah, to go hiking. Okay, love that. That's the kind of thing I like to do, is hike. So, that's going to be gorgeous. But I know that it's a different flavour of how you view celebrity. And it's not like, especially in the States, that sort of worship of celebrities and there being such furore around it. And even in the UK, celebrity sort of culture is there in the paps. Yeah, we don't have that. So, how have you dealt with that? We don't have that at all, actually. And it's something that I'm very thankful for. I would say even going out, it's weird because it depends on where I am in the world. But I could see quite instantly, you know who I am. And it doesn't even have to be a super fan. It's just you see someone, and you can see, like, you have met me on TV or in your feed or wherever, but I haven't met you. So, that meeting sometimes can be a little strange because it's just like, am I getting you as a person or am I getting a performance of you, who you think that I want you to be, you know? So, is that hard, do you think, to find people that are relaxed around you? I don't know, because I think that everyone's so nice. I think everyone's great. And then my friends will be like, well, they weren't nice to me, but they were so nice. Yeah, yeah. People are pretty fickle about these things. And, I mean, I remember, actually, when I first got signed, and I said, but what if, you know, it was a concern of mine that I had, like, what if I have a really hard time, like, meeting friends or just, you know, like, when I, if I'm in LA a lot, how will I meet people? Because you won't be going to school, you won't do any, like, activities where you meet people. How will I meet these people? And the guy at the label, he was like, no, no, no, don't worry, don't worry about it, because when you're famous, everybody want to be your friend. Right. And he was... Brilliant, loads of fake friends. And he was super serious about it. He was like, no, no, no, no, no, there's no worries in that. When you're famous, everybody want to be your friend. Right. And it's just like, well, they might be, but are they actually my friends? Yeah, I want to kind of mix them up with some connection, like a genuine friendship. Yeah, but I think, I think I do like people, and I think you do realize in time, like, who are your real friends or not, but in the sense of going outside, like, living my life, it's been super normal, and maybe that is a Swedish thing, because sometimes, I've definitely been in situations in America, where someone is like, oh my gosh, can I please take a picture with you? And I said, yeah, of course. And then someone else wants to take a picture, and then someone else also wants to take a picture, because once they see one person walking up, it's like, oh. And then all of a sudden, this little line has been created, and I'm like, do you know who I am? And they're like, no, but we saw people like take pictures with you. It's mental. Yeah. It's definitely special, but ja, it's the law again in Sweden, which is that, like, the law of no one is better than you, but also no one's worse than you. So, it's just very socialistic, like, everyone's the same, on good and bad terms. I think it's kind of nice, actually. I think Sweden gets so many things right. Yeah. I look to Sweden and go, they're nailing it, in how you do schooling, and how you deal with, even when kids are growing up, and there's no, like, blue for boys, pink for girls. Like, all my Swedish friends are like, that is not a thing. Right. And it just feels like Sweden get a lot right. Yeah, I had a really good time growing up there, I would say. I'm very lucky to have my childhood, and still my base, even though, you know, I travel the world. I live out of my suitcase, pretty much. A lot here in London, a lot in LA, but like, Sweden's like, that's home, you know. And I feel very lucky to have grown up there, and have a strong, like, yeah, just friends and family. But I, I think I've also realized that I've not been in that position, or at that level, where it's like, I can't go anywhere, there's paparazzis, there's people following me, so I don't, I can't speak for that life. But as I've pictured, like, being an artist, even from when I was, like, for as far as I can remember, having that, I've always seen it as a part of it. It's like you're playing a role, a little bit. So, it's like a performance. You go on stage, and you perform, and you go out, and you have someone, like, following you, or fans, or paparazzi, whatever it is, and that is also a performance. And you just have to be down to play that part. For a big chunk of your life. And then when you're not that, and you are with your real friends, or you're at dinner, or you're hanging, whatever, that could be, like, the real you. But everything else, it's a performance. And I've always felt like, I'm fine with that. As long, you know, like I said, I haven't really, it's not been that extreme. And I do feel like, with the rise of, like, social media, and everybody have their own phones, that, like, mob, like, following might not be the same right now. But people might, you know, take their little sneaky pics and that. But you're on a stage that's flat, basically. That's the ground. But it's still, like, I don't know. So when you're not on stage, because, you know, from reading the interviews that you've done, it's like you're born to be on stage, right? You are a performer. You came out as a performer. And you absolutely love it. That is your safe space. That is where you can just be free and be you. What do you do to counterbalance that? Do you need time where you are in solitude, or you do quiet activities? Like, do you need to counterbalance it? I don't know, actually. The thing is, I do. I do do those things. So when I'm not on stage, let's say I had just had two days off. I didn't move. Like, I didn't, I barely went up to, like, open the door for room service. I did not, I didn't move! Like, I'm serious when I say, like, I didn't step a foot outside of my hotel room. Step count, zero. Zero. Like, barely. Like, oh, I have to go to the bathroom. So I think I do that just naturally. Yeah. But I don't feel like, if I had people around me, if I had, you know, my boyfriend's here right now, I have another friend who's here, I would go out and do things. But naturally, I am actually quite lazy, which is weird. But do you think, so you must be an extrovert, no? Because I am drained by human interaction. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Really? That gives me so much energy. Really? Like, I would actually prefer to do a lot of, like, interviews or press or whatever before, after my show, sorry, after my show, because then I feel, like, super recharged. Wow. And I'm just, like, high energy. I had a good time on stage. I've seen a lot of people in the crowd. Let's go. Like, I'm, the more people I'm with, the more energized I feel. I'm so fascinated by it, because I've done two of these today. Yeah. And I will need to go and sit in a dark room on my own for, like, an hour. I can't, because I've got kids, but I, I get out-peopled. I'm, like, I've seen too many people, and it's too many words and information, and I'm trying to process the whole thing. Right. And that takes me ages. So I think it's so fascinating. I'm envious. I could go for 24 hours straight. Wow. And just, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I love it. But I think you'd have to, to do the schedule that you guys do as pop stars, and the touring, and the interviews. But then when it turns, when it turns off, it's off. Yeah, so what happens then? Do you miss it? Do you crave it? Do you feel down? I do think laying in a bed for two days, two days is fine. But when it gets to three, four, that's what, I was really struggling in the pandemic, because I feel like I didn't have anything planned and scheduled. I mean, everything was so up in the air. Maybe it will get back to normal next month, or maybe next month, or maybe next month. If they just would have told us, like, it's going to be like this for two years, it would have been easier to manage. But I feel like I don't feel good, and I don't think anyone feels good being isolated in a small space for more than 48 hours. You need to just, like, take a walk, at least. Like, see the sky. Get a little wind in your face. But I find it really, really hard to, um, find the motivation to do that myself. That's why I think I need to just surround myself with people who are like, okay, we're going to go and do this, then I have something to do. But if I have a day with nothing scheduled, I find it almost physically impossible to go and do something. Like, I need, I need something to be in my schedule, because I can't plan it. Like, I can't do it. I am such a baby when it comes to that. And then I feel really bad after 48 hours. I feel like, ooh, actually, I'm a little anxious. Like, I should have gone down to the gym, but it's not in my schedule, so. Wow, we are the opposite in every way. Like, if I have a free day, oh, I'm working out, a little schedule for myself, I'm doing some writing, I might want to go for a walk, go for a run, like, I can fill a day. But would you feel, like, if you're not productive, would you feel like? Terrible if I'm not productive. Terrible. That's my sister. Like, even if it was two hours, I'd feel awful for not having used it to create something or do something, which is to my detriment. Yeah. Because I do need time to be idle, and I'm terrible at it. Terrible at it. But I did see a video, a video of you getting in very cold water back at home. Yeah, yeah. Is that a regular thing or something you'll try and do? I try to do it. Yeah, I love doing that. We're the same on that count then. Yeah. I love a bit of cold water. I don't love it. But I love it. That's the wrong word. But it makes you feel really good afterwards. It does. Because it shocks your system a little bit. And that's why I would need, maybe I would feel really good, you know, if I just go up and I take a super cold shower. Even just that for the rest of the day. You've done something to your nervous system. And you've done something to, like, put yourself out of that very, very comfortable bed or box or whatever. Just a little like, okay, you've pushed yourself to do something today. Yeah. I did not take cold showers. Hey, I wouldn't give yourself a hard time. You're in the middle of a tour. You've got quite a lot going on. I wouldn't worry too much. Yeah. So how will things go today? So you're going to go to the venue, you'll do the gig. After the gig, can you sleep? Like, how do you wind down and process being on stage in front of thousands of people? Yeah, because I feel a little razzed up. Yeah. I feel like, woo, like, let's go party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I might, but I do like, like, I'm not a super big party girl because I like a conversation. And I really like a one-on-one, you know, with my friends. But, um, tonight I might go for, like, a little cheers because we are in London and this show is like the friends and family one. So it'll be a lot of people there that I know. But afterwards, yeah, I try to, you know, I go back to my room. I have a little shower. And, um, the thing with me, though, is, I find it very relaxing and comfortable, like, being by myself. But I don't, like, go to sleep. I've never liked it. Really? Don't like to sleep? I don't like a day ending. It's so sad to me. Wow, we are the opposite person. Really? I can't fucking wait. Really? Can I go to bed at eight so this day's over? I'm excited to be like, ooh, I'm back in my room. It feels cozy. And now, my, like, my night time starts. And that's so exciting to me. It's like, I'm going to scroll. I'm going to do a little playlist. Wow. I might be on Pinterest. I'm going to like, hmm, how do I wonder when I make my kitchen? How do I, like, that's when it starts to me. Oh, I make lists. Oh, wow. I'll be like, oh, it's so amazing. Oh, I'm done. I'm like, oh, thank God it's dark. I'm going to bed. Wow. Yeah, I love it. Sometimes I have to trick myself when I go to sleep, like, okay, this is not a good night. This is just a nap. And that's when I can fall asleep. How interesting. I find this fascinating. And how do you feel ahead of the show? Are there nerves or do you feel completely at ease walking onto a stage like that? It depends on. I think I will feel a little bit more, like, excited. Not so nervous. I really don't like being nervous at all, but I feel excited. I feel excited because now, today, it's, like I said, it's for the friends and family and people I know. But I feel like on TV, I do get a little nervous because it's just like a very short amount of time. Oh, it's the pressure. It's a lot. It's the pressure. You sing one song, it has to be perfect. And it's online, you know, forever for people to see. But for shows, it's more about like, we're having fun. It's really a moment for everyone in that room. And, um, I just want to have a good time. And I feel like I always do. So, for that, I'm not so nervous. I feel like also, I know the show so well. And, um, yeah, everyone on stage is just vibing. Like, really having a good time. So, I don't have any rituals that I'm doing. I barely warm up, to be honest. Just get out there and do it. You just get out there and do it. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. Well, look, I hope you have an amazing show tonight. Thank you so much. In that beautiful historic venue. And just good luck with the rest of your brilliant year that you've got planned. It's been so nice chatting to you. It was so nice. Thank you for having me. Bye.