Black African Origins of Ancient Egyptian Culture with Thomas Brophy

Thinking Allowed Conversations on the leading edge of knowledge and discovery with psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove Hello and welcome, I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Today, we'll be exploring the prehistoric origins in Black Africa of ancient Egyptian culture. My guest is Professor Thomas Brophy, who is the president of the California Institute of Human Science. He has authored several books on this subject, including The Origin Map – prehistoric, megalithic, astrophysical maps of the universe – and two books co-authored with Robert Buval, Black Genesis – The Prehistoric Origins of Ancient Egypt – and Imhotep the African – Architect of the Cosmos. He is also author of a wonderful book called The Mechanism Demands a Mysticism – Explorations of Spirit, Matter and Physics. Welcome, Thomas. Thank you. It's great to be here again. It's a pleasure to be with you. In your exploration of this particular topic, you began with actual journeys into the deep, barely explored remote parts of the Sahara Desert in Egypt, some distance away from the Nile Valley. Yes. So, in Egypt, parallel to the Nile that goes north and south and just 100 kilometers or so west of that, is a sequence of oases. West of that, you have the desert, the Egyptian Sahara Desert, and that goes through, you know, south to the Central Africa Sahara Desert. And the region in the southwest corner of Egypt, where Egypt meets Libya and Sudan, there is a area called Jebel Wainat and Gilf Kabir. And to that region is where I went with Robert Bouval on a little expedition to study some very interesting recent finds in this very remote region. It's four days by four-wheel-drive Jeep from the nearest house or inhabitant of any kind. And it's an extremely remote region. Not even dirt roads, I gather. That's right. That's right. And it doesn't rain. So, there are occasionally Jeeps like ours that go there. And so there's a kind of Jeep tracks in some places. I understand that archaeologists had assumed, because the desert is so arid, I guess you said it hadn't rained in thousands of years. Yeah, that area became hyper-arid, extreme desert around 3400 BC. But before that, the climate was different. Yes. Yes, it was more moderate. There were seasonal rains and at the site that I studied, the ancient site that I studied, Naptaplaya, even that would fill up seasonally as a seasonal lake bed. They call it a playa. We call it playa now. And as I understand it, you found, for example, cave paintings and rock drawings showing giraffes and other animals, jungle animals, at one time, were depicted in the artwork. Yes. Yeah, there are giraffes and animals like that depicted in the rock art. And we went there to visit a beautifully painted prehistoric cave that was discovered in that region, just discovered in 2007. We went there. We were the second group to go there in 2008. We went with the discoverer of the cave. It has on the ceiling very beautiful prehistoric rock art depicting the people who lived there and their raising of cattle and various domestic scenes and that sort of thing. We're talking about black Africans. Yes. In this area, as I understand it, Egyptian archaeologists and Egyptologists have largely suggested that the ancient Egyptian culture developed independently of black Africa. That's sort of the conventional viewpoint. Yes, that's sort of the conventional view that had been that had been followed. And recently, though, it is changing because, as you mentioned, related to the find of the art, the rock art, in that region, there was also found, actually by the same people, a hieroglyph, a name of a Middle Kingdom king, Egyptian pharaoh. And that really changed ideas in this regard because the area is now, and has been since 3000 BC, so extreme desert. It was assumed there was no travel to that area from even dynastic times of ancient Egypt. The commerce would have been impossible. Right. Because of the climate. But now, the hieroglyphic discovery showed that Egyptians were able to travel that far themselves. Yes. Mm-hmm. Now, you approached this as an astrophysicist. That's your background. You worked for NASA, as I recall, on the Voyager 2 project. That's right. Yeah, it was wonderful working. The team I did my doctoral dissertation with had an instrument on board the Voyager 2. Mm-hmm. And it was a wonderful project. So, at one of these locations you described, the Napta Playa, which became a lakebed, filled partially during the year. A seasonal lake. A seasonal lake. There were discovered there, and you personally went to study megalithic structures, very ancient, prehistoric, that had archaeoastronomical significance. Yes. Yes, I went there to study them and measure them. Because the initial report had some things that didn't add up in the data of where these large stones that were reported to align with stars, as to their locations and which stars they aligned with, there were some discrepancies there. So, one of the things I wanted to do was to measure the actual locations myself with a little handheld GPS. Mm-hmm. And I was able to get there, tag along with a kind of a remote adventure travel group. Just two Jeeps that were going through the region. And I was able to do that. Mm-hmm. And let's talk about what you learned. So, I studied, I got the measures of the locations of these megalithic stones, and studied the alignment of them with stars, and how they aligned with particular stars as they moved through the precession of the equinox. Let's define for our viewers now. Not everyone will understand the precession of the equinoxes, which is very important for archaeoastronomy. Yes. Because the Earth's spin axis, you know, the Earth spins on this axis every 24 hours, the North Pole that the Earth spins around, it rotates, it wobbles on a cycle of about 26,000 years. So, it points at a different location in the sky as it moves through that whole cycle. Mm-hmm. And that's called the precession of the equinoxes. And because of that motion, the apparent location of stars in the sky relative to Earth change over that same cycle. And that's what gives us what we call in the West the Zodiac Ages, like the Age of Aquarius and the Age of Pisces. And the Age of Taurus, the Age of Aries proceeding, as I understand it astrologically speaking, these ages have to do with the constellation that's on the horizon at the moment of the spring equinox. Yes, it's the constellation that the Sun is in at the moment of the spring equinox. Mm-hmm. Yes. So, and that is going to every two 2,500, 2,600 years or so, that changes. Yeah, it's constantly moving. So, you just divide 26,000 by 12 and you get about 2,400 years that the apparent location of the Sun moves through those different Zodiac constellations. Mm-hmm. And this was understood by, at least by the ancient Greeks, probably by the ancient Persians, but maybe the ancient Sumerians who were students of astrology. Your findings suggest, if I understand it, that the procession of the equinoxes was understood by these prehistoric people in Black Africa who created these particular megaliths like an astronomical calendar, sometimes called the Stonehenge of the Sahara. Yes. The Napta Playa find was announced by CNN as the Stonehenge of the Sahara. It's a fascinating site. It does have megaliths and however, the calendar circle that got a lot of attention was composed of, is composed of smaller stones that come up to about your knee. But they are in, that forms a very interesting calendar circle, which has a strong astronomical meaning. And that calendar circle is in a complex of megalithic large stone structures and alignments as well. Mm-hmm. Do we know anything at all about the people who created these structures? Yes, they're, we know they were Black African people. Their remains are studied anthropologically and they were the people inhabiting the region of the time. I understand that they also seem to have some sort of religious cult involving the ceremonial rituals that had to do with the the cow. The cow was very important to them. Yes, the cattle cult and the the Sirius and the cattle iconography was very important to them as well as in ancient Egypt, which came later, in ancient Egyptian civilization. And at Nefta Playa, there were not found any graves of humans. No human kings or leaders graves were found, but a very finely constructed grave of a cow was found. Which is something similar to what you will find in ancient Egypt. Yes. Where, like the Serapium, where there's a whole large enormous complex with embalmed bulls. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So there are many elements clearly of the culture that was operating at Nefta Playa in the earlier time that moved to the Nile Valley and became the ancient Egyptian dynastic civilization. And one of the important correlations is the, which you as an astrophysicist studying archaeoastronomy pay attention to, is similar alignments found in the Giza Plateau, where the Great Pyramids are. Yeah, similar astronomy, similar astronomical functioning of the monuments. Like a very clear one is, and easy to understand, is that in ancient Egypt, the New Year was heralded by the heliacal rising of Sirius. Now, it's a big word, but all that means is the first sighting of the star Sirius of the year, just before sunrise. So that heliacal means rising before the Sun. And so stars go through a cycle where they disappear because they're too close to the Sun, you can't see them, and then they reappear just before dawn. It's called the heliacal rising. So in ancient Egypt, the heliacal rising of Sirius heralded the timing of the floods, the Nile flooding from the monsoon rains that, well, they didn't know necessarily that the monsoon rains were south and flooding the Nile, but the Nile flooded every year at about the same time, just after the heliacal rising of Sirius. So there were monuments, temples, in Old Kingdom Egypt that were rebuilt to track the rising of Sirius as it moved with their alignment of the temples was rebuilt to track the rising of Sirius as it moved through precession motion. And we found the same thing at Neb to Playa. These megalithic stone alignments, they tracked the rising of Sirius and other stars as they moved through precession. And the heliacal rising of Sirius at Neb to Playa had these dual alignments where they put megalithic stone alignment towards the north that would track a line with a circumpolar star. We call it the Big Dipper, the ancient Egyptians call it the Boles Thai constellation, the stars that go around the North Pole star, at the same time that the star Sirius rose in the east, the heliacal rising. And so for the ancient, the Neb to Playa people, they were clearly tracking the same stars and probably for the same reason. Because like it was a seasonal lake, Neb to Playa was, well these monsoon rains filled up the lake seasonally at the same time, about the same time of year. So they would have naturally wanted to track their calendar, the same events, astronomically, with the same stars as we can see that they did with these large stone alignments. And then at about 3500 BC, the monsoon rains pattern moved further south. So Neb to Playa region became extreme desert and had to be abandoned and that's when the same, the culture, the ancient Egyptian dynastic culture that shows many of the same alignments pops up in the Nile Valley. So you're suggesting maybe these people migrated north? Yes, yes, or their culture did. Well, really, really east to the Nile Valley. Mm-hmm. East and north. East and north. Yeah. I see. So today in Egypt the archaeologists often refer to, and I've been there, to connections between ancient Egyptian culture and the Sumerian culture and the Crete culture and the Persian culture. Yet when you visit Egypt, especially around the Aswan and the southern part of the Nile, you see mostly black people. Yes, yeah, and we know from the anthropological evidence that the people just predating the dynastic civilization in the Neb to Playa region were black African people. I mean, it's a significant discovery, I would think, because amongst other things these black people had a very sophisticated understanding of astronomy. It looks like that. Yes, there's suggestions of that in the ancient site of Neb to Playa and elsewhere. And it took a while, as I understand it, for conventional Egyptologists to acknowledge any of the archaeoastronomy, the correlations found by some of your colleagues. Yes, yes, like the Orion correlation of the Great Pyramids with the stars of Orion's Belt. It's still controversial. But you found correlations with Orion in Neb to Playa. Yes, with the stars of Orion's Belt and the Orion constellation at Neb to Playa. That's right. Yes, so there's this very clear link from the astronomy at Neb to Playa at around the time 4000 BC that the culture moved to the Nile Valley and also Neb to Playa as a site is much more ancient as well. There's radiocarbon dating going back to around 9,000 BC at Neb to Playa. And there's also astronomical evidence of astronomical alignments that go back in further in time as well. And like the calendar circle that made the site famous, it has this, it probably represents the stars of Orion's Belt at the spring equinox, their spring equinox heliacal rising around 6,000 BC. And it's a nice little diagram that demonstrates how they were seen in the sky and their location in the sky as well as the timing with the summer solstice of them rising. Demonstrated in this calendar circle diagram that I suggest also was a sort of a teaching diagram that demonstrated the precession motion of the sky, the long-term precession motion. Well, it's very interesting that a pre-literate culture, as far as we know, there was certainly no written language at that time, could develop advanced ideas of astronomy. Yes, yes, if they had this advanced knowledge, it's mysterious. You know, you could speculate basically three basic types, basic ways that they could have gotten this knowledge. Okay, suppose they had advanced knowledge of astronomy, as their suggestions that they might have had in the monuments. How did they get that knowledge? How did they know that? Basically three types. Some other group or beings told them or gave them the knowledge, or they could have had the knowledge passed down to them from a much more ancient, maybe high civilization of the past, or they could have gotten the knowledge through other types of means, like intuitive means or paranormal, parapsychological methods. So, to summarize it maybe in more popular language, we're talking about ancient aliens on the one hand, or an ancient breakaway civilization, or remote viewing. Yes. Or three possibilities, and I'm sure there are advocates for each of those. Yes, yep, there are advocates for each of those that like to connect with my work on the ancient monuments of astronomy. Now, but you, having been a NASA scientist, didn't go down there with an agenda of any kind, to my understanding. No, I saw it as a puzzle, as a puzzle. So, the first the first technical archaeological report of the site mentioned the alignment that these stones were probably, these megalithic stones were probably aligned with stars, and it mentioned their data for their location of the stones, and as I said, I found there's some discrepancies there, so I was just very interested in it as a puzzle. So, I studied the site, I went there, and I studied it as a as a puzzle. Mm-hmm. You weren't concerned about any of the political controversies concerning the origins of ancient Egyptian culture? That's right. I was not at the time concerned with that, and after I published the the one book, the the origin map, I was actually a little surprised that some of the most enthusiastic response I got was from black African scholars, and because they saw the importance of that for connecting the ancient Egyptian civilization with black African origins. Mm-hmm. And I wasn't even thinking of that when I studied the site. Yeah. But I was happy that it came out that way. Mm-hmm. And on the other hand, when I read the book you co-authored with Robert Bouval, Black Genesis. Yes. He described two, you could call them, academic camps, the Afrocentric and the Eurocentric camp, in terms of the origin of Egyptian culture, and he said neither one is being scientific if they're arguing for a political viewpoint and just trying to muster the evidence that supports their viewpoint and ignoring the other evidence that your interest in going there was just to look at the data and see where it led. Yes. Yes. I like to follow the evidence, and to me, I know I thought of it as a human, ancient human project. Yeah. But it just, I didn't care about which race of humans it was at the time. But you did point out that Egyptian guidebooks that were popular had some very racist descriptions about the attitude of Egyptians toward different racial groups. Yes, you'll see even in the current guidebooks, probably a kind of a hierarchical description of the views of the races. Yes. Mm-hmm. And so many Egyptians today, who probably think of themselves primarily as Mediterranean people, even though they're on the African continent, look down at the idea that their very powerful ancient culture might have emerged out of black Africa. Yeah, and it's clearly obviously a modern ethnic view or ethnic mindset that leads to that kind of thinking, not any evidence from ancient history, I don't think. So, also as a astrophysicist, you began to look more deeply at what these calendars and megaliths might be pointing to, in addition to some of the obvious correlations having to do with the spring equinox and the constellation Orion and the star Sirius. As I understand it, you found a number of other correlations that would seem almost impossible for ancient people to have come up with. Yes. So, as studying the site and looking at it as like a puzzle, an astronomical puzzle, I found a series of correlations, and the sort of most prosaic ones, like I just mentioned about the alignment with the rising of Sirius and the circumpolar stars, those are now accepted by the conventional archaeological-anthropological community. Then there's more that go on from there, and the site itself is much more ancient. So, it became hyper-arid around 3500 BC, and it was abandoned. But there's radiocarbon dates going back to about 9000 BC, and there's also evidence, there's other evidence, that the monuments were being built and maintained over those thousands of years. Some of the megalithic stones are polished and even appear to be sculptures. Yes, at the there's sort of a centerpiece of the Napta Playa complex that just got the name Complex Structure A, and it's at the center. So, the large stones arranged in lines that point to stars, all these lines of megalithic stones radiate out from one point, like a hub. That's Complex Structure A, and Complex Structure A is in a field of many other complex structures, and I call it complex structures because they're built on, remember, it's a playa, it's a seasonal lake. So, over the seasons, over thousands of years, the sediments built up in the lake. And it's only a seasonal lake, so half the year it's dry, and part of the year it's wet. And so, these sediments are known to have built up over thousands of years, 9000 BC to 4000 BC, and these complex structures are built in those sediments, and they include, so at the bottom of the sediments is the bedrock, or the rock bottom of the playa, and in each of these complex structures, at the bottom of the structure, underneath all the sand, the playa sediments, on the bedrock, there's a sculpted lump of stone, a sculpture. And so, at Complex Structure A, there was, at the bottom, the sculpted lump of stone, and then chalked in place on top of that was this polished sculpture, geometric, strange sculpture that you mentioned. At the time it was discovered, it was thought of as the earliest megalithic sculpture known, and then, so, that was placed there, and then the sediments were put back in, and on top of all that, there was a megalithic surface structure, this complex structure. So, it would appear that, based on this observation, that this area was inhabited over a period of maybe 5,000 years, from 9,000 BC to 4,000 BC. That's right. That's right. And these sediments were building up, and these structures were being maintained. Because, so, when these complex structures were found, the initial hypothesis was that they were all created near the time, the late period, late megalithic period, just before the site was abandoned. And so, it was hypothesized, so this was after all the sediments were laid down, the sand was already there, that the people at that time, they somehow, they somehow knew where there were lumps at the bottom of the sediments underneath. They dug a hole, and sculpted the lump on the bedrock of stone, and then filled the sand back in, and put the megalithic sculptures on top. that was considered, actually, I suggested that that was kind of a convoluted explanation. A simpler explanation could be that the bedrock sculptures that are on the sediments, underneath the sediments, were sculpted before the sediments were there. And they were maintained over the millennia as important monuments. And what we find now, these complex sculptures, are the maintenance of those over the millennia. So, a culture that had some sort of stable community for thousands of years could well be equipped to gain knowledge of the procession of the equinoxes. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. But you learned through your observations, or you hypothesized that their astronomical knowledge could be far more detailed than just that. That's right. I found correlations that suggested that. The distance at which the megalithic stones that point to particular stars, like of Orion's belt, the distance on the ground could be correlated, the relative distance on the ground of the lines could be correlated with the relative distance to the actual stars. Distance to the stars. Yeah, that's kind of a crazy idea, but there's this correlation there. Yeah, and you looked at this with the precision of an astrophysicist. Yes. And you have, as you've explained it to me, some of the measurements you have more confidence in than others, but overall you feel pretty confident about this. The basic alignments and the that they did track the stars as they moved through precession, that's really pretty well accepted. And actually the explanation that the bedrock sculptures were probably older than the early hypothesis. Even that was accepted or came around to that view by the anthropological, archaeological team that's an official excavator. Well, it's understandable that conventional astronomers and archaeologists and archaeoastronomers and Egyptologists are going to balk at the idea that some preliterate African people could measure the distance from the earth to different stars. That requires today to do that, that sophisticated equipment. That's right. That's right. So that's and and the that stone sculpture in the center of complex structure A that had the interesting geometric shape and the outer edge of it was reported to be found as like polished, a polished surface. And you can see from the images if you measure them that it was in a like a spherical, a very finely made spherical section and it was chalked in place on top of the bedrock sculpture. And I found that it basically subtended and maybe demonstrated the apparent motion of the center of the galaxy as it moved through precession as well as the stars. And so that's that brings up another problem. If you think that might have been what the people were tracking because the center of the galaxy is not a visual object. It's not a visual sky object. But other other ancient cultures we know have have held important astronomical importance through visual astronomy to the center of the galaxy for other reasons, too. Yeah, you can kind of see where it is, even though you don't see any bright star there. But so that's I make that suggestion in the book as well. And the bedrock sculpture that's at the center there underneath all the sediments and that the stone was the sculpture was placed on top of it, I suggest it looks like a map of the galaxy itself. So the the excavators of the site they, you know, made a map and a drawing of this find and the way that they placed the center of the drawing being the center of all these alignments was measured at a location on the sculpture which would be consistent if you thought of it as a sculpture of the galaxy of where the Sun and Earth happen to be and in the galaxy. That's fascinating. Yeah. But as I recall you went even further than that. Yes. You talked about the velocity of stars as they move. Yes, so I just kept finding these correlations as a puzzle. I just kept taking that further. Mm-hmm. Now, I'm sure a lot of people might say, well, there's so many different numbers and you're putting it all together. There's a risk that maybe you're projecting some ideas onto a random pattern. Yeah, yeah, I understand that that that criticism and this is a puzzle. It's a description of correlations that I found there. Look, I mean, not everybody can go and do the actual measurements, but that's what you did. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, so this these correlations, the existence of the correlations is not proof that that's what the builders of the stones intended, right? with the the alignment of the helical rising of Sirius that we found moved in the same alignments being tracked in the Old Kingdom Egypt, that's additional cultural evidence that that's what was really meant by those stone alignments. For these other sort of more extreme correlations, we don't have that kind of additional cultural evidence that that's what was really meant. And that's why I was I got really intrigued by the bedrock sculptures that are much more ancient. I got my colleague from when I was doing planetary science to get interested in this because we tried to get access to remote sensing data that could see under the sand to see if this maybe this whole Playa Basin bedrock has sculpted meaning perhaps. Mm-hmm. But we don't have the data yet high enough resolution to be able to see underneath the sands what's really there. In other words, the investigations are continuing. Yes. Mm-hmm. And and so to summarize you found some very important correlations between some of the basic obvious well-acknowledged astrological, well astrological and astronomical correlations between these megaliths and the calendar stones at Napta Playa and elsewhere in in the Sahara as well. You mentioned Yes, Bagnol calendar. Yeah Bagnol circle is even more remote. It's out in that Jebel Iwanot region that I mentioned near near the Near Libya. Hundreds of kilometers further into the desert. Yes much more remote and We it's named after Ralph Bagnol who was a physicist enlisted by the British around the time of World War two for something called the long-range desert expedition where for military reasons they were exploring this area of North Africa and he stumbled on this very ancient circle. It's now called Bagnol circle and It's it's in such a remote region that It had not been formally at the time that we visited in 2008. It had not been formally visited by any Archaeologists. You were the first person to make precise measurement. Yes It hadn't even been measured precisely which way is north and south on the circle there and as I recall it Very much resembled the calendar stones at Napta Playa. Yes stones Bagnol circle is about are about the same size they come up to about your knee and a Bagnol circle is about twice as big as the the the Napta Playa circle, but there's a lot of resemblances and we found some sort of obvious Simple astronomy and Bagnol simple astronomy at least in Bagnol circle with like the north South the north stones the north south aligned stones in a circle Colored black and the east-west the color of white and since There's clearly at least some basic astronomical meaning in Bagnol circle as well. Mm-hmm now Another point. I think it's worth bringing up. You mentioned the significance of the star Sirius both to the ancient Egyptians and to the people at Napta Playa having to do with the monsoon rains and signifying very important Meteorological Ecological events for for these people. There's another book I'm aware of by Robert Temple called the Sirius mystery in which he looks at the Dogon people who I think are in Sub-Saharan Africa who they call themselves, I think the people of the dog Star because they they regard Sirius as Where their ancestors came from? Yes, and That that's more connection with the possibility that the roots of the dynastic Egyptian civilization culture came from like North Central Africa mm-hmm, and if you follow the line from like Giza to the Cartouche and why not? Just keep going you get to like Central Africa that region you co-authored two books with Robert Buval He's also well known as I understand it for for the Orion correlations at the Giza Plateau you you also have an introduction by Robert Shock a Geologist who has argued very strongly that the Sphinx is much older than had previously Been thought that it's weathered by water damage which suggests that it was and I've been there you can see it It's it's plain to the eye. It looks like water damage Yes Yeah at the Sphinx said which would have had to have occurred prior to 3,000 BC Geophysically it is probably Weathering from running water on the Giza Plateau that made the weathering patterns that we see on on the Sphinx enclosure and That you just combine that with paleo climatology and that means that That if it is water running water weathering it had to have been At the time when there was rains Heavy rains and that was more than 5,000 BC I think is is where shock days it and that's why He shock was also very interested in that to playa because it was around that dates to run You know 6,000 BC as well another point in in the book African Genesis is Is that if you look carefully at the face of the Sphinx it does seem to? Suggest the face of a black African That's right. There's another Point to another another point of resemblance. I think it's fair to say as a scholar that you're You're not an afro centrist. You're not trying to argue one way or the other you're Showing this is the evidence we found and it may take scholars a long time to Decipher all of these mysteries are there many other mysteries associated with ancient cultures and new Discoveries all the time that you such as you pointed out it go blecky Tepe and Turkey. Yes After I studied no Now to playa, you know, there was the very there is the very recent discovery I go back to Lee Tepe in Turkey, which site is even older I think it dates back to 10 to 12 thousand BC and it's large stone megalithic that is another game changer as far as the standard understanding of Ancient ancient civilization when I grew up and went to school it it was thought that you know The earliest civilizations were in Samaria Yes And that that's now all being challenged and I suppose it's reasonable to expect that there will be future Discoveries as well. Yeah, and so the redating of the Sphinx through the geophysical weathering One of the resistances to that when it would initially came out was well, there was nothing else that old So it couldn't be that old Then we found that the playa and I'll go back Lee Tepe and other places and so that reasoning is just gone away There were prehistoric cultures. We call them prehistoric which may Means they're not part of our current history. Yes, but you've also pointed out That there are scripts that have yet to be deciphered. These people may well have had a written language There's a lot of engraved art and there are some engraved That clearly look like they look to me like sort of like linear a which is another undeciphered script in that region Yes, I see. Well, this is a fascinating exploration. I should just say before we close our discussion you also Make a point of the possibility of anomalous cognition or remote viewing as as a tool that these ancient people had mastered and with regard to their knowledge of the center of the galaxy you referred to some interesting research by a Parapsychologist James Spottiswood who did correlations of remote viewing and I've spoken to Spottiswood about it. He himself isn't certain whether this is a replicable finding But it would seem as if at 13 hours and 30 minutes of local sidereal time Remote viewing is greatly enhanced. I'm glad you brought that up. Yes What I understand Spottiswood and Spottiswood may actually mention that may Did was they did a meta-analysis of all the good a meta-analysis of all the good anomalous cognition experiments and They were looking for Correlations looking for if there was something like a time of day or a time of year when the when when the Experiments got good results or positive results and they couldn't find anything until finally they looked According to a sidereal time. Mm-hmm, and they found a very strong peak a very strong peak at that at a particular time Yeah, sidereal time is time with respect to the stars. The center of galaxy is essentially a star It's a location in the sky that moves with the same time as the stars. It turns out 1330 sidereal time is roughly when the center of galaxy Rises above the horizon. I Speculate hmm. Maybe there's maybe there's some connection there to our anomalous cognition Capacity to the center of the galaxy and it was sensitivity Regarding the center of the galaxy some kind of some kind of connection and who knows if you push it a little farther Okay, what what is that the center of the galaxy? We know now there's a supermassive black hole there Right now so what is a black hole black hole is a it's a singularity and space and time What are the reports of the deepest phases of meditation like they say? Well, you go into a state of experiences beyond space and time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. This is just a correlation at this point It's it's not a physical mechanism Correlation, but there's something interesting there. There's another little interesting bit there too. We're gonna take this further the center of galaxy is about about 25,000 light-years away almost the same duration as procession of the equinox. Mm-hmm. So there's an interesting Correlation there, too. I see. Well, we're at a level now where all we can do is speculate on this stuff Yes. Yeah, but it is fascinating. Yeah, and I think speculation Can be healthy if you take it lightly Don't get overly hung up on your speculations and I think there's nothing I was speculating and and surely in this area there are going to be a lot of speculations, but what you've explained to me now is that the larger community of archaeologists and archaeoastronomers are are now coming to an acceptance of the correlation for example of the Giza pyramids with the belt of Orion I think there is there's gradually more acceptance of that and there's there's been more acceptance that More ancient than was assumed people did track the procession of the equinox. Yeah Yeah, so that's very significant work. I'm happy to share it with our viewers Thomas Brophy, thank you so much for being with me. It's my pleasure. Thank you and thank you for being with us