The Waltons - Bruce Davison Pt. 2 - behind the scenes with Judy Norton

Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Scenes of the Waltons, as I conclude my conversation with Bruce Davison. Please welcome back, Bruce. I wanted to, just because I get asked the question back to the Waltons for a second, what was your sense or your sense now about this tradition of a chivalry? Oh, well, so many of these country traditions are still with us to this day. And it's always the guys that have to prove it. So it's like, prove yourself a man, prove yourself. If you want to go through this, it goes back to the Stone Age. You bring me the skin of a lion that you've killed with a spear, and you become this bigger person. And the chivalry owes to that. I mean, it owes to the old male tradition of, OK, we're going to put you in a situation that you're really going to have to fight your way out of to prove you're a man. And in the wedding situation, it can be more lighthearted, but it's still based on that same sort of, OK, prove yourself. Let's see you prove yourself. So that's sort of what the chivalry was in the Waltons. And, you know, this stuck up guy coming into this country. Existence isn't aware of anything, and it's a totally unknown world to him. He's in love with his wife, and that's where she comes from, and that's who her people are. But he has no idea. He's completely lost in the jungle. So when this comes along, he doesn't take it too well. Doesn't happen with the best tradition. Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't because I was so young when we did the episode that I'd never heard of that as a tradition. And it's like, OK, here's a script and we're doing it. But then when I look back at it now and at characters, particularly like John Boy, you know how he was so engaged and thought it was all great. And these times when it seems like contradictions within our characters that have been established on a show. And yet I always think that we as people have so many sides to ourselves that we are not always from the outside predictable. So when Richard was wonderful about Earl Hamner and his writing, because he gave each of you an opportunity to emerge as a person as you grew up, he gave you that opportunity to have those conflicts that are typical. I mean, he would take each one of the characters and you could see something about them in their growth that would happen. You know, I remember even little Tammy coming coming up and suddenly she's faced with growing older and and and how everyone responds to that. I mean, the heart of Earl Hamner's writing was always family. And it was about real people that existed and his life somewhere in there because it all had that, you know, genuine feeling that these people are truly someone we know. And that was the key to the show as well. We know these people. We know what they're going through. We know what they feel because we're doing it, too. Yeah, same kind of thing. I was lucky I just did a film that has a similar feel to it by somebody. It's it's called the 25 Miles to Normal, and it's basically the estrangement between his son and his father and his father and a divorced home and how people always really fall into patterns and feel about each other. And I thought of the Waltons when I was doing it because it had the same genuine feeling of family. These are real people. These are these are real consequences that they're going through. Yeah. Did you have a chance to work on any other projects of Earl's after? Of which? Earl? No, I didn't. I worked with Richard a lot. We did a lot of stuff together. In fact, when we did we did a play called Streamers that you mentioned earlier. And one night in the middle of it, it's a it's a tale. And you meet these three guys waiting to go to Vietnam and their kids and they're young and they've got all these things going on. And it ends in the second act. Suddenly, out of nowhere, somebody stabbed and starts to bleed to death on stage. And we watched this happen. And every at least once a week, somebody would pass out in the audience and they'd have to scream for help. My husband, my husband, because it was after Vietnam and it was and it got. So one night during the course of this, Richard, who got stabbed, kicked and broke his toe on the bed in the middle of, you know, he could flail around a bit and he ended up across the street at UCLA in the emergency room. And he was and another guy in the audience had passed out. And they took him over there and he was sitting in the bed next to Richard woke up, he said, how the play and because I lived. I live here. Exactly. Yeah. Now that third actor in the show, because I think it was an actor I knew. Was it Richard Lawson or something? Yes. Richard Lawson. There were a bunch of and Herb Jefferson were two other actors in it. Also, Charlie. Charlie Durning was in it. Oh, yeah. He was he became a good friend over the years, poker, poker playing buddy. Yeah. And he had a great lesson for me, too. One time, because I remember I was sitting with, I think, him and George Segal and Michael Lerner and myself at this game. And we were bitching and complaining about having to drive all the way down to Newport Beach to sit on a bench for an hour to put ourselves on videotape for some 19 year old girl who didn't know who any of us were. And we're all kidding. And then Charlie Durning looks up from his cards and says. Gives you a chance to. And I still carry that with me. Because Charlie was, you know, Charlie Durning was incredible war hero. I mean, he got up on the first wave at Omaha Beach. Wow. Hand to hand combat. I'd say, how can you cry like that every night? He says, I think about my life. You don't learn about that until you're older. Wow. Yeah. Well, do you have having done a ton of film and television and also a lot of stage? Do you have a preference? I know Richard loves doing theater. Theater. Yeah, well, Richard has spent a lot more time on theater. In fact, I watched Richard do Paragant, which is the longest speaking play ever written. And I watched him do that. And he he just is incredible. He's always a good egg, too. He's always great. You know, you're safe with Richard. Yeah. Stage and infill. Yeah. Because there's nobody, I think, more generous than Richard. Yeah. No, I learned so many lessons from being around him and getting to work with him for all those years that I think a lot of us did. You know, the younger cast, it's sort of if you're going to want to emulate somebody, it was, you know, it was him. It was his his work ethic and his total commitment to every scene on or off. You know, if he was off camera, he didn't he didn't walk through it when it was your close up because. No, exactly. And he and he did it in a generous, gentle way. I've been with other actors who, you know, are great, but sometimes they got to, you know, they're they're very pushy with youngsters and kids to get what they want. It's kind of a savage business for somebody young growing up. And that's what, you know, I often wondered what your experience was going through that. You were certainly the eldest of the other children, but it must have been quite an experience to go through that, especially with the directors that you would meet from week to week. Yeah, I had a little me and a few of the others like I had started when I was about six or seven and I had done a fair bit of theater. I was with a repertory company for about three years right before the Waltons, an actor, Jonathan Daly. I don't know if you ever crossed paths with this. Yeah. So Jonathan ran this little sort of theater company that was also like an acting class. And so I was my sister was in the company for a while, but I was like the only child in the company. And I had originally worked with him. He directed a production of Wait Until Dark, and I was the little girl in it. And then he invited me to join this this company that he had. He would write the plays and direct them for the company. So we had a little tiny, whatever, less than 99 seat, a little 60 seat house or something. And when we weren't doing a show, he would have classes and then he would write material for the people in the class so that he was always working on giving us new challenges. So I'd had all that wonderful experience before I came to the Waltons, which, of course, theater is such a great training ground. But, you know, then you start doing a TV series. And as a teenager, I think the toughest thing was more not the work itself, but as a person dealing with all of it. And, you know, I went through the believing my own press and being very important and, you know, having to kind of get smacked back down to go, hey, you know, you're a little full of yourself and get over yourself. You know, so those types of lessons, which I think I don't know if they're any easier as an adult, but I found it challenging as a as a young person to go through that part of it. Yeah. Well, so did I. And I was older. I was in my 20s. And it's very tough, you know, not really knowing what you're doing yet, but getting all of this praise and everything for it. Then suddenly, where'd that go? Yeah. And that's that's a that's a tough one. I met so many child actors in the course of the business, too. One I became good friends with was Tony Dow. Oh, yeah. I worked with Tony. Yeah. Leave it to Beaver. We did theater together. Yes. Well, he became a great director, too. He directed shows on Harry and the Hendersons. But he told me how tough that was being a being a child actor. And he was part of a group of Paul. Peterson. Paul Peterson. And it was. Yeah. So being a child actor is not all, you know, is not everything it's cracked up to be. And, yeah, you know. We felt lucky to have each other. Yeah. Show that there were six of us and and to go through some of those difficult times. It was a soft landing place because of the safety of that environment. And, you know, you could I could have those sorts of things. And it gave me a place to get through it, recognize that really wasn't the path forward. Whereas if I'd just been doing other jobs, you know, I might have been fired. And, you know, it's like you're we don't want to deal with you. Cry out. Teach you to cry. But it must have been tough. I can imagine. Well, how long did the Waltons run? How many years was nine? Nine seasons. Yeah. A long time for a child. Yeah. Went up to do within it. It's good you you had the other kids with you. I think the difference is always in the directors. You know, lots of times directors are coming in. They're like the new person to lots of times unless you find the right guy to keep doing or the right woman to keep, you know, working with that. But I yeah, I've often felt for children that I've had to work with. What must they be going through now? You didn't. I mean, you you did. Was Harry and the Hendersons kind of the longest you spent on a single show? Seventy two episodes. And nobody's ever seen it now because it was all divided up between, I guess, Amblin and CBS and so many other people. And everybody gets a cut. So it doesn't play anymore anywhere because it's not cost effective. Wow. Who has a Kurt Vonnegut that says, you know, humanity will be destroyed because it's not cost effective. Was it you? You didn't do series after series after series as a series regular. Was that something you would have liked to have done? Or it depends on the series, really, you know, and there's not a lot that I'd like to get sucked into for a long time. I did do a Stephen King series that didn't go past the first year, but it was a good series. But Stephen was got hit by a car and was in the oxygen tent and everything else through a lot of it. So things that didn't quite gel weren't able to be fixed. And it has some brilliant stuff in it. But, you know, it's very sporadic. But I shot that up in Vancouver called Kingdom Hospital. OK, but we've, you know, remained friends over the years. I really in fact, he has a painting of mine. And he's he's, you know, his stuff is is much more insular. You know, it's miniseries, mostly stuff based on so many of his books. But that could have gone, I thought. But that that didn't that didn't last. We were on a big network, too. So the chopping block is a lot closer. Yeah. The bigger networks and what exists now. I mean, now, you know, everything's out there. Yeah. Those can be done and be done and continue. Yeah. It's not up to the big three. Right. Which makes more room for other things and specialty sort of projects. And it doesn't have to appeal to as broad a demographic. And right. Yeah. But yeah, it comes with its challenges, too. Now, along the way, you also started doing some directing. Yes, as a matter of fact, and I'm so sorry that you got your face was cut out on that scene because I had a great idea of the parents fighting, but it was about the children. And we had a situation where it was supposed to be outside and we were shooting Florida. Right. Coover. Yes. So I had two palm trees. I kept moving around. Colts and Bjorn. I love it. And there's only one flat place there. And it's next to the airport. So I was working with Hume Cronin, who was 94 time and got an Emmy nomination for it, I might say. Yes. And you didn't you win? I was nominated as director, but it was nominated for five of them and won three. Yeah. This is this for the audience. This is a really sweet movie TV movie called Off Season that I was one of the last things I shot up in Vancouver before I moved back to the States. And right. I mean, it was lovely. Yeah, it rained. What I remember for me, because I was there. That's what happened. We were all supposed to do this outside with you and your husband at each other's throats fighting and the kids just sitting in the corner. But we were inside. So it had to take place on the stairwell. Yeah. And so all I could do is hear the fight in the background affecting the little girl. And I'm sorry because I. Oh, no. I mean, it's as as you said, always, you know, a chance to act. So I was I was just happy to be included and happy to get to work with you again. And, you know, just disappointed we didn't get to do more together together. I will. I would have loved. Yeah, I would have loved that. And it was human saying that poor has got to be 84 degrees or I'm not stepping into it because I'm 94 years old and I'm not going to die of pneumonia on a movie of the week. Yeah, I don't blame him. It was one of those funny you've probably had those days as an actor. I was on set about 12 hours. You know, we started off. We were supposed to do the pool. So it's like they got me ready for the pool and then like it's raining. We got to move to the studio. So it's like, OK, go there. And it's like, OK, we're going to do this scene instead. So change your clothes. OK, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, we're going to do this instead. I must have changed my clothes five times before I finally they went, OK, this is what we're going to do because they were clearly working on the fly. And so I do to do to do. You know, I did a lot of hanging around, kept changing my clothes, trying to make that whole scene work with five people. And and suddenly I only had one little set to do. Yeah. Instead of this whole, yes, swimming pool. No, totally understand. So that's that's the way I just I just watched it again recently. And it's such a sweet little movie. I mean, it's that that whole sort of take on Miracle on 34th Street. Yes. You know, I tried the director one and he was very nice. He thanked me, said, thank you so much for not making sugar as a spice to honey, because it was a very sentimental story. And I didn't want to, you know, slap that on, slather that on. I wanted to pull it back a little bit, make the people as real as possible. Yeah. Like I said, I thought it was very clever and, you know, and really well done. So congratulations. You know, thank you. Something I noticed when I rewatched offseason recently was in the credits that you were one of the co-writers of that lovely song that she. Oh, yes, yes. Well, I wanted to use I remember you. And we couldn't use that because they didn't have the money. So I sat down with the songwriter, who is a wonderful man, and his sister had this idea and we all sort of worked it out together on something. I got to give him most of the credit, but it was it was I wanted that feeling. I wanted her to be singing about her dead sister. Yeah. And and somebody who meant so much to her in the past because she's raising that child now and the child is lost. And yes, yes. So I was that you're you're one you're one and done on songwriting or have you written other songs? Well, I have actually on the guitar, but they're sort of, you know, nothing I've ever published or anything. I've thrown a few ideas that people like Lyle love it and things that people that I've worked with, you know, on film that I know. But yeah, I got a couple. I got a couple in there. Well, you have a little bit of a musical history as well, having done the film version of Mame. And did you sing in that or or just the movie? Yes, I did. I did. And I didn't I didn't get to sing you're my best girl because Jerry Herman didn't think I could fulfill it at the time. I thought I could. But so I just sing one song in it that that that that that that that that that that so I'm I'm that. But I would have loved to have seen my best girl to Lucy. Yeah. How was that experience working on Mame with Lucy? Yeah, well, fortunately, one of my friends when I first came to L.A. and I first came out in those Manson years, as I call them, I guess, was Dino and Desi and Billy there. They had a little group of songs, a group that time, but I would hang out with Dino and Desi and their parents would be at the at the Daisy. There was a club called the Daisy there. And we went there and we'd hang out. And Dino would say, don't let this town get to your kid. You know, when he's 17 and and and Desi and I, we're all friends. And I got up to go to the bathroom one time. And this older man got up and pulled the chair back. He says, do you kids need anything? And I said, no, Mr. Sinatra, we're fine. And and Lucy would be in the back room playing the Parcheesi, not Parcheesi, but backgammon. She would play backgammon all the time. So when Mame came along, she said, my son says you're a good actor. So you got the part. And the first take that I had, and they'd been shooting for eight months or something out with the horses, and it was after Beauregard. And I play the elder Patrick. Right. And I come up from the bottom of the steps and Patrick had I mean, a bow had died. And I put my arms around her and I said, I love you. And I walk back down the break. I said, OK, good. That's a print. She said, I didn't believe it. So I go down the stairs, go back down the stairs. I get a grab her by the shoulder and I said, I love you. And I hear her go, I knew you had it in you. That's how things work with that. And she was she was a a little girl of seven years old and a truck driver all of the same time. And I thought, you know, this last film that Aaron Sorkin did, he caught her to a T. I mean, Nicole Kidman was brilliant. People don't really know what a brilliant performance that was. She had she had Lucy down pat with the elbows and everything in the meetings and stuff. And she she was she was Lucy because that was Lucy. Lucy could be this frail little girl or this wonderful clown. Or she could be, hey, Jesus, how are you doing up there? She knew the guys up in the rafters with the lights. How's the guy? How's Johnny? How's your son? She formed this studio. I mean, she formed the business. She formed Desilu Studios and she ran the show. So she always ran the show. But at the same time, she was this frail little girl, too. Sometimes she would come in crying one day to make up and I'd said she'd leave and I'd say to the makeup artist, I said, well, what's going on? Don't ever get married. You know, it was all kind of she was a very complex person. And and I and I really did love her. I really loved her very much because she was right. Everybody would. And she was a woman. And, you know, back in those days, women weren't always right. They never could be allowed to be right. Yeah, she could. Yeah, she could say, I didn't believe it. Do it again. Now, speaking of women, you you said you have a daughter who is acting now. Do you? How's that? I got to show you this. OK, can I show you this? Absolutely. All right. Well. OK, just how sweet. Oh, what a beautiful voice she has. Yeah, she does. It's it really freaked me out because I had no idea that she could do that because she stays in the garage and she does not, you know, want any help, doesn't want any help, doesn't want any advice. It's like everything else. She didn't. She never walked. She just got up one day and ran across the room. You know, she or swimming. She would never go near the water, put her toe in until she jumped in and swam across the thing. She's just like that. Wow. So so she's doing a production of Mary Poppins. Well, she was. Then she did Chicago. She played Velma. She's down at a place called Jack's Theatricals down town, and she's she's doing a Wizard of Oz. She's playing Dorothy. Oh, wow. She's she's going to be singing over the rainbow. Oh, so how sweet. So so obviously you don't give her advice because she doesn't want advice, doesn't want advice. Very rarely. It's very interesting because I told you that other story about Henry Fonda giving me acting advice. And I ran into Jane Fonda. I told her that story one time. She said, why didn't he ever tell me that? And I said, well, you were his daughter. And that's difficult. You know, I was just a schmuck actor on the court. It's very it's very delicate because my daughter being the opposite, she doesn't want that information. She wants to prove herself first and she'll get around a little later once she knows the ropes and what she's doing as an actress and stuff. And it's it's it's it's tough being a parent to somebody who wants to do what you want to do and because your heart breaks because you've been through it. You know what? What lies ahead. But if somebody has the passion like that, there's no stopping them. And she does have that. She she just has a passion for doing it. My son, on the other hand, nothing to do with it. I don't even want to see the stage. I'm the audience. Well, what would you are there things like that are still on your bucket list, things that you'd still like to do, type roles you'd like to play things, whether it's acting stuff or it's a role, you know, whether it's a role on stage or whether it's a role on film or TV or whatever. It always depends on the journey of the actor. It's interesting now. I remember Jack Lemmon when I worked with him on Shortcut saying there's there's no parts for older guys now. There's no part for older guys who are stars, all kinds of parts for older guys who are supporting actors. I mean, you're the doctor. You're the lawyer. You're Gramps over in the corner saying, what the hell are you talking about? You know, there's all those parts. But for something good to come along. I think this this one 20, 25 miles to normal might be that for me, because I'm playing an actor and playing an actor who was an action star who now is debased to selling compresso knee pads. You know, I've had a lot of I've kicked a lot of butt in my day. But after a while, those little aches and pains start that up on you. That's when I hurt, you know. So I'm doing that now. And there's a poignancy in who he has become, especially in his relationship with his family, because he was this big star and they're divorced. And, you know, he's starting to see the sunset. And so I that's a great journey for a character. When something like that comes along, it's like I just want to want to be able to do something and you don't get the opportunity to touch people all the time in some basic human way. Now, it happened in longtime companion for about a two minute scene that I had letting my lover go. And when something like that comes along, it's pure gold because Arthur Miller, who I got to work with and I told him, you're the reason I'm an actor. He wrote something that I still remember in college. And I say this all the time. So it's, you know, I'm getting a little sick of saying this in interviews, but he wrote this and it went, there is a certain immortality involved in acting that comes not through the nominations or the awards, but through the knowledge that an actor carries with him to his dying day. And on a certain afternoon in a dusty and empty theater, he cast a shadow that was not himself, but a distillation of everything he had ever thought or imagined. All the unsingable heart song that the ordinary man may feel but never utter, he gives voice to. And in so doing, he somehow joins the ages. And I thought, that's what I want to do. And we all want the opportunity to do that. It comes along so rarely for an actor to be able to touch something that reaches everybody on a primal level. Yeah. Wow. Which kind of, I was going to ask you what you, if you were to say what you would want your legacy to be. Who did a good job, you know, who took care of his family, who raised good kids. That's good. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, sometimes the simplicity of something, you know, that can be enough. Yeah. The last words my mother said to me were, do good work. So that's what I'd like to be my legacy. You did good work. Well, Bruce, you have done good work. Well, thank you, my darling. Yes. And I really appreciate you coming and spending this time with me and in extension, sharing your life and your career with all of the, we have incredibly loyal fans, long time fans of the show. Well, you certainly have grown up into a beautiful woman, too. I'd love to see that. Thank you. Well, I hope that, you know, we still have many years ahead of us. So I hope we get to team up on something. Well, that would be good. You put it down, I'll pick it up. Okay. Well, thank you so much for spending this time with me and just having a chance to catch up. It's so, it's very special to me. So that, you know, that whenever I have reached out to you over the years, you have always responded, no matter what big film you're currently in. And, you know, you're just a genuine person, you know, nice person. And, you know, those are always a pleasure to have in one's life. So. Well, thank you. Thank you, dear. And any of your TV brethren and sisters and mothers that you see around, do my best. I will definitely do that. Okay. Take care. Bye-bye. Thank you for joining me for this final part of my conversation with Bruce Davison. What fun to hear about his career and his life and what's ahead for him and all of that. I will rejoin you with more behind the scenes of the Waltons about episodes, more of your questions in a segment of Ask Judy. If you're enjoying these, please do hit like and subscribe. I will see you next time. Thanks for watching.