Sean Evans Eats His Last Meal

Hi, I'm Sean Evans, and this is my last meal. Every person has exactly two things in common. We all got to eat, and we're all going to die. Today, we're joined by the host of Hot Ones and the best damn architecture tour guide the city of Chicago has ever seen. Sean Evans, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. Of course, of course. Now, tell me why the official Chicago Architecture Foundation's tours are the best in the city and all other tours are false profits. Well, good question. So I think what ends up happening is when you're a tour guide, you can take on a kitschy, corny thing where everything's got a little joke, and you're doing the tour guide thing. But I thought with the Architecture Foundation particular, it was more like a docent. There were a lot of retired architects, professors, people who were doing this in their retirement, and then treated it like a college lecture. So I think that if you actually wanted to take in information, have historical context for all of these things, that was always the tour to take. So you were merely the shepherd feeding people to the actual celebrities, which were the Chicago architects and professors themselves. There's only so many of those. Sure. You know, in a summer, you've got a lot of boat rides. You've got a lot of tourists. So you need some true farm animal donkeys out there. And then college kids in the summer were a great place to find those kinds of donkeys. And I was just one of those donkeys. So showing up at 8 AM, like leaving at 8 PM, doing five, six tours all summer long, getting a nice tan, meeting a lot of people, and talking about buildings. I mean, truly like a great training ground for what you ended up doing. 100%. I mean, I think that I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now if it wasn't for that. And I think I credit that experience more than even the broadcast journalism degree that I have. You know, it was just always reading people, seeing where the walls are, seeing where the peaks are, always tuning in and out of that. And I always took it very seriously, because I just wanted to, I think, scratch that itch for an audience. And then that's where I find myself right now, is you're just always trying to satiate an audience. Have you ever thought about your last meal before? No, never in my life, actually. So this is kind of a unique experience. And I did put some serious thought into it. And I'm excited for the meal we're about to have. Did it launch you into any sort of existential spiral? You know what? I think when it comes to death and thinking about it, it's just a foregone conclusion. You know, we're all going to die. And when that happens or how that happens is, you know, not really up to me. And I don't think I fear it. You know, there have been some times where I've been in a plane and like severe turbulence where it's dropping and the overhead compartment doors are flying open. And I can tell people around me are getting like tense and scared. And I was in a very calm place, which is maybe kind of frightening looking back. Or I remember another time when I got my wisdom teeth pulled, they put me under this gas and they were like, you control it. So if you breathe in heavier, you know, if you feel discomfort, breathe in heavier and that'll give you, you know, more of that numbing medicine. And then if you're feeling a little loopy, like don't breathe in as hard. And I was like, well, I've been around the block a couple of times. Like, I'm just going to really, I was just basically huffing this gas. And I remember having that kind of like seeing the light spiritual experience, like my life flashing before my eyes vividly, like in a school musical. Like when I'm in third grade, like things I don't remember, I'm having vivid memories of it. And I remember thinking like, oh my God, like this is how I'm going to die, getting my wisdom teeth pulled. And I remember dating a girl who worked at that dentist office, she set up the appointment and I didn't have any fear about dying whatsoever. My only thought was like, poor Annie, she's going to live with the guilt of this for the rest of her life. I'm hoping that she'll be able to like, at least get that off her shoulders at some point. So that's kind of how I look at this whole thing, as terrifying as that might sound. No, I'm not terrified. I think that's actually really beautiful. But then two, why are all these people doing ayahuasca ceremonies? Just go rip gas at the dentist office. It was a spiritual experience for sure. Sean, for the first course of your final meal, we have the Wagyu tacos from Nobu up in Malibu. And we also have the, maybe the greatest food ever invented, the Crunchwrap Supreme from Taco Bell. If I can just pour out and decant the panoply of sauces, please tell me about it. So to me, this kind of really embodies who I am. Like I'm kind of a high, low guy. The middle does nothing for me. So I either want to eat, you know, $75 bite-sized Wagyu tacos from Nobu Malibu, which by the way is the best Nobu, or I want a Crunchwrap Supreme. Nothing between does anything for me. And then I would like to say, for what it's worth, the hot sauce from Taco Bell is actually phenomenal hot sauce. The mild, the hot, way underrated and would actually like, if it were just be in a bottle or something, it would be up there as one of my favorite hot sauces. Please man, dig in. So we have actually brought Nobu Malibu to you because our PA Colby was actually a line cook there. And when he saw that you had the Wagyu tacos on the menu, he goes, oh yeah, that's 155 grams of soy. That's 330 grams. And he had the entire recipe memorized. So this is cooked fresh with the actual memory. Oh my God. See, that's what I'm saying. Like it makes you like just the one bite ripping through that buttery steak. You just want to take a nap. Let's stop doing interviews about whatever the hell we're going to say. That is one of the best things I've ever tasted. I think a lot of your career has been very high, low in a sense too. You said that you felt like Hot Ones was a bit of an internet sideshow when you started trying to get these esteemed guests to come eat spicy chicken wings with you. But 24 seasons and over 300 episodes later, you have been rightfully called one of the best interviewers of our generation. Now that you are on the other side, do you find yourself hyper-analyzing what an interviewer is doing? Do you have any specific pet peeves? You know, I do when I watch shows, you know, like jump cuts will bother me. You know, like when I'm watching other people's stuff, there are certain ways in which like, I can't help but to think what it would be or what it would look like if I had my hands on it. And that can be kind of distracting. It can make watching other people's stuff feel like work to me, you know, then too, there's a lot to be inspired by. I think when we started doing it, there weren't that many good interview shows, especially on the internet. And now I think you have a ton of them, you know, this one chicken shop date. I love what Caleb Presley does, the Sunday conversations, you know, like now there are all these great interview shows and it's nice to be part of that ecosystem. But like you said, when we first started, we didn't have such great aspirations for the show or anything. It was just, we had this cult audience that was showing up week after week, even if it wasn't like a big view hit. And you just felt like you needed to feed that beast all of the time. And it really inspired us to raise our standards on what the interview should be. So it started off as like kind of wacky, just trying to like capture these memes, have this sort of quarterly Superbowl event. But we knew that that would have an hourglass on it, you know, time would run out on that kind of a thing. And that's what really motivated us, the audience to think about the show as primarily an interview show and then the wings be the side act to that rather than the main event. Dig into your Crunchwrap. I'm stopping you from eating. They're getting cold. Cold Taco Bell, nobody wants. Oh, this is nice and warm too. You guys are better at this than us. We do have a whole team cooking, like shout out to the culinary team. A good Taco Bell made this too, you can tell. I know. Yeah, you can. There are, yeah, there are. Well, you're a Taco Bell head. I know that. Is the Crunchwrap Supreme, like Mount Rushmore of Taco Bell items for you? It's the first like true innovation, like folding the Crunchwrap into a hexagon. Nobody had seen that. A real innovation. To me, it's like, it is. It like represents the first time that Taco Bell went fully post-Mexican. They didn't even try and name it a gordita, a chalupa, anything. There's like Crunchwrap Supreme. Who knows? Game recognized game in the Crunchwrap department. Do you think the underdog mentality of Hot Ones ultimately led to its success? Because you have all of these like traditional media juggernauts, all the late night shows. They have the ability to rest on their laurels and that's a luxury that you never had. Do you think that made you scrap harder? No, and I think it still does. You know, like even to this day, I still think of us as an underdog show. Like I'm always putting a chip on my shoulder, always finding something because, you know, when you do something for this long, it is just day in and day out. You know, we've been doing the show now for almost 10 years and like every Thursday at 11 a.m., we have to hit that episode. And I'm not like crying for myself or anything, but that's a grind, you know, like that is a grind. So the thing that can keep you motivated is, you know, like just finding a message that pisses you off, you know, to like keep you going or just finding that thing. And I always feel like I look for those things to fuel me. Pettiness does fuel me. Anger does fuel me. All of those things, doubts do fuel me. And we've always just been a very scrappy small team that's, you know, we started up just popping the show up with the curtains and wherever we could find it, if it was a studio space, if it was a hotel room or whatever. And you know what, 10 years later, we're still doing that exact same thing. And I think that's at the heart of what makes the show special and what makes it feel like it's us against the world sometimes, even though when you look at the success that we've experienced, you know, it's hard to frame it that way, but I always keep it framed that way. That answer is actually a little surprising to me because you come off as such a cool customer, right? In every single interview you see, you seem super careful about what you're saying. Everything seems super plotted. Everything seems like it's very calculated. But like, it seems like there is a little bit of kind of secret rage baseline underneath the current that's driving you towards that. Do you think it's like healthy ultimately or it's just whatever gets the job done? I think it's whatever gets the job done. And you know, it's a little bit like a duck looks graceful on the pond, you know, but underneath the feet are going like this. He's literally doing that. Yeah, yeah. He's just running, he's blinstoning the table. So far, that's the thing that's worked for me. And I think in the people that do the show, we all share that in our DNA. And I think we all rally around that. It's funny that you, you know, started as an interviewer, as a journalist, and then now the spotlight is on you as like a bonafide celebrity, or at least as bonafide as you can be in this Wild West digital era. But one of the things that made you great, I think still makes you great, obviously, is that you're like the ultimate assist man. You like completely de-center yourself in interviews and you just, you know, John Stockton that ball up and let the Karl Malone celebrities dunk it. How comfortable are you when the spotlight is all on you? You know, my goal when I'm doing an interview is to never try to compete for attention, compete for gags, like do any of those, like I'm interviewing Conan O'Brien, you know, the greatest, most influential broadcaster, I think, of our generation. I'm not gonna try to match it. You know what I mean? Or like you talk to comedians who fill arenas or musicians who take these great stages or whatever, you know, like these are entertainers. I think the thing that you have to do is set them up for success in order for these things to be great. Plus at the end of the day, our show is this stripped down black curtain, generic looking bald guy, his hot sauces and his wings. In order for it to be a different viewer experience every time, I think that each episode needs to serve as an extension of the guest's personality. So I think the more that you can allow the guest to fill that space, I think the better overall watch experience. Of course, there are adjustments that you have to make in game all the time and ways in which that you have to assert yourself more in certain situations. And like you said, with John Stockton, I always think of myself as a point guard. More Jason Williamside, like a white chocolate. Yeah, yeah, I'll take that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know, I actually think I'm Stockton. I'm like, I'm in the fundamentals, you know what I mean? I really do think I'm in the fundamentals and there's nothing that flashy about my game or anything, but you're just, you're running point guard, you know? Like, and my goal is really more assists than it is slam dunks. This is the only gotcha question that I have for people the whole time, but we need to talk about Da Bomb. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Da Bomb has been the eighth sauce out of 10 since season two. It allegedly has a Scoville rating of 120,000, give or take, compared to two million on the last dab. Yep. Everybody knows it's the spiciest sauce on the show and always has been. By far. Will you go on record and say that the Scoville scale is complete malarkey, Sean? Well, I do think that's true. You know, like there's, you know, we order it by the Scoville scale, but that really doesn't factor in the way some of these sauces hit you, you know what I mean? Like we've had fives on the show that I think hit harder than the nines and sixes that hit harder than the nines and things like that as it goes on and on. All these peppers, all these sauces, they're all gonna hit you differently. And with that sauce in particular, it uses, like even two of the listed ingredient in it is a habanero, you know what I mean? That's not a scorpion pepper. That's not a Carolina reaper. That's not a pepper X, you know what I mean? That's not any of these peppers. The extract is literally pepper spray, right? Exactly. So it's just like, just this pure concentration, you know, of this flavor. And it makes it not only so potent and uncomfortable, but also kind of disgusting to eat. And, you know, we've made the move to natural sauces throughout the lineup. And there has been, you know, ways in which I've been challenged to get that sauce off the table over the years. And I always, I always fall on that grenade, Ford to Bob, to tie those things in together. Because at the end of the day, like I do think people watch for that moment, you know? And if we take that off the table, then it's, you know, like Hot Ones has lost its edge. You know what I mean? Like Hot Ones now just catering to A-list celebrities and they lost that thing that makes it that thing. Like, I do think at the end of the day, you need to have an element in a show like Hot Ones that is just pure like red meat to the people, you know? And I'll never get too high in my opinion of the show to ever lose sight of that focus. So Da Bomb is here to stay. That's against my self-interest because I have to eat it every single time we shoot an episode and it never, ever, ever gets easier. But it's also too, just a nice through line as we stack up all these seasons. You know, finishing up the 24th one now, there is one through line by which you can measure the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of guests that we've had all over the years. And that is, you know, how are they going to handle Da Bomb? And typically that's not in a great way. Sean, for course number two, we got the Chicago deep dish pizza. Now we made this in-house with the sausage and the cheese on the bottom, some green peppers, fresh tomatoes, hand crushed, little cheese skirt on the side, inspired a little bit by Pequod's. And then we got the Culver's onion rings. Now these were flown out from Chicago. Shout out to Dennis Lee. Thank you, Dennis. Who sent them out to us with the honey mustard. We got a Portillo's beef and cheese croissant. And then we got the Arizona peach iced tea. Spoiled. Man, tell me about this love letter to Chicago. So to me, deep dish is something I crave. Living in New York now, spending so much time in LA, nobody really does it like Chicago. And I know it's kind of a divisive thing. Deep dish can be kind of controversial. Look how perfect that is. Like that's an, that's a, that is textbook on that cheese bowl. What a treat, what a treat. I'm so sorry I interrupted you. But nobody really does it like Chicago and I always crave it. And so whenever I get home, I always like to go to Lou Malnati's. I think I like the way that a deep dish pizza joint smells. There's something that's nostalgic about it. And I'm from a town in the Northwest suburbs, Crystal Lake, Illinois. They have an amazing deep dish spot called Giorgio's that is up there with some of the best deep dish I've ever had in my life. But it's so hard for me to find a decent one outside of Chicago. So I feel like it's only on those moments that I go back to the city that I can experience this thing. With the onion rings, Culver's, the most underrated fast food restaurant. Custard on point, small batches, made in house. The burger, butter burger, way better than it needs to be. And this is maybe a through line now that I'm thinking about it in the show is the sort of engineering design of all of these foods. Like I like clean bites. And so like an onion ring needs to have a clean bite. So you need to have that crispy shell and then it needs to bite clean with the onion. Nothing worse than when the onion comes out and it's its own string. And then on to Portillo's again with the beef and cheddar croissant. It's another perfect vessel. Now everything about this should be kind of sloppy but it's not. Jeez, Ross. Good clean bites in here. And again, a beautiful and extremely heavy love letter to Chicago. Sean, I'm so excited, man. Thank you for giving me this gift. What? You can get this on a croissant? I didn't know that existed. That's what I'm saying. And like, you know, the croissant is used as this collaborative partner in all these different ways, right? You get like the cronut, like, you know like croissant is always entering the world and they make these like bizarre collaborations. So when it comes to the bastardization of the croissant to me, the beef and cheddar croissant from Portillo's is the best version of that. I've never had Culver's whatsoever. Do you think Culver's is better than In-N-Out and Shake Shack? Cause you spent time in all three cities. Good question. It's better than In-N-Out. Shake Shack is when I'd have to start to look at my notes and really dive into the material. You guys got another licensing deal with Shake Shack coming up? Actually, yeah. Culver's is better than In-N-Out. I'm just joking. But no, to me, it's like, it's just both are spots where I think there's a bar for fast food. And when places jump that bar and they just become kind of better than they need to be that to me is the Cupid's arrow into my food heart. So Culver's checks that box me, but also Shake Shack. You know, like that smash burger has like no business being that good and that consistent. It's like the winds above replacement for fast food. Unreal. And then like, look at this. See, that's like a clean break. So that's what you want. I'm seeing no onion. It's all one cohesive part of the plan. The onion sort of melts into, it's like the Funyun of onion rings, man. John, I want to take you back to Crystal Lake Central High School, 2003. Your buddy, Pat Minogue is holding me tight. He's going to love this. And he says, bro, he caught it. It was sick. What were the emotions you felt at the time? Well, I was emotional rollercoaster and shout out to Crystal Lake Central. They actually won the state tournament in baseball this year around. So shout out to the team. Shout out to Coach Aldridge, who was my coach. Now his son, Cal, coaching the team and all the boys out there. That was awesome to watch. But yeah, I played baseball growing up and we had a really good team my junior year. I remember we were in this state game. I was on first base. We had bases loaded and we were down three. And I still remember Quinn Ewert was batting. And I'm on first base and I'm the tying run and we have two outs in the seventh inning, you know? And so. 7-4 game. Yeah, 7-4 game, that's right. Matt Weber on the mound. .31 ERA the whole season. Yeah, drafted by the Chicago Cubs. He was, yeah. So he, the ball jumps off of Quinn's bat. Ball jumps off of Quinn's bat and I just start cooking. You know, like around these bases. I know I'm the tying run. That to me looked like either a home run, double in the gap, like something. So I have to score from first. And as I'm approaching third base, Coach Aldridge just sort of holds his arms up like this. And because it was a neutral game, like on a neutral field, the crowd erupts. And what I immediately as an optimist, as a glass half full kind of person, assume that Quinn just hit a walk-off grand slam in state. So I immediately just jump up in the air, pump my fist and look at the dugout, like in a flex position, like, ah, like that. But it took me a while to snap into focus what had happened. And my buddy, Pat, ran up to me, who I'm still friends with to this day, ran up to me and said, apparently what had happened is the left fielder got turned around. He's chasing the ball down over this shoulder, turns around, he's over this shoulder, turns around over the next one and makes this catch right at the wall. So people were celebrating that. The other team was celebrating that. And the one person on the team that had just lost that was celebrating that was me. Just like helmet off, like, let's go. And my buddy, Pat, he grabbed me, put me in a bear hug, looked at me and just said, bro, he caught it. It was sick. Just like that. And it was sick. He's like, dude, he caught it. It was sick. Like that. Outfielder's name was Sean Thom and he's currently a sleep dentist in St. Louis. Shout out to all the sleep dentists out there. You got dental anxiety? How did you figure, this is- Public libraries are great resources, man. They'll pull a lot of newspaper archives for you. That's incredible. Back then in high school- That's incredible. One, thank you. And also I wanna ask, so many celebrities have told you you have incredible questions. Which celebrity- I don't think I've ever done what you just did. We had to, come on, you were coming on the show, we had to do it. But who has that compliment meant the most from? Every time, you know, it's like a good vibe because I think at the end of the day what we're doing here is kind of a trust exercise. Like everything we're doing here is bizarre. I think we've met before, but like this is our first, you know, we're, let's say we haven't, which is usually the case when you're interviewing someone. It's like you're meeting for the first time, you have to create this energy, this rhythm, this rapport with a guest. But at the end of the day, it's ultimately a trust exercise, especially too because you're doing it in this bizarre context of one, two, three, four cameras on us, it's gonna be on a show, all of those things. So it's like, when you see the shoulders drop, when you see someone relax into the format, especially one like ours, where we're asking you to eat these scorching hot chicken wings one after another, that's always a good thing because you're like, oh, I have them now. You know, when you get that compliment from other talk show hosts, I think it's probably when it hits the hardest, you know, to hear that from Conan O'Brien, who is like an icon of mine, you know, like you remember all of those moments. So when you hear it from someone who does what you do, then I think that's when it hits the hardest, at least for me, you know what I mean? Because also too, they don't have to hand that out. They don't have to hand out that compliment. And it is ultimately a vulnerable position. It is kind of this like tennis match back and forth. Like you've talked about getting celebrities out of, you eat your pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've talked about getting celebrities out of their like PR-driven flight path. Yes, yes. That's what a lot of this is, right? You're promoting a film, you know, you're promoting whatever, but your job is to get something good and actually create a human moment. Your mom passed away a couple months before that baseball season. Yeah. When you were a junior in high school after a battle with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Yeah. That's a really tough age to lose a parent because you don't know who you are yet as a person. How did that experience at that time ultimately affect the adult that you grew up to be? When someone's battling, when a family member or your mom is battling cancer, it's something that you deal with long before they pass away. You know, she'd been sick basically my whole life. And you go through this rollercoaster of, you know, chemotherapy and then recession. And like when you're a kid thinking like it's over and everything's better now. And then only for it to return, like to Groundhog Day, like over and over and over and over again. It's just this nightmare that never stops, you know? And then you feel so much for the person who's going through this because they're suffering through all of that. And then, you know, like when you're a teenager, then you feel the guilt about all the times that I was like kind of a dick to my mom, you know, like all of those things. And even like the guilt to this day sometimes, like I remember the last conversation we ever had was her being like, you know, I was a junior in high school, as you mentioned, and she's like, what college do you think you'll go to? You know, like I thought it was just like my mom like badgering me about what school I'm going to. And I'm like, mom, I don't know, I don't know yet. You know, and she's like, well, like, where are you leaning? Like if you had to put like one in the pole position, I'm like, I don't know yet, like that, you know? And I always think about that. She knew she was going and she just like wanted the answer to that question before she went, you know? And then like, she went to the University of Illinois and I went to the University of Illinois. And I like, I always think about like, she would be so happy to have learned that information. I never got a chance to give it to her, you know, cause I really didn't know, but I think about that all the time. But I think like, like anything, it makes you grow up really fast. You know, I had a younger brother, you know, and I had my dad who was, you know, losing the love of his life at the time. So I feel like that almost forced me in that moment to try to be like the strongest out of all of us at that time. And I'm not sure I would be, I'm not like claiming that position in anything, but just always try to remember her and think about her and the ways that she shaped me, you know? Like I think where you get that sort of like Midwest niceness, you know? With the secret rage boiling under you. Yeah, yeah, I'm the underdog, nobody believes. That's always, that's, that's really her. And I always try to like ask my dad, I was like, well, you know, like what do you think I gleaned for her? Like, what do you think? And he's like, you know, your freakish work ethic like came from her, you know, like all of those things. So that's how I try to think about her right now is the things that I've, the things that she gave me and then she'd be like so blown away by like everything that's happened, you know, since that time. I'm curious about your dad after your mom's passing because you said that you would watch Letterman all the time with your dad when you were a kid. You used to make him pause the VHS recording to explain jokes to you. And you said that Hot Ones is ultimately just you trying to make your dad laugh like Letterman did. How was your dad through that grieving process? And did you think of yourself as that emotional anchor? He was, I think, the best dad when he needed to be the best dad. And that was like the time when he needed to be the best dad. And he was the best dad. I tell him that every father's day. So he was a judge for the Illinois Human Rights Commission. He also passed the first ever decision holding cancer as a disability that you can't discriminate against in Illinois. Do you think any of that was really- I learned that. I just learned that from you telling me that. Really? Yeah, he won the Diversity and Leadership Award for the Illinois State Bar Association. You should call him up and congratulate him on that. It was in 2005. It was two years after your mom passed. I'll, you know what? Josh, I'll call him and send him the same question back and see how he responds to that because I'm learning that about him for the first time. And you know, it's funny because like, you know, like being raised by a judge is kind of an interesting, people naturally are like interested, you know, like, was he strict? Was it impossible to get away with anything? And when I look back on it, like, no, like I think he was like, so, you know, like in his courtroom and like doing his thing that he was like very content to just like come home and get his ass kicked by his kids. You know what I mean? Like he never brought that home. Well, yeah, text your dad, man. We'll see what's up. I'll text him. I'll let him know. Sean, for course number three, we have simply stuffed peppers. Yes. Per your specificity, stuffed peppers. And then we have spaghetti al limone made with lemon zest, fresh lemon juice, a little bit of lemon rind shaved on top, black pepper parm, super simple. Can I dish you up? Spaghetti al limone to me, it's just like, it's what makes Italian food so great. And it's simplicity. You know what I mean? Just have a couple ingredients here. This looks nice and creamy and it's got some freshness to it, but one of my favorite pasta dishes. And then, you know, as is sort of a theme throughout this is I'm a nostalgic person, you know, what can I say? But to me, the stuffed pepper is just kind of like such a Midwest staple, especially for latchkey kids like myself. You know, like we talked about my upbringing, it's very often the case where it's like, you know, there's $40 by the phone, there's stuffed peppers, oven ready stuffed peppers in the fridge. You know what I mean? Like take care of yourselves for the weekend kind of situation. And I guarantee if you went back to my house right now, there would be some oven ready stuffed peppers that my step-mom had made that are like on the center rack in the refrigerator right now. Also too, I will say, you know, like sometimes these regional dishes pop up, they become trends, you know, you see them in places. The stuffed pepper has never broken containment, not once. Like you never see it anywhere at all. You know what I mean? But I do think there is potential there. Maybe there's a reason this thing hasn't broken containment. But yeah, it's just such a- You wouldn't want to eat that. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, so a special place in my heart for the stuffed pepper, for sure. You know, lemon just kisses you right in the forehead, man. We eating heavy today. So I was also a latchkey kid, but I had like a Crock-Pot dad. Yeah, yeah. He'd just throw like a whole pork loin and like two jars of sauerkraut in the Crock-Pot and be like, figure it out, you know? John, we have a recurring segment on this show. Called explain that screenshot from an unlisted 2007 YouTube video. Can you explain this screenshot from an unlisted 2007 YouTube video? This might be, I'm going to place the year at like 2007 or 2008. This would be at the University of Illinois, probably out of the broadcasting program. And they put that up on YouTube. I'm going to have to- Completely unlisted. Do not ask how- Make a call to the chancellor. Do not ask how we got it. There's 229 views, zero comments. Do you remember what you were talking about? Yeah, yet. Do you remember what you were talking about? I have absolutely no idea, but I remember that a thing that they used to do is on every Friday, if you were part of the broadcast journalism program, what you would do is they would do a live broadcast that was on public access television. UI7 News, your U of I news source. Good evening, I'm Sean Evans. And they were always such a disaster. Like I hope they're not actually like up, you know what I mean? Like every single one of these shows would just be a total disaster. Like you'd have to do a live shot, like go to commercial. You'd come back from commercial early. Like the two anchors are talking to each other and like startled looking at the camera trying to catch where the prompter is. Weather was always a mess for everyone. You rocked the weather, man. I did love weather. They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So if you like cool winds and rain, well, the next couple of days should be beautiful for you. But you know, because you're on green screen and the monitors are all opposite. So those things are always a disaster. So I imagine that this is from that somehow. It sure was, Sean. In this video, you said, the internet juggernaut YouTube is becoming an important method of exposure. It's the World Wide Web, the latest tool in the quest for fame, exposure and success. You predicted your own career in 2007. But could you ever have imagined that from this fledgling little website called YouTube.com and you at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign would have an oracle eye in which I'd look into my own future through the crystal ball of this whole thing? 125 million views on Gordon Ramsay eating hot ones. No, the dreams that have crystallized were not in this kid's head. If I were buying stock on this kid, you know, like this is not where my money would go. No, no. In this kid's head. But who's laughing now? I'm on last meals. You have obviously used YouTube as a massive platform, but Hot Ones ultimately was kind of this hail Mary to save the First We Feast brand, which was a James Beard award-winning food blog. Where you started, by the way, a little deep dive on you. I remember you were freelancing on the turntables. You know, you're freelancing with First We Feast, right? And the video thing starts to pop up. I would imagine you at the time, given where you are now, were probably hungry for some on-camera action. Absolutely not. Not, nothing. Because I was dumb. And you were smart. And there was something happening called the pivot to video. Yes, yes, the great pivot to video. And you and I had both worked in print journalism. I know you studied broadcast journalism, but you and I both worked with so many talented storytellers who would have lost their jobs to this wild west of digital video. Does any part of you have survivor's guilt? Or were you like, I adapted at the right time. I grew gills during the ice age or whatever. No guilt whatsoever. I ate a lot of damn chicken wings to get here. You know, a lot of super spicy chicken wings to get here and I'm not going to apologize for it. So it's always that thing where the Rubik's Cube has to like just naturally solve itself in order for you to even just have a chance at success. And then you're able to gain these different skills and sharpen things and focus things and kind of become, you know, what the show is now, what we are now. But it took all of that time, all that experimentation. It seems like damn near every YouTuber I've talked to, including myself, is driven somewhat to madness in one way or another by the algorithm, by the comments, by constantly having to not only feed the beast, but then adjust what the beast wants to eat at this time. And oh God, the beast doesn't like it now. And oh God, does the beast hate me? You've said that there was a point where you didn't want to pick up your phone because you'd just ridden that wave into a dark place. Do you think having a healthy amount of fatalistic detachment has actually kept you sane and successful during this process? Yes, like when an episode comes out, that night I like to look through them and like just see what the feedback is. And I think that that's important. But you know, when people say like the nicest things, you can't take that seriously. When people say the meanest things, you can't take that seriously. Like it's all in this filter. And I think the thing though that's kept me sane is just really enjoying the process of research, right? I'm gonna walk a mile in someone else's shoes. I'm gonna try to figure out what I find interesting about this person. Write this run of show based on just the natural, intellectual curiosity that I have about this guest. Try to execute against, you know, my instincts, the sort of armchair psychology that you do. They sit down in the thing, try to execute. Hopefully this goes as good as I hope it'll go. And oftentimes it goes better than I thought it would go, you know, and just stay on that and then edit it, publish it, and then just repeat the process over and over and over again. And I'm not jaded by that process. Like I just like that day in and day out. And as long as I stay true to that sort of one step after the other, like North Star of things, then whatever, it all lines into place. And that's the only thing that's fueled me this far. And so in some ways you just have to feel like, yes, the feedback is important, but on some level I think, you know, you're always making the best of, you know, you actually have to make decisions. It's not like I can just pull guests out of a hat and like make these exactly, you know, you have to actually live the thing. But also too, I think you have to kind of know what people want more than they know what they want. Same with like a chef. You have to like know what's gonna make this dish hit more than this person can even explain what they're looking for. You know, I think that's the thing. So that's what I try to stay true to. And I think that's what's kept me sane. Sean, you said you wanted s'mores for dessert, but we don't like to do anything normal around here. So we got your classic honey made jet puff Hershey's combination. But if you want, you can go the bougie route. We got vanilla marshmallows from Bottega Louie. We got some fair trade honey grams. And then we also, just in case, I know you're a full well-rounded human and don't only eat spice, but we did make ghost pepper graham crackers, mango habanero marshmallows, and then we got some spicy chocolates. Dig in. Amazing. All right. Well, I love the amount of customization that we can do here. And the reason too, why I love s'mores is, you know, I'm not really a home cook, not at all. And this to me is the perfect amount of involvement, you know, when putting something together. So that's why I love s'mores. But also too, like as much as I've made a career off of spice, I actually really am a sweet tooth at heart. So this whole time, like we've been eating good, we've been eating real good, but I'm always looking forward to dessert. I can't remember which one the ghost pepper ones are. It's just a Russian roulette situation over here. Actually, the other day, I went to this restaurant in Brooklyn called Olmsted and you order s'mores and they seriously have like a s'more zone in the backyard. And they put you on a couch and they set the fire up for you. It's kind of amazing. So you're never too old. You never age out of s'mores in my opinion. Truly. The spectacle of it, the nostalgia. You said you're a nostalgic guy. Do you want to get this honeycomb crisp chocolate? Yeah. I'm kind of jazzed on that, man. I do. Little well-architectured bite. Hold on, I gotta slide it off. Oh, I circumcised the marshmallow again. Hold on, hold on. He's Jewish. Cheers. What an incredible bite of food. You know, my biggest pet peeve when I go to a restaurant is when they try to fancy up a dessert. You know, when they're trying to change something, sometimes you just, you don't need to mess with anything. Sean, you've said that interviewing is ultimately about empathy. It's about walking a mile in somebody's shoes and that is what I intend to do right now. Sean, I am going to eat a wing covered in the last dab and I would like to invite you to ask me any burning question that you've had. Does that sound fair? That sounds good to me. You can keep eating your s'mores too. Okay, I will. I'll finish that too. Hold on, we gotta solve the hot ones cold wing problem real quick. Oh. You guys should have this on the table. No, I'm taking notes. How much is an appropriate amount to put on? Tell me. That's good, that's good. That's good? Okay, okay, okay. Well. Oh my gosh. Yeah. All right. With the wings of death behind us, just one more question before we roll curtains. You started working in this industry, right? And you started getting into this thing and where are you from originally? Orange County, about 50 miles south. Okay, cool. So you're a California kid. You know, like when you first started getting into this game, what was to you like a mark of success? Or like, where did you think your potential could take you? Like, what would you have been like, oh, I've made it. Like, did you have like a big dream of having a show? Or like, what was your sort of like, I've made it ceiling? You can physically feel your adrenaline and cortisol levels rise second by second. There's literally a comic thermometer in my head and then the tongue gets numb. I never had big dreams. I always had actually criminally low expectations for my life because I just grew up without anybody telling me that I should have expectations. Grew up poor, parents didn't really do much. And so I actually remember when I signed with a literary agent in college from my food blog, which is insane that that is a thing that had happened. He asked me like, who are the writers that you want to emulate? What career do you want to try and have? And I named, y'all are gonna laugh, a staff writer for Thrillist.com. I'm sorry, and like nothing, I love Thrillist, right? I love this. I remember the name of the staff writer, but I mean, he was probably making $200 an article, but I was like this, I am a 21 year old with representation, which is so tough to get. And I want to be a staff writer, probably making $50,000 a year. So I think similar to you, that sucks, man. People do this all the time. You're freaking drooling over here. I feel like my career has run so many laps around my expectations for what it ever could have. I never could have imagined this. I never could have imagined New York Times number one bestselling cookbook. The crazy thing though, is I've realized that like Matthew Perry says this in his autobiography, I accomplished all the dreams I had when I was a kid. I just didn't realize they were the wrong dreams, right? And I think you have this thing too, where it's like, I don't want to make a ton of money for the sake of making a ton of money. I don't want to be successful for the sake of being successful. And so many people sort of reverse engineer it where they go, I think I can be happy because I'll have money, because I'll have fame. Those things don't lead to happiness. Happiness leads to happiness. True contentment. Spice fuel. The capsaicin, man. God, why do people pay for drugs? This is like a three cent sip of hot sauce and I have ultimate clarity. This is unreal. Jesus. Like, how do you manage that? Are you actually happy and content? Yeah, I think so. I think if I die, I want to be reincarnated as myself. To be honest with you. I also want to be reincarnated as you, so you don't have to fight it. Yeah, like, no, it's been such a remarkable honor. Marshmallows don't help in case you thought about it. Right, and you didn't eat the habanero one, did you? No, definitely. But now it's going to taste like nothing. Interesting. Oh. It's kind of nice. Kind of nice. Lily, you smoked this, dude. This rules. I kind of want to make a whole s'more now. Fire it back up. Oh, shit, it is really hot, though. It just kind of, the second wave got me. Yeah, yeah. See, that's the thing is sometimes, yeah, actually it is coming through now. Yeah, yeah. I've got reincarnation. What do you actually think happens after you die? Where does this all go? I think I'm agnostic on that whole thing. Like, I have no idea. You know, there's been some times where I've maybe drank a little too much tea. You know? We got him. On a Sunday. And felt like I had some sort of clarity on that, you know? Like, seeing myself as a tadpole in a mirror, you know? And being like, oh, like, life all makes sense to me. And, you know, this can't all be for nothing. You know what I mean? That's, to me, like, a way crazier idea than anything. But I still don't know what happens. All I know is that you're only on this planet once and we're all in a distraction contest. And we're winning that right now, man. Are you not distracted enough? Sean, you ready to get in the lightning round? Let's do it. Let's do it, man. Who's the one person, dead or alive, you'd want to share your actual last meal with? My mom. You know? Talk to her, tell her I went to Illinois. Like, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's cool. She's gonna go, oh, go align. I loved the Dee Brown era. You're going out on the town. Who do you want wingmanning you? Mystery, Matador, or J-Dog? Just Mystery, Matador. Is that a pickup artist? I'm going back to VH1 days right now. Matador is like the yoked Indian dude. J-Dog was small, wore a lot of hats. Matador. Yeah, you're gonna want Matador out there. What song do you want to be played at your funeral? Closing Time by Semi Sonic. Let's do it again. The light's flashing. Get the hell out. Close your tab. What's your biggest fear? Heights, not a height. You know, I don't like when I'm on a balcony and I'm way above the ground and I look up and I see more balconies above me. It's very disorienting. I mean, it's my least favorite feeling. Who's someone no longer with us that you wish you could have interviewed? Chris Farley. Oh, God. We're gonna go to Hot Ones episode. What's the hardest goodbye you've ever had to say? You know, when I had left Chicago to come to New York, that was horrifying, you know? Because I'd grown up my whole life there and all my friends and family were there and it was kind of just kind of an impulse. Like, I'm just gonna chase this thing and go off to New York. And that felt immediately like I'd made a huge mistake, but turns out I didn't. But that was a tough one. Finally, do you have any regrets in life? Nah, man. Like, even the mistakes you make, you learn stuff from and it all informs and shapes who you become and it's imperfect and everybody wants, like, a perfect Michelangelo sculpture of their lives, but that's not how it works, you know? We're all just chiseling into the stone and however the rocks fall apart is however the rocks fall apart. So, no regrets. You're making them real tiny because that was cool back then. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's exactly true. Sean, I cannot thank you enough for making this episode. This was really special. I was saying this off camera, but you all should know, like, you have been one of my idols. This show obviously doesn't exist without Hot Ones and so this is, like, an incredibly special moment for me. Thank you for giving it to me. Well, I appreciate it. This was a long time in the making. I've wanted to come on this show for so long. I'm so impressed by what you've built, especially as we've talked about today, this fractured landscape. It's so hard for any flower to grow in the concrete there, so congratulations. And I can't say, like, the experience of doing this was amazing and this whole time I kind of forgot I was on a show, you know? It was a tripping experience in its own right and I appreciate you for taking the time. Of course, man. Sean, if you could deliver your last words to that camera right there. Sean, you can't stay here. We can come back any time now. Give it up for Sean Evans, everyone, the first standing ovation at Last Meal's History and thank you all so much. Oh, Sean, you got anything to plug? You know, people know. Yeah, Hot Ones. Thank you so much for stopping by Mythical Kitchen. We got new videos every week. Go watch Hot Ones instead, it's better. Cheers. Face the reality of mortality head on with our new Last Meal's hat and tee, available now at mythical.com.