Former Union Boss on Oakland’s Decline and How to Turn It Around | Seneca Scott

Oakland's going backwards. When I was the union boss and we would decide in small rooms who we thought should be elected for the people. So I was the highest gun, I was the union guy. Now I'm organizing for my family, I'm organizing for my neighbors, for my elders who are scared to walk down the street. Our policies have created an emerging apocalypse and a modern-day hellscape. It is failed policy, it is deep-rooted institutional corruption. I say the phony progressive and the meek moderates, the spineless business people who are absolutely predatory as well, have all contributed to the decline of these cities. Who is going to fight for the masses, the regular people who cannot afford to have their vehicles stolen, who most of them don't even have $700 extra financial reserve for an emergency in their bank account, in a time where we're seeing energy and food prices skyrocket. I have no choice. If I'm going to live in Oakland, I have to fight. Hello and welcome to another episode of Bay Area Innovators. I'm your host, Steve Esparza. Our guest today is Seneca Scott, a former California labor organizer and founder of Neighbors Together Oakland. While the city of Oakland continues to struggle with crime and homelessness, Seneca is working in the trenches to revive the city he loves and that he made hope over 20 years ago. He was a candidate for mayor of Oakland and continues to be involved at every civic level in the city. Today, we'll talk about Oakland as well as a couple of compelling and inspiring things that Seneca is involved with. Seneca, welcome to our program. Thanks for having me. So first, I want to mention actually to our audience, you were on American Thought Leaders a couple of months ago or so. I advise our audience to watch that program. You know, we're not going to talk about the same things. We're going to talk about different things. So the first thing I want to ask you is about the recalls. You know, I think recently there's enough signature gathered to initiate the recall for District Attorney Pamela Price. Yes. At the same time, the Oakland mayor is in the process of getting signatures. We had Chesa Boudin being recalled a couple of years ago. The Governor Newsom has been not recalled, but there was a recall against him as well. What is happening with these politicians? Why are they failing us so bad these days? Well, I think it's the disconnect from the voters. They no longer feel that they have to listen or do what the voters ask because we're not the ones who are electing them. So when it comes to... Let's take... Let's throw away the governor recall for a moment. So the governor recall is a little different than the other local recalls that you're seeing. And particularly for Chesa, and for the school board members in San Francisco, as well as the Oakland mayor. They were all elected in a new and very dangerous voting system called Ranked Choice Voting. Yes. I call it Rigged Choice Voting because it allows for manipulation. And you're supposed to rank a number one through whatever, and you vote. You have more than one choice. America was founded on one person, one vote. And Ranked Choice Voting allows someone to win without even having a simple majority. For example, Oakland's mayor, Shintyle, won with 673 votes. And 3,093 votes were disqualified due to error because it's a complicated voting system. She only received less than 30% of the popular vote. She got less than one third... I'm sorry, less than one third. She got 31 point something percent. And then she wins. She never had a mandate. And so when you have a voting system that allows someone to win without getting a simple majority of the people, that means they've won without a mandate and they've won without the consent of the people. So what you're seeing here is a dangerous voting system, but also people who are not being elected with the mandate of the people. And this is a big point that I want to end this question with. If you look at who's being failed and who votes, a lot of people in America do not vote. Our voter turnouts are very, very low. Why is that? Ranked Choice Voting aside, we have low voter turnout even in places that don't have this Ranked Choice Voting system. Why is that? Who votes and who doesn't vote? I'll give you a guess. Who votes? In an American city, who votes? People with education. People with assets. People who pay taxes, property taxes directly to the city. People who pay business taxes directly to the city. People with more equity. They vote. Who doesn't vote? The working class. People who feel that they have no political agency. People who don't have the luxury of time to research candidates. People who don't have a disposable income. To contribute politically. And then we have this divide and the people who are voting are voting for luxury politics of the elite that are adversely affecting the poor and working class. And in Oakland, it just so happens that the rich people live on a hill and the regular poor people live in the flatlands. The hills vote nearly two to one as the flatlands. So there's a lack of political agency which leads to a lack of political will on behalf of the elected to do anything for people who not only are not voting, but they're not going to give you any money. So I don't need to talk to the poor. I don't need to talk to the working class. Because they're not voting. So that's the majority of America. And so that disconnect is a natural one that we could fix by a more robust votership. That we could fix by instead of having low information voters, having high information voters. And particularly what we're doing in Oakland, California, you can fix by bridging the gap between the financial elite and your upper middle class and your upper class with the working class in natural ways. Where it's not like a blame game or this political vitriol, but it's more of we all live and coexist in a city and we need to have a real conversation about how these policies that we're voting for, ultimately it's policy. Policy determines where our taxpayer dollars are earmarked. And if you take Oakland for instance, we're in a bubble of failed policy. We are bordered by four cities. Alameda, San Leandro, Berkeley, and Emeryville. Every one of those cities is much cleaner, much safer. Every one of those cities have a lot more businesses open that haven't failed. Those cities have In-N-Outs open. Those cities have Denny's open. Those cities, again, their property values are not plummeting the way ours are due to public safety issues. You can still get insurance for your automobile or your business in those cities. Can't do that in Oakland if they're not insuring us anymore because it doesn't make any business sense to insure someone when you're almost guaranteed death. So I could go on and on and on about why these people are disconnected, but it comes down to voting and money. You lived in Oakland about 20 years, is that right? 10 years. Please tell us about your motivation. You've been involved in almost every civic level. You're in the trenches. You know, you're working in the trenches to revive Oakland. Tell us your motivation and the things you're doing to make it happen, to make Oakland better. You know, my motivation, to be honest, is just self-defense. I'm like a lot of people who, the American archetype, we just want to be left alone. We want to just work and raise a family and go to church and be left alone. But we can't anymore because our neighbors are being robbed and killed and our properties are being stolen and we're giving taxes to people who are not using it to fix the road or teach our children in the school. So it is self-defense. Hunter Thompson says that, it's not a direct quote, but do you know who Hunter Thompson is? The Johnny Depp? Okay, he's one of the most famous reporters in American history. He's known for being like a crazy guy, but he was a very famous reporter. He was an excellent writer and he has a famous quote that says, I don't like politics except in self-defense. So I don't do politics. So I always avoided politics. When I was the union boss or the top union director for the city of Oakland, that's what I came to Oakland to do. I was the East Bay director for SEIU 1021. And so all of the East Bay, I was in charge of that negotiation for those contracts for those East Bay cities, a bunch of them. And including Bard and Port of Oakland and all these other major institutions. And I led those negotiations 10 years ago as a very young union leader. I live in LA when I was the union boss of Oakland. I stayed in hotels and we would decide in small rooms who we thought to be elected for the people. And I believe, I believe that we were electing worker-friendly people. We were putting our union's money, our members' money behind people who are gonna do the right thing for the working class. And that we were being outspent by the big businesses and the big billionaires. And maybe that was the case 10 years ago. But I'm paying a penance. The political trajectory that I helped set off in Oakland has put me back on my own heels. That's because for the first time in my organizing life, I'm organizing for me. As a paid organizer for unions, I was never a nurse or fireman or TSA officer or janitor or teacher. I never did those jobs. So I was a hired gun. I was the union guy. Now I'm organizing for my family. I'm organizing for my neighbors, for my elders who were scared to walk down the street. For my tax dollars and my business so I can get customers again and not go bankrupt. You know, I have small businesses as well that were failing in Oakland. Somewhat due to the pandemic, but we never recovered again as the surrounding cities are having a robust economic recovery. Oakland's going backwards as surrounding cities are becoming more safe every day. Take for instance, East Palo Alto that just went record length without a murder a whole year. It used to be the murder capital of the world. Their policies have created a safe and livable city. Our policies have created an emergent apocalypse and a modern day hellscape. So it's out of self-defense. I know you've seen Taken, the movie Taken with Liam Nelson and his daughter. As a professional organizer, I have a certain set of skills as the movie says where I know how to build a movement, execute on tactics that are impactful, punch above our weight financially because we have very little money or resources. And most importantly, give people the agency and get them past their apathy to understand that they actually can make a difference in their local politics and take these officers back from the failed progressives. Take these school boards back from people who don't care about our children. Take these city halls back from people who are managing the decline for the handlers. So in a way, I have no choice. If I'm gonna live in Oakland, I have to fight. Would you say it's fair to say that the city of Oakland is declining because the choice people have made when they voted or the rigged election? We're declining for a variety of reasons but we should not be. First, let's talk about why Oakland should be one of the most prosperous, livable cities in the United States of America with perfect year-round weather. We have a major port. I shouldn't have to say more. A port city with perfect Mediterranean weather, our geographical proximity to wine country and Yosemite and all of these beautiful, some of the most breathtaking natural surroundings that people come from all around the world to see. And here we are nestled right here. We should be printing money. It is failed policy. It is deep-rooted institutional corruption and that deep-rooted institutional corruption existed before the progressives. They're not completely to blame. I say the phony progressive and the meek moderate, the spineless business people who are absolutely predatory as well have all contributed to the decline of these cities. And so it's interesting that people who are, I just say regressives. I don't like to keep calling them phony. I'm tired of the air quotes, but the regressives, they don't care about the poor and working class. So who is going to fight for the masses, the regular people who cannot afford to have their vehicles stolen, who most of them don't even have $700 extra financial reserve for an emergency in their bank account in a time where we're seeing energy and food prices skyrocket weekly. Every time you go back to the grocery store, I mean, you're talking about people who never used to check the price of fuel or food are now having to wonder where their money's going and at least be conscious of what they're spending. I'm one of them. I never used to look at gas. I never used to look at how much a plane costs or like those things where we need, we can at my income level, right? The cost of food used to be so affordable. I never even entered my equation about my budgeting process, having no children. And just now I have to, you know, look up $2,000 on food in one month. I may be out of myself, but the point is that I don't have children. What families can afford a $7 apple or a $10 loaf of bread or $8 carton of eggs? We cannot afford those escalating prices. $7 a gallon, what is it now? Six bucks a gallon, you know, like that is ridiculous. You can't afford that. Our salaries have not gone up. And so this is kind of off topic slightly, but here's the issue right now that we're having with our political spectrum. We have a wealth disparity issue. We have a corporate greed issue. We have a Federal Reserve gets to print whatever the F they want issue. And it's causing big problems with poverty in America. So the progressives or regressives framing that we have problems is correct. There's solutions or purported solutions to the problem have been counterproductive. At worst, at best have done nothing to solve anything. And so after having one, two, three, four tries, I felt policy and then see an amount of money they get from taxpayers for this nonprofit and NGOs increased despite no ability to show proof of concept. That is my main issue. The problem on the, and I'm using left and right because that's what most people understand. The problem on the right is that knee jerk, I'm anti-woke doesn't work because you're ignoring the fact that there are issues. There are economic issues. The country's not on an upward trajectory when it comes to the economic mobility of the average person, the common person. That's what I wanted to ask you next. Related to the progressives and or you call them regressives and the social justice movement. What are the merits of it? And did it go too far? So as a person who is pro-worker and pro-social justice, who needs justice? Someone who's been abused. Who's being abused in America and by whom? People whose fortunes are being inflated away. Everyone who does not get to share in the wealth of Wall Street as they inflate assets. So we have a big divide in this country right now. And it's going to create a two-tier system like you have in most countries. We don't have this middle class in most countries. The middle is dissipating. If you do not, I'm sorry. If you did not hold assets prior to 2009, 2010, when the way that the government fixed our economic crisis in the great recession of 2008 was to lower interest rates to basically zero and turn on the money printer. It was the best time ever. You have assets. Take COVID. So the economy, the stock market crashed in 2020 March. You know what all the affluent people did who actually had money managers? They put everything they had into the S&P 500. And guess what happened? It went to the moon. They got rich, rich. I mean, I got friends make fortunes off S&P 500 from 2020 to 2024. It's still edging up. It hasn't even, you know, it's been up and up and up. Of what? Based on what? There are no fundamentals anymore. The Federal Reserve has become the buyer and lender of last resort. However, if you hold assets, that means your assets were inflated. So the financialization of our economy had created, wiped out the middle class. In my opinion, we no longer have the middle class. We have working poor because the middle class is gone for the most part. And even the people who used to think that they were upper class, maybe they're the new middle class. Maybe the new middle class are people who are doctors and lawyers who used to think that they were ahead of the game. And now, because maybe they didn't invest enough, or they didn't have enough assets that benefited from the Federal Reserve's inflation, you know, boosting the money supply, they're out. Let's talk about the other people who have, what's an asset to a renter? The majority, the average American has no assets. We don't even know what it is. You ask them, what are you talking about? I got a car. Right? Depreciated asset? They have no assets that could benefit from the financialization of our economy. They had no house that value could increase. They had no business. They had no stock portfolio. They had no bonds. They had no company investment. So, they're only out. They have no way to keep up. The only people who can keep up with this inflation are people whose assets are keeping up. Artificially, because the Federal Reserve is pumping the money supply. Most people believe that that party is about to end. And they're going to pull the rug from out among us. And what we were talking about before we hit the action button was if you look at the World Reserve currencies, and I think it was, I don't know, a bunch of European countries, and then it went to France, then to England, then to America. They don't last but 100 years or so. Our time is pretty much up. Where are we moving to? Digital, global, a lot is in flux right now. We're in a transitional period in our global economy. We're in a transitional period in our culture. And what it means to be a worker in America. There's a lot going on. So, if you don't frame the problem quick enough, that there are social justice needs. We have, let's take a hierarchy of needs. I'm going to re-answer the question very succinctly if you don't mind. Social justice. Who needs justice? People who right now are not able to access, even if they do their part of the social bargain and make a good faith effort to work and save and raise a family, are not able to access the hierarchy of needs. Quality air, water, food, shelter, safety, being paramount. It's not safe because they've defunded the police. And I can't keep my business open because I keep getting robbed. Or I'm in Oakland where one out of 30 of us have had our cars stolen in the past year. The barge is not being upheld by the government. If my water is not being kept safe, then I can't access safe water. My air quality is being affected. We have three fires a day of vehicles in Oakland alone. Where are the environmentalists? This is one of the biggest environmental impacts every day. I'm in a war zone. This is compounding the history of environmental racism or class-based environment destruction. There's justice there. We're breathing toxic air because our government won't enforce our camping laws and uphold the laws in the book. So there's justice needed from the poor. So there is social justice needed. But the people who have claimed themselves to be social justice warriors are actually working on behalf of the bad guys now. And many of them don't know. They're useful idiots of the elites to push these very dangerous policies. So I think that there is a need for a new social justice movement in America that is multi-racial and multi-class. The poor must link with our soon-to-be poor. If you're an elite in America and you own your home in, let's say, one or two more investment properties, and you've done the normal things. I've got a little stock portfolio. I've got a Roth IRA. I've got some bonds. I've got, you know, a company I invest in. I know many people like that. Guess what happens? They haven't been able to get rent for four years. You do these eviction moratoriums that we talk about a lot on your show. The businesses are failing now because of the crime. I know several people who are easily worth over $20 million who are now facing bankruptcy crisis themselves. As a result of the moratorium? These are people who used to be rich. Someone who is in Oakland Hills in a $5 million home is closer to a renter in deep East Oakland, barely struggling to survive, than they are the real elite who actually have significant resources. So we're in a very, very scary and unpredictable time in America, and there is a need for a strong worker movement of families and people who, it comes down to our values and our culture. We had another interesting conversation last time we talked. You mentioned how in the 50s, there was a historical book written by a white person, and then pretty much the same time period, a historic book written by a black person. And when you looked at them, they were very similar. Yes. Tell us about it. So I found this book, one of my most prized possessions. It is a pictorial history of the Negro in America. It was written by Langston Hughes and Melton Metzer and published in 1957. And Langston Hughes autographed both of them. I never knew who Melton Metzer was before I got the book, but Langston Hughes, who I absolutely knew who he was, like one of the most famous black writers, had autographed this book. And it's an awesome book. And it has, from the time the slave ships came over, as the name suggests, it's a pictorial, so it had all these illustrations, and it was the history of the Negro in America. Not the Americas, but just the United States of America. And it went from, you know, 1770, I'm sorry, 1492, which was when the first slaves came, to the 1950s. A couple months later, I found an encyclopedia set. It wasn't one guy, it was a timeline. And it was also published in 1957. And it was the history of America. And it's awesome. It's 12 books. Each one has the flag, like the Bunsen flag, the first American flag. And I'm thinking, oh, I can't wait to take the white book, which is my thinking at the time, two years ago when I found it, because there's no way that this book is absolutely written by white people. It's written in the 50s, right? And I wanted to compare it to the black book, written by black scholars. And I'm thinking, it's gonna be this big difference in the historical account of slavery. And I was very wrong. They were nearly identical. Now, the book, The Pictorial History of the Negro in America, of course, went into a deeper dive of the black experience. But nevertheless, there was no incongruency with these two bodies of work. And I was trying to make sense of what's going on here. Did I remember my former education in the 90s? I grew up in the 90s. Cleveland, Ohio, all black city. Most of my teachers were black. My neighbors were black. My bus driver was black. Everybody around me was black. We sang the Black National Anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance every day. If you don't know the Black National Anthem, yes, black people have our own national anthem. It's called Lift Every Voice and Sing. This is a beautiful song. But we also said the Pledge of Allegiance. And we put our hands over our heart. And we talked about how proud we were of black people's contributions to this beautiful country. And we were taught to be proud of our grandfather's service in our military. It's a different tone. It wasn't not proud to be black, but it wasn't ashamed to be American. And we learned algebra in eighth grade. We learned phonics. And even though some of us may have failed a few grades, not me, I did pretty well. I went to Cornell. But my friends back then, who I thought may not have ended up well, they're doing great. They're doing great, most of them. Why? Because we learned the basics in our schools. They don't teach anymore. The main part I wanted to bring up is I was disturbed. It's something that went wrong. And so I reached out to my friend. Why did I reach out? I heard my friend in a podcast. And he was talking about how the CIA introduced narrative to our history in the 70s as a means of disrupting Fred Hampton and all those other social justice warriors we just spoke about. That's how they co-opted that movement. And so anytime you have an organic movement coming up, the government likes to get its tendrils in it and use it for their own purposes, to divide us or keep and maintain their power. And so it made perfect sense. These books were the same because what is history? An exhaustive account of as many details that I can find related to what has happened in the past. What were they wearing? What drugs were they using? What was the water quality? There is no data point too small to account for history because it gives us further view. But it's just data. It's just facts. If the facts are this native village raided this native village, killed a bunch of people and raped a bunch of women, you can decide they're the bad guys, they're the good guys. There's no protagonist or antagonist in history that should not be an antagonist or a protagonist in history. That is up to the viewer or the reader and their own discernment with their own individual set of values to determine. History has decided that Hitler's bad. We didn't need to introduce that narrative. Nowhere in our history books did it say Hitler was a bad man. It just said Hitler presided over the genocide of this many people or Stalin helped, which is what they did. And if you don't like it, if you don't dig it, you don't like the dude or the lady. You know what I mean? When you don't have to create this narrative. So now we're not getting history anymore. We're getting spoon fed a very insidious and deliberate narrative to recreate history in the eyes of our oppressor. And by our oppressor, I mean our global elites who want to control all of us. How does it make you feel when you see that history being either changed or influenced or opinionated? How do you feel when you see that? Pretty bad. Next, I want to ask you about your goat garden. I feel that's something you're doing, you know, again... Lighten the mood a little bit. Yeah? Yes, yes. You have meetings there. You have, you know, people come there. You know, we actually covered your garden. We had the story on it a couple of years ago, I think. Well, we have a community farm that has goats. I think right now we just had two new kids which are baby goats. Four this season. So I think we have maybe 10 goats. And four are milking. So we do get milk every day. We also have maybe 50 chickens. 40 or 50 chickens, they die and stuff. But a lot of chickens. When one thinks of Oakland, probably would not think of a garden. Where do you even have room for having a whole garden? Oh, well, goat... Actually, Oakland is famous for victory gardens. Like many American cities. Oakland also is not as developed as a lot of our cities. So there are a lot of vacant lots or unused spaces that it left un... Like I'll take for instance, our garden was a blighted lot filled with trash. Like some of those videos you see me make. And then in 2014, we cleaned the trash out. The only things growing there was fennel and a few weeds. Now you have over 300 species of plants. Enormous amount of biodiversity. We have hops and olive tree and passion fruit and all these different mints and herbs and perennials and flowers and bees and hummingbirds. And it's created this oasis in our neighborhood. Our property values adjacent to the garden increased and our violent crime decreased. And this community garden is located on one of the most... Previously, one of the most violent streets in America, 8th Street in West Oakland, connected Acorn Project and Campbell Village Project. So two major housing projects were connected. And it was a war, I say war in the 90s and all the way up to where we moved there. We've seen people shot, killed. 10 years ago when we first moved to Oakland, we've seen people AK-47 shot dead right in front of the garden. It's crazy, but not now. And why is that? Because it feeds people. We have food banks and food drives and everyone has to eat. Even your hardcore gangsters were kids when we knew them. I moved here 10 years ago. You were 13, you're 23 now. So I knew you when you were young. We helped feed you. You got to get food. When your mother didn't want to go have any money, she would send you to the garden and you would get whatever you needed. And we would provide mutual aid for our neighbors free of judgment. And so community gardens are typically seen as gentrified where they're not for the inhabitants. So our community garden took the approach that nothing is radical or revolutionary unless it's accessible to everyone. So that radical accessibility for community livestock, building parallel systems where you can grow your own food and nutrition, and then educating people about how different, what a difference it is to have nutrient-dense food and the importance of that in early learning and community holistic health. All these buzzwords that the progressives used to throw around so they can get some money for the non-profits, but they didn't walk the walk. They didn't do it. So the goats are just the market. It's the most attractive thing to bring people to the garden because nothing's cuter than a baby goat. But it's a big farm. We have lots of animals. How do the neighbors and community feel about it? What feedback do you get? Oh, they love it. It's one of the best things about living in our neighborhood. That garden has launched Ocala Festival, which has become a major music festival in Oakland. We're bringing in global action now to the city. It's launched. Multiple people have started their restaurants at our garden kitchen because we have all of this produce and we have a beautiful outdoor kitchen with industrial equipment that mimics a restaurant. So if you want to start a restaurant, you can start in the garden and sell food to your neighbors and then take that business model and take less risk. So many different non-profits or groups or clubs have come from this garden because it's a third space that we don't have in America anymore. Think about our third spaces are supposed to be parks. Look at the conditions of parks in Oakland. I'm sure you're going to roll some B-roll right now. So as a reminder, look at the condition of the parks in Oakland. As an editor, your B-roll reminder is pull up my videos and show those parks. You can't play in these parks, man. They're filled with trash and junkies and needles and it's just dangerous. You can't even walk to the park. It's not safe. And so we don't have these third spaces that we need to keep our communities revitalized and make sure that we actually get to know each other in an organic fashion so that we're not siloed in our own world. We get to talk to our neighbors and get to know what we need and can help each other. If someone comes to visit your farm, can they do that? Can they go in? Oh, yes. We don't have beds. It's yours. It's completely socialist. But no, there's no ownership in our farm. If you come to the garden and you want to have a plan of bed, it's not yours. It's everyone. Here's the reason why. You know what land you need to actually grow food to sustain your entire calorie intake? Our garden would maybe provide everything you need without going to a grocery store for a family of three and a half, maybe four. That's how many calories you need a day, every single day. So what's the point of this ownership of something that you know is not going to be enough for everyone? It's a model for you to go home or supplement. It's a place for us to share and we all can eat from the bounty. It's not going to replace our diet, but it's something to, you can go get a couple of chickens and replace your entire egg supply and you can get baby chickens from us or learn how to feed them or learn how to care work. It's meant for people to incubate these ideas and take them back into their own world. And so we've decided not to follow the traditional garden model where people have plots or we don't sell anything except to keep the garden going. We may sell like some eggs or goat milk, but mainly it's just for people to share and exist. And one of my favorite quotes is from Helen Keller because I'm blind and deaf. Well, I'm not deaf or blind, but I'm halfway to both. I can't see the jack. Security is largely a superstition. It does not exist in nature. Life is either a grand adventure or nothing. I love that quote. If you extrapolate that, if it does not exist in nature, that means nature could reset us with a storm. And now we all need shelter. I can't build it myself. I'm going to need your help. There is a time for collectivism and there's a time for rugged individualism. And so you have to have a fluid, political system that's able to acknowledge when you have certain needs. That's why America's New Deal was one of the best parts of our story. It created the economic mobility. That was a largely socialist program. It was an entitlement program. To stay away from them as a rule because you don't like socialism because you've seen it fail and it has failed the versions that we've seen. So it's complicated. I think that people need to... If you're not careful, that's how you end up with the fake Marxist or your bad socialism. I don't know if there is a good socialism. I don't know. The point is, if you don't acknowledge that there is a problem with our economic mobility, if you don't acknowledge that the powerful people, the elite are trying to dominate us, then they will give us our solution. That's what's happening right now with wokeism. Wokeism is a fake solution given to us by our elites to keep us subservient. You've got to wake up. You have to send a hand across the aisle to the young kids. Don't demonize them or call them stupid or they're going to genocide you. That's what happens. You've got to tell them, I know you're upset. I know you don't think you have a future. Imagine being 20 in America right now and not coming from an affluent family. What kind of future do you have? Not a good one right now. So if you don't talk to these people and give them a hope and purpose, they're going to find that hope and purpose with these fake movements. That's the challenge that we have right now in America. Seneca, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for what you're doing for Oakland, for the community and for the society. We really appreciate you having on our program.