趙蘭健：六四讓我反叛 看清央視造假；六四秋後算賬有指標 忘記六四枉為人 ；六四影響記者生涯 同情底層報導不公

Hello, Mr. Zhao Lanjie. Hello, host. Thank you for accepting our interview. Today, we are going to talk about June 4th. This year is the 35th anniversary of June 4th. Let's recall what we saw on August 9th and June 4th. We saw that the students were boiling with enthusiasm. They took to the streets, marched, occupied Tiananmen Square, and even protested. They are fighting for democracy and freedom for all Chinese people. I would like to ask you to recall where you were on August 9th and June 4th. You were also a student at that time. What was your situation like? During the June 4th movement, I was studying in Jilin City, Jilin Province. I was studying at an art middle school. This school was very difficult to get into. All the students were from middle school. Only the top few out of a few hundred students could get into this school. In 2019, I visited the principal and several teachers of this school. We recounted some of the June 4th events. They were not the same as they used to be. They were afraid to talk about June 4th. But I am still very grateful to this school for giving me a chance. Where did I get this chance? My parents were both middle school teachers. When I was in middle school, I was tortured by English education. Later, I was about to lose my mind. I had to get into the top few out of a few hundred students. My parents were very strict with me. When I was about to have depression, my father allowed me to study at this school. I didn't go to the local high school. When I came to this school, I studied art. I was only a teenager. It was like being raised in the wild. During the four years I studied here, I felt like my life was restored. At the same time, I was able to access the fastest information in the art industry. So I experienced a lot of stories at this school. This page of June 4th is one of the most exciting stories for me. At that time, I was a teenager. When there was a student movement all over the country, our school was also greatly affected. Many of my classmates were also in the art industry. They came to our school from Beijing and Shanghai to talk about what was happening outside. Because in 1989, the communication of information was not very good. We were completely driven by these foreign students. For almost a month, the school was closed. At that time, we were very poor. Our school gave us a few dozen dollars a month for food and drinks. There were also some tuition subsidies. At that time, the school was funded by the state. Because we were art students, we were very poor. But we also contributed our own bedsheets. Everyone contributed their own bedsheets. The bedsheets were white. We put the bedsheets together into a white cloth. We wrote the words of protest on it in black or red. At that time, some of my classmates took cameras to shoot and recorded the scenes. But after a long time, I haven't been looking for these things recently. But one by one, it has gone beyond film shooting. It has gone beyond photos. It has become an indelible memory in our minds. I remember it very well. At that time, the principal and teachers of our school were all in a state of bloodshed. They encouraged us to protest. They cursed us to protest. Because we were too young at that time. Children in their teens were not mature in their values and ideology. They were more blind. We were particularly easily motivated by foreign students. We were also particularly easily infected by the principal and teachers of our school. We were totally in a state of sympathy and resonance for the student movement in Beijing and Shanghai. We listened to American Voice every day. We listened to American Voice to understand the movements of student movements in various places. Finally, one day, our school was completely shut down. It was not because our students didn't go to class. It was because the school was completely put on leave. Then the teachers organized us to go to the municipal government of Jilin City to protest. At that time, we were in a state of bloodshed. We went to the river road in Jilin City, which was originally a very good river road. I found many trees along the street with many small bottles hanging on them. I didn't know what was going on. I asked many people, but they didn't know either. There were many small bottles with the injection liquid used by the hospital, about one inch in diameter. There was a slot on the small bottle with a lot of rope hanging on it. Many people shook the rope and hung the small bottle on the tree. There were small bottles hanging all over the river. I didn't know what was going on Later in the afternoon, I asked the people on the street why they hung so many small bottles. They said the meaning of hanging small bottles was to hang Deng Xiaoping to death. They wanted to kill Deng Xiaoping as a executioner. They hung Deng Xiaoping on the tree. This was the state of confusion at that time. We went to the street and didn't know anything. We just knew that the people on the street were very biased. They didn't know the details and the end of the story. Some people were blind, but they were very willing to fight. This was the situation at that time. We didn't go to school for almost two weeks. Later, after June 4th, the school suddenly changed its direction and didn't allow us to go to the street. At that time, we didn't go to school. We could still go to the street by ourselves. We found a lot of big newspapers on the street. The big newspaper wrote that Beijing June 4th Tiananmen Massacre We didn't know that there was such a massacre in Beijing. It lasted for several days before we were organized by the school to go to class. The first program of the organized class was all the students who were waiting to be taught in the school. They were waiting to be criticized. The school changed its direction and arrested two students and expelled them. Why did you arrest these two students? What was the reason? I think these two students were too arrogant. They were like student leaders. At that time, every school had a target. After the June 4th Tiananmen Massacre, the police station in Jilin set a target for every school. Every school had to arrest the leaders of the June 4th Tiananmen Massacre. Some students were detained and some were expelled. I don't know if these two students were detained or expelled. Anyway, they were definitely expelled because they were sentenced in the school. When these two students were expelled, many students were reluctant to send them away. I remember one of them was wearing glasses and was willing to think about the problem. He had a spirit of rebellion. This is the only memory I have. It is said that this person later contacted other people in our school. I don't know the specific situation. In short, every school has an order to expel or punish students. How old were these two students who were expelled? At that time, most of our students were 16 or 17 years old. Some were 15 years old, some were 16 or 17 years old, and some were 18 or 19 years old. We were middle school graduates who graduated from middle school instead of high school graduates. In other words, you even counted the underage students. Of course. We were all underage at that time. We were all underage. We were not even 18 years old. Yes, yes. It means that after June 4th, the number of students expelled was relatively large. Yes. Your summary is very correct. Later, our students were all anxious and afraid of being kept as a secret. Because we had files when we went to school. The situation was different We were all recruited by the government. It was a school that was very difficult to get into. At that time, only 100 people could be recruited from an ordinary school. Not only did they have to pass the admission line, but they also had to have a certificate. This was caused by the environment of the Chinese education system at that time. Although our education was not cheap, it was really difficult for us to get in. After graduation, the government had a policy that you were not allowed to go to college within four years. This was caused by the education system. Later, we went to these schools secretly. Mr. Zhao Lanjian, please tell us about your life in the past. I know you are a very upright person. As a journalist, you have investigated a lot of cases, including the case of Iron Curtain Girl. What do you think about your life in the past? Thank you very much for asking this question. I think the past has fundamentally changed the values of life It has changed my life very strongly. When I was very young, my parents were all teachers. They were very strict with me. They taught me in a very low-level way. I got a very high score However, before I was 13 years old, I didn't go to school and I didn't leave my parents' sight. I was very low-level and I was brainwashed by the Communist Party. But after the June 4th incident, I think I have been awakened and enlightened. After I graduated, I was assigned to a local magazine. While I was working as a journalist and editor, I found that my colleagues were different from me. After that, I went to Beijing to work as a journalist in a local magazine. During this period, I focused on the people of the grassroots society and their sympathy and concern. I think these factors came from the June 4th incident. Suddenly, I could look at our society without thinking about announced by the Central Committee or the Central Propaganda Department. From a third-party perspective, I could look at the writer of the Central Committee. Because I was one of the participants of the June 4th movement. Although I didn't go to Beijing, I felt the power of the whole society and its explosion. This power stayed in my heart throughout my career as a journalist. I was a total traitor. The work I did was totally different from the work I did in the news media. The work I did was totally different from the work I did in the news media. For example, my first interview was about the adoption of females and babies. My first article was published in the four-point magazine At that time, this magazine was a big publicity magazine and was sent to the world In this magazine, a piece of news with this kind of topic was published. It was a news with a four-point perspective. It was different from the mainstream media. Do you know a female actor named Xu Qin? Yes. Xu Qin's husband's name was Liu Bo. At that time, Liu Bo was the first in the Chinese cultural world. He also had a company called Chengcheng Culture. Chengcheng Culture acquired a large number of Chinese magazines and newspapers. The four-point magazine was led by Liu Bo. The four-point magazine was led by Liu Bo. In this magazine, I wrote the article and attracted a lot of attention from the Beijing news media. All the other media followed my article and interviewed me. Many people in the cultural world such as Cui Jian, He Ping, Mo Luo, Yu Jie supported my article. My actions were inspired by the hot blood Later, I focused on the issue of the homeless children in Beijing. I was the first in Beijing to focus on the issue of the homeless children in Beijing. I was the first in Beijing I wrote the article called Chengcheng Culture. I wrote the article called Chengcheng Culture. The People's Daily published the article called Market News. The Market News published the article called Market News. It had a great impact on the public opinion. It meant that the Beijing Education Bureau changed the homeless children in Beijing through my article. My article in the Tengri Desert, and the people in the Yangtze River Basin and the people in the Tengri Desert, and the people in the Tengri Desert, and the people in the Tengri Desert, So I don't really talk about where I worked in the past. Because the media brands I work for are the most famous brands in China. But when I was working, I recognized that my own work results had nothing to do with my work platform. I did it all for myself. The reason why I can publish my articles on Xinlang, Sohu, and Fenghuang is because I have a good personal relationship with them. It's not because I wrote an article on my job, and my job platform and Xinlang, Sohu, and Fenghuang are interlinked. It's because I use my personal relationship to publish my articles. Whether it's for the traditional media or the Internet media, the articles I publish are all based on my personal relationship. So after I did the Iron Woman incident, China was able to erase all traces of me on the Internet. The only article I published on Fenghuang is the one I wrote in the early days about the pollution of Tengri Desert. Most of the articles I published on other websites, including Sohu, Xinlang, Dagong, Hexun, and Fenghuang, were erased. Wang Yi's article was also erased. This is the price of my rebellion. The root of my rebellion is that I participated in the June 4th parade when I was a teenager. The June 4th incident had a great psychological impact on my youthful mind. Yes, it takes courage to do what you just said. You know the consequences of what you do. It's risky, but you still do it out of conscience. You are very brave to take this step. I admire you very much. Milan Kundera has a famous saying, which is often quoted widely. He said that the struggle for human rights is a struggle between memory and forgetfulness. We also see that the CCP has been concealing the truth of June 4th for so many years, the true history of June 4th. In fact, many young people in mainland China don't know about June 4th at all. They haven't seen the picture of the tank man. The whole world knows about it, but people in mainland China don't know about it. The CCP has been making people forget for so many years. It even wants to erase this history. It doesn't seem to exist. As you just mentioned, the CCP doesn't want people to see all the reports you made. What do you think Chinese people, including overseas Chinese, should do? How can we prevent this history from being erased? It is still remembered by people. Do you think this is important? Your question touches on some sensitive points in my heart. There are a lot of things that I can't say out loud. Because if I say it out loud, I will offend a lot of people. First of all, I would like to thank overseas Chinese for paying attention to June 4th. They have been paying attention to it for 35 years. This achievement is the foundation to preserve the memory of the Chinese people. Without this foundation, there is no possibility for China to recover in the future. At the same time, I hope that the Chinese people on the other side of the wall will not let their conscience be destroyed. I think this is very important. When some overseas Chinese and their friends put some glory on my head and respect me, I will tell them that I am not as noble as they think I am. I am not like those brave people and leaders who advocated for the June 4th movement. I don't have those efforts and I don't have those conditions. All I have is a desire for a society that does not kill. If the environment in which I live is oppressed, violent, and even slave-like, I may be powerless. But at least I have to make sure that I have a clear mind. If I don't have this, I will feel ashamed. This is why I called some of my classmates a few days ago. I wanted them to help me recall some details of the June 4th movement. But as soon as they heard that I was going to talk about this topic, they automatically hung up on me and blocked me. I think this is an act of willingness to be a slave. I don't think we should give up our conscience and courage. When I was involved in the Tiananmen massacre, I was also afraid that the Tiananmen murderers would come to Beijing and search for me. I was also afraid that the national security forces in Beijing and Hebei would continue to search for me. But when I faced them, I felt that I still had the ability to control and influence them. Where does this influence come from? It comes from my recognition of the kindness of my heart. When I feel that my goodwill has reached the lowest point of my heart, I even think that I can influence the national security forces and the police. They also have children, right? If their children are locked up for 20 years, and they are raped every day, and eight children are born, if they have children, because they are just protesting against the government, seeking justice and democracy, and then they are killed by tanks, what will they think? I think these things can be discussed. It can influence them. In the end, the national security forces in Beijing and the police in Beijing did not torture me too much. It's not just because I took a picture with the chairman of the UN Human Rights Council, Wachir Michele Bachelet. It's not just because I met a few former presidents. To a certain extent, it's because I opened my heart to them, and I let go of my human nature. They were kind to me, and they let me go. So, I suggest that, for example, my former classmates, or other netizens in the wall, or ordinary people, when you face the issue of June 4th, if you have a feeling of fear, you should ask yourself, do I still have a kind heart? Do I still dare to question some killings? This is the bottom line of being human. If we give up this bottom line, I think there is no point in being human. We should see ourselves as human beings. So, when many people are giving me high-ranking titles and titles, I am willing to turn them into the most basic human nature. I think what I have done should be done by an ordinary person, not by a hero. Because I didn't do anything. I just went for Iron Maiden, I went to the police station, I testified, and I escaped easily under the pressure of the police. I think everyone can try to do these behaviors. But you can't give up your basic rights as an ordinary citizen or even as an ordinary human because of the so-called environmental factors When we give up these basic rights, we should see ourselves as human beings, not human beings. So, can you give some hope to the young people now? We can stand up bravely from the time of 1989, and even sacrifice our lives to fight for democracy and freedom. How can the young people learn this spirit from them and pass it on? Is there anything you want to say? I think from 1989 to the White Paper Revolution, it was a gradual weakening process The Chinese nation gradually adapted to the process of slavery. If we compare 1989 to the time of a real man, then the White Paper Revolution is clearly a cowardly struggle. I think the White Paper Revolution is a feminine revolution, but it is unfair to feminists because in the international community, they don't think there is a difference in power between men and women. I can only say that the 1989 movement is more like a real man. The White Paper Movement is more like a man This is a correct description. Those who don't want to offend the White Paper Revolution can also say this. But they also shouted the slogan of the Communist Party to step down. I was very touched by this slogan when I watched the video. But we should know that the 1989 revolution was more like a proactive attack. They didn't attack just for their own gain. But the White Paper Revolution was a passive attack. The three-day epidemic in China has solidified the people into a state of prison. Only when the whole society is in this state can people rise up to fight. This is not the case with the 1989 revolution. The spirit of the 1989 revolution is more fearless and more proactive. The White Paper Revolution is more weak and more proactive. These are the two different perspectives of the time. In the 1980s, the spirit of the Chinese people was more social and proactive. The spirit of the Chinese people was more proactive and less proactive. I think these factors are related to the forced suppression of the Chinese government, to the education brainwashing of China, and to the policy of the single-child policy of China. Under these circumstances, the Chinese people are more adaptable than those in the 1980s or 1970s. They are more adaptable than those in the 1980s or 1970s. The Chinese people are more adaptable than those in the 1980s or 1970s. They have already been brainwashed by the Chinese. They can't discuss the truth My WeChat group has 90% of people who don't dare to answer my questions. As long as I post a question about the society, I will be silent or even blacklisted. It's not a sensitive question. It's not a common social issue. I thought they would be proud to tell me that they took part in the June 4th movement. But no one told me that. All of them avoided this topic. This is a social phenomenon in China. We can't just ignore these phenomena just because someone said that the Communist Party had stepped down. Even if someone said that the Communist Party had stepped down, even if someone said that the Communist Party had stepped down, what they'll end up with is a blank slate. They don't have slogans. They're just blank slates because they're afraid of jail. It's like the 1989 battle against the tanks. It's totally different. We can't let the blank slate and raised them to the fearless height of the 1980s. Yes, but we also have to see that the CCP has actually strengthened its totalitarian rule over the years, including cameras all over the country. This situation is very different from that of 1989. Yes, it is precisely because of this cruel suppression that many of our people have adapted to this cruel suppression. They think that having these surveillance cameras can be a reason for their stability. This is wrong. We can't just sit back and do nothing just because we have so many surveillance cameras. I think this is wrong. At least we should have the courage to speak out the truth and express our thoughts. No matter what, this is a question posed by the police. Even if it is a question posed by the police, we should try to discuss the truth with the police. If we lose such characteristics, we will be ungrateful. We can't let all the oppression be hidden by one surveillance camera. This is wrong. Okay, I have finished my question for today's interview. Mr. Zhao, do you have anything to add? No, I don't. I would like to thank you for your three points. I have been talking for a long time. If you could help me to make some edits and present some wonderful words, I think it will be more acceptable to the audience. Okay, no problem. And my point of view is more prominent. It is that very few people talk from this perspective now. Because everyone thinks that if we have too many surveillance cameras, we can be silent. If we print a blank piece of paper, it will be the pinnacle of our lives. I think this is wrong. No matter how strict the oppression is, we have to stick to the kindness at the bottom of our hearts. We have to stick to the human nature at the bottom of our hearts. We have to use the most basic things to influence the iron fists that pierce into our hearts. We have to use the kindness at the bottom of our hearts to influence the violent rulers to influence their decisions. This is what I think is right. When we can't stick to the kindness at the bottom of our hearts, when we can't stick to the human nature at the bottom of our hearts, then I think we are slaves. Are we willing to be slaves? This is a question we have to think about and raise. We have to be a human being and a slave. I think this is how we remember the meaningful and real aspects of the Sixth Amnesty. I think this is how we remember the meaningful and real aspects of the Sixth Amnesty. We can't just remember the Sixth Amnesty just to remember the Sixth Amnesty. We have to reflect on the impacts of the Sixth Amnesty on our lives today. We have to remember the Sixth Amnesty and how it influenced the change of our lives in the future. This is what makes it meaningful. It's meaningless to remember it. So, I would like to refute your opinion. What's so different about the Sixth Amnesty and the White paper revolution? What is the difference between the six forms? The six forms are more different. The six forms are more fearless. The six forms are pursuing the truth. The people of the White Paper Revolution are weaker than the six forms. The people of the White Paper Revolution are more self-reliant than the six forms. The White Paper Revolution is more... The White Paper Revolution is more passive than the six forms. The six forms are a kind of passive attack. The White Paper Revolution is a kind of passive attack because it has been confined for too long. It wants to change the current state of the epidemic in the country. I think it has nothing to do with the value of the six forms. The six forms only want to change the current state of the epidemic. I said it wrong. The White Paper Revolution only wants to change the current state of the epidemic. So it is weak against the White Paper Revolution. It has no more demands. It has no more clear demands. The six forms are not like that. The six forms only want to change the current state of the epidemic in China. Do they want to pursue democracy? Or do they want to be slaves? I said it wrong. The six forms are more passive. They want to make choices for the future of society. Anti-corruption is one of the main motivations of the six forms. The six forms are also the main motivations for seeking democracy and freedom. If we compare the six forms with the White Paper Revolution, I think it is more passive. The two clips of the six forms are very touching. One is my responsibility. The short video. The other is the tankers' battle on Chang'an Street. The courage of the skin. There is no such scene in the White Paper Revolution. These scenes are bloody. They are all about taking risks. I think this spirit is an indispensable part of the century-long history of the Chinese nation. Because it is an extreme of humanity. It is an extreme of human struggle. You think that for the benefit of others, you can let yourself be broken. And it is a kind of fearless spirit that infects the whole world. The White Paper Revolution can't be compared with this kind of height. So, from your point of view, how many people do you think can stand out if there is a June 4th demonstration tomorrow? I think very few. Because the highest state of mind of most Chinese people is only the peak state of the White Paper Revolution. It is impossible to go higher than the White Paper Revolution. So, in recent years, it is difficult for Chinese people to have a social movement like the June 4th. It is related to the state of mind of the whole people. Because Chinese people are like frogs in the warm water. Everyone is trying to protect themselves in the gap. To what extent? To the extent of suicide. They dare not resist. In Chongqing, Taiyuan, and Chengdu, there are so many people who jump into the river. People who jump into the river without hesitation. They would rather die than resist the slaves of this society. This is the current state of China. So, this is the slogan of the White Paper Revolution that I just refuted. I think the White Paper Revolution is a height. It is the height of the past ten years. But this height and the height of August 9th and June 4th are completely different. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Zhao Lanjian, for accepting our interview. Thank you. Thank you, reporter Xiao. Thank you, audience. Goodbye.