Celtics battle Luka, Mavs in NBA Finals: Tatum says ‘this go-around is different” | NBA | UNDISPUTED

Good morning, Wayne. And good morning, Keyshawn. And good morning, Paul Pierce. So, Paul, you were not with us on Friday when we first discussed this NBA Finals matchup. So, it is now your turn. You are on the hot seat. Could you please tell us exactly how many games your Celtics will win the Finals in and why? I got the Celtics in sixth. I thought maybe you'd go fourth. No, no, I got respect for Dallas and, you know, Luca and Kyrie. You know, they're pretty good. They're actually pretty good. You know, but I just think the reason that the Celtics will win the NBA Finals, when you look at the heartaches that they've been through, I mean, they've been through the pain. They've been through the struggle. They have the experience. I think they understand the moment a little more than Dallas, being that this group has been there as a core. You know, Holiday has won a championship, so that's awesome to have him in the locker room. Brown and Tatum have been to the Finals. They understand the moment, and they understand that it's now or never, because you can't guarantee yourself getting back to it. You can hear it in their interviews. They're like, we're fortunate to be back here. You know, I played in one, two Finals. You never know what's going to happen. The injuries, anything can happen, but the reason why is because Dallas, as great as they are, their role players are great, I just think we're the deeper team. I think Dallas's two superstars have to play great every single night for them to win. On the flip side, there's times when Jason Tatum hasn't played well. There's times Brown hasn't played well. They still know how to win. When you got guys like Drew Holiday, Derek White, who can be good enough to win Finals MVP, I can't say that on the other side for Dallas. It's going to be Luka if they win. It's going to be Kyrie. It's going to be one of the two. There's been times Derek White has been our best player in the series. There's been times Drew Holiday has been the best player on the floor, so when I look at top to bottom, I just feel like the Celtics are a little bit deeper, and that Dallas doesn't have a lot of room for mistakes. Because if Dallas isn't at their best, I'm not sure they can beat Boston. If Luka's not at his best along with Kyrie, it'll be a long night for them. Especially with Porzingis, hopefully he's healthy with the versatility that Boston presents on defense that Dallas has not had to see throughout the playoffs for a team that can switch one through five and be effective on Luka and Kyrie. Now, I'm not saying they're going to stop them, but I think just scheming against these two, we have the versatility to do it, and in the end, the experience that we had in that Indiana series. Now, you say we didn't play anybody. Y'all say we didn't play anybody. We dealt with injuries every single round. I get it. But we've been in situations versus Indiana especially to where we've been down, and we figured out a way to win close games. So they've shown me all... They check all the boxes I say a championship team needs to have. They've shown me grit. They've shown me toughness. They've shown me that they can come back in a close situation. And these are things that you look at when you get into a championship series. And so in saying that, I'm close to saying Celtics is 5. I'm gonna say Celtics is 6. Go ahead and just go 5. No, we say 6. Go with your heart. No, no, no. Celtics in 6. Go with your instinct. I mean, you know, we're saying Celtics in 6. Yeah, 6 is a fair number. I want to see them obviously play Thursday night. Depending on how they play, they can move to 7 or 5. Just depends on what comes about us, Skip. But when you talk about the depth, I'm only talking 670. They just feel like match-up by match-up. Huh? Who's your 7th? Oh, Boston right there. I'm Boston. Come on, man. Richard running around. Is Richard running around? With his little 11 minutes in, he's gonna give you some hustle. He's gonna give you some T.J. McConnell-type hustle. But when you factor in Porzingis plus Al Hartford plus Tatum and plus Brown and plus Drew Holiday, I mean, it's just a lot. Are we sure Porzingis is gonna be? By all accounts, by the reports, he's looking good right now to play in Game 1. Yeah, so even if he didn't play in Game 1, Skip, even if he didn't play in Game 1, he'll be back at some point in this series. So when you look at it, as I've all, since this has come up, I've counseled out Luka and I've counseled out Kyrie with Tatum and Brown. Just counseled that out. Now you start talking about, okay, what are the X factors in Derek White? Who matches up with that as an X factor for the Dallas Mavericks? Or who matches up as an X factor for Drew Holiday? Or who matches up from an X factor standpoint if Porzingis plays in Al Hartford? So when you start looking at it, you say, well, they can stick the little young kid, Derek Lively, in there. He's got too much explosiveness for Al Hartford-type. Well, yeah, he's more athletic than Al, but Al's smarter than him. So Al knows how to play the game a little bit different than a young guy who's a rim protector, a lob guy, on the pick-and-roll. About 6'9", maybe? Yeah, but it's not like you're going to Lively in an isolation situation. Exactly. He's a lob threat. A lob threat. And a pick-and-roll threat in their system. So much like Paul saying, if you've got to have both for Luka and Kyrie play extremely well, for them to beat the Celtics. Now here's what I would say. The Celtics can be beat at home. It's well documented that they've struggled at home throughout the playoffs over the last couple of years. Can they drop one to Dallas at home? Yeah, they can. And that may be one of the two that pushes it to Game 6. It could be one of the two. But I don't think that they're going to wind up losing two games at home and getting swept and all that sort of stuff. No, I don't think that at all. And I just like the fact that they've been in these situations, meaning the championship, the final. They've been there. They kind of, you go through heartache and pain. This is not the Buffalo Bills, so to speak. They could wind up being the Buffalo Bills if they get there again and just keep losing. You can start to look at that that way. But they've been there. They lost. They know that pain. They watched the confetti against Golden State drop on the floor and they weren't a part of that celebration. They've been to the championship and the Eastern Conference multiple times. So Andrew Holiday's won a championship. I know Kyrie, on the other hand, has won. But those guys have been in loss. Kyrie's the only guy that's been in loss when you start looking at the players for the Dallas Mavericks. But I certainly got the Celtics in sixth skip. OK. It is my turn. I'm going to start with the Celtics are deeper. I heard this on Friday. Mm-hmm. I can't even fathom how either of you could make a point that the Celtics are deeper because I'm looking at Dallas's bench. Derrick Lively comes off the bench. Yeah. And Josh Green comes off the bench. Every time I see Jaden Hardy play, I say, starting to remind me of Vinnie the Microwave Johnson because he comes in and just lights it. And he is fearless and he just comes in making shots and making shots. One or two shots. Yeah. I know. Don't put Microwave in there. Microwave, he's about 15. And Maxi Kleber has been there and done all that and he's back and he seems like he's healthy. What has Kleber done? He's been weird. OK. But he's been there for a long time. He's made a bunch of big three-point shots for them in his time. No. OK. And Dante Exum comes in and just plays basketball at a high, hard level. And there's this kid named Tim Hardaway Jr. And I don't know what's happened to him but he is definitely a microwave. He can't see the floor. He hasn't seen the floor for a while but I just have a sneaking suspicion he's going to see it against you guys because he is a big game, big play shooter. The last two guys, if you put them in the game, they're either up 20 or down 20. OK. And you guys got Hauser and Pritchard and maybe Porzingis pushing Horford off into the bench. Solid. They've been solid. Solid. We got two flamethrowers coming off the bench that you gotta respect. Flamethrowers? That you gotta respect. You think we're going to throw flames in this series? Yeah. I don't. Flamethrowers. I don't. Come on now. But even if they didn't go as deep, let's say they stayed at six. Seven? Let's just say they stayed at six. That six is stronger than your eight. No, it's not. Yeah, it is. How could it not be? Because for most of this series, the two best players, not the one best, the two best players on this floor will be Luka and Kyrie. The two best. I'm not willing to say that. I told you on Friday. I am. I'm not willing to just say that. You're getting Father Pritchard in a moment. I get Luka. What he's done is nothing short of incredible. What did you tell me about Luka when you got to see another person at Boston? No, absolutely. Absolutely. Luka is everything as advertised. Okay. You know, he's arguably the best player in the league. But we know Kyrie has had his ebbs and flows in his playoffs now. Don't act like we forget them games where he shot three or four times and only averaged six points in the first half of like five straight games. I just watched Kyrie. If he do that same thing versus Boston, it's going to be a short series. Okay, I just watched Kyrie Irving in the conference finals average 27 points on 38 percent three-point shooting. And for the whole playoffs, he's 42 percent three-point shooting. All right, now tell me what you got for Jason Tatum and Brown. I just saw Jason Tatum and Brown both average 30 for the conference finals where Brown shoot 50 percent plus from the field and around 40 from three. Was Jimmy Butler there? I don't remember. No, I didn't conference finals. Oh, you're talking about just the conference finals? Just the conference finals. Okay, it was I mean, it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter. Oh, okay. I don't remember. All right. So, I've got a strength against your weakness because Luka is unbelievably good on the road. And I know you know this because he is nothing but the coldest blooded killer I've ever seen. Basketball killer. He's got some Jordan-esque in him. If we want to go Jordan-esque, let's go Luka on the road because he loves to shut down and shut up road crowds and you should caution your Boston fans. You better lay off Luka. This is what you gotta take into account this series. Skip and Key, listen. Luka didn't have to guard. He didn't guard Anthony Edwards. He's gonna have to guard one of Tatum, Brown, Orzingas, White, Drew Holiday. Yep. Now, in the last series versus Minnesota, you called him on. He was guarding Rudy Gobert sometimes. We don't even have to double when they switch Rudy Gobert and Donkins. Let Rudy Gobert go one-on-one with him. He can't do that with Orzingas or Al Harper. We'll put Luka on McDaniels because all he's gonna do is stand in that corner over there so Luka can just kind of rest. We'll put Luka on James Jones Jr. because all he's gonna do is stand in that corner and watch the Luka Kyrie show. I mean, James Jones, no, not James Jones, he had to guard McDaniels, Alexander, who else? I'm saying Luka on the other end. He didn't have to guard Edwards is what I'm saying. He had to guard all these other guys that just stood in the corner. Jay McDowell, Nasri, you know, these guys that just stood in the corner, didn't put no pressure on them. He's gonna have to guard Jalen Brown. He's gonna have to guard one of these guys to where he's gonna have to move and play some defense. Yeah, y'all wanna switch everything? Man, listen, he gonna have to play defense for the first time in the playoffs. And that's gonna mean something. You know what I'm saying? He's not gonna be out of Rome and hide on defense. He gonna have to work. So all these coming down and having energy for offense, it's a factor. It's a factor. And nobody, nobody alive right now playing basketball needed a week off more than Luka Doncic and he's got it. And you're gonna get it right between the eyes in the first two home games. Because in the seven road wins that the Dallas Mavericks have had in the playoffs, he shot 43% from three. And in the five straight road wins Dallas has on the road, five straight road wins, he shot 48% from three in those five games. You are in for it at home where you have had a really difficult time as Keyshawn brought up defending home court because you are now 17 and 14 over the last three years at home. How about this year? Who has a better home record this year? Dallas or Boston? Well, definitely Boston does because Dallas has shown me that they have struggled at home. So if the Celtics find a way to win games one and two. Listen, you said if. Okay. If Celtics win game one and two. When the Celtics win game one and two, this series is over. It's over. If that were to happen. If they win and when they win game one and two, which. Is that what you are saying? Is that your prediction? Yeah, this series is over. Okay, well, then you should go in five, right? I mean, I got some respect. I mean, I'm going to see what game one looks like. Then I'm going to change. Then I'll tell you. That's what I want to see. I want to see. Let me see what the matchup look like. Let me see if Porzingis is out there. Porzingis, the cheat code is out there and then we'll go from there because I was leaning toward five. But just out of respect of the future Hall of Famers, Porzingis, I mean, uh, Luca, don't get me wrong. I don't think you can beat Luca in a game seven in your house. I just don't think you can. He would love that. He would love that. Luca would rather win on the road. He's a better player on the road. Dallas will win one of the first two games and then it'll just teeter along back and forth, back and forth, all the way to a game seven that you're going to lose at all. Do you think so? Yes, sir. I got it. I feel good about this. Do you have a dinner on this? Sure we do. Okay. Yeah. And my favorite bottle of wine, Caymus. Throw some Caymus in there. You can do whatever you want. The problem with that is Keyshawn, from what I'm hearing from him, he's jumped on the duck boat. I'm not jumping on. I'm rooting for players. I'm not rooting for the team. I don't give a damn really if Boston wins or not. I want to see Tatum get the monkey off his back, Jayden Brown get the monkey off their back. You're actually rooting against players, such as Luca. No, I'm rooting for Tatum and Brown, especially Tatum, because of all the vitriol, the negative things that's been said about him over the last couple weeks dating all the way back to two years ago when he lost to Golden State. He has a second opportunity now. So I'm rooting for him, Paul, not for the Celtics, just so that you know. I mean, from what everybody's talking about, it's not a monkey on his back. It's a gorilla. I mean, but it's all right. We're going to take that gorilla right off our back, and you can come on the duck boat with us. You and Skip can join us on I wouldn't dare. I have no reason to be in Boston. There's nothing there for me. Zero. Sorry. We'll get you some clam chowder, and we'll get you on that duck boat. Okay, legal seafood. That's what we're going to do. Yeah, that's where we're going to go. That's where we're going to go. How could you say what? No, Skip, but Skip, like, Dallas has no room for error. They don't have no room for error. We've been saying, you know, Taylor's been great. He hasn't been all that great in the playoffs. Haven't you said this? Haven't we been hearing this? That would be. That's a lie, though. That's a lie. That's what I'm saying. That's been the narrative, though. The dude really can play, and he's been balling in the playoffs. He lost the Golden State. That was a hiccup when they had the better team. saying, just this year, just this year, you know, the narrative that he hasn't really played great, but when I look up, 30 and 12, Brown's been the best player, 30, you know, but that's what I'm trying to tell you, that they don't have to be great to win. Like, they're so good that them two, only one of them has to be great, I feel like, and they can win games, whereas on the other side with Dallas, I think they both have to be great, and all their wins, they both were great. Now, if Kyrie goes off, and sometimes this game looks moody, like he decides, I'm just going to play defense and pass the first half. As we saw in those first few games, in the last series and the series before, where he only took four, five shots, and it was only before he got to Minnesota before game one, he was giving you six points in the first half, but that wasn't because he wasn't shooting. I mean, it wasn't because, it was because he wasn't shooting. And that's like moody Kyrie, because we know when Kyrie comes out and be aggressive, but he's capable of doing so. Which Kyrie is going to show up? Moody Kyrie, who says, I have to start off getting my teammates involved, play defense, because if that Kyrie shows up, that only gave you six points in the first half of game, it's going to be a very short series. Well, how about the Kyrie who showed up in the second quarter of the closeout? Well, if you get game one... He scored 15 after Luke, he scored 20 in the first quarter. 20 and 15, that'll work. If you get game one versus Minnesota Kyrie or game seven Kyrie, then there's a chance. Yeah, I really can't judge. I really can't judge the Mavs based on the closeout game against the Celtics, though, Skip. Let's be fair. Against the Timberwolves? No, against the Celtics. Oh, against the Celtics. I can't judge what the Mavs did in the closeout game against the Wolves up against the Celtics. I can't look at that and say, well, Kyrie did this. Okay. The Wolves basically as we talked about on Friday, they packed it in when Luke went for 20. They kind of just... They was happy to win the one on the road. I don't know that I could count on that because even if Kyrie cooks and Luke cooks, Tatum and Brown are going to cook. They're going to start off to a fast start. They're not going to try to stick their toe in the water to figure it out like Ant-Man did. And then when it's too late, try to use the energy to come back from behind. I just don't see that happening. If they cancel those two out by their play, how do you match up the other three? That's the problem. Don't tell me Derrick Lively is getting ready to all of a sudden go for 20. And I understand he's 15 to 15 or whatever that number is on lobs and putbacks. I mean, it's not like he's facing people up and going one on one. I mean, so... So, which front line is stronger right now? Seriously, which front line is stronger, more physical, more over Boston? Well, I mean, more imposing, it's Dallas. It's by far. Ever since this trade, they have taken off. Yeah, definitely more imposing. You're counting for as he is out or in? Well, you can have him because you guys scored in the NBA. Shots at the basket, you scored, you were 26th in the NBA because you don't have a lot of physical throws. They didn't need to because they was knocking down threes. Well, and by the way, that's a good point. You realize that you guys in the regular season shot 240 more threes than any other team. Okay. And you do live and die by it. And you're going to die by it a couple times in a series. Porzingis opens up this offense because he takes advantage of the mismatch. And he's the best low post player percentage wise in the NBA. He makes you pay on those switches. And so when you say imposing, I have to go Celtics because a lot of Dallas's bigs rely on what Luca and Kyrie give them. If they get into the pick and roll and there's a lob there or a bounce pass there, that's how they score. It's not like the Celtics coming down there, getting the ball in the post, drop stepping and going up dunking on somebody. I don't know. Daniel Gafford looked like a man to me in that series. It's that big, bad three-headed monster of Minnesota. Man, that was a couple lobs. It was a lob. All he did was make every shot that he took. It was a couple lobs. It was lobs. He wasn't at the elbow knocking stuff down and turning around. So you love it that your team lives and dies from the three-point attack. I don't love it. I don't. But when you get Porzingis back, a guy who's a threat in the post, I think it does give us an opportunity to take advantage of mismatch, get to the line a little bit more. I think when the threes aren't falling, we have to find other ways, such as get to the free-throw line and attack the rim. You were low in free-throw attempts. Yeah, we were low because we're not attacking. You're right. I mean, we live and die by it. But Golden State showed you that a three-point team can win the championship. Golden State showed you that a three-point team can be a dynasty. Boy, Dallas, two nuclear weapons look like they're a little more explosive than your nuclear weapons. I mean, how about how much more? How much more? Enough to win game seven. No, no, no. It's not going to get there. I can tell. I can hear it in your voice. You've got a little bit of fear. I've got an extra seat on the duck boat for you, Skip. I'm not getting on the duck boat. I've got a couple red cigars. Really? Okay. I think there's going to be a parade in Dallas. It's been Dallas's year. I know they didn't get to the Stanley Cup, but still, it's been Dallas's year. It's been Dallas's year in what? I want two things, Skip. I'm not a y'all. You are a y'all. What do you mean? You're not a y'all. What does Dallas want? They want Major League Baseball. No, they haven't won basketball yet. No. They just want MLB. They want Major League Baseball. Yeah, MLB, they want that. This year? Yeah. Well, in a 12-month calendar. 12-month calendar. The last time they had a full season. Full season, 12-month calendar. Dallas. The Dallas what? No, it's not the Dallas-Texas range. Oh, the Texas range. Are they in Dallas? No, they're in Arlington. Oh, in Arlington. They represent Dallas. You know it and I know it. Or maybe you don't know it. Oh, in Arlington. That don't sound like Dallas to me. Arlington is actually halfway in between Dallas and Arlington. With Dallas, you know what's so funny? The Cowboys ain't in either. They're not in Arlington or Dallas. They're in Frisco. Well, that's not where they play their games, though. They play their games in Arlington. Yeah. Yeah, that's not Dallas. Wow, that's wild. They practice in Frisco and play in Arlington. Oh, that's wild. Yeah. We gotta start changing some of these names. Yeah, and there's this city called Nashville, and it's the home of Vanderbilt University. It's actually a pretty big city. How did they come up with that name? I don't know. Paul hadn't discovered it yet, but it's on the map.