六四見證人、前《解放軍報》記者江林：鎮壓有預兆 張愛萍曾上書 與其子張勝見證血腥場面 戰場太長 死傷慘重 #六四 #江林 #天安門

Hello, Jiang Lin. Hello, Xiaoran. We are very fortunate to be able to interview Jiang Lin, a former reporter for the People's Liberation Army. Jiang Lin was a witness to the June 4th massacre 35 years ago. Jiang Lin, please tell us about what you witnessed on June 3rd or 4th, 35 years ago. What did you witness? I witnessed a very horrific scene. Before June 3rd, in March, I interviewed Lhasa people. Lhasa was the first time in Chinese history, not just in Chinese history, but in the history since the founding of the Communist Party, that the people were massacred. At that time, as a reporter for the People's Liberation Army, I went to Lhasa. When we went there, the suppression had already ceased. Lhasa was in ruins. There was burning and killing. But during the interview, all the people, including the government, including the People's Committee, which was in charge of the national affairs in Lhasa, supported the suppression. They thought the suppression was useless, especially the Lhasa Public Security Bureau. The director of the Public Security Bureau said, Lhasa is so small, so few people. Our Public Security Bureau can solve this problem completely. He said, you don't have to come at all. Of course, when I heard this, I was very surprised. I said, what's the use of saying this now? The army is here. The reason the army can come is to prove that you are incompetent. You can't solve the problem, so the army came. He said, if you don't believe me, I'll take you to the prison. So I went to the Lhasa Public Security Bureau's prison with him. As soon as I entered the prison, everyone said, Dad, Dad. I was very surprised. I said, why do they call you Dad? He said, I know them all. He said, because I know them all, they call me that. If I didn't know them, would they call me that? It's raining. It's okay. He said, can you believe me now? I said, yes. But unfortunately, this happened. But I interviewed other people, including doctors at the hospital. There were also many people who had been buried in Lhasa for decades. According to Chinese newspapers, people who sacrificed their youth and grandchildren all disagreed with the martial law. They said, if you break the martial law, you will destroy the relationship between us and the Tibetan people. If you open fire and you leave, what should we do? We still have to face them. We used to have a very good relationship. But now, once the martial law is broken, the whole nature has changed. It's like the Han people owe the Tibetan people a debt of blood. So this is the meeting I had when I came back from Lhasa. Not long after I came back, I rushed to Beijing to commemorate Hu Yaobang. At that time, I was also there. Because every time I was on my way home, I had to pass Tiananmen Square. After I passed Tiananmen Square, Hu Yaobang passed away. So many people came to commemorate him. Millions of people came to commemorate him. All the memorial tablets of Tiananmen Square were excavated. There were also people on the road. When I went back to talk to other people, they didn't believe me. They said it was bigger than the memorial tablets of Tiananmen Square in 1976. I said it was bigger than that. I said it was bigger in terms of the number of people and the scale. They said it was a big deal. Everyone thought it was a big deal. Then the student parade began. Of course, the student parade was also to commemorate Hu Yaobang. Did you expect the 4.26 movement to become such a movement? I didn't expect it. We judged that it wasn't a riot. They were just expressing their feelings about Hu Yaobang's death. Hu Yaobang was killed by a lot of people. A lot of people who were in the right-wing, anti-revolutionary, and cultural revolution. They were all killed. So these people are grateful to them. One more thing. We hope that China will open its doors to China We hope that China will open its doors to China a little more. Another thing. The reason why I was able to go to the streets was because of the economic reform. The so-called official islands were held by those in power. They held government resources. These resources were not open to the people. They were actually open to their children. Most people can't enjoy the resources in the hands of the government. So it's called an official island. They are suddenly full. But the people can't get these resources. They can't even see a cent. The students raised the slogan of anti-government and anti-corruption. Yes. So the students raised this slogan in this situation. In fact, it is also a kind of mourning for the Red Moon Gang. Because he advocated this when he was alive. He advocated that the people and officials should be equal. He himself was a very close leader. So this is all in this parade. And what is the most important thing? What we saw at the parade The students are very orderly. Because they are afraid that some lawbreakers will get into the student team and pretend to be a student team to interfere with the purity of the student parade. So they are holding hands all the way. Even though these people in the middle are moving forward But there are security guards next to them. They are all holding hands like this. Then the other outsiders can't get into the student team. Because they also learned the lesson when the Red Moon Gang left the stage in 1986. At that time, there was also a student movement. At that time, it was against liberalization. The Red Moon Gang left the stage in this name. So they are afraid of the current regime. Zhao Ziyang's leadership Then reenact the tragedy of the Red Moon Gang in 1986. So their parade team is very well designed. The organization is also very orderly. During the whole period There was no illegal crime at all. And not only that The slogans they raised Received the support of the entire Beijing citizens Including state agencies and ministries The support of these staff So this scale It should be said that it is a student movement. But in fact, it finally developed into a From Beijing City Including Beijing City, including state agencies Including the People's Liberation Army Some people also participated in this parade. I'll talk about it later. So you were a bystander at the time. You went to see this parade, right? Yes. Because from a reporter's point of view There is no bystander Reporters can observe But I was I just came back from Lhasa. I'm not feeling well. Lhasa is lack of oxygen After coming back, I was drunk. The symptoms are the same. I was powerless. From a place where the air is thin To a place where the air is very saturated I'm not used to it. I've been in that situation all the time. So our newspaper The head of the newspaper said Take a good rest. And it just so happens that Hainan Times I was asked to write a report on Lhasa. In this case, I wrote this at home. There is also a break. But I'm very concerned about this movement. Why didn't I go to the interview? From the military newspaper We have no responsibility to interfere These local activities Because our duty is to report on the military. Of course, I have also reported on local activities. The newspaper must allow you to go. But in general I think the military was in a good state at that time. Because the reform and opening up It's been 1989. It's like the wind of openness. Reflect on the Cultural Revolution And reflect on our system But this kind of depth has already begun. And after the 13th National Congress Zhao Ziyang represented the CPC Central Committee Made a report on the political system reform After this report came out This response is also very big Everyone is thinking about how to In politics Reform our system Including the army The most important thing about the army is What is your duty? Many people were also discussing at that time Whether our army should turn from the party army to the national army Turn into a real national defense army That is to say, this army should not Until now It has always been the Communist Party of China This army It listens to the party, right? Party command gun Is such a system But if we want to develop like a democratic society Then this army should be It serves the country It only obeys the country And its duty is only to defend the country Instead of suppressing the people internally This duty should be very clear We ourselves are actually very clear in our hearts So we didn't report on this student movement But we can say Almost all reporters at that time Very clear in their hearts And the student movement Not very resentful Of course How much do you agree Not necessarily From my own point of view I don't agree very much This student This later development Became hungry again Then for a long time A few months Such a movement I hope they can stop it Because of what I saw Because when I was in Beijing Also witnessed the student movement in 1986 Then how Is to force Hu Yaobang Such a reformist leader Such a situation Actually not good I think At the time of the transition of the country Everyone's protest should be There is a limit That's it The government can reach some That is to compromise Because a lot of problems It can't be solved all at once It can be solved gradually But no matter what I didn't expect Will happen This will happen The People's Liberation Army With very cruel means Tank, machine gun Aimed at these young students And Beijing citizens I didn't expect this But during this period Did such a thing happen At the earliest It should be said What word should I use There is a forecast Once I went back from the dormitory When I went back to my house When passing Tiananmen Square Just in time A few 38th Army The military car full of soldiers At Tiananmen Square Surrounded by students Then these students Very rationally Talking to the soldiers in the car Because at that time it was already announced Announcement of martial law Then they told the soldiers We are peaceful Then you don't Take action on us Saying martial law is not necessary This is the truth And shout the slogan All are soldiers See who can be the enemy of the world It's all very peaceful Such a slogan Then sing some The song of the People's Liberation Army Very peaceful Very peaceful song So when I saw this situation I am actually very For these square These soldiers who were crushed Very sad I think they Why do they accept such an order And then Surrounded like this In fact, although it is very peaceful But it can be seen that these people I have an opinion about them Everyone has an opinion about this I have an opinion about this So at that time I went back to the newspaper I am with Our leader And then mentioned I said, is it a domestic meal? Just ask these The PLA who participated in the rescue mission All changed into armed police clothes Why? I said the armed police Execute this Execute the internal mission The duty of the PLA No duty inside Then we Our function is external No internal Internal is the armed police Doing this thing If we do this thing Just make it In the future If this contradiction continues If it is planned You have no card to play Because I think This is also from From the Lhasa The problem seen Because the Lhasa martial law was used at the time Armed police Then it was the Tibet military zone Then solve this problem Even if you shoot Between them and the people There was a very big conflict You think it's all life and death Such a conflict But the last army After the martial law was lifted Then Solved this problem very peacefully Because the army finally To smooth out This This is the contradiction This is the hook I said you are now You come up, you are the ace You use the army To fight against the people In the future, after this conflict How do you solve it? Who do you rely on to maintain this order? Right? Including Mao Zedong He made such a mess of the Cultural Revolution In the end, he also relied on the army To pacify this matter He said military control He did not have this conflict He is here to manage To pacify this contradiction He is not here to plan this contradiction So this is This is Deng Xiaoping's trick He said he Used the army to control itself This is a very ugly trick So I said at the time Should we write an internal report? And then Recommend the Central Military Commission to consider this issue If you need The army to participate in this matter Let them all change their clothes Change into the army uniform So in this case But No one listened to my Suggestion No one said you should write an internal report Our leader told me Why do you care about this idle matter? Go home and have a good rest That's what he told me I was very angry Because I came back from Lhasa The situation is simply too different I was very sad I was sad for both sides I think this may be In the end, it will arouse this contradiction I can't fix it But did you imagine at that time It's really June 4th June 3rd At 6 a.m. He would really shoot and use tanks To crush these students At that time, I was thinking How to avoid this matter So the first thing I thought This matter of writing an internal report After being denied I was very upset After I went back I went to find Zhang Haiping's son He is the chief of the General Warfare Training Bureau Zhang Sheng I found him Then I told him Can you Tell your father Let these Let the army Don't participate in this The consequences of participating in this Is very serious After I told the military report They They didn't let me write this internal report That is to say They didn't The Central Military Commission has already made This This instruction We We are powerless But these These old generals Old soldiers Do they still have their prestige? Can they Stop this matter? So Do you have any personal relations with Zhang Sheng? Because before this I participated in A war exercise This war exercise was organized by Zhang Sheng's department The whole The whole director And planning It was organized by their department A big war exercise It's a cross-military exercise Such a long time So in this very long In the course of this exercise I am very familiar with them And in the process I also posted a lot of reports So these reports also make them The reporter who came with us It's hard to do this I have a good feeling about them So Established this Relationship Yes, so At this time I went to find him I said can you That Talk to your father Let him Be able to stop Don't plan this thing Then if the army If you have to intervene Can you Change a way Don't face it directly Face this The people A few days later Then he called me He said Jiang Lin My father and then there are Seven The other seven generals And then jointly Wrote a letter to the Central Committee And then that letter is very simple That is to say we are some Old soldiers Then we suggest People's Liberation Army Don't inherit Don't shoot at the people To quit This is As much as possible Because the People's Liberation Army is the people's Subordinate soldiers Then just a few words But it explains the nature of the army Explain the army This method Then at this time This attitude should be taken It all shows Then they have seven generals This is a very famous Seven generals This coalition Including Zhang Aiping Zhang Aiping is the first This This letter The letter of the seven generals Was drafted by Zhang Sheng After he finished drafting Then go to find other Seven generals Go to their house and ask them Ask them to sign Because at that time these people retired Retired, no longer in position But the mobilized These troops Many of them were their Created troops They are all creators So they are all The first chief So these troops It is the army that pays special attention to this inheritance For example, who is my first general? Who Who created our army back then? And Take them to win battles Then always include Establish the so-called new China Such So their planning is very top-notch Then the prestige in the army Although they retired They left the army But their prestige Still very high This can't be erased at all So this letter Let these people Let Deng Xiaoping and the leaders at the time Very, very scared Just always Just don't say this letter There is no such letter When was this letter Delivered to Deng Xiaoping? Just At the time of resignation Then This can be checked on the Internet You check General Qi's letter He has time and people General Qi's name He can find this It was like this Then I At that time I was still Still sick Just keep coughing From below After coming over I wrote such a long article The article of resignation It means that I did not Have a good rest And treatment Later He told me on the phone I just I wrote it down Because it's very simple Two sentences Then I put this letter Call me A deputy editor of the People's Daily He happens to be the People's Daily One of the seven One of the seven editors The daily schedule of the People's Daily It was decided by these seven people They are going to hold a editorial meeting Then decide what to write today He said This is too timely He said we will immediately Keep the cover Fight for the first edition He said this will definitely produce Very big response Because everyone is from After the resignation order came down Everyone is from all aspects That is Work hard in all aspects How to resolve this contradiction Don't hurt the students in this square Especially Even after they return to school Don't hold them accountable Such I want to put this matter Should be fully considered The kindness of these students You can't ask These young students They are not wrong at all But you can't use Such an extreme way To deal with these people They are the future of the country What will your country look like in the future It's up to them Instead of relying on us These people who are already old So these people It was very clear at the time So do this work in all aspects Is to resolve this Resolve this contradiction Because at the time, the resignation itself It has already intensified this The second intensification of this contradiction The first time was the 426 forum, right? After this forum came out More and more people How much more people The whole party, government, military and institutional All took to the streets To this extent When you don't calm down Then came more I want to resign Right? What is the result of resigning? Will these troops go up? Because there are a lot of troops From the perspective of the military report We know 15 groups of troops surround Beijing Is it necessary? Right? Just a few students What are you doing with so many troops? 200,000 Yes, 200,000 troops Is it necessary? Just a few thousands of students Let me say something At the time of the liberation of Beijing Right? When the Liberation Army surrounded Beijing There were not so many troops At the time What was Fu Zuoyi's attitude? Fu Zuoyi was peaceful He took a peaceful attitude I surrender I surrender to the Liberation Army You don't go into the city Don't bomb Don't destroy the ancient city The ancient city of Beiping As the garrison I surrender to you Right? He had such a peaceful attitude Very good Then let Beijing Nothing Fu Zuoyi surrendered Peaceful liberation So this is It's worth it At that time The army should take advantage of this Right? You have already taken power It's all yours The court, the public security law, it's all yours What are you afraid of those students? They have nothing They really have nothing Why are you doing this? And they are some young students The older ones are only 22 years old Graduated from college At that time, college was four years Entering college at the age of 18 Graduated at the age of 22 after four years They are all so young Students So after this I later found out Zhang Anping didn't Join forces with the seven generals Why did he join forces? There is also a reason Before this He once wrote a letter This letter is relatively long He wrote it himself In his own name To the Central Military Commission The letter he wrote to the Central Committee Suggested that the Party Central Committee Send people to the scene Negotiate with the students Say we are all students We go over We all come from students Why can't we Sit down and talk to them What's the matter What do they want We can talk to them So at that time There were tens of thousands of students Tens of thousands of students At Tiananmen There were several representatives kneeling Kneeling to ask To talk to us To accept our request They have several One, two, three, four Requests All very peaceful Why can't we really Walk among them And communicate with them He personally wrote A very long letter I later read The handwritten manuscript Of this letter About a thousand words He wrote it himself Through the Central Committee It was sent to them No one cared about them No one cared It was sent before the ban Yes, yes It had no effect So I later But I didn't know I later saw the 38th Army Several military vehicles Surrounded at Tiananmen After I found Zhang Sheng And asked Zhang Sheng For this request Their letter was a joint letter But All of it Was a mess All of it was a mess But before the ban This letter General Qi's letter Zhang Haiping's letter It was It was just When I said it In 1919 Before the ban No one knew So this was a Very tough process It's not that These people didn't do anything It's that These old soldiers And the army The army's These senior officials Were all watching this And let it develop Everyone did their best So I hope To use this effort To put an end to this This situation This is Let's Let's recall Sorry I want to ask Jiang Lin to recall On June 3rd You were interviewed Between you and Zhang Sheng There were four of you You witnessed The people's young soldiers Shooting at the people Tell us about What happened I think This is also because All of my witnesses Were on my way Back home I passed Tiananmen and saw On June 3rd It was Sunday Yes, it was Sunday I was on my way home In the afternoon I left in the morning Because at that time Beijing was under curfew Until that day All public transportation stopped My way home Was very long I had to go west Before I joined the People's Liberation Army I was working for the People's Liberation Army I lived in the dormitory of the People's Liberation Army I had to go west From the dormitory of the People's Liberation Army To the dormitory of the People's Liberation Army My daughter was there She was only 9 years old She was in the 3rd grade I went back every week To visit her This route was very long I had to pass Tiananmen And continue north When I got out There was no car I had to walk When I got to the Military Museum I couldn't walk anymore It was noon My colleagues from the People's Liberation Army Were there At the Jinxi Hotel Opposite the Military Museum I wrote The 40th anniversary The script of the TV series They were there To do this So I went to their place to rest And had a meal At that time After they let me go to Tiananmen At that time I felt A lot less people Because it was Saturday Most of the students came from other places Most of the students From Beijing Went back to school Because they were in the square for a long time They had to change their clothes They had to wash their books They had to contact the students At the school They had to take a break That was the situation But the square was still very active Many people were distributing flyers Because at that time There were no communication tools No phone But there were a lot of flyers Red and green The square was full of them You can pick it up I picked up some Then I continued to go north It was getting dark I haven't gone home yet But I went to Zhang Sheng's hotel They had their business It was right in the middle of Tian'anmen And so I wanted to go to their place And I wanted to go to their place Show him the flyers I had And show him the flyers I had To see what the Tian'anmen was like Through the letter We were indirectly involved In this event Although we were not directly involved It's not the whole incident, but we are all concerned about the development of this situation. It's going to rain soon, so we changed to another place. Please continue to introduce to us that on June 3rd, you went to Zhang Sheng's house and showed him the flyer. Please continue. When I went to Zhang Sheng's house, they had just finished dinner. I briefly told them about the situation. They said, you were covered in sweat. They said, have a meal at our house and take a shower. Then we will send you home. They happened to have a car. They said, you don't have to work so hard. I said, after dinner, he called me. He picked up the phone and came out. He told me, it's broken. They shot. I said, what? He told me, his subordinates, they were in the western part, in Wukesong. They witnessed the shooting. He said, we, he said, it looks like the situation has escalated. I said, I have to go to Tiananmen Square. He said, it's too dangerous. I said, I'm a reporter. I said, I have to go. Can you lend me a bike? He said, if that's what you want, I'll go with you. His son was studying. He was preparing for college. He said, he had to go too. His wife said, all three of us have to go. He said, I'll go too. The four of us, one bike per person. We set off. We thought, we were in the western part. At that time, would the car have arrived at Tiananmen Square? We thought, we'd go to Tiananmen Square first. That's what we thought. On the way to Tiananmen Square, when we got to the western part, we couldn't get through. It was all Beijing citizens. They blocked the road. To what extent? It was like a wall. It wasn't just one row. There was only one row of people. Tiananmen Square is very wide. Right? Is it eight lanes now, or six lanes? Eight lanes, I think. Tiananmen Square is very wide. There were a lot of people. They blocked the road. On the other side, there was a group of police officers. They shot tear gas at such a large group of people. That was the first time we saw that. You've been a soldier for decades, and you've never seen that. I've never experienced tear gas. Police officers? Public security officers? I think so. We didn't see the soldiers at the time. No police officers? No. They were probably armed police officers. Okay. They were shooting tear gas. When the tear gas exploded, we couldn't see anything. It was all tears. It was very powerful. You were like that too? Yes. I cried. Then the crowd dispersed. You couldn't continue to stand on the road. It all dispersed. After the dispersal, the police took advantage of the effect and moved forward. When the people saw that, they wiped their tears and re-gathered. Then the police pushed them over there. The crowd kept getting bigger. The police couldn't get any closer. That's how it was. When the crowd got bigger, we realized that we couldn't get any closer. Because there weren't many people. If there were, I had my passport with me. If you had a passport, like Zhang Sheng's, we would have been able to get through. But we couldn't. We couldn't get through. We didn't see the army at that time. We didn't believe it. Even though his subordinates were outstanding people. I can't tell you his name now. But we still didn't believe it. We had to witness it. To see if it was true. We took another road. There was a parallel road We took that road. We took the north road. When we got to the bridge, it was already full of fire. There were a lot of soldiers on the bridge. There were a lot of people on this side of the bridge. There were a lot of people on the other side. There were a lot of cars on the middle of the bridge. The road was set up by the people. It was a road that didn't allow military vehicles to pass. But the bridge... I'm sorry. The people were shouting, Wait a minute. I have to answer this question. Let's start again. Can you tell us what happened on the Lijiao Bridge? There was a lot of fire on the bridge. The people set up military vehicles to block the road. Who lit the fire? The people lit the fire. Because they wanted to block the road. They wanted to block the road. It's the same as what I saw in front of me. It's a very long bridge. It's a 10-mile-long bridge. What's the name of this bridge? It's the Muxidi Bridge. It's a bridge that crosses all four sides. So there were a lot of people living nearby. The soldiers on the Lijiao Bridge shot at the soldiers under the Lijiao Bridge. We saw it coming, so we had to run. There were injured citizens. We saw it coming, so we had to run. 雪星了吗就是呃那你看到雪了吗那个你就看到那个受伤的那些人 但是天很黑然后那个你看看的不是很清楚然后我就想接近这个 接近这个军车就想知道这个到底是哪个部队哪个部队的军车现在 在这个桥上所以呢就是因为你不能这样走过去吧你这样走过去的话 非常危险会被那个枪打中因为当时都穿的我们全都穿的便衣 这样的因为星期天嘛星期六就不要求那个军人士 要穿穿军装的这样的然后我们就穿着便衣 然后你那个就不能走呢就匍匐往前走就匍匐前进就这样的趴在地上 然后试图接近这个这个桥然后能接近这个这个军车因为你 我有记者证嘛我是可以有权利对他们进行进行访问的 然后呢那个那个什么呃但是呢接近不了那个那个那个就是这个 这些燃烧的公共汽车呀那个火烤的我的脸都快那个特别疼这样的 然后呢但是这个时候呢就是看到了什么呢看到这个军车开始动了 原来这个军车是停在这个桥上的然后这些老百姓喊打倒法西斯 然后这边就快啊就一通那个机枪的扫射就过来就那一通就这样 这边一喊然后又是冲着这个人群又是这样的一说这个机枪这个扫射 所以呢那个但是这个时候已经看到这个这个车在 开进的非常那个非常慢就是慢慢的在在动那那凭着我们这个军人的经验 就是说从这个立交桥通向天安门的通路已经打通了 就当时的那些那我们看到那些就是在那个西单西单路口的那个情况 还有在这个那就是真的是这个会杀到什么程度就开枪开到什么 最后伤亡到什么程度真的是不敢想象了就那个时候特别是就想到 那个我就想到中中午我路过这天安门的时候就那些那些那些学生 他们会怎么样了所以呢就想到那去目睹一下那个那个情况 然后我们就就想原道返回然后就直接直奔天安门就从后面 直接直奔天安门因为天安门那个后面它这样是故宫嘛故宫然后中间呢有个五门 那个五门呢是通着的它有东西华门这边西华门这边东华门都是平常都是那个就是 都是就是open的就是都是开放的 所以呢我们就从了那个西华门但是我们这一路过来的时候 就看到更多的就是下来的这个被打打伤的这些这些这些老百姓 然后这些人一路就喊说的那个 打到法医师说的明天要罢工要罢课说那个谁谁要上班就是那个就绝绝不去那个上班 去给他们卖命那样就路上就是听到这样的不停的这种口号然后就是跟着都是都是就是 就受伤的这些被救下来的这些这些老百姓了然后而且呢就是听到天安门的枪声就 不停的在想 我们从西从西华门已经能听到天安门那边的枪声了对 就是就这一路的枪声一路因为这个这个军人这样这军车开开进过来吗就一路的这个枪声 但是到了这个但是我们路上的时候真的我就开始流眼泪特别伤心因为我就我就觉得这个 怎么会这样 你从当兵的那天开始因为我我们家都是军人吗那样的就从小的那个教育 都告诉我们这个我们是人民的子弟兵对吧都子弟兵还不是说人民的军队 什么叫子弟兵啊我们是人民生我们的我们是他们生我们来保卫他们的这个军队 你怎么会今天你会调转枪口向老百姓开枪而且他们手无寸铁能能给他们开枪 这接受不了这个现实啊所以我一路走就一路哭 我就在就那个自行车那样的就一直在在掉眼泪然后到了那个从西华门进来的时候 进来的时候然后就这天安门的枪声是最密集的 密集到什么程度啊就是你你可以用这个就是过节的那个鞭炮 礼花那个鞭炮来来来来来来形容就是他就是 就是此起彼伏的这个这个各种的那个 枪的这个这个声音都都在那个天安门而且呢从天安门那个门洞啊 门洞那样看吧就是一片火光 然后能够看到那个士兵的钢盔 就就是你看这一个一个的这样的门洞吗天门那个有有四个还是五个这样的门的五个好像是这样的门洞然后 这个门洞全部都是火然后你透过火 透过火他是在黑天吧他火是那个黄色的然后呢能看到士兵的就是钢盔的这个剪影 在这个这个在这里面那那个 就说明天安门整个被 被军队包围了就是已经全部占领了天安门然后这个就火光四射那个 枪声那个大作就这样的所以那时候袁木说那个天安门对很严重啊就是说 天说天安门没死一个人就是胡说八道嘛 就现场就是这样的一个 一个一个情况啊就是根据你目睹的这个情况你估计一下就是那天晚上大概死了多少人估计一下 就那种密集的枪声的话那个不是我我当时是没没办法那个那个就是那个估计吗 然后因为你你还你看到的只是因为我说我们所有的人就算那天所有人的目击者 那个你只看到的是一个局部 因为他这个战场太长了你想他从西边开车过来 然后那个这一路就都有那个老百姓在阻拦 那那个都是用那个都是用枪来解决的 那你说死了多少人就你真的是不好估计啊但是呢直到我到了医院以后 然后那个我被打伤以后送到医院以后我才发现这个事情的这个严重到什么程度