吳文昕： 許家印供出銀行高管 涉案金額驚人 #信燕訪談

Hello everyone, welcome to this interview. I am Lily, Zhang Shunye. Our guest today is Mr. Wu Wenyin, an international human rights lawyer and Chinese issues expert. Mr. Wu, hello. Hello Lily, hello everyone. Recently, on the Chinese social media, it is rumored that Hui Jiayin has been arrested. There are a lot of banks in Hong Kong that have announced that they will be listed as Hengda Bank. What impact does this have on the economy? After Hui Jiayin was arrested, the netizens in mainland China are very concerned. They are concerned about why so many banks have been arrested. They are also high-ranking banks. What impact does this have on the economy? The real reason, we can only guess. Because the Communist Party, everyone knows that the Communist Party has to keep everything secret, right? It does a lot of things that are not visible to the public. It does a lot of evil things that are not visible to the public. Everything is a black box. I think Hui Jiayin is definitely corrupt. Because everyone knows that in mainland China, a company as big as Hengda Bank, if you don't participate in this official-business conflict, it is simply impossible. This is the very sad fate of the Chinese businessmen. First, if you want to be rich, if you want to be successful, you have to collude with other officials. But the problem is, you have to collude with the right people. If you collude with the wrong officials, you will be in big trouble. So, is it because Hui Jiayin's boss at the back of the company elected the wrong person? I'm not sure. This is also possible. This is the view of the Communist Party. You are now reforming and opening up. Everyone can be at ease. You can do business and make a fortune. And they keep saying that you have to be clean, you can't be corrupt, etc. At the same time, the whole system, because it is a one-party dictatorship, if you don't have a party official at your back, you can't be successful at all. So, how do you make a party official your backer? Because the Communist Party has completely destroyed the traditional Chinese culture. The good people that the ancients talked about, rich but not rich, poor but not poor, powerful but not powerful, you can't even find them with a magnifying glass. Of course, there are still some, but very few. So, on the one hand, legally, they don't allow you to be corrupt. Legally, it stipulates that you are guilty of corruption. At the same time, there is a system that if you are not corrupt, you can't do business at all. And when you are corrupt, when you kidnap an official, no one will stop you. Even if they know, they won't stop you. Even if they know, they will pretend not to stop you. Why? Because everyone does this, how can you stop it? You have to fight against yourself. But what is the advantage? This system, this situation will form a phrase that everyone often says, no official is corrupt. Well, you, Hu Jiayin, are no exception. Of course, you have to fight against those you think are very powerful party officials. Of course, every time the party officials help you get it done, this is allowed, that is allowed, what, what, oh, I don't know, every time you have a government official and a signature, I agree with you, every time the signature is worth a lot of money. Millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars, once you sign it, it's tens of millions of dollars. OK, if you are the boss behind the scenes, you are indeed a strong party. But everyone knows, the Communist Party has always been like this, from its establishment to now, the internal struggle will never stop. It's not this party fighting that party, it's that party fighting this party. It's always been like this. For example, you, Hu Jiayin, you once stood up in the era of Jiang Zemin, of course, you have to fight against Jiang Zemin's people. For example, you fight against Chen Qihong, that's it, if Chen Qihong, for example, I don't know who he is fighting against. But the problem is, the person you are fighting against, it's very likely that he is not a strong party. Just like now, after Xi Jinping came to power, Xi Jinping is very eye-catching. The powerful people have made a lot of money. If your background is from the powerful, then you are dead. Suddenly, you used to be a very great national capitalist, civil entrepreneur, for the country's wealth, created a lot of wealth, for the country's wealth, and so on, it's very easy to say. Now it's not like that, now they say you are a gang, collusion, collusion with an official. Suddenly, it's very likely that this is the case. So now he is in trouble. Why did his Hengdai go bankrupt? Actually, I think he went bankrupt because he has been cheating people all the time. Their way of doing business is definitely not an honest way of doing business. In order to successfully build a lot of houses, he will borrow money from banks. How can he borrow money? He went bankrupt because he cheated the banks. Sometimes, these big projects, it's not just the banks that say it's okay. Sometimes, even government officials have to approve it. In fact, in China, big banks, those high-level banks, they are all part of the Communist Party. Some things, for example, if you have a piece of land, you see a certain place, you see a center, a large-scale project, in addition to borrowing money, you have to get the approval of the local government. You have to pay a lot of money. The banks, because the banks have given you a loan, they shouldn't have lent you so much money. You may not be able to pay it back. It doesn't matter. It's the same every time. Because if I don't lend it to you, I don't have the money to collect it. Your loan will not come true. So, there are a lot of loans. This is the so-called long-term development of China's GDP. Everyone has to borrow money. It's like a person, not relying on his own hard work to earn money, and to rush to buy things, to buy a house, but relying on borrowing money. Because you have a good mouth, because you are very good at deceiving people. It's a long story. You borrow money from everywhere. You buy a big house, a big car, everything. You buy the most beautiful suit. A suit costs 2,000 US dollars. A lot of people live like this. If it's cold, you go out to the restaurant to have a meal. Four people have a meal. You pay 1,000 dollars. If a person can borrow a lot of money to form a very successful image, think about it. Is it possible for you to pay back the money? It's impossible. Because you may not be successful. Now, the entire economy in mainland China, in the past few decades, everyone has been borrowing money. But you have to pay back all your loans. You start to pay interest, and then you have to pay it back. When you can't pay it back, what can you do? You can go to another house. Ha! Deal with it. You can pay it back, and you can borrow money again. New debt is equal to old debt. The whole country is doing this kind of thing. So, if you don't move, the real business will be a little down. If you stop, you will be miserable. You won't have enough money to pay off your debts. You will face bankruptcy. This is the situation in Hengdai. It doesn't exist at all. In addition, a lot of money is stored in a bag. Do you know where Hengdai's money comes from? It's also from the people. It's from the leeks. Why does Hengdai have so much money? Because it has so many houses. It's not just because it has so many houses. It's because so many people are willing to buy houses. Who buys houses? Ordinary people, middle-class people, or middle-class people. They buy a house, so they have to pay money. They have to pay the dowry, how much do they have to pay first? How much do they have to pay every month? That money should have been given to a normal company. You should manage your money well. You can continue to invest to expand your business. The other part is to give it to your employees, etc. A normal company is like this. But now it's not like that. Now a lot of money has become black money. It's used to bribe officials. Officials' appetite is getting bigger and bigger. It's true. For example, 25 years ago, a mayor, a mayor of a middle-class city, helped you get a project done. Maybe he received some money from the people. He was very happy to receive 1 million yuan. 1 million yuan is enough. Now, the project is a big project. 100 million yuan, he said you should look down on him. You'd better give me 10 million yuan. So the money has gone to these places. This money won't pay back to society. Especially in China, those corrupt officials, after receiving some black money, where will they put it? They won't just put the money back in China. A small part of it will go to Erlai and Samlai. But more importantly, most of it will go to foreign countries, such as Switzerland, the United States, Singapore, etc. And they will send their children and wives to emigrate there. They need money to get there. There are a lot of young students in the U.S. I've seen them with my own eyes. They are young, about 20 years old. Because their parents are high-ranking officials or rich people. When they go to the U.S. to study, they are actually on the run. What kind of car do they drive? They drive an Italian sports car, a Ferrari. It's not a Ferrari in Chinese, is it? Ferrari, it's one of the most… Ferrari. What? Ferrari. In fact, there was a Chinese student, a few years ago in Chicago, he drove a Ferrari. He even hit someone. He hit a woman. The woman was still crossing the road. She was still in the middle of the road. So it was a big crime. When the court was held, the judge didn't say anything. He just asked the young man if he would plead guilty. What did the young man say? He said, Oh, let's not waste time. You go on a business trip. How much? I'll pay you $2 million. Is that okay? $1 million, $1 million. Or if it doesn't work, $3 million. My father has money. Wow, the judge was scared to death. It's not a joke. It's true. After the Communist Party ruled for more than 70 years, it's like this young man. He's seen his parents do this since he was a kid. If there's a problem, they'll give you money. Anything can be sold. So he doesn't understand that the United States is not China. No wonder he thinks anything can be sold with money. Moral corruption. Very corrupt, very corrupt. The former director of the bank at the port was hired by Hu Jiayin. What's the name of the former director? It's called Liu Yunhe. It's called Chen Xinmin. Liu Yunhe was the former director of the Chinese bank. He was also hired by Hu Jiayin. Chen Xinmin was in charge of the bank at the port. He took the power in his hands to pay the mortgage to Hengda and other real estate companies. He also collected the payment of the mortgage. Including the former director of the Chinese bank, Liu Yunhe. He was also like that. The amount of money he collected was so big that it was very scary. Among the people Hu Jiayin handed over, there was also the former director of the Chinese bank. That's the one I just mentioned. On December 16 last year, the official announced that the former director of the Chinese bank, Liu Yunhe, was officially arrested for committing bribery and illegal issuance of mortgages. This is very simple. Why are there so many senior officials recently, especially big entrepreneurs, being arrested? I think the main reason is that the Communist Party no longer has that much money in its hands. Why is that? First, the Chinese economy has been declining for several years. They are just covering it up. Now they can't cover it up. They can't help but cover it up. If it's that bad, how can they cover it up? If it's that bad, the Communist Party no longer has that much money in its hands, what will they do? They will open fire. What will they do? They know that they have been indulging in corruption for a long time. They will take back the money. It's that simple. Unless, unless, this official, this senior official, is a member of the Xi Jinping Party, then it's a different story. So, the Communist Party, as I said, doing big business in mainland China is not that simple. You have to, you have to, you have to be able to handle a high-ranking official. It's not enough, you have to, don't, don't, when there is a party-wide struggle, you, you, you go, rely on, rely on, not rely on whom, but choose the wrong side, then you will be in trouble. For example, Xi Jinping wants to go against the江派. Your boss is from the江派. Then you have to go against him. If his family, his family, if his boss is a family member of Xi Jinping, Xi Jinping's daughter is his family, or Xi Jinping's wife is his family, or even Xi Jinping's mother is his family, then there will be no problem, there will be no problem. So, this is the tragedy of China, the tragedy of China. So, you said, so I said, China will never, that's why I keep saying, the CCP's way of doing things will never become a real world power. It's impossible. Yes, just now, Liu, the former minister, was sued for issuing a loan. According to this accusation, he is in charge of China's Export Bank, China's Bank of China, and the Board of Directors, and other business conveniences. He used this convenience during this period to cooperate with relevant units and individuals in finance, projects, personnel arrangements, and other areas to provide assistance in illegally acquiring other people's property. The amount is particularly large, and caused a particularly serious loss. And he was sued for issuing a loan, and so on. He is being held accountable. According to media reports, Liu Liankang and the amount of illegal loans that were issued to Hengda was so large that it was very shocking. How large was the amount? To this day, it has not been fully calculated. You can imagine how large the amount is. It has been calculated for such a long time, but it has not been fully calculated. There is no way to imagine how large the amount is. There are a lot of Chinese officials. They can't even afford to buy a house, or to deposit cash. They can't even afford to buy a building. It's so large. They have to use a car to get around. No matter how long it takes, it's not clear how much money was embezzled. That's right. As I said earlier, the number of embezzlers is increasing. There is no way to imagine. Yes. For example, in the late 1990s, I heard people say that basic construction projects or other large investment projects usually kept 1%. Everyone knows that if it is a basic construction project, the cost of the entire project may be 1 billion U.S. dollars. 1 billion U.S. dollars. If a senior official can get 1% at that time, he will be very satisfied. 1% means 1 million U.S. dollars. At that time, he was very satisfied. Now it's not enough. Now it's 3%. 3%, right? It's very surprising. Originally, the CCP's embezzlement law was very special. Because many countries have some embezzlement, but it is a small amount of embezzlement. It won't affect the entire economy too much. Now China is not like that. Think about it. I always say that CCP propaganda how the economy has been developing for the past 30 years. 30 years ago, China accounted for 5% of the world's GDP. Now it should be 18%. I think it's true. Now it's 18%. In other words, in the past 30 years, China has created a lot of new wealth. Some of the wealth may have been spent on food, housing, etc. But there should still be a lot of wealth. Where is the wealth? Why now? All the money is gone. It turned out to be all in the CCP's corruption. Why are so many old people unemployed? No job. They are suffering from poverty again. The government has no money. Or they say they have no money. But every time the corrupt officials are arrested, countless people are executed. This is the actual situation of the Chinese economy. A lot of money has gone there. The capital of the Hengdai investment is HK$3.9 billion. The debt is HK$20,000 billion. The controversy is that without the help of many banks and related departments, without the help of these corrupt officials, how can Hui Jiayin make so much money? If there were too many banks, it wouldn't have led to so many unfinished buildings. Yes, that's right. The entire CCP system is too corrupt. Not only corrupt, but also corrupt. Speaking of which, I think of the death of Li Qi recently, the Chao An Ge. Now he is dead because he was drunk. But he used to be one of the Chinese banks' directors. His responsibility was to approve foreign loans. As far as I remember, Hengdai has a big branch in the US. Zhao An Ge helped Hengdai approve loans from Chinese banks. I remember it was the largest loan of US$1 billion. It's really hard to talk about the sudden death of Li Qi. I still don't think it was just because he was drunk. Yes, his death is very suspicious. It is said that among the people hired by Hui Jiayin, there are Chinese bank executives, office managers, many vice-chairs, and a large number of executives of Guangda Bank. Sun Deshun, the former director of Zhongshun Bank, Tian Wei, the former director of Zhaoxiang Bank, etc. A large number of corrupt officials, like Lai Teng, have been pulled out. That's why I think it's strange. Why are the Chinese people so patient? Because in the past, For example, more than 10 years ago, Our so-called anti-communists have long been criticizing the seriousness of the corruption of the Communist Party. The situation of being unabashedly corrupt. At that time, many Chinese people didn't believe us, because they thought we were anti-communists. But now, the Communist Party says itself. Since Xi Jinping took office, many big and small tigers have been arrested. Everyone is a corrupt official. Everyone is counting on billions of dollars. But the Chinese people are very patient. I hope they dare to work and dare not speak. They can't make a sound. Even if they say it, there is no chance to say it. Who can they tell? Tell the Communist Party. The Communist Party has already arrested them and put them in prison. Even if they speak out, there is no chance to say it. Therefore, we often speak up for them. Yes. But what I mean is, now the Communist Party's own media has announced how many corrupt officials have been arrested. They shouldn't be afraid to talk about this. But the problem is, I think the Communist Party won't let you do it. For example, the Communist Party's chief executive, Liu Xixi, has arrested many people. If you say so, the common people won't be afraid. What is he most afraid of? He is most afraid that if you tell people that the Communist Party is responsible for all crimes, it is because of this system. Because of the one-party dictatorship, there is no supervision, no democratic supervision, that's why it's so serious. He is most afraid that if people say this, he will die. The Communist Party is like this now. You have to blame someone for all these crimes. It's never the fault of the Communist Party. It's never the fault of the system. Yes. Sun Deshun, a former employee of Zhongshun Bank, was sentenced to death on November 10 last year. Sun Deshun was sentenced to death and was sentenced to two years in prison. The judge said that Sun Deshun used the position of the vice president of Zhongshun Bank, Beijing Branch of the Bank of China, and the position of the vice president of Zhongshun Bank, Beijing Branch of the Bank of China, and the position of the vice president of Zhongshun Bank, Beijing Branch of the Bank of China, to help companies obtain loans and other matters. The illegal sale of goods and people's money is more than 9.7 billion yuan. Tian Weiyu, the former party secretary of Zhaoxiang Bank of China, was sentenced to 2.1 billion yuan. He was sentenced to death on February 5 this year. He was sentenced to two years in prison. There are many more. So many corrupt officials have been exposed by Hui Jiayin. That's why he was arrested. After Hui Jiayin, the CCP has always been like this. The CCP has no difference from the gangsters. The CCP has no difference from the gangsters. They don't care about the law at all. The Chinese law certainly stipulates that you can't force people to work. But the CCP doesn't care. After arresting Hui Jiayin, they even tortured him. It's like how they tortured Chun Kang. They want Chun Kang to force other people to work. It's the same. It's the way of the gangsters. It's very inhumane. Western democracies don't allow this. They don't allow forcing people to work. That's why the CCP is like this. But everyone needs to understand Don't fall for it. The CCP is quite good. They beat up the big shots, they make a lot of money, but it's useless. It's completely useless. The reason why people are corrupt is because their morality is corrupt. Do you think that if you sentence them to death, their morality will improve? No such thing. Including this person himself. If he is sentenced to death, he will not kill anyone in the end. If he is sentenced to death, he will not kill anyone in the end. Because in two years, people will forget this matter. Then, they will change it into a brand new picture, or change it into a 30-year picture, It's a type of thing. A country, a nation's morality is not based on death. If you want Chinese people to have high morality again, the simplest way is to revive Chinese traditional culture. Because Chinese traditional culture... What is Chinese traditional culture? In fact, it is the culture of the Buddha, the Tao and the Three Realms. The Three Realms' ideology. Whether you are a Buddhist, a Taoist or a Confucian, you all value morality. You all respect God. When most people respect God, the country will not be so corrupt. People will not be so easily corrupt. It's that simple. It's useless to rely on death. Even those who are sentenced to death will not necessarily change the rules of the world. For example, if a president is sentenced to death, will he really change the rules of the world? Will he really regret it? Will he regret not doing it? Will he regret not being punished? He won't think like that. What will he think? He will say, I should have changed my horse earlier. I should have been more upright. For example, if a high-ranking official does not belong to Xi Jinping's faction, I should have changed my horse earlier. If I were a high-ranking official of Xi Jinping, I would have lost everything. That's it. So, this kind of system will not improve morality. Yes, that's right. That's very true. On January 29th this year, the Hong Kong Supreme Court issued an appeal to Hengda demanding that Hengda pay off the debt of the debtors with electricity and property. But Hengda's debt is like a huge snow mountain. It's really huge. So, I believe that Hengda can't pay off the debt with any compensation. So, there's no need to think about it. That's it. In addition, a lot of property belongs to Hengda, including unfinished buildings, may still be worth a little money. Most of it comes from the mainland. It's not necessarily that the mainland's judicial system will accept Hong Kong's decision to help. Not necessarily. So, it's better than nothing. You are right. Hengda is indebted, but the property is very limited. The property belongs to Hengda is very limited. It's indebted, of course. But, in theory, if the mainland agrees, all the debtors can get a little money. Or, if they owe you 10 million, you can give them a part of the money. For example, you are a debtor with 10 million. In the end, you split the property with Hengda. What do you get? 500,000. Do you understand? If you can't get back 10 million, you can only get 500,000. Now, 500,000 has been frozen. Maybe you can't get it back. Maybe you can't get it back at all. According to the media, the number of Hengda's properties in the South China Sea shows that Hengda's properties are all over the country. The number has reached 1.62 million. It involves 6 million debtors. Such a big debt can't be repaid. So, today… Definitely. Yes, OK. That's all for today. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Mr. Wu. See you next time. Bye-bye.