LIVE: House Energy Committee's Markup on Bills Against Adversary-Controlled Apps 2024-03-07 20:06

the committee will come to order the chair recognizes herself for an opening statement good afternoon everyone and welcome to today's markup of two important pieces of legislation earlier today we heard from members of the intelligence Community about the dangers posed by applications like Tik Tok that are controlled by Foreign adversaries and who are determined to exploit and weaponize Americans data we also witness firsthand in real time how the Chinese Communist Party can weaponize platforms like Tik Tok to manipulate the American people this morning prior to our hearing Tik Tok used its influence and power to force users to contact their representatives if they wanted to continue using Tik Tok this is just a small taste of how the CCP weaponizes applications it controls to manipulate tens of millions of of people to further their agenda these applications present a clear national security threat to the United States and necessitate the decisive action we will take today first we will consider HR 7521 the protecting Americans from foreign adversary controlled applications act which will prohibit applications that are controlled by our foreign adversaries and pose a clear National Security risk if control is not devest divested we will also consider HR 7520 the protecting Americans data from foreign foreign adversaries Act of 2024 led by ranking member Frank palone which will prevent data Brokers from sharing American sensitive information with foreign adversaries foreign adversaries like the Chinese Communist Party POS the greatest national security threat of our time our adversaries are working actively to undermine Americans Global Leadership at its core HR 7521 is about banning foreign ad ADV Aries such as China from targeting surveilling and manipulating the American people through apps like Tick Tock the bill takes a two-pronged approach first it requires bite dance to divest tick to and other applications it controls within 180 days after enactment of the bill or those apps will be prohibited in the United States second the bill creates a narrow process to allow the executive branch to prohibit access to an app that is owned by a foreign adversary if it poses a threat to National Security this is not a blank check for the Biden Administration or future administrations to ban whatever apps they want the executive agencies including the national security agencies and the committee on foreign investment in the United States cfus must agree that a foreign ad an adversary controlled app poses a threat to National Security the threat to National Security must be well documented the public must be notified and the information must be presented to Congress at which point the con the president may make a determination that a foreign adversary controlled application must be divested or face Prohibition in the United States this prohibition can only be applied to Applications controlled by a foreign adversary which the bill defines as China Russia Iran and North Korea in all of these cases there is an option for divestment to occur if B dance divest Tik Tock meaning the Chinese Communist party is no longer controlling the app Tik Tock can uh can continue to operate in the United States CCP controll Tick Tock has claimed this bill is an outright ban it is not we have given Tick Tock a Clear Choice divest from your parent company which is beholden to the Chinese Communist party and remain operational in the United States or side with the Chinese Communist party and face a ban the choice is theirs today we will also be considering HR 7520 the protecting Americans data from foreign adversaries Act of 2024 data Brokers collect a stunning amount of sensitive information and data on Americans from people's physical and mental health to when and where they're traveling once collected this sensitive information is sold to the highest bidder including foreign adversaries like China I appreciate the work of ranking member palone on this legislation and his leadership that will prevent data Brokers from sharing America's sensitive information with foreign adversaries and the companies they control this is an important compliment to our continued efforts to establish a compr R hensive data privacy standard in order to effectively crack down on abuses of Americans personal information today we will take the first step in creating long overdue laws to protect Americans from the threat posed by apps controlled by our adversaries and to send a very strong message that the US will always stand up for our values and freedom we will not allow for the continued targeting targeting surveilling and manipulation of Americans through foreign adversary controlled app apps I'm thankful to everyone here today who has worked in a bipartison manner to get us here including ranking member palone China select committee on the CCP chairman Mike Gallagher ranking member Chris Nam morthy and I look forward to today's market mark up and I yield back and now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey representative palone for five minutes for an opening statement well let me thank chair Rogers for her cooperation on this markup and the executive hearing that we held earlier today we're here to mark up two bills that we considered during our executive session earlier today we've just heard from the intelligence community and National Security Experts about the threats caused by Foreign adversar control of communication applications and their ability to easily purchase Americans data from data Brokers we also heard about the Constitutional issues implicated when legislation identifies a particular company or application for further SC scrutiny particularly when it involves speech and Association now as I mentioned at the beginning of our full Committee hearing this morning I do not believe it was necessary to rush this process nevertheless I hope members feel they gained important information in the executive session as we prepare to move forward on these bills on this timetable first uh let me mention HR 7521 the protecting Americans from foreign adversary controlled applications act bipartisan legislation introduced by represent chrish de morthy and Gallagher this bill would address the National Security risk posed by certain applications operated by companies controlled by Foreign adversaries specifically under the Bill's framework if an application is deemed to be operated by a company controlled by a foreign adversary the application must be divested from foreign adversary control within 180 days if the application is not divested entities in the United States would be prohibited from Distributing maintaining or updating the application through an online Marketplace and providing internet hosting Services the bill also requires foreign controlled adversary applications to provide users with all available data from their account including photos videos and posts if they requested it this will allow users to move their data to another application of their choice we'll also consider HR 7520 protecting Americans data from foreign adversaries Act of 2024 by Protestant legislation that I introduced with chair Rogers this bill protects American sensitive personal data by by prohibiting data that um well I should say by prohibiting data Brokers from selling transferring or giving access to such data to foreign adversaries or entities controlled by Foreign adversaries it also gives enforcement authority to the FTC and provides them with the authority to seek civil penalties of more than 50,000 for each violation of this prohibition I will be supporting both of these bills today my hope is that if an act HR 7521 will force divestment of Tik Tock and Americans will be able to continue use this and other similar situated platforms without the risk that they are being operated and controlled by our adversaries as I said this morning many of these platforms are modern-day media companies and we have a long history of restricting our Airwaves from ownership by Foreign governments and individuals due to the National Security concerns such Arrangements POS it is no different here and I take the concerns raised by the intelligence Community this morning very seriously they have asked Congress to give them more authority to act in these narrowly defined situations and I believe that this bill will do that and again I appreciate chair Rogers working with me on the protecting Americans data from foreign adversaries act this is also very important and necessary Bill given that even if Tik Tock and other foreign adversary controlled applications ceased to operate in the United States foreign adversary governments would still be able to purchase vast amounts of data about Americans through other means we must put an end to this and that's exactly what our bipartisan Bill does I also continue to firmly believe that we must pass comprehensive National Data privacy protections along the lines of the bill we overwhelmingly passed here in the committee last Congress and we are going to continue to work on that so I appreciate the work of all my colleagues on both sides of the aisle on these important bills and with that Madam chair I yield back the balance of my Time gentleman yields back chair calls up hr7 521 and ask the clerk to report HR 7521 a bill to protect the National Security of the United States from the threat posed by Foreign adversary controlled applications such without objection the first reading of the bill is dispensed with and the bill will be open for Amendment at any point so ordered does anyone seek to be recognized on the bill seeing none question now occurs on approving okay yes uh for what purpose does Miss ESU seek recognition thank you madam chairwoman to strike the last word gentle ladies recognized for five minutes thank you madam chairwoman and uh our ranking member thank you uh for the work that was put into this both to have the uh uh secured briefing and now uh the markup of a very important legislation uh I support the legislation uh and I do so because uh our first and most important uh responsibility as members of Congress is to defend our Constitution protect and defend our nation and its n and we do so by protecting our national security and this issue is a a national security uh issue I don't support Banning and I don't think anyone on this committee does but I do think that we have a very important case uh relative to divesture uh this legislation would separate Tik Tock the company from Beijing and its PRC based parent company and it would separate the data that Tik Tock uh collects its algorithms and its s code uh from Beijing uh Tik Tock has over 170 uh million users in the United States this is a a stunning scale and that gives it access to the personal data of every single uh one of um that is part of the 170 million uh plus users the National Security Law of the people's uh Republic of China requires all uh Chinese organizations to quote support assist and cooperate with National Intelligence efforts uh under uh law bite dance uh could be compelled by the Chinese government to provide data on American Tick Tock users this is a serious national security threat to the United States and to the privacy of every American and we can't ignore it the protecting Americans data from foreign adversary controlled applic ations act will address a known and immediate national security threat and it will protect Americans privacy and it will give this Administration and future administrations the authority to respond to uh such future National Security threats um I know that my colleagues here uh have heard me say that uh uh I served for almost a decade on the house intelligence committee and I'm privy to the details of Chinese Espionage and the threat that that poses I raised the alarm on Huawei and ZTE well over a decade ago and Congress finally took action we identified the threat posed by equipment manufactured by untrusted suppliers like hwe and ZTE and passed the secure and trusted Communications networks Act and the secure equipment act to address those threats the precedent for Congress to take this action exists and we shouldn't delay the technology we're considering today may be different but the threat and our duty remain the same even when this bill becomes law we still will need to pass comprehensive privacy legislation that limits what data can be collected and used uh uh to and and to protect Americans data far better than Banning any single company so with that Madam chair I yield back General lady Ys back for the discussion chair recognizes Mr krenshaw for five minutes to speak on the bill thank you madam chair I move to strike the last word gentleman's recognized for five minutes in 1999 two Chinese generals wrote a Doctrine called unrestricted Warfare where they argued that to beat the US China has to confront United States in a non-war non-military sphere of conflict they wrote that quote Warfare is no longer an activity confined only to the military sphere and that the course of any War could be changed or its outcome decided by political factors economic factors diplomatic factors cultural factors technological factors or other non-military factors China is at war with us and they use Tik Tock as a weapon or at least at least they can it's a platform that 150 million users are addicted to and can be persuaded by as we're seeing just today if you want to use your Tik Tok account you have to put in your ZIP code so that Tik Tok can tell you which representative you should call and that's just the beginning imagine when China wants to use it more nefariously imagine when they want to truly engage in psychological warfare against the American people spread rumors to intimidate us break down our will manipulate what we see manipulate public opinion they could drive cultural Trends they could drive us into insanity if they wanted because people are truly addicted to watching that app and they have all your data they could tailor it they could tailor that message to speak to each individual you want to know how you build a super super AI machine with a lot of data and they could easily weaponize that when they want to that's why we're so concerned about this it's not because we're old and grumpy and don't understand Tik Tok and how you use it for your business and how you use it to communicate with your friends I was on social media long before any of the geners who are mad about t Tik Tok I understand but the reality is is that Tik Tok is owned by a Chinese company called bite dance despite their denials it's actually with it's actually on their website that their parent company is bite dance bite dances in China and when you're in China you are subject to Chinese laws and Chinese laws dictate that if they want you to be a spy for China or operate on behalf of the Communist Party you are obligated to do so that's just how China Works and so this scenario that I'm putting out there where they could manipulate and and engage in psychological warfare against the American people it is not a crazy scenario it is it is an absolutely plausible scenario worth noting this legislation doesn't actually ban Tik Tok this legislation simply says that it had it would have to be owned by an American company that's it it's owned by an American company well then we could all download it and be happy with it and we can watch our Dance videos so that's all this does I don't think this goes too far this legislation has been carefully thought through um in collaboration with our colleagues across the aisle in collaboration with experts in the administration and I urge my colleagues to pass it for the for the sake of our future for the sake of our for our uh our our future against a potentially adversarial uh Chinese Communist party and for the sake of our young people and I yield back gentleman yields back for the discussion are there any amendments seeing none the question now occurs on approving HR 7521 and a roll call has been requested the clerk will call the rooll Burgess Burgess votes i l l votes I Guthrie Guthrie votes I Griffith Griffith votes I bill Rus Bill Rus votes I buan buan votes I Hudson Hudson votes I Wahlberg wallberg votes I Carter Carter votes I Duncan Duncan votes I Palmer dun dun votes I Curtis Curtis votes I leco leco votes I Pence Pence votes I caww CAW votes I Joyce Joyce votes I arms Armstrong Armstrong votes I Weber Weber votes I Allan Allan votes I balderson balderson votes I fure fure votes I fluger fluger votes I harshbarger harshbarger votes I Miller Meeks Miller Meeks votes I kamik kamik votes I overaly obaly votes I palone loone votes I ESU ASU votes I deette deette votes I schakowski metui metui votes I Caster Caster votes I sarbanes sarbanes votes I tonko tono votes I tonko votes I Clark I Clark votes I cardinus I cardinus votes I Ruiz Ruiz votes I Peters Peters votes I Dingle Dingle votes I vzy vzy votes I kuster kuster votes I Kelly Kelly votes I Bagon BL Rochester SoDo stto votes I Craig Craig votes I shrier shrier votes I Trahan Tran votes I Fletcher Fletcher votes I chair Rogers chair Rogers votes I is uh Mr Palmer recorded Mr Palmer is not recorded Palmer votes I Madame clerk how is Miss chowski recorded Miss chikowski is not recorded I chikowski votes I how is Miss baragan recorded Miss Bagan is not recorded Bagon votes I clerk will report chair Rogers on that vote there were 50 eyes and zero nose the eyes have it and the bill is adopted chair calls up HR 7520 and ask the clerk to report HR 7520 a bill to prohibit data Brokers from transferring sensitive data of the United States individuals to foreign adversaries and for other purposes without objection the first reading of the bill is dispensed with and the bill will be open for Amendment at any point so ordered does anyone seek to be recognized on the bill are there any amendments Miss Tran for what purpose do you seek recognition uh thank you chair Rogers I have an amendment at the desk number CB NL 017 the clerk will report amendment to HR 7520 offered by Miss Tran page one line four strike as the and all that follows through the period at the end of line five and insert as a data elimination and limiting extensive tracking and exchange Act without objection the reading will be dispensed with ladies recognized for 5 minutes in support of her Amendment M Tran well I'd like to thank the chair and the ranking member for calling today's markup uh I'm thrilled that the committee has resumed its vital work to protect the privacy of every American and I commend the committee for bringing forward the protecting American data from foreign adversaries act data Brokers have recklessly engaged in invasive data trafficking activities that violate our privacy and in many cases pose a direct threat to our national security Madam chair I'd like to submit into the record a study from Duke University that revealed the ease by which foreign actors can purchase data on American Service members without objection so uh in one case in this study for as little as 12 cents per individual researchers were able to purchase the family histories credit scores home addresses Health statuses and political affic affiliations for Americans in the military from foreign data brokers and they were able to do it with little to no vetting I'll say that again family histories credit scores home addresses Health statuses and political affiliations and the same can be done for intelligence officials tasked with safeguarding our most closely held Secrets this is a grave threat to our men and women in uniform and to our national security and while the efforts of the committee today represent an important step forward in reigning in the Shady and often negligent practices of data Brokers we must do more the bill in front of us today correctly bans data broker sales to foreign adversaries like my colleagues here today I support that wholeheartedly however I'm deeply concerned about simple workarounds that would allow an overseas middleman to buy the same data we're seeking to protect and immediately resell it to a hostile Nation like China Russia Iran or North Korea the only way to stop that from happening is to ensure that the data can be taken out of the hands of brokers in the first place I introduced the bipartisan delete act with Senators Bill Cassidy and John OA to give every American including those Brave service members who are courageously defending our country the right to have data Brokers delete and stop collecting their data and my Amendment which I will withdraw would take that straightforward approach and make it part of this important bill I know this is a concern shared by by me many members on both sides of the de as well as the officials who briefed us earlier today and I simply ask that the chair and ranking member work with me to ensure that we are maximizing this legislation's ability to protect Americans data and strengthen our national security why leave any decision over our personal sensitive data and that of the courageous Americans tasked with defending our nation to data brokers who have shown blatantly disregard on how to handle it let's work together to get this right I withdraw my Amendment and I yield back gentle lady withdraws her Amendment are there further amendments further discussion for what purpose does Miss ISU seek recognition I would just like to ask um our colleague why she's withdrawing the amendment it seems to me that there's a really compelling case that she has made and it's an opportunity for us to do do something about it why are we push down the road sure I'd be happy to yield um let me just say this the what the gentlewoman has um from Massachusetts has detailed is part of our national data privacy bill right and I mean I think I I need to stress to everybody maybe I didn't stress it enough when I spoke earlier you know our ultimate goal and is shared by chair Rogers and I is to get that bill passed um and so that's an inherent part of that larger bill and we haven't given up on it we're still meeting uh you know both sides of the aisle for Corners with the Senate to try to move it so we're not in any way um I mean not only not ignoring it we've embraced it completely so I I I just wanted you to be aware of that well I I appreciate the explanation uh but we are doing something about data brokers in this so it's to me is a a unique opportunity to take up the whole um the entirety you know the the broader issue but uh with that I uh I yield back the balance of my time I just hope before I yield back um I just hope that uh it's a policy that uh uh uh that there's a guarantee of taking it up because th this really can't be left on on the table I would have preferred it in this and gotten it done um but I'm not in charge so I yield back General lady yields back for the discussion for what purpose does m Kowski seek recognition I asked uh to strike the last word uh G ladies re recognize for five minutes thank you um I I'm in in favor of the legislation of Mr palon the um protecting American data from um legislation but I I I also want to say um follow up on what he had had said for fruit for far too long data Brokers have been operating out of sight of most consumers people don't really know that there are such thing as as data Brokers and they are not only concerned um about uh China or anyone else they are concerned right now and worried about the data that is being held and um used by all kinds of corporations that end up selling that through data Brokers and I wanted to reinforce what um Congressman palone had said is that what we need to do is to get moving on the American data privacy and protection act that we have to have a comprehensive privacy bill for people we have to give them the opportunity to um opt out from what um the um uh uh what data Brokers are are doing um and provide them with some power in order to uh protect themselves so I think this is a good first step but I think that as soon as we can we have to go further consumers have been waiting American consumers have been waiting too long and with that I yield back GLE lady yields back the timeline has slipped on that other bill but the commitment is still very strong we're working on it okay um let's see here further discussion further amendments see none question occurs on approving HR 7520 and a roll call has been requested the clerk will call the rooll burges v i Burgess votes i l Guth three I Guth three votes I Griffith Griffith votes I bakus bakus votes I bushan ban votes I Hudson Hudson votes I Wahlberg Wahlberg votes I Carter Carter votes I Duncan Duncan votes I Palmer Palmer votes I dun Dunn votes I Curtis Curtis votes I Lesco Lesco votes I Pence Pence votes I kinshaw kinshaw votes I Joyce Joyce votes I Armstrong Armstrong votes I Weber Weber votes I Allen Allan votes I balderson balderson votes I fure fure votes I fluger fluger votes I harsh Barger harsh Barger votes I Miller Meeks Miller Meeks votes I kamik kamik votes I obaly obaly votes I palone I palone votes I ESU ASU votes I deette deette votes I schakowski schakowski votes I Matsui Matsui votes I Caster Caster votes I sarbanes I sarbanes votes I tonko I tonko votes I Clark Clark votes I cardinus cardinus votes I Ruiz Ruiz votes I Peters Peters votes I Dingle Dingle votes I vzy vzy votes I kuster kuster votes I Kelly Kelly votes I Bagon Bagon votes I blunt Rochester Soto stto votes I Craig Craig votes I shrier shrier votes I tran tran votes I Fletcher Fletcher votes I chair Rogers I chair Rogers votes I Madam clerk how is Mr L recorded Mr L is not recorded i l votes I clerk will report chair Rogers on that vote there were 50 eyes and zero nose the eyes have it and the bill is adopted without objection staff is authorized to make Technical and conforming changes to the legislation approved by the committee today so ordered without objection the committee stand stands adjourned