DID JOHN THORPE PROPOSE MARRIAGE TO CATHERINE MORLAND? Jane Austen NORTHANGER ABBEY novel analysis

hello and welcome to close reading class of literature with me dr octavia cox today i'm going to analyze jane austen's hilarious novel northanger abbey in particular i want to examine the way that jane austen textually structures miscommunication characters miscommunicating is a theme that runs throughout jane austen's novels as it does centrally in northanger abbey and in fact jane austen has the narrative voice explicitly joke about language and misunderstanding and miscommunication throughout the text so as a great example i think um catherine says when she's having a conversation with henry tilney i cannot speak well enough to be unintelligible to which henry responds bravo an excellent satire on modern language so the narrative voice is picking up and asking readers to think about the way that language is used to be unintelligible often in the case of northanger abbey but also how people um try to communicate and sometimes fall short and sometimes fail to uh convey what they mean even if to them what they mean seems perfectly obvious and i mean to look at a particularly funny i think example of that today today i'm going to look at a specific example of jane austen's use of language making characters unintelligible to one another in particular john thorpe and catherine moorland in chapter 18 of jane austen's northanger abbey catherine moorland meets up with her new very best friend isabella thorpe who has recently become engaged to catherine morland's brother james morland isabella thorpe's brother john thorpe is the new best friend of james moorland they are both students together at oxford and the foursome have recently been frolicking around bath together and going on phil ill-fated carriage excursions for example to blaze castle john thorpe has led catherine to believe that blaise castle is the oldest castle in the kingdom now they don't actually get there um on on the kind of escapade that they go on because it's really far too far away from bath to get there um given the time they set out and so on but so you've got kind of that element exposing john thorpe for the reader but the knowing reader will also be aware that blaise castle is in fact far from being the oldest castle in the kingdom blaise castle is actually an 18th century folly built in 1766. so when northanger abbey was composed in the 1790s it was only a few decades old far from being the oldest castle in the kingdom and of course the knowing reader for the knowing reader this will set up expectations of the gothic and the modern that catherine will then go on to experience when she actually goes to northanger abbey but going back to what we're talking about today and miscommunication so one morning isabella thorpe tells catherine moorland i have just had a letter from john you can guess the contents no indeed i cannot my sweet love do not be so abominate abominably affected and this of course is from isabella thought of all people perhaps one of the most abominably affected characters in all of austin my sweet love do not be so abominably affected what can he write about but yourself you know he is head over ears in love with you with me dear isabella nay my sweetest catherine this is being quite absurd modesty and all that is very well in its way but really a little common honesty is sometimes quite as becoming again this is very ironic given that it's coming from isabella thorpe i have no idea of being so over strained it is fishing for compliments again this is from isabella his attentions were such as a child must have noticed and it was but half an hour before he left bath that you gave him the most positive encouragement he says so in this letter says that he has as good as made you an offer and that you received his advances in the kindest way and now he wants me to urge his suit and say all manner of pretty things to you so it is vain to affect ignorance catherine with all the earnestness of truth express her astonishment at such a charge protesting her innocence of every thought of mr thoughts being in love with her and the consequent impossibility of her having ever attended intended to encourage him and this is from chapter 18. so obviously we have here a significant uh miscommunication an example of a very significant miscommunication and who is correct had john thorpe effectively proposed to catherine moorland and how could it be that john thorpe had proposed if the supposed recipient of the proposal had no idea about it at all to understand this a little bit more we need to turn back a few chapters to the actual proposal scene to chapter 15. james moorland has just proposed to isabella thorpe this is on their subsequent successful addition to an expedition to blaise castle and she is now the happiest creature in the world and when isabella tells catherine about their engagement the narrative reads the happiness of having such a sister was their first effusion and the fair ladies mingled in embraces and tears of joy so i want to pay attention quickly to jane austen's use of addiction here you can tell that it's very overblown it is the language of sensibility typical of the kinds of novel that jane austen pokes fun at throughout northanger abbey so in the famous defense of the novel section in chapter five the narrative voice had even referred to such novels as effusions of fancy which were regarded as trash by condescending reviewers so the narrative voice in that section the defense of the novel section reads let us leave it to the reviewers to abuse such effusions of fancy at their leisure and over every new novel to talk in threadbare strains of the trash with which the press now groans so isabella's and catherine's effusions of fancy then should make the reader's ears prick up we've had this defense of the novel section and the narrative voice defending essentially effusions of fancy and here now later in the very novel that that defense happened in we're having these two characters sort of show their effusions of fancy so what might readers is prick up about about um about this well first readers might be reminded of the cultivated affectation of isabella thorpe and the falseness of her language of sensibility the language of effusions of fancy that come from the novels that isabella likes to read and that are also influencing catherine moorland isabella in some ways adopts the language of those novels um in a way that catherine mullen doesn't quite understand um and that's something that john thorpe tries to utilize too i think as we shall see in the supposed proposal scene i think it should also alert readers to the novelistic gothic undercurrents that are operating with the thorpes which also come into play in the proposed um the supposed proposal scene so you can see john thorpe in some ways as a kind of comic rendering of the familiar gothic villain for example in the plot of him having kidnapped catherine moorland in his carriage so when they are going off on this trip to blaise castle she asks him to stop the carriage and he only laughs and drives on faster and he even whips his horses for good measure a trope of gothic literature is the naive innocent heiress seduced by an unscrupulous fortune hunting man and that is how with one eye we can read the scene that then unfolds that is after uh isabella and catherine have expressed their effusions of fancy that is we can see john thorpe as a kind of gothic comic gothic villain as we later learn in the penultimate chapter so that's in chapter 30 in a fit of self self-aggrandizement john thorpe imagines that catherine is the acknowledged heiress of the acknowledged future heiress of the fullerton estate so the allens are wealthy and childless and katherine is under their care in bath and they treat her with parental kindness so john thorpe assumes that catherine must be due to inherit mr allen's fullerton estate the narrative voice observes damningly i would say of john thorpe with whomsoever he was or was likely to be connected his own consequence always required that theirs should be great and as his intimacy with any acquaintance grew so regularly grew their fortune in other words as the thorpes get closer to the moorlands john thought because of his own vanity amplifies their wealth because it shines well on him he thinks to be hanging out with people who are wealthy so the closer they get the more wealthy he sort of imagines that the morelands are and the more he tells other people that the morelands are wealthy so the the wealthier he imagines catherine the more he wants to marry her so as the narrative voice says with whomsoever he was or was likely to be connected his own consequence his own vanity always required that theirs should be great so as he comes to see himself more and more likely as being married to catherine he sort of um amplifies how rich and wealthy he thinks she is and it is this uh john thorpe's self-aggrandizing uh delusion of course that leads to the miscommunication with uh general tilney and why general tilney thinks that catherine is also an heiress and where that miscommunication misunderstanding happens it happens through john thorpe so we have that if we look at the text with one eye with the other eye however in the apparent proposal scene that unfolds we can see katherine morlan's difficulty in understanding the thoughts a family that despite isabella's protestations do not clearly say what they really mean so i'm going to turn now to the proposal scene between john thorpe and catherine moorland and it shows off jane austen's literary skill and control wonderfully i think and it's a fabulous example of jane austen's ability to weave together a conversation in which the meaning for the two speakers is completely different and it almost couldn't be more different than in this particular example so you've got john thorpe who is in the process of and thinks he has successfully proposed and then on the other hand you have catherine moorland who is being polite but who basically wants to get rid of him as quickly as possible she really dislikes him but of course she doesn't want to offend him because their siblings have just got engaged so they are effectively going to become extended family and we remember that after the uh trip to blaise castle with the sort of everyday kidnapping so gothic trope converted into their every day the narrative voice tells us she catherine was less and less disposed either to be agreeable herself or to find her companion so and you can sort of see that very much here in the supposed proposal scene so as i read through i want to pay attention to how john thorpe and catherine moorland are speaking so beautifully at cross purposes and how jane austen constructs these two conversations that are running in tandem so how everything that catherine says is a reasonable response to her thinking that they are talking about the upcoming marriage of james and isabella their siblings and that she's trying to get him to go away as quickly as possible but also how john thorpe could interpret that very same conversation to be encouraging him in a pursuit of her the text reads when the contents of the letter were ascertained so this is james moreland's letter confirming that mr moreland has consented for james moorland to marry isabella thorpe so he has gone back to fullerton the moreland's home the home area and has written back to say yes it's all fine they've agreed that we can get married so when the contents of the letter were ascertained so the idea of isabella and james their upcoming marriages sort of put right at the front of this conversation preface essentially this conversation john thorpe who had only waited its arrival to begin his journey to london prepared to set off well miss moorland said he on finding her alone in the parlor and this is a fundamental part of regency courting culture which is that you really have to take your opportunities where you can find them in terms of being alone because you weren't really an an unmarried young man and an unmarried young woman were not really supposed to be alone together and so john thorpe sees this opportunity of finding her alone in the parlor um and just as an example of that we might think of mrs bennett for example in pride and prejudice where she has to sort of organize things to try and get everybody else out of the room so that mr bingley can propose to jane and lizzy just finds it terribly terribly embarrassing because mrs bennett winks at the mall and kitty doesn't understand why mrs bennett's winking at her um and it's all terribly embarrassing but it's part of the same culture essentially which is that it was difficult to find occasions when unmarried young men and young women could be alone together so john thorpe finds this occasion where she is alone in the parlor i am come to bid you goodbye catherine wished him a good journey she just wants him to be on his way to get out of there as quickly as possible without appearing to hear her he walked to the window fidgeted about hummed a tune and seemed wholly self-occupied and in many ways in terms of his relationship with catherine john thorpe is often self-occupied and concerned really only with his feelings and not really at all with catherine's we might think of for example the carriage ride that i've already mentioned to blaise castle and to some extent i think the first time reader will continue to read this in that way that john thorpe here comically doesn't understand that he is really not wanted that catherine just wants him to leave but being self-occupied you know he just doesn't realize that i think that's what the first time reader probably thinks i think also though as a as a kind of a side but i think it's interesting we can see some parallels here in this description of john thorpe with the way that edward ferris is described in sense and sensibility when he comes to propose to eleanor so incense and sensibility the text reads he rose from his seat and walked to the window apparently from not knowing what to do took up a pair of scissors so like john thorpe he sort of is fidgeting he walks up he walks over to the window and of course they're very different john thorpe is a kind of anti-hero in north anger abbey and edward ferris is a hero of sorts uh in sense and sensibility um but still i think it's interesting that you can see austin playing with the same kinds of thinking in these two texts that are written or referred to kind of compose first conceived job at a similar time um in the 1790s that she's using the same kind of imagery in the same kind of language in these two scenes even though therefore two very different kinds of male character um so catherine then says shall not you be late at divisors she's really trying to get him to be on his way so devises is a stop-off point on between bath and london he made no answer but after a minute's silence burst out with a famous good thing this marrying scheme upon my soul a clever fancy of morelands and bells so john thorpe here mentions james and isabella and this is in essence the um cause of their misunderstanding or at least part of the reason for their misunderstanding because james because john thorpe brings in james and isabella and so catherine thinks that that is what they are talking about that they are talking about the marriage of their siblings so a clever fancy of morlins and bells what do you think of it miss moreland i say it is no bad notion so john thought brings up the oncoming marriage of james and isabella as a way of introducing the subject of marriage and then saying what do you think of it miss moreland and talking about marriage as a notion rather than about james and isabella in particular but catherine doesn't quite pick up on this and she says i am sure i think it's a very good one again she's thinking in terms of james and isabella but we can see from john thorpe's response that he sees what she says very differently do you that's honest by heavens so john thorpe here we can see from the sort of strength of his language that's honest by heavens he thinks that catherine catherine thinks that the notion of them getting married is a very good one and why he says that's honest by heavens is because he has interpreted what catherine has said as being quite forward and saying i am sure i think it's a very good one as in i am sure i think the notion of the two of us getting married is a very good one it's a very good notion and that's honest by heavens because that would that would be quite forward for her to have said that because in the culture of the regency in the culture of the time the woman was not supposed to be too assertive in terms of uh organizing or arranging the marriage they were supposed to sort of wait until they were asked so her saying i'm sure i think it's a very good one he is interpreted by heaven uh by heaven's that's honest as her saying very straightforwardly yes i i think it's a good idea for the two of us to get married which would be forward for the time i am glad you are no enemy to matrimony however did you ever hear the old song going to one wedding brings on another i say will you come to belle's wedding i hope so he in his sort of thinking phrasing here he's referring to this old song which is i i haven't come across it as a song um i did research into this i haven't come come across it as an old song it's an old proverb um an old saying um and that might also be where some of the confusion comes in because it might not be that it's an old song just that it's an old saying but he thinks bringing up this phrase going to one wedding brings on another and then saying are you coming to the one wedding in his mind then he's sort of asking do you want to bring on another wedding when she says yes i have promised your sister to be with her if possible so he interprets that as her saying that yes she does want to bring on the other wedding she wants to go to the one wedding and bring on the other wedding catherine meanwhile just think she's being polite and of course she wants to go to her very new best friend's wedding to her brother why wouldn't she go to that wedding obviously and then you know twisting himself about and forcing a foolish laugh i say then you know we may try the truth of this same old song that is try the truth of the phrase going to one wedding brings on another and that is obviously in his eyes getting married themselves may we but i never sing clearly she has not caught the gist and is politely trying to stop him from encouraging them from doing anything else together at all she thinks he's saying we can sing a duet together we can try this old song and she's sort of politely saying yes you know may we i don't sing though so kind of removing herself from having to perform a duet with john thorpe because she doesn't really want to do anything at all with him uh ever again if she can possibly help it after the sort of um catastrophe of the the kidnapping uh carriage ride well i wish you a good journey i dine with miss tilney today and must now be going home she's really really trying to get rid of him nay but there is no such confounded hurry who knows when we may be together again that's going back to the idea of that they have happened to find themselves alone and that they should take advantage of this opportunity not but that i shall be down again by the end of a fortnight and a devilish long fortnight it will appear to me so here john thorpe is trying to be gallant and he's adopting trying to adopt the is affecting uh the language and the imagery of sensibility in sort of echoing a sense or trying to echo the language of isabella who's much better at adopting the language of all the novels she reads the effusions of fancy that she reads and using that language in the way that she describes her relationship with uh james moreland and indeed with catherine too the sort of affected language of emotionally affected language of sensibility and here john thorpe is is trying trying to do that not but that i shall be down again by the end of a fortnight and a devilish long fortnight it will appear to me so he's trying to um conjure up the image of someone saying you know how and i how can i how will i ever bear it to be away from you for a fortnight it's going to seem like such a long time and how am i going to cope to be away from you and that sort of imagery he's trying to um affect but of course jane austen is kind of comically mocking it and undercutting such uh effusions of fancy in in the language that she chooses to give him in her choice of diction so the his use of devilish undercuts the apparent sensibility of that image that he's trying to adopt and trying to cultivate and we can see that from the next section in catherine's response she thinks she's giving just a very reasonable practical response then why do you stay away so long replied catherine finding that he waited for an answer so he has sort of proffered what he sees as this gallant observation i'm going to miss you for a fortnight type thing and he's waiting for her likewise to adopt the language of sensibility and to say something similarly uh effusive but she thinks she's just being rational you know okay if you don't want to stay away for a fortnight then why do you stay away so long it's her reading of the situation but he interprets what she has said as her saying that she doesn't want him to stay away for so long so he he reads sensibility into her rational practical question in response to him so he says that is kind of you however kind and good-natured now if we go back to uh what isabella says when she brings this up with catherine which i mentioned earlier but which happens later in the novel she says that john thorpe has said in his letter that uh says that he is as good as made you an offer and that you received his advances in the kindest way so john thorpe thinks that she has received his advances in the kindest way and it's that use of kind that i think we can see coming in here too when he says that is kind of you and of course if he had interpreted it in the way that she had meant it that would not make any sense at all because she's asked a practical question and why do you stay away so long and he said that is kind of you so he's clearly interpreted her rational question as her in fact implying that she doesn't want him to stay away so long that is kind of you however kind and good-natured and this next section i think is is sort of it beautifully shows off so many of the failings of john thorpe and the way that austin constructs i think is is really interesting in terms of the kind of duality it's operating just in this short little passage so and just watch out for how many times he says good natured here that is kind of you however kind and good-natured i shall not forget it in a hurry because he's that's also the sort of language of sensibility when you have these uh sort of charming male characters say i'll remember that you've said that forever uh type thing and here he's saying i shall not forget it in a hurry that is her in her eyes practical rational question that he has sort of taken to to be something um emotional and an effusion of fancy so in this passage we can see that he's sort of trying to adopt the language of sensibility but he but failing he really can't grasp it at all but you have more good nature and all that than anybody living i believe a monstrous deal of good nature and it is not only good nature but you have so much so much of everything and then you have such upon my soul i do not know anybody like you so here we have this kind of construction i think that jane austen sort of reads beautifully which is that he in this moment exposes both his ambition and his vicuity so we can see his ambition in in the hyperbole that he's trying to grasp out when he's sort of trying to play the figure of the lover he's using the language of hyperbole in terms of saying you have more good nature than anybody living and so much so much of everything you know over the top language that he's using here but so he's good on the one hand he's got that but it's undercut simultaneously with the sort of comically bland platitudes that he's actually coming out with good nature that's the best that he can come up with is that she has a good nature well having a good nature is of course a lovely thing but it's not really what you would expect in the language of love and his sort of lack of imagination is shown in and how much he repeats good nature kind and good nature but you have more good nature a monstrous deal of good nature and again that's that's um austin using dictionary addictions beautifully to undercut um the effect of what's being said in in a similar way to the way that devilish was used earlier and a devilish long fortnight it will appear to me similarly here a monstrous deal of good nature so a monstrous deal of good nature but it's not only good nature that you have but so much so much of everything and then you have such he cannot think of anything to say he cannot think of any particular thing that he can pick up on about catherine that is special to him or that he particularly loves about her or that is particularly unique about her the only thing he can say again again is that she is good-natured he literally cannot think of any way in which she is special but then you have such can't think of anything so he changes the subject upon my soul i do not know anybody like you and catherine responds oh dear there are a great many people like me i dare say only a great deal better good morning to you she's really trying to get him out of the door and she's using kind of standard self-effacing language essentially you know she's being uh politely modest she's using the language that you would expect her to use here and even someone like isabella thought might adopt a similar kind of position of being in isabella's case apparently self-effacing um although here catherine really does mean it she's responding very sort of openly and earnestly you know because she does think that there are a lot of people who are a great deal better than her uh you know someone like ellen and tilney for example and to this john thorpe says but i say miss moorland i shall come and pay my respects at fullerton before it is long if not disagreeable so we should remember that james moreland has just gone to fullerton to get their parents consent to marry that's the kind of introduction into this scene so john thorpe is here asking to go likewise justice james moorland has just done to fullerton to ask for her parents consent to marry this is moving on a pace he's now got to the point where he's saying right i'm going to go to your parents and ask them to consent to our marriage if not disagreeable so again he's he's suggesting you know do you want me to go and do that is that disagreeable to you or agreeable to you and she then responds pray do so he takes this as encouragement my father and mother will be very glad to see you catherine is thinking in terms of james uh of john thorpe being james moreland's friend and of course then the brother of their daughter-in-law but you can see why john thorpe might see this as her saying very much that his uh saying that he's going to go to fullerton is not disagreeable to her so he then says and i hope i hope miss moreland you will not be sorry to see me at fullerton oh dear not at all there are very few people i'm sorry to see company is always cheerful so she is sort of using the language of bland generalizing and he takes this as evidence of their compatibility that is just my way of thinking give me but a little cheerful company let me only have the company of the people i love let me only be where i like and with whom i like and the devil take the rest say i so for john thorpe this is apparently sort of describing their future life together and i am heartily glad to hear you say the same but i have a notion miss moreland you and i think pretty much alike upon most matters and of course like this is just dripping with irony because at this moment they are categorically not thinking alike at all about something as fundamental as their future life together you know they couldn't be thinking more differently here he thinks he's proposing their future life together and she just wants to get him out the door as quickly as possible and doesn't even realize that he is proposing to her thought pig really couldn't be more wrong i have a notion that you and i think pretty much like on most matters he hasn't picked up at all on the fact that she really doesn't like him very much she responds perhaps we may but it is more than i've ever thought of and as to most matters to say the truth there are not many i that i know my own minds about and again he sees us as a sign of compatibility by jove no more do i it is not my way to bother my brains with what does not concern me my notion of things is simple enough let me only have the girl i like say i which is what he thinks he's getting at the present moment let me only have the girl i like say i with a comfortable house over my head and what care i for all the rest fortune is nothing and here is where it turns into something a little bit darker i think because throughout austin and probably more generally even when someone says something as absolute as fortune is nothing i think you have to be on the lookout slightly and a little bit cautious about trusting what they say because and i for example i think a good comparison would be somebody like charlotte lucas so in pride and prejudice when she agrees to marry mr collins the narrative voice catches it very explicitly as her thinking that she wants only a comfortable home that's what charlotte is seeking in marrying mr collins she wants only a comfortable home and that same word same imagery is being used here with a comfortable house over my head what care i for all the rest but charlotte explicitly the narrative voice does not say that she does not care about all the rest for charlotte lucas it's not fortune is nothing she wants that comfortable house because she wants the economic security and she makes no bones about that the narrative voice presents charlotte as being upfront and open and honest with her feelings about mr collins and about marrying him in order to have a comfortable house i mean it even says you know she met um from the pure and disinterested motive of um of getting a house but here john thorpe is being very disingenuous fortune is nothing let me only have the girl i like say i so there are those two claims where he's being disingenuous and we know that he can't really like katherine because he can't even find a single thing to say about her specifically that isn't just that she's good-natured so he's being disingenuous when he says you know that she is particularly the girl that he really likes and that that fortune is nothing now in the middle there's the idea of the comfortable house over my head and that's what makes him different from somebody like charlotte lucas i think who wants that comfortable house but is not disingenuous about those other two things she doesn't particularly claim to like mr collins and she doesn't claim that the fortune is nothing she's up front and open the narrative now we as readers we don't have access to conversations that she and mr collins had with each other and who knows what she said specifically to him when the two of them are in private but in terms of the narrative voice and what the reader is actually presented with we are presented with a character who is straightforward and not disingenuous in terms of the reasons for wanting a comfortable house you know a comfortable home comfortable house over her head so john thorpe can claim what care i for all the rest but charlotte never makes a claim like that she she does care about she does care about the economics of it i am sure of a good income of my own that's not so clear that he is actually um and if she had not a penny why so much the better and this again is very disingenuous here because john thorpe thinks that catherine is a great heiress and that in fact really her fortune is everything and we know that from the the text i quoted earlier about him getting his um self-worth essentially from the wealth of those around him and he has got keener and keener and keener on catherine the more and more that he sort of imagines that she is an heiress and that she will bring wealth to any marriage that they might have so he's saying this to her but it is disingenuous probably john thorpe cannot believe his luck here when she then responds very true i think like you there he thinks that he's managed to engineer a situation in which he has landed he thinks a rich heiress um who doesn't care that he is not an heir like her that he's not due to inherit uh great wealth and land and so on very true i think like you there if there is a good fortune on one side there can be no occasion for any on the other so he thinks that she is saying i'm bringing my fortune here to the marriage my good fortune here to the marriage and there's no occasion for any on the other i don't mind that you are not also an heir no matter which has it so that there is enough i hate the idea of one great fortune looking out for another and to marry for money i think the wickedest thing in existence so you can see that john thorpe might have think might have thought that he's playing a blinder by saying fortune is nothing because she is now picking up on that same imagery into marriage for money i think the wickedest thing in existence of course we readers know that catherine is being um perfectly sort of straightforward and thinking in the abstract here and she then says good day we shall be very glad to see you at phil and fullerton whenever is convenient and that from his perspective seems to be very encouraging she seems to be saying you know i will be glad we will be glad to see you at fullerton as soon as it's convenient for you so yes you should come to my parents to ask for ask for consent for us to get married just going back to that phrase and to marry for money i think the wickedest thing in existence we do have again the kind of hyperbolic language that's usually associated with gothic fiction of the period the wickedest thing in existence so in terms of the gothic imagery if this were all true if this were all the case then john thorpe would be doing the wickedest thing in existence because he would be marrying her for money despite obviously his completely false claims that fortune to him is nothing and away she went it was not in the power of all his gallantry to detain her longer i love that kind of cutting sarcasm there by the narrative voice with such news to communicate that is james and isabella's engagement and such a visit to prepare for that is that she's been asked in northanger by the tilneys her departure was not to be delayed by anything in his nature to urge you know she really just wants to get on with the important things that she wants to be doing and she hurried away leaving him to the undivided consciousness of his own happy address address meaning that he's you know he's paid his addresses he's asked her to marry him and her explicit encouragement so the narrative voice gives us a very good insight into what john thorpe is thinking here he thinks that he's been completely successful did john thorpe propose well yes i think he did when you read it through knowing that john thorpe thinks he's proposing you can understand why he thinks that catherine is actively encouraging his pursuit of her but it's also clear that catherine responds with what she thinks is obviously detached politeness and it's so wonderfully wrought by jane austen that you can have these two completely different opposing opinions and then both be supported by the textual evidence i think it's a great way of thinking about you know in your own life even how two people can come away from a conversation and and sort of extract quotations from it and still come out with completely different ideas about what actually happened so on the one hand you can see why it's reasonable for john thorpe to have thought that he has proposed to her and that she has been actively encouraging him but equally you can see why catherine can say in all earnest uh truthfulness as uh as i quoted in that conversation that she has with um isabella that happens later in the text catherine with all the earnestness of truth expressed her astonishment at such a charge protesting her innocence of every thought of mr thorpe's being in love with her and the consequent impossibility of her having ever intended to encourage him you can absolutely see how those two paradoxical contradictory um views of the conversation could have come out of the same conversation because of the way that austin creates uh the dialogue between them and the other thing i think you can see in this um section is how austin converts and northanger abbey is all about really how to convert the gothic and the sort of worries of the gothic and so on how so in this case that you've got this kind of unscrupulous fortune hunting man who almost seduces this naive innocent young heiress and how austin draws on those gothic tropes and how she converts them comically into the everyday thank you very much indeed for listening remember if you like what i do here on my channel where i analyze classic literature then do subscribe and if you have liked the video then do press the like button the thumbs up button it does help me out in youtube's algorithm and i would love to know what you think of the way that jane austen constructs this uh scene between john thorpe and catherine wallen so do let me know your thoughts in the comments below