‘Pathetic!’ Royal expert reacts to Prince Harry & Meghan Markle hints to King | Palace Confidential

The King's new Spice Girls moment, Harry, Meghan and the Charade of Christmas at Sandringham and William and Catherine's PDA from the person who witnessed it first hand. Stick with us for another fantastic episode. Hello and welcome to Palace Confidential. I'm Jo Elvin. Joining me today to talk us through the week's biggest royal news is the Daily Mail's Royal Editor Rebecca English, the Paper's Diary Editor Richard Eden and we've got a newcomer to the panel, the Mail on Sunday's Royal Correspondent Natasha Livingston. Welcome to all of you. Now, a very happy Thanksgiving to all of our American viewers as well. And a reminder that if you enjoy our show, please do like and subscribe to our free channel to be reminded whenever a new episode arrives. Well, it's always nice to kick the show off with the sort of pomp and pageantry that our royals are just simply the best at. And this week, Charles and Camilla were laying it on for the Korean President Yoon Suk-yool and his wife Kim Kyon as they enjoyed a state visit to the UK. Now, Rebecca, the big event was the state dinner and you were there. Well, do you think it would have been a success? You make it sound like I was eating and I just... You were at the table mopping Camilla's white sauce from the roast off her face. You were, weren't you? Don't shatter my illusions. I was in a back room eating a sandwich, watching them on video. It's all glamour for you, royal reporters. It's all glamour. But what I do love, and it is a real treat as a royal correspondent, you get to do this, but we are allowed to go and have a look at the table before the guests arrive. That is such a peasant thing. You can come and look and then leave. Look, no photos, don't touch. But it's great. That's like when you turn right on the aeroplane and you get to walk past all the first class passengers on your way to your crappy seat. I keep on telling you, Jo, that is my life. But what's great, you get to have a look. Actually, I've written a big piece about that on our royal site, on the Daily Mail website. Because, yeah, Secret's the State Banquet. Because you just pick up so much fascinating little tidbits there that you wouldn't get otherwise. Give us some more, Sol. Well, I love seeing the seating plan. Obviously, you had kind of K-pop stars next to kind of politicians and courtiers. You can see who's got a little kind of vial of organic olive oil by their seat. The King and Queen had a kind of heater behind them because the room was pretty cold. I just love seeing little bits like that. And actually, the banquet was a real success. I mean, they'd really laid out the red carpet all day. And so by the time King Charles took to his feet to give the toast and his speech, he then burst into a phrase in Korean. And the president, they wouldn't normally do this, but was so excited by this, he kind of smiled and was clapping his hands and everyone else kind of clapped politely. So you can see how much of an effort Buckingham Palace had made and how well that effort was received. I think it was a great event. And how is it measured as a success or not, these sorts of things? Good question. I mean, social media is a good barometer now. And I think obviously because of South Korea and K-pop and the fact that there was a very famous K-pop girl band. If you've got Blackpink there, you've got 80 million eyeballs. Exactly. I mean, I was told their social media posts at the past, social media posts were going off the Richter scale. But you can pick up on, I think, when things work and when they don't work. As I said before, the reaction of the South Korean president and the words he gave was so, so warm and so grateful and emphasising what a great friend the UK had been to South Korea over the years. You could just tell that things had worked well behind the scenes as well. Speaking of friendliness, you captured a rather personal moment between Al William and Catherine, didn't you? I did. I did. And actually when, talking about social media posts, I think they went off the Richter scale on that. There's a moment after they have the private lunch, after the big ceremonial welcome, where they come back and they always have it, they have an array of items from the Royal Collection pertaining to that country that's visiting over the years. The South Korean display is actually a little bit more smaller than others because I don't think there were diplomatic relations until like the late 19th century. Anyway, I spotted William and Kate at one point, really looking animated together, so I thought, I'll just do a little video of this. And then again, and they were wrapping their arms around each other. Which you don't see with royals, do you? You just don't. No. And with them, they're very much focused on the job in hand. But I think what was nice is it was a really candid, very unscripted moment. They clearly didn't know anyone was really watching because they were walking out of the door as it happened. And there was a little moment where you kind of saw their fingers touch, like they were almost going to hold hands, but didn't. It was very, very sweet, I thought. Very sweet. Natasha, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Don't be scared. It's all amongst friends. You were also at the state dinner and Catherine's outfit was one for the ages, wasn't it? What can you tell us about it? Well, she wore two fabulous outfits that day. In the evening, it was a kind of white gown with a tiara, but the one that got most of the headlines was actually something she wore earlier in the day, which was a Catherine Walker cape coat, which was a new style for me. And it was really quite a ginormous red hat, but it was down from the hat to the heels, it was all the same red. And it was just so eye-catching. And one thing that I thought was quite funny is there was a particular photograph as she got out of the car, there was sort of a cheeky flash of leg. And it just seemed to spur so many articles about how we can possibly get legs that might be as fabulous as the Princess of Wales. People were speculating it was not just rugby, which we know she does, but also Reformer Pilates, which I have actually tried and is akin to torture. So I don't know if she does that. I think good jeans help. Yeah, exactly. Definitely good jeans. Good jeans, good tailoring. I mean, it was a show-stopping outfit, wasn't it? Was it one of your fashion highlights from the event, Rebecca? Totally. And actually, I think there's one thing that wasn't really picked up on, but she was in red and Queen Camilla was in blue, and the colours echoed the colour of the South Korean flag. And I don't think people picked up on that. And the British. Oh, yeah, and the British. But again, I think we've spoken on this programme before about how the royals will often pay tribute to the countries they're visiting by coordinating outfits or having little details incorporated. I thought that was a really nice touch as well. I mean, obviously, the King could have paid his tribute by busting out a bit of gang-nang style, couldn't he, Richard? But he did have a K-pop moment, didn't he? Well, this was the speech that King Charles gave at the State Banquet, and I think his team had quite a lot of fun with it. The speech was littered with references to K-pop, which is hugely popular pop music. I'm not quite sure how familiar the King is himself with the music, but it certainly sounded like he was. And this wasn't the end of his involvement with K-pop, because the next day he presented honorary MBEs to the four members of Black Pink, which are one of the world's biggest pop bands. I have a question about that. Okay, what's your question? Well, look, it wasn't... I've done my research. Forgive me. Good on Black Pink, but it's the most random awarding of an MBE I think I've ever had. Well, it wasn't just for their music, which is very popular, and it wasn't for their looks. They're these beautiful women, but it was actually for their environmental campaigning, because I didn't know about this, but they are very keen on environmental campaigning, and they did something for the COP26. I think it was 26. And so the King, as we all know, is always keen to reward environmentalism, so he gave them honorary MBEs. On government advice as well. Well, good on you, Black Pink. Rebecca, I think we did see an interesting side to the King in his exchanges with Black Pink too, didn't we? Yes, I was listening to the raw, what we call raw video footage that comes in of that investiture. Oh, that could go very badly. And they have gone very badly wrong in the past. I do remember the late Queen, a moment at a garden party, where bizarrely her umbrella acted as a megaphone, and you could hear her making some quite waspish remarks. There was an absolute scandal about that. But I was listening to the raw footage, and you could hear him saying, like, I really like your dance routines. Now, I'll be honest, I'm not a great aficionado of K-pop, I don't know a lot about it, but I looked at some of the videos online, and they're quite raunchy. Well, that's why he likes them. So I made a couple of calls to people saying, did they give like a special performance after the State Banquet? And someone said to me back, very puzzled, going, we had some violinists. And then I asked, I've just been at a Palace event today, and I asked someone again today, and they said, oh, no, I think he saw them on YouTube. So the search history always gives it away. You've got to do your research. I have to say, we do miss Prince Philip on occasions like this. He was always there with an interesting remark or two. He would have very much enjoyed Black Pink's dance routines. Natasha, you were with the Duchess of Edinburgh yesterday, as she accompanied the Korean president to the Royal Society. What was that like? Yeah, I mean, I'd never been to the Royal Society before. So, you know, it's a beautiful building. And yeah, Sophie Wessex greeted the president outside, and then they were brought into the building to kind of look at artefacts in the collection. And there were lots of things relating to Sir Isaac Newton, who is obviously the famous physicist who was president of the Royal Society until his death. And some of the gifts were a little bit macabre. I mean, one of them was the death mask, which, as far as I understand, is a mask that is made after you've died, which is maybe not something I'd want, but the president looked very impressed. There was also a lock of Sir Isaac Newton's hair, a telescope, you know, things like that. And then the president went through and gave a keynote speech, and it was kind of all to strengthen ties, showing this kind of science and technology links between Britain and South Korea. So that was the kind of political element of it. And there's a kind of accord going on behind the scenes linked to future deals there. But yeah, it was an interesting morning. And Sophie does seem to be rising with more prominence, doesn't she, Richard? This reflects a piece that Kate Massey wrote for the Mail Online's Royal Channel recently. Well, what Kate was writing about was just sort of the unsung work that Sophie does. And, you know, as we've discussed often on this programme, it's that smaller monarchy that we've got and the bigger roles that are needed for people like Sophie and Edward. And I think King Charles is relying on her more. This was a very important part of the state visit, showing the president round. And the fact that he assigned that to her shows the importance that he values on her contribution, I think. And Rebecca, she wasn't born into it, and I don't know if this is just my imagination, but when I look at her lately, I do think she does seem more confident, more poised. Do you think it's something that she's growing into and becoming more indispensable? Yes, I think Sophie's always been a really solid performer. She was very close to Queen Elizabeth, who really adored her personally, but also had enormous confidence in the public work that she did. But I do feel that it's often been a little overlooked and a little under the radar. And as Richard rightly says, we've discussed on the programme a lot of times, that this smaller monarchy is going to mean that those that are still working are going to have to work that bit harder and that bit more prominently. And one thing I've always really liked about Sophie is the causes that she's embraced. They've always been really brilliant causes in terms of quite out there. Use of sexual violence as a weapon of war, preventable blindness. She gets involved in things a bit like the Queen does, only things that she really wants to get to know inside out and is really passionate about. And I think that comes across in her work, it's very genuine. Have I missed something? Correct me if I have. It just seems like Edward doesn't really have even the same profile as Sophie. Well, he wasn't here at the state visit. Sorry to interrupt. He wasn't here at the state visit because he was abroad on engagement. So that's why he was less visible this week. I think it's partly down to us journalists, really, because we write about people that we think will interest our readers. And you don't tend to get as much feedback on stuff about Prince Edward, I have to say. Which is maybe slightly unfair of us. I did write about him this week wearing a tie with monkeys on it. So I thought that was noteworthy. I should also give him more attention because when I got my Duke of Edinburgh award it was Edward that presented it to me. Did you get gold? I did. Oh, well done you. What did he say to you? Just well done. You can tell he said it, it's a handshake line that they're so good at. I'm now seething with jealousy because I only made it to silver, but never mind. We all do love Sophie at this programme, and we know you do. We've got some beautiful pictures of her engagements this year at the end of the programme. So stick around for that. We also have lots more to discuss before then, including the row over Harry and Meghan's hopes for Christmas at Sandringham. I'm going to take a deep breath. But before all of that, let's turn quickly to a couple of your comments. We had a lot of messages saying just how much you loved the sculptures of the late Queen and Prince Philip made by the artist Poppy Field who was on last week's show. Judith Anne writes, Thank you for sharing the sculptor's presentation about her work. It really made the statues come to life. Something those of us who cannot see them in person appreciate. She captured both people so well. Lots of praise, as always, for Catherine, Princess of Wales. Louis Meyer writes, Catherine understands, accepts and respects the pecking order. She is biding her time when she will be Queen Consort and will uphold the most important royal traditions. And a reminder that you can see more of Poppy's work in a video we released on Monday. On the subject of Prince Harry not being invited to the King's 75th birthday, Mandy Nee has this to say, Inviting Harry to the 75th would betray the privacy of every other guest. Everything would be repeated to Gail and Oprah. I like how Gail gets first bidding on that now. Good old Gail King. Michelle B agreed with what Charlotte Griffiths had to say about Harry on last Thursday's show. I think Charlotte Griffiths was spot on about Harry's opinions not being valued. He's not important in the bigger scheme of things. He's damaged his standing in the public sphere by attacking his family, whining and talking like a fool. He's revealed too much of himself. Thank you for these comments. We love them. We do read them all. Please keep them coming in. Let's bring the panel back now. Rebecca, away from the state visit, if we can tear ourselves away from that, the big royal talking point this week. The prospect of Harry and Meghan joining the royal Christmas at Sandringham. I can't picture it. Tell me, what's this all about? I'm not sure they can picture it either, which is part of the problem. This is a turn up. This emanated for a piece in the Sunday Times at the weekend. It was slightly speculative, but I think it's very much coming from friends of Harry and Meghan saying that they would not be displeased to get an invitation to Christmas at Sandringham or indeed to visit the king at any of his royal residences as part of what they see as trying to bring the two warring parties closer. Every sounding I have taken, no one can tell me 100% whether they're going to be there or not be there. They said plans are fairly much in place now and they don't seem to figure. And we only bought a turkey crown, so sorry Harry and Meghan. But the point was made to me that they felt it would be unlikely anyone would welcome them with open arms. So much water has gone under the bridge over recent years. Trust is still a very big issue. And people have repeatedly made the point to me it's not that the king doesn't want to build bridges with his son. He does at some point, but they feel that it needs to be taken, moves need to be made behind the scenes, baby steps, and trying to involve them in a big public event like Christmas at Sandringham will just seem a little bit false. All the tensions will be on show for the photographers as they walk down to church on Christmas morning. It just doesn't seem to be the right event, I have to say. Yeah, but there's also been reports as well, haven't there, that we can expect a slightly different look to Christmas in Norfolk anyway. Well, there have been reports. I'm not sure how much truth there is in them. I took some soundings again on that and it's a set of circumstances. No one I've spoken to recognised, but the suggestion has been that more of Queen Camilla's family are going to be coming to Sandringham this Christmas and they need to move the table into a different room so they can host more people. The old emergency dining chairs. Well, it happens to us all. Inflatable beds. Yeah, exactly. Harry moaning in the next book about being on the cat bed. Yeah, exactly. It happens to us all. And I think, as I say, I think you might get one or two of her relatives there, but it's not a big thing. Habitually, she's always left Sandringham on Boxing Day to go off and spend Christmas with her own family because she's got a big family of children and grandchildren herself and then she tends to rejoin the King up at Scotland for New Year. And I'm not sure that's massively going to change, I have to say. Richard, I'm fascinated to know what you made of Harry and Meghan. Making it known they would accept an invitation from Sandringham. How does that work? Who actually fires that volley in the first place? Oh my goodness, this is pathetic, isn't it? This reminds me a bit of the school disco, where if you weren't brave enough to ask a girl to dance, you'd say, oh, my mate fancies you or whatever. Is that how you used to do it? I'm sure that never happened to you, Richard. It was that sort of thing. Imagine, we're not hearing directly from Harry and Meghan, we're hearing from friends. One of the funny times was that their friends are putting it out that they really would quite like to be welcomed, invited to Sandringham at Christmas. I mean, come on. This is no way to operate, is it? Perhaps they could invite the King to California or something. But just to do it... We're getting this regular briefing now of what their friends are saying. It seems to be more and more... I don't know if it's because they've got these agents, high-class Hollywood agents. If you want to spend Christmas with your dad, just drop him a text. He doesn't have a mobile phone, so... But, yeah, the normal thing to do would be, it'd be lovely to see you this Christmas, your place or ours kind of thing. But kind of letting it be known through friends, it just really does seem pathetic. And, you know, Natasha, as you wrote at The Weekend, the King's spending more time with Camilla's family recently and seeing more of his own other grandchildren, isn't he? So it's kind of... It's another sort of painfully absent moment, isn't it? Yeah, I think the fact that he's seeing more of the grandchildren of the Prince and Princess of Wales is very much related to this. I mean, having such a painful family estrangement, you know, he's not seen Archie and Lilybear in a very long time. It's got to be linked. But, yeah, the story I reported at The Weekend is that his new routine is now King Charles goes to Windsor on Friday evenings, which means he's just down the road from the Prince and Princess of Wales and can spend more time with his grandchildren, which is something he's really keen to do and, you know, obviously is well-received all round. And it was interesting because insiders were attributing Kate and Camilla for this kind of more time that they're spending together. But I think Prince William has also played a role in it because he told a documentary five years ago that he really wanted, you know, Charles to spend more time with the grandchildren and that was something he was actively working on. And, you know, here we are. It's happened. Rebecca, the Sussexes, though, have nonetheless been quite busy. Yeah, we've seen a lot of them over the last week because they've been in Canada somewhere they've both obviously spent a lot of time in the past. They're out there to drum up publicity for the Invictus Games in 2025, I think. There's like a winter Invictus Games. And we saw Harry on the ice at an ice hockey match dropping the ceremonial puck, which his late grandmother did 20 years before when she was on her Golden Jubilee tour of Canada. So a kind of pseudo-royal moment there. Lots of video of them, you know, standing in the crowd, cheering, drinking wine, dancing. Quite a special place for Meghan as well, isn't it, Canada? I think she spent some of the happiest years of her life there working. It's where she got her big career break on suit. So yeah, I can't help but feel, I don't know what Richard and Tasha feel, but it's all part of this big slow burn of seeing them being more visible ahead of these big projects that Meghan keeps on teasing. Well, Richard, I know you spotted an interesting video from one of Meghan's engagements, didn't you? Well, this was just at the ice hockey match the Vancouver Canucks, hope I pronounced it correctly. Someone will tell you if you haven't. I was watching and it was just a moment captured on the cameras there where Meghan was cheering on the team or whatever. And then she's kind of cheering and then immediately looking at the screen to see if it was recorded. And my goodness, just to me, it was one of those little things that said so much, which is that at the moment Meghan seems desperate to be on camera a lot. She's attending lots of events. It's usually concerts performed or sporting events. It's not really things that she's doing. It's being a spectator. It's quite odd. Well, you've also written in your newsletter this week about how you think she might be realising a little bit more of what she's lost in exiting from the firm. I just think what a week. We've seen the full splendour of the monarchy with the state visit. They really plough it on and Catherine's been looking magnificent. And if Harry and Meghan had stayed it would have been an integral part of that. They would have been waiting for the president of Korea with William and Catherine. Yes, they probably would have been sorry, Sophie, you can stay home. Oh, no, 100%. Sophie wouldn't have done that. That would have been Harry and Meghan as we saw in the past. And instead, we've seen Meghan at a red carpet event in Hollywood. It was an award. Normally these big names they only turn up for events. They're going to be given an award or something. There was nothing there for her particularly but she was just another celebrity on the red carpet. At one point, it was very undignified that someone came along to shove her along the red carpet a bit. She looked like she was pretending it was a friend. It was like, oh, hi. No, no, this was just a woman who was trying to get her to move along because it was the term for someone else probably a bigger celebrity next door like Margot Robbie or someone. So it's very undignified of someone who was a senior member of the royal family. Oh, dear. Well, I don't know what to say to that. I think I'll go and have a look at those videos. Natasha, we have had so much to discuss this week that we haven't even scratched the surface on the TV show, the Netflix series The Crown, but luckily you've got your own show covering that one. Tell us all about it. It's a podcast called The Crown Fact or Fiction, which is pretty self-explanatory really. You can go through and watch each episode which also means if you're not a fan of The Crown you can listen to it without necessarily going through all of the episodes. Also, if you love The Crown and just really want to know what is true and what's not, then it's the podcast for you. It's presented with Robert Hardman who is another male columnist and royal biographer and episodes come out every Thursday. Excellent. And where can we find that? Spotify and Apple. I was looking the other day There's one for TV and film on Apple Music in the UK but also in New Zealand and Estonia. There you go. That's the one to get. I don't think even Blackpink are big in Estonia. Well, there you go. She's not someone who we discuss that often on the programme but given her growing role we might be talking about the Duchess of Edinburgh a lot more and here are some fantastic pictures of just some of the engagements she's been on this year. A year in the life of the Duchess of Edinburgh there. A reminder that if you do enjoy our content remember to subscribe to our channel so you don't miss a thing. I'll see you next time. Bye. Remember to like and subscribe and that way you never need to panic about missing another episode. Thanks to my guests Rebecca, Natasha and Richard and to you always for watching. Goodbye.