Miami Heat: Troubling collapse against undermanned Nets | Five on the Floor

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can hang it up welcome to five on the floor a daily Insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan scholet Greg sander and Alex Toledo plus others from the five reasons Sports Network all right welcome back to five on the floor here's today's floor plan I've got Sea Rochester you can follow at s Rochester NBA and we've got Greg Ander you can follow at Greg sander the Miami Heat lose 109 to 105 to the Brooklyn Nets the heat are now one and4 on the season their only win was a win against rebuilding Detroit tonight they blew a 16-point lead and just made some mystifying decisions down the stretch of this game and the whole injury excuse cannot be used because they were the healthier team today we'll get to that and more as we go forward but first do want to tell you about the rock gamer of the night The RK gamer of the night I don't even know where to go with this guys so I'm gonna take suggestions uh you know I kind of feel like we should give it to Tyler herro because he scored 30 points on 12 of 23 from the floor bamat bio had 21 and 14 but they lost the game I'm looking at this Net's bench and I'm like Trenton Watford Armani Brooks combined for 28 points Lonnie Walker had 17 points they got on a game that they didn't have the Nets did not have three starters and a rotation player they had 45 points from th those three guys 21 from Mel Bridges 217 and five so by default I'm I'm gon to go with just the net Subs here um because that should not happen tonight so we'll we'll share it between Armani Brooks Trenton wadford and Lonnie Walker again combining for 28 45 points tonight um Greg I'll go to you first uh here and again I want I do want to mention Rock orts uh is the place to go I should have mentioned this beforehand but we're a little out of sorts tonight uh rock orts is the place to go for all your gaming needs down in Palmetto Bay and we're going to have our next watch party sl2k tournament coming up I believe on the 16th we'll give you more details as we go forward if you mention five reasons down there you also uh get $ five dollar off the all day play um Greg thoughts on tonight I mentioned you mentioned the rocky Sports gamer of the night and the crazy thing is if you look at a box score if you were a box score Watcher and you just look at Tyler herob bamat bio and Jimmy Butler you think that they would have played well enough just statistically where the heat would have get a get a victory in the circumstance if you just look at that in a vacuum that's concerning that's not um something that I think Heat fans are accustomed to usually if two of those three guys are are playing well you're finishing games and and then just the context of them having a 16-point lead blowing it on your home floor on the heels of playing against a pretty bad Detroit Piston or what projects to be a pretty bad Detroit Piston team and almost coughing that game up now you play this Brooklyn Nets team that some can maybe make a playoff run but let's be serious they're in a transition year they're not a a group that anybody fears to any degree they're a team that's probably going to look to be trading players at the deadline and and looking to gain assets or do whatever transition teams do and you lose to them and to me it's disconcerting because they look out of sorts they look like they were taking turns late and then when you you look at the box score and you see bam had 21 and 14 and Jimmy had 20 and seven and Tyler had 30 how the hell is that not enough to get it done it tells me that there's something that transcends the numbers here that's not going right I don't know exactly what it is maybe the coach Sean Rochester will but this is a bad bad way to start this home stand I said that the 20 game evaluation Mark is I understand that line of thinking and it's been in place for a very long time this is the one year I think if this kind of home stand goes south you got to think about doing something quicker and Sean that's where I'm at with this because it's easy to say Don't Panic heat teams have started slow before some of the best heat teams had slow starts and some of them with h of Fame players had slow starts but you're coming over the hangover of the off season and a game like this you can't blame it on this guy being out they don't have Caleb Martin Josh Richardson Haywood heith working themselves back in although Haywood was good tonight and probably should have played more down the stretch that's something I want to get into with both of you but the other team was missing three starters you're on your home floor there should be a little desperation at this point of the season and you were in control of the game that's the other thing this is a repeat of what happened in the opening night against Detroit the only difference is they got one defensive stop at the end of the game and this time yes there was one call that perhaps could have been overturned I'm not blaming it on that either uh you had the team with more of your core guys than this other team that came in one and two and again didn't have its starting center didn't have its best perimeter shooter in cam Johnson uh and and also didn't have Dennis Smith Jr who was who's a guy that they're counting on to be a defensive uh point guard for them coming off the bench cam Thomas who they've relied on for scoring this year was awful uh four of 19 from the floor two of seven from three one assist because he doesn't look to pass to anybody I don't even know how they lost this game Sean and you forgot Spencer Den witty who also didn't play tonight who would be our uh I mean we would make make trophies or statues of him if he was our point guard right now look I mean we've talked about this I think the problem right now is there are so many holes in the ship that we're plugging one and there's you know water coming in from other places you can look at the offense Alex talked about this yesterday we were so riing on the mid-range um around 45% of our attempts going into this game tonight it was a little lower we leaned a little bit more into threes probably too much into threes I thought we would dominate inside and I I think bam had a fairly good game but without claing in there you got to dominate inside and we just didn't do that turning the ball over the Nets coming into the game had the 30th best rate of turning people over we turn the ball over way more than we should have okay especially early I think we had 12 at halftime it lets those teams back into the game because you're you're not giving yourself a chance to even get shots up the second thing then is defensively so now you know your offense isn't great and we kind of expected that but defense is what we've known you know over the course of 20 years to be great at they consistently would get to the paint get to the rim get get baskets there and if they weren't getting that they were knocking down threes you talked about the guys off the bench how many threes did they get from I mean Brooks had five Walker had one Watford had one and then the starters had another nine in the starting lineup like it's just unacceptable there's so many things that and unfortunately it's on Eric sp's birthday like he's not going to have a happy birthday tonight he's going to be trying to figure out how to plug all these damn holes like it's just so many things right now I don't even know what to point to because there's nothing that I would say is like the one thing in previous Seasons you could say if we just shot the ball better from outside like that was an indicator right now there are so many things that I think are problems I don't even know what you address first and Eric wasn't in a particularly good mood before the game actually uh when he said he didn't want to talk about injuries uh he was very short with reporters we had Alex and Brady down there today Brady was in there for that people took it as a shot at Jimmy I don't believe it was a shot at Jimmy in any way it was uh it just seemed like frustration in general uh with the way things have gone in the early season and so this was kind of a to me a get right home stand like you're playing against a team tonight that is a team that you really should just beat you should handle you're the defending Eastern Conference champions we could talk about them not upgrading in the off season there's enough on this team to take care of the Nets tonight and again they controlled the game and when we get to the play of the night it's going to be hard to pick one because every single guy who was on the floor for the heat down the stretch made mistakes and they made them like sequentially it was like one and then the next and then the next it was like okay my turn to do this I want to before we get to that I want to focus on some of the things that seemed to be going well Greg earlier in the game that there were some like like green shoots here and that's why this is so disappointing that they let this thing get away spoler first makes the decision to start haime haak as he does not shoot the ball particularly well Kevin Love was not available tonight so hak has played opportunity for him hak did not shoot well but I thought he did kind of what SPO wanted him to do which is he forced the action a little bit the pace was better early in the game Jimmy was more engaged than he's been in the in the previous uh two games uh for sure that he played and you know I I I you know I you take a look at some of the others bam okay I thought had a lot of effective moments uh throughout the game getting to his turnaround the drop step creating space for himself and Tyler scored efficiently tonight there were times that I was like Tyler should have maybe looked at somebody who was wide open calling for the ball like Duncan there were a couple of times that that happened but again Tyler was giving you offense you know with efficient numbers Haywood heith comes back makes an immediate impact and you can see where they've missed him and missed you know him as an additional Wing who can guard uh pulled up and made a 28-footer there were good things that happened tonight right even I thought Kyle had some pretty decent moment Thomas Bryant was active so it's not like it's all awful and then all of a sudden it is and the Nets look like the more poised team down the stretch and that's I that I don't understand why do the heat look so disconnected when it matters the only time that it's looked like they they've been connected was when they were already down like 20 points uh you know to Milwaukee and there was you know just and SPO just threw a lineup out there and it worked um but again there was no pressure at that point of the game why does a team that went to the Eastern Conference Finals went to the finals uh the past two seasons look like they don't know each other down the stretch so do you want to talk about in basketball terms against the Brooklyn Nets tonight or do you want me to just cut the and get right to the chase go to it they look like a team that's tired of being around each other they look like a tired that's they they they look like a team that is tired of one another maybe not because they dislike one another but because sometimes groups just run their course and I hate to say that this early in the season I'll probably get clipped for this and people will come back and laugh at me and you know what that's fine I'm just saying that tonight on November the 1 when they played the Brooklyn Nets at home there's just a degree of disconnected play down the stretch there and then the the games that have taken place already where it just looks like the team I I I don't know I don't know that they have enough and I hate to say that it's just a situation where with the percent of cap that Duncan Robinson and Kyle Lowry take up to what what production they bring they're they're not playing connected enough to offset that in my in you know by my standard I I think that there's probably something to having Caleb back there's something to having the entire rotation like I understand all of those factors but they don't have a lead guard they don't have a guy that can get them settled late in games unless they're just gonna go Jimmy herro ball so there's just something there that's missing Sean you had something to add to that yeah Greg and I talked about this before we started it seems at times like the ball it's not flowing together and that's what you're talking about right if you're visually looking for a team that likes to play together you see the ball moving and action and cutting and things like that I really want to see tomorrow Cooper one of those guys that has access to Second Spectrum when the ball touches one side of the floor whether you're playing Middle School basketball or NBA basketball generally speaking you're not getting a high percentage shot how many times especially late one pass one shot that Jimmy shot that was late a three that he kind of caught the ball high and it looked very awkward Josh had one too when the ball goes side to side where it touches the paint usually you have better shots and I want to see the data on that hopefully tomorrow I'll obviously tag it if we can find it but it's just not productive basketball the way that things are working out and I cannot think that spola is very happy with how the offense looks all right we're GNA talk now about the play of the night and I'm going to give you guys some time to think about this one because there are four or five or six different candidates for this there's only one candidate though to get your life insurance your health uh excuse me your life insurance your renters insurance your homeowners insurance all that kind of stuff and especially your your car insurance go to our friend Lynette she's also one of our best posters on Discord on playback which we did tonight as well insurance by lan.com a Aggressive Insurance Lynette if you don't have a good driving record trust me she's the person to get to she will absolutely find you the best possible uh driver's insurance that you can possibly get best car insurance that you can get so reach out to her at insurance by lan.com that's the play that you need to make there were plays that the heat needed to make tonight and they didn't make them on four or five consecutive possessions which is the one that stands out the most to you guys was it Jimmy deciding to take a three when he was off balance sort of looking the wrong way during during a game that I I thought he was more engaged than in all the other games was it that Tyler layup thing that happened on a game he scored 30 was it that shot that bam had that that I don't did that even graze the rim was it any of the stuff that Jay Rich did down the stretch he was in there instead of I thought maybe High Smith should have been playing some of those minutes or was it something Kyle did because I can't remember Kyle settling them even one time as things were falling apart wh which which of them had the play of the night for you Greg because I thought all five of them kind of defined this loss in the last few minutes I'm gonna go with eight 38 left Trenton wadford made a 24 foot threp pointer from the left corner to put the Nets up 8986 was assisted by Royce O'Neal I don't even have the guts tonight to pick one of the plays that you threw up there and lob thank you for lobing me multiple options I think we need Trenton wadford needs to get called out on this podcast because he was was the random scrub heat killer of the night Sean I you going with Trenton Watford who I was not even familiar with his game as Shaq would say in those memes that you get on Twitter uh or or is it somebody on the heat that did something late that stands out I thought the Jimmy steel was GNA be the play of the night I think Greg I sent that one to you right like it looked like they were getting that thing back under control uh which one do you choose are we going for a positive play or a negative play can we have a positive play on a night that they dropped to one and four losing to a team at home without three starters and a rotation player how about this positive play the the offensive rebound bam grabbed in traffic with one hand then got the n one after it yes my favorite play of the night the negative one that you didn't introduce when we closed out to whoever the shooter was in the right corner Lowry didn't box out on the backside and got an and one on Mel Bridges and I think the game was tied at that point that was the turning point in my mind it's sad that we have so much evidence of bad play within a matter of like four minutes in the fourth quarter it's ter it went so South things were so good Ethan like this was a turn around game and it's so it shows you how quickly things change in the NBA but something needs to change quickly the other direction now I I think that's where we're all at I mean the three of us are three of the more optimistic people in our heat group at the network and and I just think we've all got bad vibes off what's started this season they've got one win and it's against a team that's going to win 25 games that win was more challenging than it should have been they go into Boston and their best player looks like he doesn't want to be there against Minnesota their best player doesn't play and that game got out of control in ways it shouldn't have late they they were within a Duncan Robinson 3 of tying it and then there was a 161 one run the other direction Milwaukee was not competitive let let's I mean the fourth quarter again was a scramble the buckser still learning each other a little bit they kept the starters in credit to the hero J Rich uh yic group that made an impact late but I mean come on I I don't think we ever thought made it look closer than it was it made it look closer than it was and then you're home against the team and again you have control against this team and then you completely fall apart and I think there some hard questions are going to start to get asked here and and you know you you were talking about some of them on playback Greg but you know we talk about a closing lineup right and I think we all thought okay maybe Josh Richardson can be in a closing lineup but then you sort of remembering some of the decision- making from his previous stint yeah and that cropped up tonight they don't get enough from the point guard position they just don't and I you know it's it's not even like Kyle being bad it's just there's not enough good like there's and and I was saying on playback tonight when they were bading we were a little bit more optimistic I'm like it almost feels like they just got that one piece to settle everybody down you know somebody who could be impactful from that spot it doesn't have to be an elite player but like our guy Gad cardana was on there saying like even a Spencer Den witty on the heat like it feels like that would make a dramatic difference and everybody could kind of settle into their roles but I don't know that that trade is coming and that's concerning also because you know you you have again you're like okay this is the guy who's supposed to settle you down but he the ball's not in Kyle's hands to settle anybody down at the end of it and when we're kind of celebrating like Jimmy giving a b performance tonight it's not good it's it's just not enough I I loved what I've seen from bam so far this season um you know again a couple of mistakes late but overall i' I've liked what I've seen from him and Tyler has shown growth in a number of different areas but it's it's not and I'm not going to blame this on him it's it's not leading to anything right now and they have a lot of playable players but they don't seem to have a lot of playable players that look like again they're connected uh in basketball terms or even passionate together on the court and that's that's an issue right it's not heat likee and and and and I think because we saw them kind of you know drift through the whole regular season last year and come within three minutes of missing the Playoffs entirely you were hopeful that they would prove people wrong here early in the year jump out of the gate and it just hasn't happened all right one more thing we want to get to tonight and then I think it's going to lead to a a good disco discussion to close our injury report sponsored by our friend Eric Rubenstein the personal injury attorney that represents here at the five reason Sports Network go to Eric Rubenstein doccom went to St Thomas University Magna kamady uh and also uh grew up in Lauder Hill he's a South Florida guy huge Miami Heat fan but the most important thing is something happens to you he will get you your money so go to Eric Rubenstein decom or ask about me I got you on Instagram injury report tonight Kevin Love sat um not expected to be anything serious going forward of course Jimmy Butler was on the injury Port uh with a knee issue that he's had before but I thought he looked active tonight I didn't think that he looked limited by the knee in any way Caleb Martin continues to be out with the knee he had been making progress then he played he hasn't played since Heywood heith returned early he was supposed to be reevaluated in two weeks we didn't even get to two weeks he was back on the floor and that's where I want to go with this with you guys tonight um I think Haywood heis Smith is going to end up being a starter for this team and I don't think it's G to take too long and I was surprised and I was your thoughts on this Sean that he didn't play down the stretch tonight because I I thought he was good and they couldn't box out that was a huge problem late in the game there were we didn't even get to some of these Jimmy was not boxing out late in the game Kyle was in the wrong position as he tends to be but again I don't blame him for this one because it's always these switches but he was there was he didn't box out bridges on on a key play late in the game he and Jimmy both um I thought having heith out there just for all the little things that he was doing earlier I might have had him out there instead of Kyle or Josh either one honestly did you think he should have played down the stretch yeah I mean especially late when you're going to have the ball in Jimmy bam and Tyler's hands most of the time the the idea behind Kyle Lowry I hate to say his his job because it doesn't seem to be his job actually right now is to settle the offense and the other three guys are going to be the ones doing that so you know I I don't know if Haywood would have been the solution but he seems to be calm he seems to be in control of his role he shot the ball fairly well tonight um I I agree with you about starting I think he's going to be maybe the long-term solution um but then what do you do with love I mean he can't close either right so he's going to play small minutes here and there in the in the middle of the second and third quarters I mean it's it's going to be an interesting equation to see how SPO figures out those two plus haime plus yic I guess we'll throw him out there not that I agree with that but who is going to who's going to form this rotation Greg should he have played the stretch I mean I I think maybe in the place of Josh if I was going to go anywhere there I I also think Kyle like they're I'm done with him finishing games I'm sorry there's just not enough there uh so ultimately maybe Josh sticks and and Haywood heith comes in for him I think they're easing him back into a degree I think you're going to see Haywood heith eventually start I think that the more they lose the more spoler is going to get pretty Cutthroat about making those changes you could see Josh and Haywood heith all of a sudden start spos done that before where he's flipped stuff up so I wouldn't be surprised if they start looking at that kind of stuff just because like what else are they going to do right like they they to keep trotting out the same lineup I think is a little bit crazy and heith will start closing I think that tonight they just went in a different direction um but I think ultimately what you're going to to SPO trust Haywood heith in a way where he's going to get consistent minutes if he's healthy he's going to play yeah it looks like SPO was trying to find a jolt from someone tonight and that I think played into the hakz starting because you know the one thing about haime is he may Force the action sometimes it's clear already like he has a certain confidence in himself and I did think he forced some shots early but I also thought he competed defensively uh tonight he made some good reads there needs to be some stuff cleaned up obviously he's a rookie playing in what his fourth or fifth game at this point but I understood the reasoning behind it and putting him out there instead of SE yovic who might have sort of settled into things more and looks like he's trying to kind of pick his spots and figure out where he fits haime doesn't care it doesn't seem and I I say that as a compliment like it just he just goes that's it and it also seems like they have confidence in him because they kept passing him the ball even when he was missing okay and even when they had some some looks but I think ultimately looking at love looking at hakz looking at yic looking at their other options it's going to end up being high Smith at the four it be and and I think a couple reasons one you can trust him two he's clearly improved there's no question I mean with a shot a and the other thing is if they ever do have their full compliment of players the idea of bringing heith Richardson and Morton All Off the Bench does not make a lot of sense you've got three guys with somewhat overlapping skill sets three good Defenders and I did think tonight one of the things spoler did was he ran that lineup twice with Kyle and four plus Defenders bam uh bam Jimmy uh was high Smith and Josh right I think that was the group they were talking about and they ran that group TS they had more success one time than the other time but I think spoler has a roster where he he doesn't have to have more than sort of one subpar defender on the floor at a time in most cases but to bring three wing Defenders off the bench together when the starting lineup is challenged in that way I think SPO is gonna lean if he's if he's gonna continue to start Kyle which I don't necessarily agree with but if he's gonna continue to start Kyle I think he's got to start and he wants to keep Caleb when Caleb comes back in a role where he can be more of a featured scorer and sort of be a swis army knife Off the Bench then it makes sense to start Haywood I I just and I I think that I don't think I'm saying something that spoler doesn't realize because I I think that's the direction that this is going to go you know with Haywood you're going to get effort and he's gonna be in the right place and at this point you just need guys you can trust Sean that's that's the way I view it yeah and to that closing point it's basically your three main guys and then whoever between Josh Haywood and Caleb two of those three that are playing the best and if I guess if you needed shooting if you were trailing when you were closing and you needed Duncan out there right he could be an option it's very situationally dependent but I like the versatility of that group with their defensive you know uh inclination the way that they can switch they can play multiple positions you got a lot of guys that can handle it's a good closing group but you also got to get the good stuff out of those top three guys too and tonight you didn't because we just went through a list of how you know like the fumbling plays and bad shots those are the guys that got to take you to the Finish Line all right guys let's close with this and again we thank our sponsors uh insurance by lin.com Rock Esports Center in Palmetto Bay and our friend Eric Rubenstein personal injury attorney where are we at the Panic meter now because we've done a couple of these episodes but now at 1 and4 Washington's coming in for the first game of this inseason tournament which I still don't understand on Friday night but I thought this was a home stand that honestly to feel good you had to sweep it honestly like you had to sweep it or at least put yourself in position where the Laker game on Monday night if you didn't end up sweeping okay maybe you would lose to the Lakers if LeBron or ad has one of those nights but at least you come out of this thing two and one and you know now it's crazy to say a must-win game uh when we just hit the beginning of November but if they lose to Washington on the way Washington looks if they lose to Washington on Friday night oh boy um where's your Panic meter at this point Greg Panic meter is at a 3.05 out of 10 but ascending in Fast and I say that because you're right this home stand is it and I also just it's not about the fact that they lose it's how they look when they lose it's how like tonight in particular there's a part of like seeing that bam Tyler and Jimmy had their individual moments but it doesn't collectively lead to a win that's concerning to me and to see other things go right and to see them pull together you know a coherent night on the boards in comparison to Brooklyn and still come up short to lose leads they've done it to Detroit they've done it to Brooklyn now the good teams they just felt like they didn't have quite enough coming off that off season there's a lot of context in the involved here but it doesn't equal Good Vibes and I think that there's one thing that you can't find in a box score and right now that's what's missing from this Heat team Vibes Sean higher than 3.05 out of 10 that was crazy you got to pick an area code that's how this works you got to pick an area code so so give give me an area code 9.54 954 I'm sounding all alarms that's where I live that's where I'm at right now Greg that's where I was going Sean you don't live in 215 anymore do you I do live in 215 yeah tough tough tough uh for the late night economy around here lately with the Los James but um no i' say I'm somewhere in the three or four it's it's one of those things where if you can't take care of Washington the worst defense in the league if our offense can't shine against them we are in trouble uh then I will really start sounding alarms but they got to do something you got to figure it out in the locker room first and then you know the front office should be looking for options elsewhere if that can't get solved all right I gotta pick an area code all right 305 um I feel like this Price is Right highest going over you know closest without going over uh too much and I am going to go over 305 actually I'm not going to get quite to 786 or 954 I think I'll leave those two alone I don't know about 561 I I you might you might convince me on 561 but for right now I'll just say 407 how about we do that so I'll give you I'll give you an Orlando area code I'm concerned honestly I am concerned I I I know everyone's gonna say Ethan you've covered this damn team since like prehistoric era and all this you've seen this story before youve seen us start 11 and 30 and go 30 and 11 and you've seen them one game over 500 and the coach gets fired and they end up winning the championship in 06 and seeing him nine and eight and the first year with LeBron and they got to the finals you know before LeBron stopped playing uh and so yeah we've seen all this before we've seen them only four games over 500 and then Chris Bosch goes out for the season and somehow you know they were win a game in Eastern Conference Championship in 2016 so yes we have seen this before but it comes off a really frustrating disappointing summer and they needed to get off to a good start they just did and and now now there's some a lot of toxicity in the fan base you just hope that there's not going to be any toxicity in the locker room the the leaders of this team bam out of Bio we didn't get a chance to talk about this today maybe we will tomorrow on the off day he's captain of this team now and you know this is his first test as Captain you know when I talked to Bam about the possibility of being Captain uh at training camp and he said well there's only a couple options here and he kind of smiled and I said do you want the responsibility if they give it to you and he says I'll take it and I was like but you're a nice guy sometimes it's not so easy for a nice guy to get in people's faces UD is a nice guy but UD had a streak we all know where he could be not so nice guy if he if if that was required it's the first test of the BAM out of Bio era in that sense in terms of being the leader of this team got to find a way to pull these guys together and get them on the same page Eris Boler has pieces to work with but he's got to have hearts and Minds too the pieces are not enough and when it's stuff started to fall apart tonight nobody pulled them together it just was and it it wasn't one guy I don't want to pin it on one guy all five that were on the floor in the last few minutes of this game cough that thing up all of them all of them Tyler was Tyler and Bam were their best players tonight I thought overall um and Jimmy was better than he's been but everybody who was on the floor at the end of that game played a role in this and it's it's ugly start to the season all right thanks to Sean thanks to Greg we will try to be more optimistic in the future we got at least 77 more of these postgame podcast to do uh we'll see how many we go beyond that have a good night everybody thank you for listening to the five on the floor on the fire Vis Sports Network