Arsenal Beat City, Onana's Shaky Start & Rooney Returns _ Stick to Football EP 3

If we're going to win the league, as Sam said, you're going to have to beat City. Grealish and these other lads have done stuff for Pep. Phillips has really done nothing for Pep. Post-Peter, before Vedwin van der Sar, we had obviously Mark Bosnitz, Fabian Barthez, then we had Roy Carroll and Tim Howard, we had Ricciardo, we had Massimo Taibbi. I think we speak more about refereeing decisions now, whereas in the past, yeah, you wouldn't get one one week, then you'd get one the next. I hate that. How casual are people? I think that was a bit of a surprise to me. Yeah, all right, Jim, yeah, I'll have a look. Oh, right, what is it? Oh, Dave, yeah. What, Dave? No, sorry, Dave, sorry. Eden Hazard has just announced his retirement. I think he was one of the best players I've ever seen in the Premier League. There's no expectation on him. How can there not be an expectation on him? Cos Spurs have done nothing for 20-*******-years, actually. Are we ready? Yeah. Yeah, let's go. Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Stick To Football. It's brought to you by Skyber, and I'm joined by Ian Wright, Roy Keane, Jill Scott and Jamie Carragher. You're already annoyed with me this morning, aren't you, with my parking? Yeah, you took up three spaces. Anyone... Did you see his parking? No, but I couldn't get a space, so that's probably why. You couldn't get a space this morning? It's packed out there, to be fair. But, Jill, you've been in South Africa. Yep, I have. So our campaign that we did went well. Did you not get the call? I went to South Africa for the whole week, all paid for. It was amazing. By who? Heineken. You know, after our campaign. What was the campaign? We swapped Twitter feeds for three or four days. Jill was panicking for a few days when I was tweeting out on her account and she was tweeting out on my account, and it was like a... To prove the sort of abuse that Jill would get over my account, and I think she got a paid holiday out of it, I don't know. It must have went well for me, maybe. Carragher, you've been doing a little fringe event for the Labour Party, haven't you, with Wes Streeting? Oh, yeah, yeah, I didn't know that was going to come up. Yeah, I've just got to ask him a few questions because the Labour conference is in Liverpool. Are you heavily involved in that? When's your speech? No, no, no, I'm not. Last year I was on stage, not this year, not this year. No, so I asked him a little bit of a Q&A for charity, he was trying to raise a few quid, so I think we did that. And why are you not involved? I just thought it'd be better to sit back this year. I was too heavily involved in politics last year. And you're a changed man. Changed man. Stick to football. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stick to football. And last night I was... You had a go at me, by the way. Did you have a little dinner last night? I was on my own last night at home. Who's talking about? A little birdie tells me you had a little dinner last night. No. Did you get an invite to the dinner? It wasn't. We just came up and I just went out, had some toast at Roy's, watched Burton and Cambridge and just had a... You know what I mean? I'm not going to just come up and not see my guys. It wasn't a dinner, was it? It wasn't a dinner. What were you eating? And we weren't together for tea. Toast! What were you eating? Tea. Tea and toast. For tea? No, I'd already had my tea, this was about... Yeah. He was late as usual. I wasn't late. Do you realise how blessed you are to get an invite to his house? No, I didn't get any. I just went. I just went to the house. Were you turned up? Yeah. What, he didn't... What's he going to do? You don't just turn up anymore and ring the doorbell, do you? You text them, you check them in. Of course, yeah. No one ever does that anymore, do they? No, you're right, yeah. Just knock on the door and say, oh, hey, are you okay? You can't knock on his door. He's got a big gate. Have you been to my house? You've been to my house? No! It's a very nice place. You know what, you get a Joslyn thing, you get the most unbelievable smoothie. It's a beautiful... Smoothie? Yeah, yeah. What, like upon arrival? You get a smoothie off Theresa. I didn't get a smoothie off Theresa. No, you don't have a smoothie. It's too late. It's too late for a smoothie. It's tea and toast. Evening. It's just... Smoothies in the morning. Yeah. You have a smoothie in the morning. Did you stay over? Huh? Did you stay over? I didn't stay over. It was just like... Steady on. Come on. Me and Roscoe, behind his back, we were saying... You know what I mean? Because he wouldn't let us leave. No, because to be fair, we get his hotel bill in Manchester. It's a pretty expensive one as well. He won't stay at my hotel. You've got to put him locally, though. But you're staying at Stock Exchange? Just put him in there. Put him down here. Put me in the middle of the Stock Exchange. No, he's got high demands. Where do you like staying? I stay anywhere where they put me. I don't even know. It's a lie, that. They ask me. I don't know this place. This isn't my gaff. Manchester. You've got all the top eight hotels in Manchester, haven't you? What's the new one you've just opened up? Stock Exchange, yeah. I bet that's cheapest. No wonder you haven't got the Labour conference. Right, let's move on to football. Arsenal and Manchester City. Where were we at with it? Does it change your mind, Roy, in terms of where you were at the start of the season around City? No. No, I still think it was probably the worst I've seen City play. Definitely, obviously, having a difficult spell. Poor game. Listen, Arsenal just hung in there and maybe just about deserved it. Cagey game. Cagey game, yeah. I thought it was really poor quality. It was edgy. But I wouldn't be certainly writing Man City off. When you look at the two league games last year, obviously, Man City were so far ahead. So, yeah, definitely progress for Arsenal. But I wouldn't change my mind in terms of who I think will win the league. I'd stick with City. Does it change your mind on Arsenal a little bit? A little bit, yeah. You were talking about getting over the line. Yeah, of course. They got over the line, didn't they? Well, you look at the last couple of times they've played, obviously, I'm going back to the community shield. Okay, that's the community shield. Classes are friendly, whatever. But, you know, they won that game. They've won this one. So that will only give Arsenal that bit of confidence and belief. And they won it without Saka. All along, we've seen Saka's a huge player for them. City are missing lots of players. When we're dealing with 12 games. The one thing, I think we've done a few years ago, we've done City and United, Old Trafford and the Derby, and we kind of wrote City off. If you remember, we thought, have they lost the Eidetiger? You know, there was a couple of new players came in. And I'll never make that mistake again. You can't write off the fact that not beating them for, like, they've beaten us in 12 games. This is why even afterwards, like, they'll bust up and that. You can feel that. You want that. That's good. Because all of a sudden, you've got City who are not used to losing, and Arsenal who have beaten City. You know, so that busts up, and then you've got the fella who used to be at City. He didn't want to shake hands the last couple of times. Now he obviously wants to shake hands. But, like, I like the fact that, like, the changes what Mikel made at the end, because we have to beat them. If we're going to win the league, as Sam said, you're going to have to beat City. So, I know that the game was cagey. He was talking about it, James. I didn't think it was great. I thought he was very defensive. I thought the midfield, you know, City's midfield without Rodri, obviously it's going to be a massive miss for him. But, like, having Bernardo Silva, Rico Lewis doing that kind of pivot role, and then Kovacic there, and you just think, well, why don't you play Calvin Phillips in this particular role? He's a specialist. He doesn't trust him, righty? He doesn't trust him. It doesn't make sense. Has he had a chance? Has he had a couple of chances? He played a few weeks ago. People are saying he's not getting him any runners. How do you know he doesn't trust him? Because he didn't play him in a big game with all the injuries. I haven't even seen him playing games. He played at Newcastle. He played at Newcastle two or three weeks ago in the cup game. What did he do wrong? Well, he didn't do too much good. He didn't do enough, righty? You've got to win the manager's trust over. I'm not saying... He's not playing often enough to try and... But he watches him every day. There's a reason why he's not playing him. He doesn't trust him. Yeah, but you've got to watch him in games in the situation so as he can get the trust. But he watched him against Newcastle a few weeks ago. He watched him against Newcastle two weeks ago. Two weeks on a cup match. And he obviously went, I don't like what I see. So when he got to the Arsenal game, he said, I don't trust you. He doesn't believe he can do a job for him. I think for City, that Holden midfield role is the most important part of the game for them. Obviously in terms of detail and everything else. And I think with Calvin Phillips, he needs games to get used to it. Like for City, if you get rid of that player, it's the most important role. Everything goes through them. Silva, then Ford and start a drop. And then I think you lose there. But the few opportunities he's had, I don't think he's stuck. I've seen him come on a few games and he lacks a daisy. He doesn't like him, does he? And that's fine. I think it's clearly the manager. At this moment in time, unless something drastically happens, he's the question mark. I think the thing that sort of stood out for me, I thought Arsenal would win the game going into it. But I didn't think they'd win it how they won it. Because I think the brilliant thing that Arsenal got going under Artesa is there's an atmosphere in there. There's an energy to pace them. And I thought City are not at their best. I thought Arsenal would be all guns firing. But they almost won it a different way. And it probably impressed me more. Because when you think of Arsenal, you think at the back, could they do something silly, give a goal away? It was that solidity that they had in the game. But what I'd also say to almost temper it is that I think if City would have won this game, we'd have probably all said even at this stage, the league's done. Even if the points weren't massive, you just think. But now I just think it gives people belief, or certainly Arsenal belief, that you can be in the race. You can challenge them. But the big difference with last season, City had to beat Arsenal in the two games that they played because of where they came in the calendar. I think one was just after Christmas, maybe January, and then there was one later in the season. This felt different. I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but I just think... Well, you think it's played too early for it to make a... I think both teams were almost happy with the draw, and they weren't going for the win. No, James, I think that the way... No, what I'm saying is, I think if City really needed to, like they did last season... There's another level for that team. With that team, with that midfield, it didn't seem like it, that midfield... Oh, no, they're missing players, of course, but they will come back. But I just, I still think City had still a level. Haaland didn't have a shot on goal. I think it's the fewest shots that City had in a game for 13 years. And Jack Grealish still couldn't get off the bench. Why is Jack Grealish not being able to get off the bench? Because I said on Sunday after the game, Mahrez was a deliverer for Haaland. De Bruyne obviously is, but he's injured. And so Grealish is from the left-hand side. What's happened there? Does he not fancy him at the moment either? I don't think they feel like he's found his form this season because he played against Newcastle, didn't he? And he didn't have a great game, but yeah, Haaland wasn't involved at all. And I think they're really missing De Bruyne, like missing him so bad. I think he's a massive void and they've said, can Foden come in and fill that space? But I just think De Bruyne, he doesn't get the, obviously he's one of the best players of the Premier League, but I think when you take him out of that team, but yeah, Grealish just doesn't seem to be getting a look in. Pep plays games, doesn't he? Pep does this once a year with certain players, he leaves them out, where we're all questioning. Remember, I think he left De Bruyne out last year at Spurs, and after the game, and he's done it with Kyle Walker, he's done it with Stones, we're all going, why is he leaving him out, Maurice? I think he plays these games with certain players and Jax. Jax had a good summer. It's well documented. No, he is. So Pep will be looking at Haaland going, and he's picked up a little injury and he's going, you just have to wait. Well, he seems to be playing a long game with Calvin Phillips. When we, you know what I mean? It's like, we know- Phillips is greedish, and these other lads have done stuff for Pep. Phillips has really done nothing for Pep yet. Whether he's seen him in training, whether he doesn't like him or not, or whatever he's seen, I don't think he's had the games to really let, to play and impress himself upon him. It's just like, is he judging him purely on training and a couple of games? I know, I'm a little bit with Roy, and the reason I say that is that, I just think if I was in that position, and a manager wasn't picking me, I think I'd be treating training like a game, almost every day, making it- Surely trains well, Calvin? I'm not saying he doesn't, what I'm saying is, we all give 100% in training, but we know there's times in our careers where you feel like, I've got something to show you, or maybe a new player's coming, and it's like, you're training like it's a game. I was like that a lot. With Pep, I don't think it'll be a lack of understanding of the position, rather than a lack of effort. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But anything, whatever it is, he's got to make sure he's in the manager's face, and the manager almost feels like, I had situations at Liverpool where, it felt like every season, I was getting replaced by a new player coming in in my position, and I'd be like a lunatic every day, thinking, I've got to be better than him in training. And I just think that, I'm not saying he's not, I don't know Calvin Phillips at all. Yeah, I think he probably would be- The point is, make sure you're noticed every day and time, whether it's your voice, your loud, you're leaving a tackling on someone, you're going to speak to the manager, okay, I don't understand the position, explain it to me. I always think you've got a training player, with a manager, you don't give the manager an option of either you. Exactly. The way Calvin Phillips plays, he's not one of those chasing around the place, ah, he's very, no, no, no, no, no, he's a calm, he breaks things up, crazy. What do you want him to do? Are we seriously saying here that with City, obviously we all- Why did they buy him? I'd asked him to win the league at the start of the season, but most people go sitting out and be surprised if it was City. But are we saying if Rodri is injured, for any amount of time, that City don't win the league? Is that what we're saying, that they can't without him? Oh, he'd be an absolutely huge loss, yeah. Obviously, your mindset changes, if someone says Rodri's going to be up for a while, a bit like De Bruyne, but you said that about somebody else, you could say that about lots of teams, but Rodri, you talk about Haal and then De Bruyne, but looking at Rodri, now we kind of, somebody just confirms when he's not available, you go, the most important player, you think? Yeah, I think so. In that system. Without the two best midfield players in the league, Rodri and De Bruyne, so imagine Arsenal without Teclan Rice and Odegaard, I mean, you know, so I think, you know, once they're back, I still think there's a leveled City around that, the other teams. I think it was a good time for City to lose if they're going to lose. I do agree with Wrighty, though. I think that position, I think if Phillips had a run of five, six games in that position, he'd learn so much. No, I do, I do. More toast for me when you start. Have you got the same age in? No, but he's changed his game so much from Leeds to City, the amount of technical detail. But that's what you do when you change clubs. I remember Mourinho saying something, and we talk about young players, it was about young players getting a chance, and I always say this about, especially in big clubs coming through, you can't expect a manager to give you five or six games. It's like you might get one or two. You've got to show the manager that he can trust you. And every day is a training session. I remember Mourinho saying about he doesn't give young players a chance. Well, they get a chance in training. You've got to, and it might be being a little bit harsh on Calvin Phillips here. I've never moved club. I've never gone into a new dressing room. But I just think you've just got to grab it by the scruff of the neck. And I think probably too often when I've seen players come into Liverpool, maybe at your clubs as well, you'd actually think they've got the talent, but they haven't actually got the personality to actually impose themselves. Because this dressing room is treble, where there's great players, it's a bit like... Jamie, I left Forest, I went to Man United. Man United just won the league. I'm going to a dressing room, Insi, Brian Robson, brilliant players, brilliant characters, the usual stuff. I can't go in there and just do what I was doing at Forest. I have to go to make an impression. Yeah. From pre-season to the Charter Shield, the first few games you go, I've got to put a marker down. Yeah. Or otherwise I will be that, oh, you'll be the fringe player for 12 months. No, I don't want to be a fringe player. Just one thing about Arsenal. I've watched Arsenal in big games this season, against Tottenham and against City. And look, they've both been difficult games. Tottenham are in good form, and obviously City are City, and they don't give a lot away. Nketiah and Jesus, there's talk this morning of Tony being linked with Arsenal in January. Right, I'm going to come to you, because obviously your position at Arsenal, how you played. There's no doubt Nketiah and Jesus, they worked their absolute socks off. But in quality terms, I just found in those two matches, is that going to be enough to win Arsenal the league? That's my only doubt, is actually a centre-forward. Because if they'd have the centre-forward, like if they had Haaland, if they had Kane, I'd be saying it's Arsenal, I think, if they can keep Saliba and Gabriel and Reis fit. But honestly, I worry about Nketiah and Jesus. They're erratic. You know the thing with the way we're playing, obviously we've spread the goals out last season. And yes, it took us to a certain place. I don't think the Tony links will go away, because it's blatantly obvious for everyone to see that with that focal point and that player that scores that, then that takes you somewhere else. You can't question the endeavour of both of these players. No, you can't. Eddie and Jesus. But in the moments, I think you look back at the Tottenham game with the Jesus. That, for a player of his level, his calibre, to get into that position, one nil up, against Tottenham, you have to, those chances have to be buried. And I believe that Arsenal, in what we're trying to do now, you cannot afford, the margins are so small now, you cannot afford to be missing chances and not winning those games. And what I'm seeing with Eddie, Eddie's working his socks off. No chances really made for him. He had one shot that went wide. But the work off the ball, fantastic. Same with Jesus. But yes, the Tony links don't go away, because you can see that it's probably the last bit for me in the jigsaw. And he's been clinical, hasn't he? Yeah. Ruthless and clinical. Well, the thing is, we're seeing that he's, it's blatantly obvious for everyone to see that that would probably be the last piece. But I think if it's gonna be, he'll do it. If it can be done. We agree. He'll do it. I think what Arsenal had last season, we were fortunate, or you can say it's good, good from the medical staff. I think they had the team that played, their best team played more times than probably anyone else's best team. You'd always think Saka, Martinelli, Jesus was obviously injured at times as well. They're probably not gonna have that this season. When you see that as the backup, I still think if they were going to win the league, they'd have to do something in January. I do, because that won't win you the league. I mean, the great lads, they work their socks off, especially Nketiah. Jesus, I do really like. But when I looked at that, to actually win with that front three against Man City, you probably couldn't win by playing your normal game and having lots of chances and scoring goals. It had to be about being solid. But Martinelli had to come on, didn't he? Yeah, he had to come on. And listen, it's a fortune. It doesn't matter how you win, you won the game. But I do look at that and you think of the Tony situation. I do think he's a quality centre forward. But then he's coming to your club in January having not played for a number of months. Yeah. That's not ideal either. But when you say about work rate and work ethic, ultimately, they have to score goals. You can say about Haaland's hold up play and everything else. Why do we speak about them? Because of the goals they score? They're not wired, are they, to score goals naturally. Instinctively, they don't make the runs that you see goal scorers make. They hold back. They're always looking for the pullback. They're never getting across players. And I just look at Jesus, he is quite erratic in front of the goal. The work ethic of both of them is brilliant. I just question, at that level, can they win the league without another striker? What you need is, when the game's a cagey like that game was, you need somebody that, you know what, he hasn't had a touch or game. But we know that if he gets out the chance, Harry Kane, if he gets out the chance, he's gonna score. And then, bam, you win the game 1-0. You say, we didn't play great, but that's what we've got, that strike. I was expecting Haaland to score the winner, to be honest with you. But this is the thing with Haaland. If you're not afraid of the fact that, at some stage, they're gonna click, something's gonna go right. And this is why I was very surprised with City that he didn't. I thought Saliba and Gabriel Marguez dealt with him very well, but he didn't have the kind of service where he could cause them a problem. So when you're talking about him running next to them, they had the physicality, they were able to see him off. He didn't have that much, like, for me, support in what he was doing. He didn't have to link up the play very well. I thought they'd done very well against him, but he's still, in the game, petrified if he gets off the chance. That's what we need up front. Can Arsenal win the league, and do they need to sign a striker? Can win the league, yeah. They would never need that striker, I think. And the players you're talking about coming in, they also give them that physicality. I think Arsenal, I think it's great when you're watching a team who can play and are good in possession, but also are physically strong. We see City over the last few years, they've got bigger, obviously set pieces are huge. I think if we're talking about Arsenal getting certain players in, we've seen lads coming off the bench for Arsenal, big, strong, physical players, which can get you off the line in these tight games. I don't think Arsenal can win the league with the squad that they've got right now. I think they need to add to it in January. Striker? Yeah. City for the league, for me. I think they always gain momentum as the season goes on. I'm still sticking with City, yeah. I'm not budging at City, no. We've got two new goalkeepers at Arsenal and Manchester United. What's your, what have you made? I mean, Roy, you were very vocal, as many of us were around David De Gea, his time being up at Manchester. No, I would have kept him. They should have kept him. Huge mistake, letting him go. Can you knock him back? He's on a freeze. No, he had to go, yeah. Yeah, but then... Yeah, when you say he had to go, what do you mean he had to go? Because when you look at what's happening now... He's making too many mistakes. No, he was, I'm not saying... I mean, we've gone over that. I mean, what have you made? I mean, look, it's early days, eight games in, what do you make of it now? Oh, not great. Listen, obviously, really poor start. We talk about positions at any big club. I think you've mentioned a number of times, Gary, goalkeeper at Man United is a huge, for that personality, dealing with mistakes, but he's already made six, seven, eight big mistakes that have led to goals. It's not been a great start. It's a long way back. We've seen other keepers come to United where they've had a tricky start, and we've walked with them, we thought they're really good goalkeepers, but there seemed to be no way back from. I think looking at it now, he's made mistakes, goalkeepers make mistakes. Is he making mistakes, or is he a bad keeper? I think you'd sort of, I think we'd probably be working that out in probably the next sort of four to six weeks in how actually people see him. Is he just having a really bad run? Is he playing in front of a really poor back four and his confidence has gone? And he is a good keeper, he has played in the Champions League final. But I can't get out of my head what he did to Maguire in pre-season, and I thought it was awful. I can't get it out of my head, and I almost think, now, he's going through a really bad time. Now, psychology must be really affecting him. He's at a new club, probably never had this attention before. And I think, how would he feel if someone was running at him, throwing his arms about like a lunatic? Like, dagging him out? Yeah, I mean, it's a pre-season game, don't need to go mad. It was only his second game for Man United, he's gone running out the goal with his arms flipped. It wasn't, he didn't concede a goal. Maguire made a mistake on the half-finish, having a really bad time. Everyone's on his back, it was a bit like, you've only been here two minutes. I think sometimes a player comes to a club, he's probably putting a marker down, and listen, I'm sure if he thought he was going to make those mistakes, he wouldn't have been giving out instructions or having a goal player. I'm probably talking about where to go. Yeah, I can look it up. Everyone's defending Harry, but Harry's a big boy. Harry could, after the game, go, hey, you were lucky to score. Peter would do that one, if Peter Schmeichel would do that. But Peter then obviously would back it up. I think if they keep new mistakes coming, he might have thought, I'd better go easy before I start. You always say that, before you start ratting and raving at people, make sure you're on game. He's one of those lads that you look at him, he still looks full of life, full of confidence. Do you think that is, at the moment, a facade and a mask, and what's going on behind will be a lot more? I think when you look at the mistakes, hopefully he's got the mentality to get himself through it, because it can't be anything but for me a facade at the minute, because he, I'm not even a Man United fan, he frightens me simply because, you know, I just feel that he's making so many mistakes that he worries me in respect of, if they score two, you feel that you're gonna still concede three. You know what I mean? It would scare me playing with him at the moment. I'm not seeing too much in the way that he plays, obviously on the floor he's very good with his passing, but I'm not seeing too much in the way he plays that makes me say, oh, I can see he's getting through that. I don't know if he's doing that in training. You can justify a little bit. Yes, yes, I'm not seeing it. How long would you give it? I mean, you used to play with a manager who, obviously it's famous what happened with Jim Leighton in terms of, you know, changing him for the cup final to Les Seeley. I think Tayyibi came in, he was gone really quickly. Do you think if this continued, Man United would be saying, we need to sign a goalkeeper. They've got Beyondair, they've got Beyondair. We've lived through this period where, post-Peter, before Bedouin Van der Sar, we had obviously Mark Bosnitz, then Fabian Barthez, then we had Roy Carroll and Tim Howard, we had Ricardo, we had Massimo Tayyibi. I think that's six that I can think of there in a very short period of time, it felt like four or five years. And it was really unsettling for them. You know, they're good lads, them lads that I've just talked about, really good lads. Everyone's a great lad, isn't he? They weren't all great lads. Messi's a great lad. But they're good lads. But you could feel that tension and that unsettled feeling. You didn't know who was playing next week sometimes, it was a bit of a flip-flopping, and then obviously you just knew it wasn't Peter. You knew you didn't have that presence behind you and that personality. And then Edwin came and it became quite calm again because he had that experience, he had that stature. I think it's really difficult once you start, I mean, David Heyer had a bad start, didn't he? Yeah. And then he came out of it, and to be fair, that's, I think, something that Anand is going to have to look at. I remember speaking to goalkeeper coaches, different ones at United, and they always say, keepers make mistakes at clubs, but it's how you deal with it at Man United, it's how you deal with the mistake. Peter Schmeichel made loads of mistakes at Man United, but what he'd done was he recovered very, very quickly. That's the problem with the goalkeepers. But what we're finding out, when it's mistakes, four, five, six, seven in a run of games, that's where you start to worry. Do you think it goes back to, like, philosophy of teams, you know, like, if they are making mistakes, do you think this should take it back to basics and obviously just think about stopping the goals and playing out, or do you think, keep trying to play short? Because we have this fascination, everyone playing short and, like... He's making all sorts of mistakes, isn't he? Usually he's cut out trying to be clever, then. What I worry about, what I worry about at United is, to be honest with you, I went to the game against Brighton a few weeks ago, and Matt Tomlin had a fantastic weekend where he comes on and scores two, but he looked like he couldn't move in that game, Matt Tomlin against Brighton a few weeks ago. And there were clips circulating on social media of a look at him not trying. That's your mind playing trick. Scott McTominay, I think, would die out on that pitch for Manchester United. That's the world on his shoulders. Do you know how many heavy legs I talk about in a young player when the pressure in the dressing room isn't there, the support isn't there? My worry is who's getting an honour through it at the moment in that dressing room, because they're all struggling a little bit and they've all got heavy legs. They're all a bit overweighed by the pressure that's happening. And that does concern me. How is he going to come out of it? But his teammates aren't helping him, obviously, because they're losing games. He made a mistake the other day, but he ended up winning 2-1. You see him at the end, the goalkeeper, he's on top of everything. He's thinking, you've got me out of jail. And they've not getting him out of some of the other mistakes. At least when we were playing, when Peter made mistakes with goalkeepers, we'd still win the game. You're getting away with it a little bit, but he's getting really highlighted because they're losing week in, week out. But you're talking about McTominay, about dealing with the demands and these people are critical. When you're a young lad who's been at the club, though, for a long time, you carry the weight of the club, don't you? 27. Yeah, you do. No. He's been there since he was five. I know, but he's one of those players. Every club has a player who thinks he's a young player and he's like 28. Well, Gary says he's been there since he was five. Yeah, he's not had the pressure since he was five. No, but he's been there a long time, you know what I mean? I don't know about five. He's been there since he was five, six. I know that, yeah, but he wasn't, he wasn't carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders when he was five. No, but when you're a fan, when you're a fan, you do, it hits you. But the longer you're at the club, when you're at a club a long time, you do get extra pressure. New players, you give them a year or two, like Phillips, they're going, listen, you can find your feet here. You don't know any other pressure for you at the same time? Yeah, sort of pressure, but that's part of being a Man United player. Were you worried about Riyadh on Sunday? Were you worried about Riyadh? You know what, I thought like, when I watched it back, I heard how he was going on about my keeper. To be honest, what he's doing- Was that too harsh? I thought, I think, for what Mikel wants, I expect you to say what you said, because it did look nervy, it did look, yeah, but the fact is- Do you think he looked nervy? I mean, I was watching, I was listening to your commentary. I thought it was almost the opposite. Arrogance. Almost, he was almost too cool. He was taking too long on the ball. This is what Mikel wants, don't you? That's the old nervy one, when you start to look cool. No, no, no, but he was, he was- I tried that one. He was taking almost, there's no doubt, when you could watch him at the ball, at times when he had time on it, he was, the old, a lot of teams are doing this now, and I think Brighton almost started with it, trying to entice teams. Atta said it, Atta said it, he provoked, he said. So, I don't think he was nervous, I think he was almost waiting, come on, he was inviting the pressure, and then sometimes just waiting too long. The fans, the fans, what happened was, is that you could see the fans, especially where I was sitting, they were saying, because you could see Zinchenko's in there, you know, if he could pop it in, like you see Edison just clipping little one into the midfield. They wanted him to do stuff like that, but you could see Mikel was on, he's saying, just stay calm, and you've seen Mikel, I've seen Dzerbi, as well, with their goalkeepers, when they just go long because, and then they give up possession, they absolutely lose it. I thought that he was very, very cool in the first half, and yes, it was nervy, but he done what the manager wanted. Because the second half, second half, some of his distribution was unbelievable, especially the last 10 minutes of that game, the catching and the distribution was fantastic. We, as Arsenal fans, have to get used to the fact that he will take his time. You see Aaron, you know, people say, Aaron would have got that out there, yeah, but maybe that's why Aaron, unfortunately, he's on the bench and he's there because he calmed it. One of them should have been a goal though, shouldn't they? One of them in the first half, that should have been a goal, when he got closed down. Was that with Aki? Yeah, and then suddenly the game's 1-1. Was it Alvarez? It would be interesting. Do you think, we're talking about him always on the ball and being cool and that, do you actually think, I mean, I don't really know yet, do you think he's actually a good enough goalkeeper to win the league in terms of actually what he keeps out the net? Have you seen enough evidence of that yet? I think, I've seen some saves where you think, yeah, he's going to probably save us a few times. Especially, one of the things that he does more than anything that makes me feel very, very calm is the way he comes and takes everything and just kind of like calms everybody. You can see that there's a calmness in our defence. When that ball's coming in, when he comes and gets it and he just stays calm. I can't help it if that wasn't there before. Well, I wouldn't say it weren't there before, but the fact is, unfortunately for Aaron, he's not in there and this guy is. We have to discuss VAR. Roy, I've not heard you, obviously, the Spurs-Liverpool game was a big crisis. What did you make of it? Oh, it was crazy, wasn't it? Yeah, crazy. A mistake by the officials and... It's not crazy, it's incompetence, Barry. Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah. I hate VAR. I think we speak more about refereeing decisions now, whereas in the past, yeah, you wouldn't get one one week, then you'd get one the next. Like, it annoys me. In 2019, we played with it in the World Cup and I remember you'd score and you'd like, stop and it would ruin the whole moment and then they'd come to you three minutes later and go, yeah, it's a goal. Best moment of your life, scoring in the World Cup. And then you're like, yeah, I hate it. It's the, you see what VAR... And we're talking about VAR, we're talking about the people that use VAR. VAR works, it's the people that are using VAR are not good enough in what they're doing. This idea that we put ex-footballs in there is a nonsense for me, by the way. Seriously, we don't even know the rules. Yeah, but yeah, I'm sorry. Are you tired of talking about it? It's tiring, isn't it? It is tiring talking about it, but at the same time, the people who are in there who do know the rules cannot make mistakes like that, man. They're taking away the joy, the essence of the game. That was a bad one, that one. The celebration, the joy is what we go for. You know, the punters in the ground don't even know what's going on. It's, at the moment... Just replay the game, that'd be easy. You know something? We've taken so many... On replaying the game, you know what? It shouldn't have got to that because what should have happened was, they should have, hang on a sec, you've got that wrong. They've taken so much time sometimes to look at something that we can see that's right. If you're going to take another 30, 45 seconds to get that decision right for Liverpool, then do it and then we've got... That's common sense, isn't it? There's no common sense. You know, you're looking at someone like Mike... What's the fellow with Merse the other day? Mike Dean. Mike Dean saying about, they don't even know the laws of the games. Laws of the game. They know the laws of the game and they're still getting it wrong. I saw... Did you see what happened with Alex Green? Yeah, it was ridiculous. It was actually... This is what I'm saying, Emma saying... On a free kick and then the player didn't run so she went back and got a second yellow card. That's not even VAR, is it? No, it wasn't. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying. The VAR's there and we know it's not going anywhere. It's the people that are using it. At the same time, we have to be careful about the progression of referees that's coming as well. Because that's something that we need to be sorting out. Because we're talking about the elite ones here who are getting it wrong on an unbelievable scale. So where's the conveyor belt of referees that's coming? I just think in terms... I said this on Monday Night Football. There was a lot of criticism around the officials on that game because they made a mistake about them going abroad. But we have got, I think we'd all agree, probably the best league, most exciting league. We've got the best players from all around the world, the best managers, coaches, training ground, stadium. We've got the best of everything here. If the officials aren't up to standard, why can't we go and get the best? And listen, I don't want to just sort of ruin this sort of road that you're talking about, young referees getting to the top in the Premier League, but we've got the best of everything. And if the officials aren't up to standard, we should be able to bring the best in. We just have to. You can't accept some of the decisions that we've seen this season. I was doing the game on Sunday. I thought the Kovacic one. I mean, Michael Over is a fantastic referee. I thought it was incredible, that one. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying with Mike Dean talking about rules and rules. The first one could have been a red itself. He's talking about rules are rules. If the rules are the rules, then Kovacic has to get sent off. What, for the second one? Well, he's got two yellows. He's got the first one and then the second one. The second one is a foul, but I'm not sure that was a yellow. Ibiza, well, it was very close to the other one. Yeah, it was close to it, but I don't think the second one. It could have easily been a yellow. It could have easily been a yellow, but I don't think it's just everyone saying, well, he had a yellow just before that and that could have been a red. But that doesn't mean, that's a separate incident. Yeah, but he's made a mistake for a player that's on a yellow. He's going into a challenge. I get it, but I don't jump on it going, it's definitely a red. I'm a bit with Roy, and the reason I say this is because I think the one the week before with Curtis Jones is that I think a referee, and I sort of admire Michael Oliver for doing this at the weekend. I'm not saying you don't apply the rules, but I'd love referees to do as much as they possibly can to try and keep at 11. If there's any sort of grey, can I keep him on the pitch? Keep him on the pitch. And the Kovacic one, for me, I always think, if you get someone on the ankle, you're probably, no matter how bad, you're probably going to get away with it. As soon as it goes above the ankle, it looks like, oh, that's a leg break. I think he was lucky that, if that was sort of six inches higher, he's off the pitch, no doubt. When they slow it down, though, it looks so much worse. It's like they give yellow cards out for anything. You wouldn't have stayed on the pitch for one game. That was it. Whoa, whoa, whoa! I mean, she's putting on you. They do just give yellow cards off for nothing. Imagine they gave red cards to foul on abusive language. I mean, exactly. If, say, he slowed down, it'd look worse. There's always a point when, not a tackle happens so quickly, people go, he's only just had a year, but it doesn't matter if that was two minutes ago or 20 minutes ago. I think the referee done quite well. And we have everyone on the sideline, and players, they're all starting to do that again now. Yeah, but we're playing in a time where everything's, every foul is a yellow card, so you'd expect Kovacic to get sent off the pitch. Let's wrap it up with anti-clock-wise, keep VAR or no VAR. I'm keeping VAR, but what I am doing is opening up the mics to the stadium and the actual theatre of the replays to the stadium, so everyone can see it. So is that on the table? So can we say we're keeping for those things on the table? I'm saying keep VAR, but bring that in. Can I make one point about the VR, when they showed the recording of the loop, how casual the people, I think that was a bit that surprised me. Yeah, all right, Jim, yeah, I'll have a look. All right, what is it? All right, Dave, yeah. All right, Dave. No, sorry, Dave, it's all right. All right, Trigg. It's true. Yeah. It was very casual, wasn't it? That's a bit what worries me. No watching the golf. Like golf. You know something? Go on, Jamie. Keep it, keep it. I'm with you, I'm with you. It's all, it's easy to say, get rid of it. It's not, as Wrighty said, it's not going anywhere. So we've got to try and make it as good as we can. Get rid of it. Jill. Yeah, get rid of it. And get rid of Jill. No, no, I don't think get rid of it. We can't get rid of it. What about Jill? I love Jill. Come on, get rid of Jill. Eat Jill and get rid of VR. We're talking about Birmingham City, and they just sacked John Eustace yesterday. And Wayne Rooney, someone, or linked with Wayne Rooney, it looks like they're going to appoint him. What do we make of that in terms of, we've got to enter the sort of discussion around modern managers, players that we've played with, the difficulty and challenges that managers that we've played with have had. And is it a smart move by Birmingham to bring Wayne Rooney back? Well, he's a student of the game, isn't he, Roy? Yeah, apparently so, yeah. Watches games, yeah. Coaching badges. Like Phil. Like Sir Ralph. I mean, the thing I saw with Wayne is he's 37. He's already in his, what would it be now? Would this be his third job? And the thing I would say, and one of the reasons why, not the exact reason, I probably never went into it, but when I think of players we played with in the England squad of Wayne, Frank, Stevie, where they've actually had to go to sort of stay a manager. Stevie's in Saudi now, moved up to Scotland. What I'm saying is moving away from the family. Wayne's just gone to the MLS. Now he's back to Birmingham. Frank's been, obviously, normally been in London most of his life, then moving around and that sort of thing, of being away from the family. So I actually admire them, really, because they've had to probably do things in their managerial career that they probably didn't do in the playing career, and I don't think I'd be prepared to do that. I mean, you did it in terms of going to Valencia. I remember speaking to you, you talked about moving the whole family down to Ipswich. I think that's a big part of managing, because it's not like playing where you're confident and you think, I'm going to see out this four-year deal, or I can stay at United or Arsenal, Liverpool for a long time. You know you're only going to be in a job for two years, probably, max. Is that a big problem for you in terms of the family bit, and the kids and the schools at the back of your mind? Yeah, of course it is, but it depends on what club you're going to. When I moved to Sunderland, I was going to move the family up, didn't quite walk out, regarding the family coming up with schools. I ended up commuting, but that actually suited me at the time, and maybe we got some decent results. So your mindset is, well, this is working. This suits us. If it's just slightly different, again, you move the family. I think I signed a two-year deal when I was down there. You bring all the family down, you buy a house down there, and I was gone probably after, what, 13 months? So yeah, but that's the pitfalls. Pitfalls of management, yeah. It can be obviously draining. Would you like to go back into management, Roy? I'd like to go back in, yeah, but... I'd love to see you back in management. Listen, I'd like another crack-off. You signed a two-year deal, we stick to football, so... You can still come in here on a Wednesday afternoon, can't he? There's a few clauses, guys. As you well know, like my clauses. Roy, what is it about management? Because it fascinates me, because when I speak to you or other people who've been in management, I was with Frank Lampard on Sky the other day, and they tell you little things that, listen, you wouldn't put out there in the public domain, things that go on behind the scenes, and a lot of them are horror stories. But when you ask someone, do they want to go back in? Everyone says, yeah. What is the drive to go back in when there's so many problems around the job? Well, from my own personal experiences, especially the last one, when I was a manager, obviously I worked with Mountain, with Ireland, I'd done a bit of assistant at Forestry. I think it's just a challenge, you know, getting back in. I've been out of management for a number of years now, but still on a Saturday, I'm still agitated every Saturday about not having a team. And I've not managed for nine, 10, 11 years. So it never goes away. But it's, what opportunity are you going to get? I don't know about Wayne and these lads, having to Sunderland certainly wasn't easy, which was a tough challenge. Wayne now is coming back to Birmingham, I know there's new owners there. I think it depends on the club, the timing, like listening to contract. So sometimes you think, I like your challenge, you speak to a club, but it's like anything else, you've got to look at the contract, you've got to have a bit of self-worth. Do you think you want to go in and face them challenges? Like Wayne, I guarantee you, if Wayne takes the Birmingham job, the contract would be, listen, he won't have lost his spend. I don't think he'd bring in 10 staff. I think the wages might be great, but that's up to the person then, do they see that challenge in front of them? But contracts obviously come into it. What makes you like, want to be a manager or a coach? Because I look at managing, I'd love to go in and coach, but managing it seems like agents and all this stuff that goes on when you just want to manage the football team, there seems so much more around it. There's a difference, obviously. Some people have been on the grass, love coaching, I probably wasn't one of them. I like making the bigger decisions, but other lads then, we've worked with lads who just want to be a coach and are not interested in picking the team or going to board meetings or dealing with the media. Yeah, you do have to make your mind up. I know clubs have changed recently with people like Pep, obviously, and Klopp, they're very hands-on. Hands-on to coaching. But other managers, I bet you, like Wenger, the managers we played under, Ferguson, Brian Klopp, the managers I played under were very much, no, we let other people coach and I'll just step back and obviously make the big decisions. Did you want to go into managing? I did as a player. I always thought I would. I was thinking I'd done my coaching badges early. I think if you'd asked people in our dressing room whether me or Stevie would have been a manager, I think most people would have said I would have. But it really is about having the experience as your own managers. The two managers I had were Gerard Houllier for six years and Benitez for six years. Biggest influencers on my career. So impressed with them. But the last sort of couple of years of it, you just saw what the job, it was just almost like this man who'd come in and you had so much respect for, you're sort of in awe of in some ways. You saw them on the way out and you were like, oh my God, that's what the job's done to them. And they were successful. You know, it wasn't a disaster. It was like, they bolted really well. And then I owe what I asked Roy before, I'd never moved. And that thing of like thinking, I'll be in a job here for 18 months, then move there for two years. And I got a good gig. With him on Monday Night Football, didn't I? So I looked at it and thought, I'd probably have to go in as a manager, probably bottom championship, maybe top of league one. A level I don't know. I don't know that level. And I'm getting a job where I think, one of the best shows, Poundry Two Hours. And I was thinking, well, I'm going into probably the top of that. Yes, right in there. Yeah. Top end. Or I'd go to the bottom of football at a level I don't really know. Does that give you the football fix though? Like, it's great talking about football, but the prospect of being like back on the grass and, does it give you- That thing when people say back on the grass, I couldn't think of anything worse. No, sorry. I'm doing a warm-up. You made a good point, sorry. Pick up a point. The other side, you've got Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney. These are lucky lads. And I was lucky to get the son of your first gig when you've had a half decent career. But the problem is that when you've been in, you've had a decent career. As soon as you go through a difficult spell, people throw it at you straight away going, like Wayne's stats at the moment are not great. He's had tough jobs, no doubt. And the first thing is people say, well, just because you were a really top player doesn't mean you're going to be top manager. But Wayne, and like me and Gerrard, we're still managers learning our trade. But when you've had a decent career, people throw it at you straight away, oh, just because you were a good player doesn't mean, yeah, but we're learning like everybody else. I went to Sunderland. I remember Niall Nile was the chairman. Niall was saying, Roy's going to be box office. And he was meaning well. He wasn't coming from a bad place. But I remember going, I'm just a young manager learning like everybody else. And as soon as you have a difficult spell, people go, oh, you can't handle it because of what you've done as a player. And people can't do what you do. And you're like, no, I'm just having a difficult spell like everybody else. You don't sometimes get the benefit. You get lucky to get into a job. I get it. And you look at, listen, Gerrard and Lampard, they've got great opportunities as well. But as soon as you have a difficult spell, people throw that at them. Oh, you were a good player, but you'll never make it as a manager. I was a good player. Did you ever think about it, righty? Yeah, there was, because I'd done that year at MK Dons. Wanted to see, if I had that, like you say, boots on the grass and the fit, I didn't have it. I'd done it for a year. Remember I was telling you about like, watching the guys train and then watching them on a Saturday play totally different to what they were told to do on a Wednesday, right? And then I'm watching them. I remember Carl Robinson, one time he said to me, just go and say something. And I didn't know what to say. I said, I can't believe I'm watching the same players play at the levels that they were playing there. And then now you're here, we're playing against this and you can't even string three passes together. That's pundish, you're not a coach. That's pundish as well. But in that moment, I said, and in that moment he realised this is not the place for him, right? Because I remember I had to do some stuff. Dele Alli was there at the time. He was a young guy. Gallagher as well. Went to Everton afterwards as well. They were there and I remember doing it and I'm saying, I'm not enjoying doing this. I haven't got the mentality to be able to deal with not only the press and the pressures that come with the manager, but emotionally, I'll be all over the place. I think another thing as well, I think there's people who probably haven't had our careers who know they know the game and they've got a drive in terms of coaching and management that I just think might be tough balls to match. I'm not saying that we wouldn't work hard or there, but it's just like, it's a way out for them financially as well. So that even the families are saying, go and take that job because that's going to change our lives. Probably our wives are probably at the end of our careers saying, this is our time now. Aren't we supposed to be going on holiday at Christmas or doing this or doing that? Whereas people who haven't actually played have got that thing of like, they've still got the family really pushing them out there because the money managers are here now. I mean, it is. It's life changing. And a lot of the top managers, certainly, when you talk about me not doing it. Wenger, not a great career. Benitez didn't really play. Ferguson didn't have a great career. Marino didn't play. They were the four managers at the time. I was thinking, you know, they've just got something that like, maybe an extra drive that maybe players who've played at the highest level probably haven't got. I think all of them, all of them you mentioned have a certain obsession and a direct vibe about what they're doing. It's obsessive. Arsene Wenger was obsessive about football. I think you look at Pep, he's the same. Mikel's the same. You look at Klopp and the way they see, there's a different energy to the way the managers are now in their obsession to get their team, get it right and what they want to do, which I would, I'm nowhere near that place. I'm not either. Nowhere near that place. And I could see it. You watch them and I say, I would not be able to deal with this. But when those managers are out of a job, they're not going to Ibiza or Dubai. They're not, are they? They're going to watch someone else's training sessions, aren't they? You know what I mean? Breaking news here. What we got? Salford got a new manager. Eden Hazard has just announced his retirement. Wow. What do we make of his career? Has he achieved everything that we thought he would? I'll start with you, Roy. No, but listen, brilliant player at Chelsea. But when he turned up, when he turned up with the condition he turned up at Real Madrid, not a good. He's had injuries. Talented boy. But I just, the fact when you talk about Real Madrid, I just, again, I find it hard to... 32 years of age. That's not all he is. That's it. That's all he is now. This is sad to see because he's a talented player, but it goes to show that your talent isn't enough. He just didn't look like he had the full package in terms of his mindset when he went to Real Madrid. You can't turn up over weights. Your first pre-season at the club, I just think it's... Eden Hazard openly said, though, that he knew that he had the talent to reach them heights, but wasn't willing to have that dedication. To eat. No, but that dedication and whatever else, he knew what he wanted to do and he was very comfortable with that. I think he was one of the best players I've ever seen in the Premier League. Yeah. Yes, James. He was one of the best players in a World Cup when I think Belgium finished third. I think he won Player of the Year a couple of times. But I do think there's something about Barcelona-Real Madrid. For me, I think they are the two biggest clubs in the world, isn't that? The best players in the world always almost play for those teams, really. And he just hasn't done that last bit, that row he's talking about, where you think of like, you know, what a Ronaldinho did when he went to Barcelona, what Ronaldo did when he went to Real Madrid, what Bellingham looks like he's doing when he's going to Real Madrid. I think you elevate yourself to another level if you produce the goods at those two clubs. And he just hasn't got that. And I think a lot of that is what Royce said, is, you know, how can you go to Real Madrid like that? I just, I can't understand that. But in terms of the Premier League, I think he'd be very close to probably an all-time Premier League 11. I think he'd definitely be in the discussion. Yeah. I think he was brilliant for Chelsea. That is a shame because like, when it was all happening, we saw it was happening for a few years before he went to Real Madrid, he's going to leave and that. But like, he was scintillating. Yeah. He was, you know what? The same kind of- How many seasons, though? Was he that brilliant for that many seasons? I think for three or four seasons, he was probably the best player in the league. He was the one. For how many seasons? I think for probably three or four seasons, I think he was probably the best player in the Premier League. I think so. I don't know. Chelsea won the league twice, I think, in that time. You can see where, again, where Real Madrid would want a player like him. He was scintillating. And that's why they come and get someone like that, when they see what he can do. I'm very surprised that, you know, when you saw the pictures, when he came back to training, you think, wow, what's happened there? Because if you're going, that is the final destination, isn't it? For that elite level of player. So, for him to turn up like that, it was like, wow. You know what I mean? So, I don't know what's happened. But I tell you about that, he didn't have that extra. Because, again, you'd be, imagine your first pre-season at your new club. They've spent four, so you turn up. Was it, was it something? Did he say, like, a stoner? Yeah. Wow. I always think when, I can't believe a player that's so fit, that's so motivated, that's had a massive move. I always think there's something else wrong if they've turned up overweight. I just think, that can't just happen in a month. He's not just gone on the pace, he's not just gone and got bladdered for a month. And that pizza, he can't have done that. So, I always think, what's happened there? What's happened in that summer? I do always think that you mentioned about Real Madrid. It's an unforgiving club. I think United can be. I think you look at United over the last seven or eight years, it has become a graveyard for players who are top players. And I think Real Madrid can become that place. There was an accusation level that that Belgium team wasn't there about the mentality, the hunger, that talented group, that golden generation. And I think he sort of, I think is the epitome of that now in terms of his unbelievable ability. When you look at Ronaldo, you remember Ronaldo at United, and you think of sort of Messi and what Pep was talking about last week. They were relentless, every single day was like a mission to become the best in the world. I don't think Hazard thought about football that way in the way in which- That's not Madrid's fault, does it? You know what I'm saying? But they signed him. It can be difficult to go to any big club, but you turn up in good shape to give yourself the best chance. He didn't give himself a chance, even if the club was maybe, you're going to a club at a bad time, but you can still turn up in shape. You know something as well, when you look at a player who's that good, some of the players who are that good, yes, they've got the work ethic. They'll do it. But sometimes when you're that good, you just feel like, yeah, I'll be fine. I get the impression that he is- Complacency. I think so. I think so because he was that good. And when you see him, sometimes his vibe and his swagger and everything, you can see that he's somebody that, yeah, I'll be fine. Don't worry. But I still wouldn't- I get that impression of him. The players you've mentioned there and the brilliant players in the Premier League, Scherer, Henry, Oli, I still wouldn't be putting him in that bracket. Well- Maybe because of that little bit of- How so? Not in that bracket? Yeah, I'd put him in there. Like, I'll go with Jamie with that one. Top 10 players, he's probably- I still think it was less than three or four years. I just look, if you look back, I'm going to say, and I still think that's not long enough when you start talking about these other amazing players who've done it for me eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 years. For two or three years, for me, it's still not enough. These are listeners' questions now. So, which celebrity show would you do? Righty, you've done The Jungle. Jill, you've been to The Jungle. The Righty we see here, or the one we've seen in The Jungle, which is the real one? This one when he's fed. When he's fed. You were a little bit grumpy. You were grumpy. But that's the way they edited it. You should have seen me, that was dramatic. No, what's it called? That was, that's a- It's a difficult show, though. Honestly. It's difficult. Being that hungry for that long, and that tired, and then they're doing certain things to you that you don't know is happening. I swear to you, I don't know how I didn't- Hazard should have went in The Jungle. Honestly, you lose about two seats. Oh my God. Honestly. That was tough. Roy, would you go in The Jungle? There was a price on it put on the World Cup, I think, if I remember rightly. Was there? Go on, Gary. What? I think you said for a million quid, you'd go in. Was there a million? Did I say that, or did somebody else say it? No, I don't think I said that. I think you said it'd be a million. No, never. Would you go in for that? I would have kept my options up and go in. I wouldn't put a price on it. No, I don't see myself in these programmes. You're a bit funny, though. I think we'd like to see you there. Yeah, I don't know. I'd just- Go in for charity. Yeah, look at him. You're like, not for yourself, Roy, go in for someone else. No, I don't see it. No? How are you off of Strickland, yeah? Dancing on ice. Please, James, no way you're dancing on ice. You'd be brilliant on that. No. I think the only one I'd do is probably The Jungle, but it's a brilliant TV show to watch. It's completely different, isn't it? It's hard, because you're like literally sat like this for like 16 hours, so if you don't go out for a trial- It's a bit like what we're doing here, yeah. Imagine being sat here for 16 hours. It depends on the company, but the food is bad as well. Like the food, you don't get a lot of food, but you make good friends out of it. No, but I mean, it looks a brilliant show to watch. It's funny, but what I'm saying, is it boring being in there? It's very boring. Is it? And then the hunger, but like there's a nice camaraderie that you build when you're, like for instance, you go and do the trial, you know what I mean? Like if Roy's in, like what happened with me, they just kept voting for me to do him. In the end- Isn't that a good thing? You know what it is? You know what it does? It kind of gets you to a place where you know you've got to do this to feed people, so whatever they're going to do to me, to be honest, I never wanted to be buried in anything. That was one of my, I couldn't sleep at night thinking, they're going to bury me tomorrow. But like when you go in to do the trial, I was just thinking about people are starving. People are starving, and so it kind of gets you through it. You kind of go into that place where, yes, you can do it, but like after that, it's- Well, when people say they want to be friends, you said you made great friends. Yeah. Who? No, no, I'm saying, because when you're in there, people go, we'll all be friends after this. You go, no, we won't. I don't want to see you ever again. Like who? When was the last time you met him? Did you meet him for a cup of tea recently? Yeah, no, we do meet for a coffee, yeah. Me and Owen go to the Man City games. Right, okay. I have made good friends, because I feel like you never, you don't have your mobile phone, which is a big one, so you actually talk to each other, and yeah, it is good for that. You've got to go and make some friends. Did you find out Emery had been sacked when you were in there or something? No. What happened? Have you ever known something? No, no, no. Something happened with Arsenal that told you when you came out? No, they told me when I came out, but like, I remember. What, that Emery had been sacked? Something, no, I can't remember what it was with Arsenal, but I think, I can't remember, was it an England game? What was it? Was it? I was right. How did you find out? It was about your time in there, you asked for it. I asked for it. You knew Emery was sacked, you were celebrating. Yeah. And look at him now. How did you find that out? Because I asked for the World Cup squad, the England World Cup squad, and instead they give us three players of sweet cover line, and I played one, and boy George said, please don't play that song again, because he didn't like it, so I lost my luxury item, but they wouldn't let us know the scores or anything. In respect of who I was in with? Who you were in with? I was in with Roman Kemp, who was cool, and Nadine Coyle, who's a dear friend of the family now. Because plus, Nadine's family and my missus, Nadine's family and my missus were in the hotels back next door just getting hammered every night while we was in the jungle, but like, we're really tight with them. You know, so obviously Kate Garraway, you know, you do get a bond with people. So you can make friends? You know what I mean? No, you can bond with people, but then leave it there, you know what I mean? Yeah, but what happens in the jungle, stay in the jungle? Yeah, of course. Right, last question. This one is a difficult one, I think. Ten Hag or Posta Koglu? Oh. In what respect? That's the question. Come on, man. It's a statement. Posta Koglu. It's a question. No, man, Posta Koglu. Who's a better manager, you mean? At the moment, Posta Koglu is not even, shouldn't even be compared at the minute with what he's done in Tottenham in such a short space of time. I think it's enough. Ten Hag won a trophy last year. He's won a trophy, yeah, but the thing is, he's won a trophy in a time where they weren't expecting too much. It was about the results and getting in there. So whatever got you in there is gonna be, like, it's gonna suffice. But you're gonna tell me now, you start a new season, and we're still seeing what? What we're seeing? You see, Andrew's coming under a lot of pressure. Andrew Posta Koglu. He's coming under a lot of pressure, and, you know, he's showing us that Tottenham are playing a certain way. Who was under pressure? Who? Who did you say was under pressure? Posta Koglu. He wasn't. How can he not be under pressure coming from, coming from Surrey to Tottenham? There was no pressure on him because people weren't, people weren't expecting much. They just all came, they was like, let's see how this goes. What do you mean they weren't expecting much? They weren't expecting much from him. Were they expecting Tottenham to do what they're doing now? Absolutely not. I think the thing, and they're doing it so, but he's not. He wasn't under pressure. They were saying, everyone was doubting him, so straight away, all I can do is do better by everyone's thing. So you think that if Posta Koglu starts, and he starts like, 10 hours. A season like, 10 hours. Oh yeah. Oh, he's under pressure. Oh, we knew that would happen. He's not experienced enough at this level. Yeah, probably. Ange, bro. Ange. But he wasn't under pressure. The other managers are under, absolutely not. He's not under the pressure. You're saying to me that, Posta Koglu's coming in, and Tottenham, with everything that's happened. They lost Kane. As soon as Kane came into the door, everyone was writing Spurs up. Because they sold Kane. What were people saying? How can there not be an expectation on him? Because Spurs have done nothing for 20 ******* years, except for me. I can't explain it to you. As soon as Kane left. Roy, it's Christmas. As soon as Kane left. You be quiet. As soon as Kane left. As soon as Kane. Don't speak to Julio. No, she slagged me off earlier. As soon as Kane left, everyone was Tottenham. Righty. There's no way if Tottenham don't start, if Tottenham don't start, if Tottenham start badly. Of course. Yeah, he would have been. So he's dealt with that brilliantly well, and he's shown. He's done brilliant, but it's October. Sorry, Gal. I can't do this. We'll do this after. That's the end of the episode. Is it? Straight to football, yeah. We have to come to the end of this show. So thank you, Ian. Thanks, Roy. Thanks, Jill. Thanks, Cara. Don't thank Roy. No thanks to Roy. I'll see you all next week. Nice one, Gal. ------- hell. It's like trying to hurt ******* Kane. ------- honest, I can't be a host. ------- hell. How is he not under pressure? He's under no pressure.