Messi’s MLS Debut In Question: New York Red Bulls Preview

Welcome back everybody to a very special edition of the English version of Messi & Co. I am your host Austin Robillard. Joined with me today again, as always, Ashley and Gian. We have a very special show for you lined up. New York Red Bulls preview. We're finally getting in to MLS action. That's right, Lionel Messi has not played in MLS yet, but tomorrow night, Saturday night, we will finally get to see it happen. Or will we? We will discuss all of that and more coming off the back of a crazy final, or sorry, semi-final, I should say, against FC Cincinnati in what was another penalty shootout. You had the Nashville shootout just before that. What a time to be an Into Miami fan and supporter. And for everybody watching and tuning in around the world, we've got some numbers for you lined up about the impact and everything like that in today's show. So make sure you stick around. We have some great content for you. 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And there's been a lot of profitability among Lionel Messi when it comes to these competitions and the networks that provide the service. Ashley, you have a couple of things to add on here and explain to all of us, what are you seeing right now from Lionel Messi's impact to the TV networks and so on? Yeah, absolutely. I think that we were all Wednesday night exhausted mentally and physically as if we had to play the last two games to penalties. But outside of just social media, which is something we talk about as a theme, you know, with all the great angles and high-definition video that MLS and the U.S. Open Cup, the League's Cup are putting out, it's obviously making a huge impact. I mean, the second assist that Messi did in extra time was one of the most spectacular passes that I feel like we've all seen in a while. And we've gotten to see it from every single angle, like the All-22, as you would say in NFL. So yeah, social, it's continuing to get those millions of views. But this is the first non-Apple TV broadcast, right, that we had this past Wednesday. And I think that's part of another thing that MLS is seeing is, you know, what is his impact on the United States, right? And so I have two really, really interesting, in my opinion, sources of analytics. First of all, from the incomparable Michelle Kaufman from the Miami Herald. Per Nielsen ratings, during Inter-Miami's action-packed shootout victory over Cincinnati, Telemundo ranked number one network overall, regardless of language, in the time slot of New York, Miami, San Francisco, and D.C. So not even the English broadcast, the Spanish broadcast in four major cities was the number one program being watched on network TV. And that's, so that's Telemundo. And now from CBS, there's three things that happened, basically. First, it was the most new users ever to the Pluto TV platform, which is obviously something that they have that people couldn't get to watch a free event. It was the most watched live event ever on that platform. CBS Sports Colossal Network, largest day ever in households. And then it was the number six most streamed match ever for Paramount and CBS. And just to give you a little context on that, they've had the UEFA Champions League for the last however many years. So already, this was the sixth most watched ever streamed soccer game. So just to give, and this is a Wednesday night. Okay, like, you know, let's have some perspective here in Cincinnati, Ohio. That is just to show that is the messy effect. That is, you will see many records continue to be broken, both in traditional cable situations, even though they'll be rare, because MLS obviously with Apple TV. But whenever there's chances for other domestic platforms to be able to use their media to display messy, you're going to see these numbers breakthrough. I mean, to be the CBS Sports Colossal Network's most watched thing ever in households. That's crazy. That's crazy. You know, no, I just wanted to shed a little light on it. And yeah, you're right. Paramount Plus and the CBS Sports Network has the Champions League, they have Europa League, they have Conference League. I believe they have the Brazilian Serie A and another, you know, couple of leagues. They have Italian Serie A too. The Italian Serie A, exactly. And that's where I've watched all my Champions League games. I don't know about you guys. But that is my that's paramount points. Always K Abdo, Michael Richards, Jamie Carragher, Thierry Henry, that the amazing Ray Hudson. Awesome. Yep. So that crew is awesome. And that's where a lot of the Champions League, you know, coverage in the United States of America is and has been for quite some time since they've really jumped onto the scene. Since Bleacher Report, you know, ended up getting rid of it and whatnot. So it's crazy to think that a game, like you said, held in Cincinnati, Ohio is competing with numbers for European top flight competitions. That's kind of insane. And it just proves the value of Messi's, you know, choice to come here. And there are more big games to come. If they make a playoff push, I can only imagine what it looks like down the stretch. And of course, on September 27, despite being the game being a dry pink stadium at home for South Florida, but that game was also going to be televised, I'm sure, through CBS, who has the rights to the U.S. Open Cup. So another huge game, at least in a month from now, to look out for. Gian, any thoughts here? Yeah, I think that, you know, what we continue to see with Inter Miami, what we continue to see with Messi, it's just like we continue to see these thrillers. I think we kind of thought that they were going to steamroll over everybody. And the fact that some of these games, while we have steamrolled over some teams, some of these games continue to be to the last minute. A lot of Messi just putting the team on his back. Certain players just, I mean, going above and beyond what we've even seen from them on this team just leads to those numbers that Ashley was talking about. People are, it's like that saying, are you not entertained? This is not just soccer fans, but I assume you guys have probably had some of the same experiences where friends or people are asking you about Messi, asking you about Inter Miami. And I'm thinking, I'm like, I didn't even know you knew about Inter Miami. Another friend was a friend at work the other day, Ashley actually asked me about Campana. I'm like, Campana, I mean, do you even watch soccer? Yeah, but it's just amazing how we're seeing, we're attracting so many people to the MLS, to Miami, to watch our players who maybe never have been, you know, interested in this sport, interested in this team. And that just goes to show how much the Messi, the Messi effect and what the Mas brothers have done and what Beckham has done to bring a spotlight on our soccer. And it's just something beautiful to watch. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll make a really quick, I'll make a really quick, bold prediction statement that we can all, we can look back at this and see if I was right before we move topics. So the game is going to be September 27th, right? Which is a Wednesday, I believe. And it will be televised on CBS. I will say now that it will, it will get more views than the NFL Sunday slate that week on CBS. Just not not all of them. But I'm just saying like that Wednesday game, I bet you is going to have more viewers than the any other CBS NFL game that week. Okay, I'm gonna mark that one down because you still owe us from when Messi didn't speak English, actually. So I'm going to mark that. I'm going to look for that one on price picks to see if I can find that way. Yeah, exactly. That's my bold, maybe too bold prediction. But that's, that's what I think we're starting to deal with. And it's final people like to watch championships. I don't think it's far fetched at all, to be honest with you, which is so crazy to say that US Open Cup is competing with NFL. But at this point, with Messi on the roster, it's, it's, it's there. It's a valid, valid point. With all that said, we have a game tomorrow night, as we're recording this on Friday, Saturday night, inner Miami are taking on New York Red Bulls finally getting into MLS action. It'll be Lino Messi's first MLS action. Since he joined the team back in July, they've had two games, I think two or three games since he actually joined, but he was not eligible to play just yet. And he started in League's Cup, of course. And now finally, they have these 12 games starting Saturday night to try and make a push for the playoffs. And there are some causes for concern when it comes to the schedule that they have just endured the schedule, they will continue to endure the fatigue of the players. And we saw in the last couple of matches and just how tired it looked at times. And so there's a lot for us to cover. But I really want to start with what you guys think may happen. Because I'm under the impression, especially after the press conference today with Tatsu Martino and David Ruiz, it was said actually, that they had not even trained since the Cincinnati game. They didn't train yesterday at all. They left Cincinnati, got to New York, I believe, this afternoon, or this morning, had the press conference and they were going to have an evening session. So they took as much time off as they possibly could, according to Tatsu Martino. And they still hadn't even assessed what they would do with Lionel Messi. Tatsu Martino said that no decision had been made. They were going to wait for the session, the Friday night session, and have conversations between the coaching staff and the player and other players, all themselves to decide what's going to happen. So I don't think that they have gone into this knowing what to do. About 24 hours to kickoff, without having that decision, it kind of makes it seem like it probably won't be a start for Lionel Messi. But you never really know, because then you have somebody like David Ruiz, who also spoke today, and said that the team knows they have to win every single game. It's their duty to go out and compete, because they have to. They are in a position in the playoff push that is not really favorable. And every single game is important. With all of that said, what are your guys' predictions? Does Lionel Messi get on the starting sheet? Does he come off the bench in the second half? Is it at halftime? Is it in the 60th minute? Does it depend on the flow of the game? I mean, where do we stand, and what do you think is really the right move for Tatsu Martino? Ashley? Well, those are two very different questions. To start with, what is the right thing to do? I have absolutely no idea. Again, it's like when we're talking about the formation. I have no idea. I think that this is probably one of the few players in the world where it's literally his decision. Or he'll be honest enough to say, yes, start me, maybe. Or if you need to, I can. I don't know if it's the right. I think he would be the one to say it, and the coaching staff would listen. My prediction, I don't think he's going to start. I don't think that all three will be benched, though. I don't think him, Busquets, and Alba will all start on the bench. I don't know what exactly it will look like, but one or two of them will start, I think. And again, I agree, it's based on the flow of the game. I would say he's probably going to come on in the 50, 55, 60, unless it's a big fire, maybe halftime. But if it's a game that's within reach, or it's anyone's game, or only one goal up, I would say he's going to come in in the 50 to 60th minute. So I know that, at least from the quotes, we realize that this team understands the magnitude of what is in front of them, now that they're beginning the MLS League playoff push. We've heard that from Tata, we've heard that from Ruiz, and many others. So we know that they take every game important, and they know that they still have a chance to continue. With that, we also know that they've logged a lot of minutes in this League's Cup, in the US Open semi-final that they just played. We've got players into almost 800 minutes of gameplay logged in, in such a short amount of time. So I think that it's going to be really important to figure out a way to make sure you rest key players without risking your ability to win these games. And that's what Tata gets paid the big bucks for, so he's got to make that decision. He's also said that he's going to allow Messi more than anything to make this decision. But then he also said something recently where he said, if it was up to Messi, he'd probably play every game. I feel like that mindset is changing a little bit, and he's like, I might have to make the decision for him. So what I think is going to happen, or maybe what I would like to happen, is to see some of the key players get their rest. I don't think Messi's going to start. I don't think he should start. I'm looking at this game and I'm seeing New York Red Bulls, right? That's who we're facing. I'm seeing a team that's 11th in the Eastern Conference. They have two wins, three losses in their last five games. They've got only four wins in their last 10 games. They're only averaging a little above one goal per game in their last 10 matches. So they're not a team that scores a lot. They're not a team that's very dangerous, in my opinion. Yeah, we lost to them, I believe, our last game in May, but that was under a different coach, completely different team, dealing with injuries. So I'm not overly scared about this team. Actually, I'm not scared of any team, but I'm trying to be objective here. But this team, I'm not necessarily scared of them. So I think that if there's any time that you're going to rest players, I think it's going to be against this team after such a tough stretch of the amount of time played. So I agree with what Ashley said. I don't think they're going to rest all three. I don't think you do that. I think you have to keep at least one of the three between Messi, Busquets, and Alba, right? You've got to have at least one of them. So if I've got to choose between those three to see who's going to stay on the field, to me, Messi is one of the ones that has locked the most minutes and he's the oldest. You've got Busquets, I believe has locked the second amount of minutes between those three, and Alba seems to be the freshest. So I think Alba's going to start. I think Alba's going to be there. I think our back line is going to be almost the same. I think you rest Kristoff, because he's the older from that defensive line. He's also the one that's locked the most minutes. So I can see Kamal and Aviles starting as center backs, and then you still got Yedlin on the right. You've got two veterans on the team. You've got your captain in Yedlin, you've got Jordi Alba, so at least you're pretty well set there. I see Arroyo probably coming in for Busquets along with John Mota. Let's give him a second chance. I know I was a bit tough on him on our postgame, so we'll give him a second chance. To me, is it going to be Gomez or is it going to be Kramaski? That to me is it. Kramaski's young. I think he can handle the load of time that he's played, but I would lean towards Diego Gomez. Let's give him an opportunity and I think Kramaski sits, and then Facundo Farias has to see minutes, right? I mean, after what we saw, and if there was ever a time to start getting him acclimated to that starting role, I think we see Facundo Farias from the start. I think we see Leo Campana, you rest Joseph, and then on the right to me, on the right wing, that's where I'm iffy. Taylor has logged minutes. Do you want to put Taylor in? Do you want to put Robbie Robinson in? So I think there's a bit to play with there, but that's kind of like what I see right now. I definitely see Messi and Busi sitting. I see Alaba starting, and then you can kind of tinker between there and try to figure it out, but we won't know until tomorrow, but I definitely see some players resting for sure. So here's where between the League's Cup and the U.S. Open Cup, the number of players who have logged the most minutes for Inter Miami thus far. Drake Callender obviously has played every single minute, 750. The second player under Drake Callender is Sergey Kristov with 733 minutes. Under him is Lionel Messi, 684. Under Lionel Messi, Sergio Busquets, 678. Then you have Yedlin, Miller, Taylor, Arroyo, all above 600. Joseph Martinez, after not starting last match, with 512. Jordi Alba coming in a little bit later at 501. And then just under Jordi Alba is 461 minutes. So those are the guys who have been... Jordi Alba already have over 500 minutes? 501 minutes for Jordi Alba. That surprises me, because I feel like he's been going out for Noah. Like, I feel like Noah Allen's been getting a good amount, and he came later than everyone. That really surprises me. Noah hasn't seen the field in quite... I agree that it feels like that, but I don't think Noah's seen the field other than in that semifinal for quite some time. We played in the Philadelphia game, because remember, he got the foul and Messi covered for him. Yeah, and that was what? But he came on in the... I think he came on stoppage time, if I'm not mistaken. I guess I have no concept of time, honestly. That's very possible. I just never... I wouldn't have guessed Jordi Alba. But here's the thing about Noah Allen. Between Benjamin Krameski's 461 minutes, there's a huge gap in between Krameski and Noah Allen, who's the next in line for minutes. It's Noah Allen at 261 minutes. A 200-minute difference between Noah Allen and Benjamin Krameski, who's up to 461, and then every other player is down after that. The guys like Diego Gomez... You're talking two and a half games. That's insane. Yeah, yeah. Diego Gomez, Facundo Farias, Thomas Aviles. Those are the guys that are just now, like you said, getting acclimated to this starting role that they're primed to see down the stretch. I do believe you see Facundo Farias start. I think that what you saw from him coming off the bench was lively, to say the least. He was energetic. He loved being on the ball. He could dribble through anybody. He's the one that I look at and I say, oh, Miami are going to have a hard time keeping him. I think Miami are going to struggle to keep him around for more than a couple of years because he looks good. But we'll see how that plays out. That's what we think is good. If you get to those and they go straight... They go to Europe after a good two-year shift, you're going to start seeing bigger talent start to do that, you know? Exactly. And then with Sergey Kristov at 733 minutes, a guy like Thomas Aviles could probably step in and maybe play in a back four alongside Kamal Miller. Or use a back three, use Kamal Miller, Noah Allen. And Toto Aviles, I mean, there are other variations that Tata Martino can play with. And then for Diego Gomez as well, I mean, you've got Arroyo and Kremeski on this list. That's 608 minutes for Arroyo and 461 for Kremeski. I do agree though, Gian, Kremeski is young, should be ready to go. Arroyo just got his rest. Unless there's a lingering injury, he should be able to go in this one. I think Miami would benefit from Dixon Arroyo playing. So there are a lot of rotations that are possible. And this is where the depth comes into play. And right now, you know, in middle to late August, going into September when things are getting tight in MLS leading up to, you know, decision day, this is where the depth has come into play historically. And Miami have struggled over the last two seasons to get over the hump. They've done it. They've done it once or twice under field level, I guess, or once really. And then there was one year where they missed out. But right now it looks like Tata Martino has a side that you can use rotation and still be a competitive team in MLS. This is not the same team that has 18 points in 22 games. It's not at all. With all six reinforcements that they brought in the way that other players are starting to play because of the impact of waiting on Messi and and the rest of them. This is a completely different team. So you have plug and play kind of guys. And we talked about this postgame as well. You have plug and play kind of guys where you can tinker with the formation if you need to. But in reality, I think there are some some straight swaps that that kind of work. So we'll see what kind of happens. Is there anybody that you guys kind of are hoping is in the starting lineup outside of maybe Lionel Messi? But like in terms of the guys that we've named who haven't played as much, is there someone that you would really want to see against Red Bulls? I would have liked to see Noah Allen. Noah Allen. OK. Yeah, I would I'd like to see Aviles and Facundo Farias, because I first of all, I think that I don't think I think obvious Aviles did a pretty good job on Wednesday for being, you know, thrust into that role with the tough with the formation that didn't end up being, you know, working out. But I think he did a good job. I think, you know, Christoph is not going to be able to. He's not certainly not the forever solution. And I agree. He's starting it has to wear and tear and being beat on those one on ones like it's starting to add up for him, even though he did a lot of great, you know, he gets rid of fires pretty well. But I'd like to see that. And then one hundred percent Facundo Farias. I think him. I hope Kramashke gets to start. I think Mota and Kramashke would be good, because I think what you actually what they're going to have to try and do is you have to try and bring some of what Messi brings like in small increments. And so I think that Mota brings the creativity and the not just being, you know, basic, OK, go out to the wing and send it across. He will have some creative ideas to try and keep defense on their toes. And then funny enough, I think Kramashke has the discipline, actually, and the and the calmness that Messi has in some instances, obviously not to his level, but to be able to if they if everyone, you know, gets a little ahead of themselves, if they have a breakaway, if they need to kind of reset, he actually seems to be really on top of those things. And so I can see a midfield of Arroyo, Kramashke and Mota being a good start, because, well, I really I think Gomez is a lot of potential. I wouldn't want to have like I wouldn't want to not have Messi plus have him try to be like Messi. I agree 100 percent. Yeah, you be a little too ambitious. And so I'm good with his ambition when Messi is on the pitch, when Busquets is on the pitch, when, you know, they're not always perfect, but you're good with it if you have people who are going to be able to back you up. And I think while I think Mota also sort of similar in that way, where he thinks more forward than backward, he at least has, I think, the more experience and more calmness to be able to try and pick and choose his moments. And I think if Busquets is off the pitch, Tata will give Mota that instruction to say, hey, relax a little bit, play a role that that we really need right now. Don't try and, you know, over exasperate yourself and go too forward. And I think Mota has shown that he can be disciplined in that role before, and he could probably accelerate or excel in that again without Sergio Busquets on the fit on the field. And one thing I want to mention, you did say that you thought Thomas Avalos had a good game. And I do agree that he had a good game. And one thing that I noticed, and I just checked the stats to see if I was backed up, is that Thomas Avalos in that back five was really trying to press the ball forward. And compared to Sergei Kristov, who played 120 minutes, Thomas Avalos still had more passes into the final third in his 78 minutes played. So over 40 minutes less played for Thomas Avalos had more passes into the final third and Sergei Kristof. And we've seen how good Kristof has been at that. He's gotten the assist off of it, for Christ's sake. So I think that that's important, especially if they want to be a team that builds out from the back and going against the Red Bull side that likes to press who might make you uncomfortable in the press if you are holding the ball too long. And we saw Miami struggle with that against Cincinnati. So I think someone who could be a good option is Thomas Avalos because he's a ball playing center back that can progress forward, especially with the midfield without Sergio Busquets. Sometimes it's going to have to move at a quicker pace than it would be in a slow buildup. So that is definitely an option. And that's something to watch out for, too, I think with New York, because you mentioned it like they press normally at times, but they also press a lot right after losing possession of the ball to get quick recuperation. And that's something that we definitely did see a lot of forced errors on either side when getting pressed and not figuring out how to get the ball forward and trying to play the ball back and just losing it there that led to a lot of counters. So I think that that's definitely something we're going to have to watch out with with New York is just that quick turnaround. We lose the ball. We're not just going to let Inter have it and try to build out. We're going to press you literally right away as soon as we lose that ball. So that's something that I definitely think Avalos is going to help with because he can even play like a defensive midfielder. He has the ability to play defense, but also be able to distribute and also push the ball forward. So that's going to be key. And if Busquets is sitting, I think that's why you see Mota in the game as well, because he's more of the experienced kind of guy in midfield who will be able to carry somebody like Benjamin Kramersky if he starts in Dixon Arroyo, who's more of the enforcer rather than the passer and the connector. You need somebody in there who can make those kinds of plays. Jean Mota right now with everything with everybody who's healthy or not on the roster, he's probably the insertion over over Sergio Busquets. Yeah, I think also you'll see a little bit more defense, a defensive position, I think, out of Yedlin to be able to use his pace to to help with when it's a counterattacking. And I think you're going to get Robert Taylor starting on the right with a lot of leeway. And basically, like, I really think Tata's going to let him cook like, you know. And so, yeah, I think you're going to see Yedlin back a little and Robbie Taylor forward. I think I think what he's going to try and do is a four through three then, Yeah, I think it's a four three three. Okay. Yeah, that's what I hope. I hope it's a four three three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't really like the back five. Yeah, we're the top three. It's going to be Facundo Farias. It's going to be Campana and it's going to be Robbie Taylor, I think would be. And with that midfield, we said, I think those are ways where you're trying. You're not recreating, obviously, the greatest player to ever play, but you're trying to keep some of the flow and the kind of, you know, offensive runs and crisp passing, things like that, that we've started to instill. And when we we've gone away from that, that's when we've really seen problems. So I think those kind of players try and help appease that a little bit. Yeah, I just want to touch on something Ashley said that I always just want to say that I agree with you in regards to Yedlin probably playing a bit more back just because when we look at New York and the way they play a couple of things on offense, at least if we become too offensive and we've got, again, I mean, we talk about this literally every pod, how our fullbacks are literally all the way up and we get killed on the counter. A team like New York likes to push up with a lot of numbers. A lot of times they've got eight on the attack and they leave their two center backs defending. So if we're caught lacking with really small numbers in the back, that's going to be a big issue for us. Not to mention Red Bull, Red Bull also like to play on the wings very much and they like to use token in Harper. They're, they basically become like wingbacks and man, if our two fullbacks are up top, we're going to get killed on, on those, on those sides and what those two like to do, which is a good news for us because we don't do so well with in the aerial defending aerial passes as we've seen from that and, and, and corners. But what token and Harper typically like to do is, is attack on the wing and put passes on the ground and allow, and usually those passes on the ground are charged like the first post. So you're going to see their center forwards trying to make that a quick run to the, to the first post and try to tap it in. So I think that that's something to keep an eye out for, but most definitely, I think that that's something that that's going to recognize. And, and to what you said, actually probably keep yelling a bit more, a bit more back and, and having Arroyo there, if Busquets doesn't start is going to be key because we know he, he gets very involved in the defense. He's a pit bull and he likes to make sure he he's, he's in the right spaces. He doesn't push too high up. Well, one thing I'll, I'll add there is that in this last match against Cincinnati, they did come out with a back five or three center back formation, we'll call it. And you saw Jordi Alba and DeAndre Yedlin out in the wing, depending on the position of the ball, when Miami were in possession, they were kind of acting like the, when we talked about this post game, it was very fluid and you saw a quote unquote back four, depending on if Jordi Alba was raised up to pitch or depending on if DeAndre Yedlin was raised up to pitch. And so I think that is you know, depending on the rotation, what Tata Martino wants to do, if Noah Allen is going to come in as a third center back, if you know, Kamal Miller is good enough to go that you have maybe Noah Allen, Tomas Aviles and Kamal Miller without Sergei Kristof, if he's rotated, then you can play DeAndre Yedlin and Jordi Alba on the wings and just make sure, because I really didn't see them get caught out too much against Cincinnati. Granted Cincinnati don't play, you know, a formation where they attack the wings. That's not what they do. They like to attack up the middle with Luciano Acosta and Brandon Vasquez. And that's kind of what you saw. It wasn't until the second half when you had, you know, Alvis Powell gets subbed on and he was making those runs from left back or right back wherever trying to dart through. But throughout the match, that wasn't really a threat, I think. And so obviously the personnel is definitely one key difference between Red Bulls and Cincinnati, but I thought that they were disciplined enough to not get caught out. And that's kind of making me think that Tata might stay with a back five only because he can use without Lionel Messi. You can use Yedlin or Alba if he's to start for some help going forward. And I also think that with younger, more inexperienced defenders like Noah Allen coming in for possibly Sergei Kristof to get extra help and aid for those dangerous wingers if they stay disciplined, of course, to stay back, to get the help when John Tolkien comes in and makes that that first that first ball, depending if it's on the ground to the top box, wherever. I think that the numbers will help Miami. And a lot of the times we've seen Miami get caught out with numbers. It's been because of the back four, because you see Yedlin push up or Alba push up and then you're left with two lone center backs and you have to rely on Sergio Busquets or Dixon Arroyo dropping in. And so I think that without risking a midfielder, granted, we're going to be down Busquets. Maybe Arroyo does play and that changes everything and he is going to be used as a third center back at times, especially when defending in transition. But without Sergio Busquets there, without that kind of key maestro to retain possession and not lose it and give up transitional offense, maybe you do see a back five. Maybe you do see you see a kind of like what do they call those? Slipping my mind, but you just see something rotating back and forth and back and forth, depending on the position of a pendulum. Exactly. So that's what I see the back line doing, just going back and forth and back and forth. But I just don't want to see an overly defensive game plan. That's what I don't want. So I think that if you go Jordi Alba, Noah Allen, Kamal Miller, Tomas Aviles and DeAndre Edlin, that's your back five. Then I think, honestly, you just keep Robert Taylor on the bench. You get the midfield three that you guys had just mentioned and you put Farias and Campana next to each other. That's kind of how I see it. That hurts my soul. I just don't like the overly defensive game plan because Miami is a team that thrives with possession. And when we do that, like we give possession to the other team. And that's just, I feel like, I don't know. I just don't like sitting back and waiting for them to attack and then taking what they give us. And that's kind of like, I felt like last game played out against Cincinnati, especially more so than anything in the second half that it's like a lot of suffering and especially, I'm sorry, but I don't think this team that we're facing in New York, it requires a defensive, an overly defensive lineup. I don't know. What do you think requires numbers though, in that middle part of the field to make sure you have triangles to beat the press. That's kind of where my head is at too, with that. I think that without Sergio Busquets and Messi there to be able to combine off of passes and break lines, if you have eight men in the middle third of the pitch while you're trying to control possession and build up into an attack that is having to endure a Red Bulls press, whether it was off of a heavy touch or whatnot, then it helps you. You just have a numbers advantage. And I think that Red Bulls might try and play a numbers advantage in midfield. And you have to go ahead and mitigate that with a numbers advantage of your own. I'm not sure that that's how it's going to go. That's kind of just where my head is at. We're literally coming up with this. I hadn't really thought about this before the pod, but the more that you guys have spewed information my way and your guys' thoughts and how I've been thinking about Red Bulls, this is kind of what's making sense to me, especially what we saw against Cincinnati. You're like, you two don't know at all what you're talking about. Let me tell you. And again, head is all over the place because, again, we don't know if Busquets is going to start. We don't know if Messi is going to start. We're kind of seems like we're all pretty content with the fact that they're not going to start and Miami have enough to come off the bench to get a result. And we're kind of accepting the fact that they won't be there to play the first at least 45 minutes. I mean, we're under that assumption, it seems like. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out. Yeah, we're trying to figure out what to do outside of that, because we've never had to discuss something like this, not since July 21st. Yeah. And but I would also say that and this is maybe for people who are listening who are planning on going to the game tomorrow or watching and are nervous or unsure, you know, I would say that unless it's like anywhere like four or five nil either way, Messi is going to be playing the second half like it would take, I think, a huge problem, like a huge swing either way for him not to play. So, you know, I think you will see people who are going and etc. Like you will see he will play in New York, he will, he will get his minutes. Hopefully, we're winning and he gets to kind of come in in the 70th minute. But like I said, unless it's a landslide, I can't imagine there's a situation where he doesn't play at least 30 minutes. And there was another interesting quote from Totes Martino from the hotel today where they did a press conference and he was asked about the outside influence, aka fans paying ridiculous prices to get into an away match or a home match for them, but just a match away from South Florida. And if that affects his decision on whether or not to play Messi direct quote, I understand the expectations the rest of the world has to watch him. And that is undeniable. It is like that wherever he plays, but I cannot act based on that because then I would risk doing things wrong. That was an end quote. So I think that there is a level of not necessarily concern, but they are going to be conservative with Lionel Messi. And I think that there were some other quotes that I saw that it would go like this and into 2024 as well. Is he going to be able to play a 50 game season with CONCACAF champions cup leagues cup us open cup and MLS next season. Playoffs may be included, maybe up to 60 games in a calendar year at his age at his level. That's not something you really want to risk. You want to be put into the positions to obviously win tournaments. And luckily Miami are there right now other than an MLS and they've already won one and now they're in a final and another. So it's now just taking priority over the longevity of the player, making sure he can see out the two and a half years comfortably and going from there. So again, he might not start, but as Ashley had just mentioned, I still think you depending on the way the game is going, you still see him appear in this one. Yeah, I do. I think that that is going to do what's best for the team at the end of the day. Is it's he's cognizant of the fact that the fans want to see him. He's cognizant of the fact that the TV ratings depend, like he knows all this stuff, but I don't think he gives it that much importance. He wants to make sure that he gets his job done and that's to make inter Miami a successful team and keep his players healthy and not overexert them. But one of the things as you, as we're talking about this, and I wonder because MLS is a lot different than a lot of the leagues in the world, the way it's run, the way it's structured. And it almost reminds me of what we've seen like in the NBA where teams sit players out, right? Exactly. With teams to sit players out for marquee games, maybe a Christmas day game, maybe a Thanksgiving game. And the league has stepped in and said, Hey, you can't be, you can't be doing that. So with, with Adidas, with Apple TV being involved in everybody getting to it with the MLS, trying to make this messy acquisition, making it possible for, for Miami. And maybe Ashley could talk on this because she's more of an expert than me on this thing. I just like, what are your thoughts? I wonder if that MLS would even step, step in, or, I mean, I don't know how much that even matters again, two different leagues, but it's just something interesting to think about. Well, I would say that I think that there is, I'd be shocked if there wasn't something in the agreement and his agreement and just the MLS Apple, like that play, like you have to play a certain percentage of overall game time, maybe 60 or 70, like something in that window that unless there's an injury you have to play X amount. But it's certainly not a hundred. And yeah, I mean, he's so far played pretty close to a hundred. So, so yeah, I, I think that there's like, in terms of how they're going to plan it for the next year and things like that, I think you're going to see that he's going to play in almost every single game, how much he plays in every single game, I think would differ. I think you're going to, I would say that you, you'll see him for at least 20 minutes in almost every single game. I think, you know, unless there's like a big, like a rest or international or some, you know, certain little things like, yeah, they can get away with, but yeah, that's, that would be my prediction is that there's a percentage that they have to a threshold to me in order to get X amount of like for him to get X amount of money for him to get X amount of subscription revenue, MLS, the league, et cetera. Well, let me hit you guys with a bit of reality is, and the reality is Miami are in 15th place on 18 points. And it would only make sense for Messi to play in a hundred percent of the games. If they want to realize the chance of making the playoffs, let's, let's talk about this and, and, and kind of where you think they, they stand in terms of the playoff push. And if it's a reachable goal, so 18 points, 15th place, their last in the, in the Eastern conference, they have to make it up to ninth and in ninth place right now is Chicago, who they do have one game against. It will be played at soldier field in October on 32 points. So a 14 point gap between ninth and 15th place. However, Miami do have two games in hand on most teams above two or more. The only team that they don't have two games in hand on are Charlotte FC. They only have one game in hand, but they do play Charlotte FC twice down the stretch. The one game that got postponed and the last game of the season. So in reality, they can go ahead and make up points there. New York Red Bulls sit in 11th place on 29 points. So just three points outside of Chicago. And if for that ninth place spot. And what I said to Gian in the post game show was that games and MLS one on the road are the most valuable. And the reason why that is, is because not only is it the most hard to come by in major league soccer, every single team struggles winning on the road. I think right now, actually, other than Orlando, I think they have the best away record, at least in the Eastern conference. Most teams do struggle to win on the road, but drive pink stadium has voted really well for Miami, even when they were struggling in terms of getting results. So I'm not going to necessarily chalk up every single home result to Miami and say they're going to win them all. But I'm pretty, I'm a lot more confident in those games than I am the games on the road. So not only is this game valuable because you're playing on the road, but you're playing a direct competitor in New York Red Bulls who sit four places above you and you're trying to make up 11 points behind this team 11, which is a lot and 11 points behind 11th place, not even ninth. In reality, no matter what, this playoff push comes down to the final two, maybe last game of the season. Mathematically, that is the only way it happens. Because there are 12 games, they can get up to about 54 points if they win every single game in regulation, no ties at all. And that might not even be enough to get a home playoff spot. Because when you look at a team like Cincinnati, who's already on 51 points, at first place in the east, 54 kind of just puts you middle of the road. And that's why winning every single game over the last like three seasons, I believe the number is the average for the final spot and MLS playoffs, or at least in ninth or eighth place has been 45 points. So you know, you're 27 points away. And that's why I've said over the course of the history of the show is that nine out of the 12 games are what Miami really needs to win, but still leaves a very small margin for error. That's not counting ties. It's nine straight wins out of 12. They need to hit that threshold just to have a chance at breaking into the playoffs. Luckily, it's been expanded. Instead of seven teams, it's now nine with the play in game and whatnot. But it's going to be tough. And so I'm curious to hear your guys's thoughts on how Miami other than this game, because of course, there is the shortest break that they'll have, it's only two days. But other than this game, how do you as a manager as an organization, look at this and say, Do we just stop caring? Or do we really want to go ahead and make this push? Is it worth it to take the risk and make this push at the playoffs? And after Saturday, what should be the plan going forward? I think that I think that it's doable, although very difficult. And I think that one thing that they have to do in order to make sure that they don't kind of, I guess, overexert themselves, or let it take over them psychologically is just take it one game at a time. Because when you really look at the entire picture, it could be a bit daunting to think, Hey, man, we're down 14 points. We've got to win, like you said, like nine out of 12. That's I don't know if anybody's done that before made a playoff push that incredible right at the end. But it could be daunting. And soccer is a game, not only a physical game, but it's a psychological game. And you got to make sure that when you go into every game, that, you know, you just focus on that one, what's at hand, try to get the win. And they have to be nearly perfect. But I think that from what we've seen, sheesh, they look pretty nearly perfect so far. So I don't, I don't think that it's something impossible. I think that they're going to man, they've got their work cut out for them. They're going to have to deal with switching teams at times or switching personnel at times for rest purposes, sometimes for world cup call-outs. I know that Argentina plays Ecuador actually coming up in September. So, you know, Argentina is going to have their, their camp and their game as well. So we might miss have some messy, a messy game that we, you know, where he's our game rather where messy is not playing. So those are things to take into consideration. But I think that one of the, you know, I think that again, just taking it one game at a time where you had mentioned before Austin is also, yeah, you know, there's going to be teams that are on our way or that aren't in that playoff spot. And those are the teams that you want to focus on making sure that you, you jump ahead of those are the teams that, as you said, it's not just three points. It's basically like gaining six points because you're taking away three points from those teams that are ahead of you that are out of a playoff spot. And then you're gaining three more, right? So those are going to be some of the most important games because you and me had discussed like, what are the games where you're going to be like, okay, maybe we can sit some, some, some players out. Maybe we can, you know, tinker the lineups. And especially because you have games in hand. That's exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You've got two extra from these teams. Exactly. Exactly. You have some games in hand. So you want to make sure that you're very, this is something that is going to have to do is be very strategic. When do I tinker the lineup? When don't I, when do I have them rest? That sort of thing. So just to kind of to end is I think I think we can make it. I think that it's going to be difficult. And some of the most difficult things are, I think are the sweetest at the end. And, uh, and lastly, how can you not dream about the league's cup, a us open cup final coming up and, uh, getting to the playoffs is it would be just insane. And then just throw, if you get into the playoffs, man, you got a treble opportunity there. I don't want to get, I don't want to jinx myself or get too ahead of it. So I'm going to stop right here. Okay. I, um, I feel similarly. I think that they're going to keep making it competitive because it's good for the league. It's good for the team. It's good for the culture. Um, I would be very surprised if they didn't make the play and to be honest with you, like, I think they'll, I think they could be the ninth or eighth team. I don't think they're going to get, I don't think there'll be a top four, but, and I mean, again, there's a lot of factors we don't know about. Um, but I, I'll just, that's all I'll say is I think I'd be very surprised if they didn't make the top nine and, and, you know, there's a lot of quality on this team now and the more time they have to figure it out, the better. So I think we're going to continue to get stronger. And it's about, I think that like these next few fixtures that we have away with New York home against Nashville, these are really big games to be able to, you know, help with the trajectory of us, like continuing on that playoff push, giving all players in the rotation, um, confidence, et cetera. With all of that said, thank you so much, everybody for tuning in inter-Miami and Lionel Messi finally getting to return, or at least for inter-Miami return, but Lionel Messi will take part in his first ever MLS action on Saturday night against New York Red Bulls away from home at Red Bull Arena at 7 30 PM on Apple TV. Uh, you definitely won't want to miss it. If he does start, if he comes off the bench, uh, we'll see if all of our takes have been invalidated in about 24 hours starting lineup. Exactly. We don't know what's going to happen, but again, thank you so much for listening. If you haven't already make sure you follow us on Twitter at Messi and co, uh, we're tweeting out all of our podcast content and live tweeting throughout the games as well. Uh, so if you want anything, you don't want to miss it. It's all there. Uh, and if you're listening on any podcast platform, whether it's Apple, Spotify, Google, et cetera, make sure you follow the show, rate the show and leave us your comments on Twitter because we can get to those as well. And if you're watching on YouTube, five reasons sports network, make sure you subscribe, turn on the notifications, like the video. Um, and for Ashley, for Gian and myself, everybody at Messi and co and five reasons sports, we will see you after the game, uh, from our desktops. Uh, uh, and depending on the result, we'll be in a great mood or a little bit less of a mood. Um, but thank you so much for listening, everybody. We'll see you guys next time.