The Rise of Flash: Jorge Sedano on Dwyane Wade | Five on the Floor

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PrizePix is our daily fantasy partner. And again, when you use the code 5FIVE, you get that money right away. You do not have to wait, and there's lots of different ways to play. So go to PrizePix, use the code 5FIVE. And now, today's episode. Welcome to Five on the Floor, a daily insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA, featuring Ethan Skolnik, Greg Silvander, and Alex Toledo, plus others from the Five Reasons Sports Network. Welcome back to Five on the Floor. Here's today's floor plan. I've got Greg Silvander. You can follow him at Greg Silvander. And joining us for about the 13th time, we've got George Sedano. You can follow him at Sedano. And of course, he's out on the west coast, but his heart is still here in Miami. So we're continuing our Thank You, D. Wade series. Episode one aired yesterday. You can still find it on the podcast feeds. Tony Fiorentino flashed his ring, told some stories from the innocent beginning. Okay, so that started with Dwyane Wade getting drafted by the Miami Heat. Fifth overall, becoming a Rookie of the Year candidate for a good portion of that season, leading a team to a 42 and 40 record, which ended up being the fourth seed. Went over New Orleans in the first round, and of course, six games against Indiana before they finally fell out. Today, we're going to go to the next phase here, the flash phase, and that's the phase after Shaquille O'Neal came. Of course, Lamar Odom was with the Heat for Dwayne's first season, but Lamar was traded along with Karan Butler, Brian Grant, to get Shaquille O'Neal. Nobody thought Shaquille was going to be available that summer, necessarily. He had a contract dispute, other issues with the Lakers owner, Jerry Buss. Pat Riley was meeting with Jerry Buss, where Jerry Buss was kind of trying to get him to take the job out there and run the organization, and then it turned out that he found out, oh, Shaq's available, and Shaq was available to the Heat, but did not want to come to the Heat if Dwayne Wade was going to be going the other direction. That was the piece he wanted to play with, and we closed last episode with Tony Fiorentino and all of us talking about the fact that if Dwayne hadn't had that rookie season and the Heat had not gotten to the playoffs and gotten to the second round, Shaq probably never comes to Miami because there wouldn't have been a piece to play with. So a lot of that resonates today. But George, I'm going to go to you. Let's start here on the, on the old four or five season, because it seemed like everything changed. Shaq shows up with the water guns and everything and the big, that was the celebration before the big three celebration, right? He's out there with the tanker, the tanker in the front of the arena. And promised a title. Yeah, promised a title. Alex Pinellas gave him the key to the city. Don't you remember that? I wonder if he still works. Well, it wasn't left under the mat, but nonetheless, it was, it was, it was still given to him. And I'm trying to think what else? Oh, he did that press conference inside the arena where you and I love to still chuckle about these things. Cause when everyone, like someone like of that stature has ever been in Miami, it, what happens is what I like to call when news attacks, which is the sports people are there, but there's also like the news people who don't really follow sports, the way we follow sports and cover sports. And then there's all sorts of wild questions, which to, I believe Shaq once to one of those questions talked about how he wanted to tan naked in his house at star Island that used to be owned by Ronnie cycling. So I remember that too. Yes, of course. And like you said, the news attacks and then also Shaq very early on got to know who Barry Jackson was. That was always funny. Barry Jackson, Barry Jackson, Barry Jackson. He had a different tone with him than Zoe used to have. It just shows how long Barry has been around and how those relationships have grown. But the big thing that Shaq did from the very beginning. And I think this is so important when we talk about Dwayne is he anointed Dwayne, right? I mean, he gave him the nickname and in a lot of ways he changed Dwayne and, and we've, we, you know, Pat Riley spoke. I asked Pat the question today, he did a conference call with us. We tweeted a lot of that stuff out. And we talked about Dwayne growing as a human being and maturing and all that. Dwayne was shy his first year. Like he really was like, but Shaq kind of got him out of his shell. I've said that actually the two most difficult years covering Dwayne as a media member were kind of the first two years with Shaq because I felt he was changing. They would make up stories about being in the gym to trick the media when that wasn't actually true, playing all kinds of games. But he made in Dwayne. In some ways he anointed him as a celebrity, kind of like his next Kobe, but the one he was going to get along with. Right. That was that was right. That was different. So anyway, well, what was that? Oh, go. I'm going to bring Greg in here in a second. But I mean, I mean, you notice the same thing as a media member. Yes, there's no question. So I'll give you an example. When Dwayne was a rookie, I believe, if I recall correctly, there was channel four used to do a show called the Miccosukee Sports Wrap. Yes, I was on it many times, actually. Yes. And Dwayne was a guest one time and Dwayne got bumped, if I recall correctly, early in his rookie season. Like that would have never happened clearly after that. OK, so yeah, he was a shy kid. It's funny because I actually just finished recording a piece for SportsCenter that just covers his basketball career and what he's meant to the NBA. And it starts that way. A shy kid from Chicago. And and that's who he was. Shaq definitely brought him out of his shell. Right. And when you think about it, that's a lot to deal with. At 23 years old, you go from the shy kid from Chicago who burst on the scene at Marquette, you know, in the Elite Eight and going to the final four. It was the first time Marquette had been there since 77. And then he gets to Miami, 22 years old, plays really well as a rookie. Bright lights are on. He takes Baron Davis, crosses him up, wins game one, as you mentioned, whatever. But then that stuff is all cool. But Shaq is a different level, to your point, of celebrity and fame. He is a global icon at this point and arguably the best player in the sport. Right. So on top of all that stuff, then you've got a 23 year old player who he wanted to anoint in under his wing. Right. For lack of a better phrase. And yeah, there was a different level of growth there. And I think that he realized very quickly this is a business. And I think Shaq helped him understand this is a business. You're a brand. You have to understand that. And that's why he never got bumped ever again on Mikazuki Sports Wrap, for example. I did, George, but he never did. I will say. Right. Or I would say maybe it never even appeared, to be honest with you again, because he's like, I remember they bumped me that one time. So, yes, I think all that happened. And let's face it, his game unlocked in a way to playing with Shaq, like a lot of guys historically who played with Shaq. But he really took his game to a different level. That's on Shaq to some extent, but it's mostly on him for sure. George, I'm glad I'm glad you mentioned the basketball aspect and that you're going to be queuing something up on ESPN. I'll be watching out for that because I want to go here with you. Shaq was like he was second in MVP voting that that first season in Miami, if I remember correctly, behind Nash was robbed by Steve Nash. Thank you. Actually, Steve Nash, but the media. But so and let's also just so that we're all clear, Ethan and George were members of the media at this time. I was merely just a fan hiding as lefty life. And as I'm looking back, by the way, if you want to really tie this thing together, I believe the picture of Dwayne hitting the shot over Baron Davis, if you walk somewhere in the bowels of the arena going up like from the garage, there's that photo somewhere. And you can see Ethan sitting there with probably very similar glasses, looking up like exact same glasses. Yeah, no, they've been broken several times. No, I was looking up on the baseline. Actually, I mentioned that photo in the episode with Tony. It's it's it is still there in the in the bowels. It is. It is. No, but hear me out. Hear me out. So Shaq, he's twenty three and ten to two point three blocks. I'm looking back at the stats now. He played seventy three games at a big piece to do with it. But this is what's crazy. And you mentioned unlocking Dwayne's game. So here's why I'd like to pick your brain. Dwayne averaged twenty four or almost seven assists, five rebounds. And I'm thinking back as I'm looking at this and obviously it's just sheer statistics. Why the hell wasn't Dwayne in the MVP race when you look at his stats? And I just think it to me, it showed that what happened in the playoffs when he rose to that next level, he was able to sustain that and build on it in the next season. And just from your perspective, I know Shaq was the MVP that year, but Dwayne had a hell of a season. And I think it goes under the radar a little bit because we go straight to 06, which we're that's where we're going to go next. But I think 05 Dwayne deserves his due. Oh, I don't think there's any question. Look, I I will still say that if Dwayne doesn't get hurt in that Detroit series and he tore some rib cartilage, it's very similar if you're a football fan to the injury that Justin Herbert had this past season for the chargers. If he doesn't get hurt and that, you know, in the immediacy of it, right, like they shot him up, he played, he missed one game, the game in Detroit, Eddie Jones had a miserable game in that game and they get blasted in Detroit. They come back to Miami and they rode Dwayne and, you know, Stan unapologetically, you know, wanted to ride Dwayne Wade. And look, it's easy to second guess Stan in that scenario. And clearly Shaq did. But, you know, Dwayne was incredible in the first half of that game. And then my guess is whatever they gave him wore off and the injury started to hurt him more again. But if they win that series against Detroit, I think they beat San Antonio or at least have a legit shot of beating San Antonio that year. Yeah, I think it would have been a great series. Actually, you're underplaying that to say that Shaq kind of blamed Stan. I told this story on playback yesterday after that season, I was working on a freelance piece for USA Today about charity work among premium athletes, and they did a photo shoot with Shaq and work done at the Delano. Right. And the only thing that Shaq I was with Shaq for six hours. This was after the 2005 loss. It was about a month afterwards over the summer. The only thing Shaq took time from speaking the language of every model who came in, the only thing he took time out from doing that was to complain about Stan. It was literally like five hours of complaining about Stan. And I just knew that he didn't even know me well, honestly. And he just spent the whole time in front of a reporter complaining about Stan. And I just you knew going to the next season. And obviously, there were a lot of things that went on with Stan that year and stories that were told that were wrong, stories that weren't told that were right, all that kind of stuff. But a big part of it was Shaq had checked out on Stan and that and we know that and that that was you know, they've acknowledged that after the fact. But I just you mentioned the playoffs here, and I want to touch on this before we kind of move ahead to 2006. OK, because what Dwayne did in the 2005 playoffs got overlooked because really Shaq missed two games of the second series. They swept the Nets and they swept the Washington right. And so actually started the last couple of games. So it come back late in the 2005 season. They and they swept those games with Dwayne essentially leading the way. So it was not counted on to be much of a score at that stage. And Dwayne really carried them to that Easter Conference finals against the Detroit team that, for those who don't remember, is one of the best defensive teams in NBA history for its era. I mean, you're talking about they had elite defenders across the board. And obviously, that's a team that would win a championship during that period of time. And they had one Hall of Famer who was actually their least heralded guy. It was Ben Wallace. But right. Yeah. Chauncey was the best player. He was the best player. And OK, how about this? How about this? Chauncey was the most consistent player right on the team. Rip was incredible. Tayshaun was very good. Rashid had the highest ceiling of them all. But Ben was the defensive stalwart. Right. Yeah, for sure. Well, and imagine if they had added Carmelo to that group instead of Darko and what that they would have been a dynastic run is what they would have had. Yeah. Like, I mean, who knows if Shaq is even enough in that scenario for Miami to get over the and Carmelo's narrative would be completely different if that had been the case, if he'd been drafted there instead of Denver. But I mean, maybe Dwayne, to be honest with you, we'd be talking. Would you rather be the Pistons? Yeah, I don't know if I want to go that far. But I'll but but I think what we see is you see the leap with elite players, but typically for most it comes kind of third year, fourth year. I think what happened with Shaq accelerated the leap. Yes. He gave Dwayne the space to do what I think Dwayne would have ultimately done anyway. But Dwayne was also able to move off the ball more that season. You know, Damon Jones did a nice job for them that year. I mean, he was here's a good analogy to your point there. Dwayne Dwayne, regardless, would have been a jet plane taking off the runway. Right. What Shaq did was turn him into a rocket ship. Yeah. Right. That went straight up very quickly and got to where it needed to get to. Yeah. And again, I think you look at that 2005 playoff series with the Pistons. They had them beat. I mean, they had them beat it. I covered every game of that series, home and road game six. You just knew they had no chance. You saw the look in Eddie's eyes. No, no disrespect to Eddie, who played a big role during those teams. And, you know, my feeling is on Eddie George. And I was always an Eddie supporter, but it was I was. But it was deer in the headlights and you just knew there was no chance. And that's why Stan fed Dwayne in game seven, because he knew he couldn't count really on anybody else. Well, and here's the thing. Remember, Dwayne's game one was one of the worst playoff performances that he's ever had, ever. I know everyone talks about that five point game against Indiana. I feel like this one was probably worse, even though he scored 16 points. I have never seen Dwayne Wade be as inefficient. You have like eight turnovers. And it was it was an awful performance. It was almost like a one game one, didn't they? No, they lost game one. Oh, that's right. You're right. They lost game one in 2005. It was one of the worst playoff performances Dwayne ever had. He bounced back in game two, had 40. That's what game two. So they should have been up to heading to Detroit. And then remember, they won game three. So they would have if Dwayne has an average Dwayne game, OK, in game one, they're up three. Oh, in that scenario. And they probably you're right. They had them. They had them. And then they got hurt. Well, I don't think they I don't think Detroit ever really figured him out. Like they know that they did a number on Kobe in the 2004 finals, but they should do a number. Yeah, they did not. They didn't. Tayshaun was was Rip was really good defender on Dwayne, but they did not. They did not have him. Tayshaun's not the prototype that bothered Dwayne. It was the it was the Heinrich types that smaller, stronger, sturdier base types. Right. It was Dwayne was too fast for Tayshaun is the problem. Right. Remember, Kobe is is is longer and bigger than Dwayne by several inches. So I think that I think that also played more into Tayshaun at the time, too. And Kobe was willing to be more reliant on his outside jumper, whereas Dwayne was going to be particularly at that time of his career, was going to be relentless in attacking. But, yeah, you could have made the case they would have been up three. Oh, in that series, if Dwayne just has an average game one in that 2005 series. Yeah, no doubt. All right. We're going to talk more about what happened. The transition 2005, 2006. I know George wants to get to this because he always hangs it over my head. So we will get to that in a second. We do want to mention a couple of great sponsors of the Five Reasons Sports Network, our friend Lynette. 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You were like, oh, you're trading for an old Gary Payton, Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, James Poe. Like you were so cozy. I like to close. One GP played 80 games. Wait. Revisionist history. OK. I liked it. You liked it in comparison to the other one. No, I thought he was a heat player. The other three. You said he's fine to use my words. A GP GP was a heat players whole career. I just felt at that point, no, just you thought he was too old to respect Aaron Goodman, the one to Miami. But don't don't come here now and say you like, but you said, quote, he's fine. He was fine. He was a good fit for the right. But don't but it's great accountability. Let's let's let's make it seem like you liked him at the time. You hated that. All those all those moves. You hated them all. No, I loved it. Let's address. I don't care. Greg and I don't care. George, here's what I'm saying. OK, I did not like the J. Will and Antoine moves because I didn't think that they would be able to get them to play. I didn't think they would be able to get them play in the system. And what actually happened? Yes. OK, with J. Will is he played too much in the system? Yeah, it worked out. But they couldn't get the white chocolate out of him anymore. Like they they had it came out in that. Obviously, the clinching game against Detroit. Yeah. Well, he was just going ham shooting threes. Yeah, right. But but all the circus stuff like they took it out of his game or he took it out of his own game and he actually played pure point guard that season. It's not that I didn't like the Sacramento game, but it's just that I didn't think it would fit with what they were doing. I thought it would take the ball out of Dwayne's hands too much. And actually, he was a great backcourt partner to Dwayne. And look, Antoine accepted the role. It was kind of Posey was there half the time. Antoine was there the second half the time. I will say this, though, OK, I was right the next year. After they hoisted a banner. OK, I guess. And after after Antoine in the locker room said, I'm going to drink until trading camp. And he was a man of his word. He did. He and Posey both showed up out of shape and Pat had suspended. No sympathy. They both got suspended for it. And of course, that season ended with Lowell Dang sweeping them off the court. OK, but how about we get to the Miami and clapping them off the floor and how he just went half break. He went right by them. The finalist over a championship season like that, you just lost over a championship season. I just to say you were right in the end when everyone knew that that was a one year team. Well, can you tell the Gary Payton story? Oh, yeah, I can tell the Gary Payton story. OK, I'll tell the Gary Payton story. I'll tell the Gary Payton story and then and I will then we shall go back to discuss the championship season, which is, I believe, what you really brought me. I was flying over the parade. Honestly, I was flying. I had a trip planned because I was not expecting them to win a championship. So I actually the Gary Payton went over the taking LZ and just stop. Let him tell the GP story. Are you talking about the one in 2007 in Chicago with Wallace? Well, we were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Michael Wallace and I are sitting there and we are Chicago's United, the United Center in Chicago. I don't know if that's still the case. I haven't been there a long time, but the media used to sit right behind the basket right near the opponent's bench. And Michael and I were literally like seated towards closest to the tunnel. So Wallace and I are sitting there and they are getting blasted in Chicago. OK, and GP famously the year before in 2006, which we could discuss at some point, I'm sure. Remember, he got into that little tussle with Dwayne on the sideline and that was the year they eventually won. But the next year they're getting blasted by Chicago. They got a better team, right? Ben Wallace is there now. They thought they were going to be a championship team because they added Ben Wallace and Gary Payton is walking off the floor and he's fighting with somebody. I don't remember the specifics right now. He was arguing with somebody and Shaq or Zoe or somebody is pushing him aside as they're walking into the tunnel at halftime. And he's like, bleep that crap, man. I already got my ring. And Wallace and I looked at each other and go, OK, yeah, well, there you go. There goes this series. And I think that might have been game one. That's a great story. Yeah. So it just was it was bad at that point. Everything was bad. Pat had broken his hip. Right. Remember something like that today that Dwayne shouldn't have played with a separated shoulder. So I'm skimming ahead. But he said that that was a mistake. And coming back that year and of course, then the next year, it really bottomed out with 15 win season. That was the year Pat broke his hip. It was 2008. Can we talk about the championship? He took a scouting trip is what he took. Remember? Yeah, right. He took us. Well, do you ride in Chicago, right? Where he broke his hip, where he kicked the door and the door didn't go. The door went out instead of in and he kicked the door. Did you think this is what we talk about today? All right. So let's go back to five or six. Because here here's the way that I look at this. To me, Dwayne's finals performance is the greatest finals performance in NBA history. And I know that there are others that are statistically better. And I know you can make an argument for certainly LeBron and 16 is is one from the contemporary era that comes up. And Giannis just had an unbelievable statistical performance. But to me, it's this and it's no disrespect to Shaq because Shaq was a decoy, essentially because Avery Johnson made him one. Right. And didn't deviate. Avery Johnson's big adjustment during that series was to change hotels instead of change defensive. They went from Miami to Fort Lauderdale. Yeah, I came up to my deck of the woods. I still got a triple teaming Shaq. Right. Get double TV, Shaq. But no matter what Mark Cuban wants to say about this and all the rest of it, Dwayne essentially was a one man show. Like I understand that others had moments. GP had a huge shot and shot in game three that cleans. And so so had the 13 minutes of fury in game six. Yeah, but but really like from a scoring burden perspective, it essentially was give the ball to Dwayne and get the hell out of the way. And and also and again, also the two oh deficit and to be down 15 and I'm not going we're not going out like this 13 closest to MJ I've ever seen straight. Yes. And look, MJ people are certainly going to make comparisons, MJ, and they're going to talk about MJ's level of competition going six and oh in the finals. He played Hall of Famers in every single finals. MJ did, even if magic was advanced in age at that point. But in all the other series, whether it was Peyton, you know, Drexler or Barclay, he played Hall of Fame, by the way, in the magic. Don't forget. Don't forget. James Worthy is also a Hall of Famer and was on that team. Exactly. So a solo and it's not. But I just think from a singular performance to do that in your third season, Michael never did that in his third season. Kobe didn't do it in his third season. It is it is really, to me, the most remarkable finals performance of all time because that was actually a really good Dallas team. I think when you look at that Dallas team and compare it to the 11 team, I actually like the 06 Dallas team better. The 11 team had a lot of nice veterans spare parts around. But but the 06 team, I actually thought was more talented. Josh Howard was a really good player, really good player, really good player. They both had mistakes, but a really good player. And and and Jason Terry, I thought, was a better player, actually, in 06, 11. So I actually thought it was a better team that that Dwayne beat them as a heat fan back then. I'll just sneak in here and say before game one against Dallas in 06, I felt like, oh, crap, this is a juggernaut. Whereas in 11, it was a totally different vibe heading into that series. So I definitely see that just tap just disparity in roster. I mean, to your point, he averaged thirty five points a game for the series. OK, like that. And that's not Dwayne's thing. Like he's not the guy. Historically, if you look at his history, he's rarely been the guy to average over 30 in a series, mostly because he's wants to get everybody involved. Right. Like to some level. And he did not in that series because he couldn't write like they just it was it had to be him. And it was the time in his life where he was just like, to your point, I'm not going to go out that way. And to paint the picture more accurately, they're down to game three in Miami. And they got drubbed in the first couple of games. Right. Like I know that the score indicated that maybe they were closer than they were, but they got they got beat by double digits in both games and they weren't really that close. But he averaged 34.7 points per game in that series. And all of a sudden he turned into, to quote Spoh, a bleeping tornado out there like he just went nuts. And I think because of that, like, I think that in his third year to do that, to put everyone on his shoulders, a veteran team, by the way, and put them on his shoulders. I thought that took an extraordinary amount of, let's call it testicular fortitude. Right. To be able to pull that off the way he did down to game three, the fans in Miami, either booing or sitting on their hands. And then they're down 13 in the fourth. They get a bucket timeout, Dallas. They get a couple buckets. Dallas gets another bucket timeout six and a half minutes to go. It's an 11 point game at that point. Dwayne then scores nine points the rest of the way and gets a couple of guys involved. GP hits the big shot. And the famous I'm not going out like that saying in that huddle got them to victory. And then they never looked back at that point because, yeah, game six was hard as hell. Don't get me wrong. But people forget, you know, they blew them out in game four. Like, they completely took Dallas's spirit in game three. Okay. As much as people say, oh, Miami took the Spurs spirit in game seven. That was not the case because, yes, they hit the Ray Allen shot, but the Spurs almost won game seven. Yeah. It was like the heat going into game seven Boston of this past playoffs. Right. So like they blew Dallas's doors off in, in game four, they were completely disparate. Now game five was different. Miami barely survived that one. Dwayne had 43 in that one. So Dallas had regained some of its composure. And then there was the famous Riley one suit, one tie thing or whatever. And, and, you know, Shaq tells the story that he was checking people's luggage and stuff and it's kind of hilarious. And then, yeah, they, they win that game. Dwayne has 36. Zoe has 13 minutes of hell. You know, Shaq gets into foul trouble in that game. But yeah, Posey hit big shots. Udonis hit big shots in that game six. He had that big steal, if you recall correctly, and hit those two free throws. So yeah, like that series really is what put him on the, like, okay, let's do it this way. If the Shaq season prior put him on the map in a way that we had never seen before, this took him to all timer status already in year three, which is kind of wild. Like if you think of sports, right? Maybe Derek Jeter is probably the only person that you could think of that was put on the scene that young, that quickly on that kind of stage where they excelled in a way that we didn't anticipate, right? Because to your point with LeBron, he was the chosen one. We were expecting greatness the whole time, right? With Jordan, by the time he got to the finals, it was already year seven. Dwayne is year three doing this and having one of the greatest performances we've ever seen in NBA finals history. So I want to ask a question that, and I don't want to be negative here to close this. Oh, here we go. No, no, I don't want to be negative, but I just, as a heat observer, heat fans and all that, when we say that and we say, okay, in his third season, Dwayne was essentially top of the sport. I mean, Pat said that today. I don't think anybody could deny it. You can make an argument because I think some people misread the quote a little bit that Kobe was actually playing at a higher level overall. But if you're talking about in oh six, if you look at what he did that year, but if you're talking about just obviously the finals performance and Dwayne was in the finals and did it in the finals, which is when it means the most. And obviously Dwayne would go on, you know, after he came back from the shoulder injury and the knee stuff and everything else. And he had two incredible seasons that kind of got lost to history because the team was kind of holding tight with the exception of the sort of flirtation with bringing Lamar back, uh, you know, holding tight for 2010. And then of course, Dwayne has a really good first season, uh, with 2010, 2011, he likely would have been finals MVP. If LeBron doesn't bleep the bed, if LeBron has an average series, they win that series and Dwayne is finals MVP. But, but I always say this, do we get the LeBron that we got the following season? Cause he probably doesn't go into the lab with a team and work on his post game and then create the pace and space offense. Maybe that happens, but maybe it doesn't. Well, and Pat even said today that he had a meeting with the three of them and basically said, look, we got to have a pecking order. And Dwayne moved over to number two and kind of let LeBron cook. And that's a lot of what happened, but I guess in the context of this, there's no way you can say a hall of fame career is a disappointing career in any way. Uh, he is in my view, the third, uh, best shooting guard ever. And you can make a case that his peak was as high as the second as anyone. Right. Okay. Maybe not number one guy, but as, as the number two guy. Um, but, but I do think that when you look back at it, we're like, when you look at him being finals MVP at his age, um, that there is some disappointment that the injuries robbed of what, but that's not his fault. Right. I'm not blaming him. No, it's the fault of a doctor that shaved his meniscus in college. Okay. But I'm just saying the decision, but, but I do think that that is where, if you look at kind of what could have been, you say, okay, he was, he was the best player in the world. Um, and not just, you know, six finals, but, but I do believe in oh eight, oh nine. Um, he should have won the MVP. I know you finished third. I think I know LeBron one, but Dwight, I think finished second and actually there was more of a case maybe to be made even for Dwight than there was for, for LeBron that year. But, uh, but whatever, I mean, they were all deserving, but Dwayne should have been the guy, I think, uh, you know, it came down to wins, but I look at the team that Dwayne was playing with an oh eight, oh nine, uh, and, and tell me that that was a playoff team. Uh, if he's even just superhuman instead of being unbelievably superhuman. Um, but, but I, I do think when I, when I, when I look back at it, I say, okay, in oh six and now we've all kind of gotten old and it's 17 years later and all the rest of this, but I, I, you felt like you were watching Jordan. And I know there was this comparison to Jordan that Pat made today about how we can kind of snake on the ground and all the rest of this and play with that kind of strength. And, and I just, I just wonder, you know, some of it was his own frustration with having to carry a team by himself in a way through 10, get me help. But that kind of hurt his legacy a little bit because he did have to side to the side a little bit for LeBron. We never really got to see Dwayne carry again in a high leverage situation. We saw it in oh six. They didn't get the chance in oh seven because they got swept out of the first round. Oh, eight was a disaster. Oh, nine and 10. He got beaten the first round, which was had, you know, he was unbelievable. And then he was kind of like all about LeBron after that. Right. And, and, and, and to me, that's why. Although it is about LeBron, unless you really watched the games. Right. So like, I'll give you an example, game four in 2013 against San Antonio, where he went for 30 points and had six steals in the game. Pop put Tiago splitter on him to start the game, which I asked pop about after the game and pop tore my head off. But yes, that, that was right. So yes, but, but you, you got moments, right? You got moments, you got flash, but that's what happens. That's what happens when, to your point earlier that Pat and him and everyone decided there needed to be a pecking order. Well, and let's sneak one more thing in here. As we talk about Dwayne in these years, like he repeatedly, like he was on his rookie contract here, but I just think like the sacrifices he made throughout the years. And that's in further episodes also bring into context, just how great he was. But I know that we don't want to skip too far ahead because he didn't take Yeah, no, for sure. But, but here, here's what I'll say. Okay. About the the beginning, right? Because at the beginning we saw a star being born basically. Right. And we saw him grow up. And I think those subsequent years you mentioned, Ethan, that, that we were robbed of seeing him at his best because of injuries. I think, yeah, it sucks. Right. But I also think it made him a little different too. And I mean that in a positive way where he then realized, okay, yeah, I I've got to rebuild myself. I've got to change the way I play a little bit. I've got to make myself stronger. I got to do things differently. And, you know, we didn't know what he was going to be after that disaster 0 7 0 8 season. And then we saw him in Beijing and we were like, holy moly. Right. And in the biggest moments, like Dwayne Wade has always done, whether it was in college at Marquette, the NBA finals, whatever it is, the biggest stages he performed. And in Beijing, when they were playing in the gold medal game, Kobe and LeBron were in foul trouble to start that game. Both were on the bench with two fouls and who saved the day with 27 points. Dwayne Wade, who was interviewed at the end of the game with Kobe Bryant, who, who had 20 points and clinched the game. Don't get me wrong. But Dwayne was there with Kobe, with Craig Sager at the end of that one, celebrating those two who were contemporaries and, you know, obviously had an immense amount of respect for each other. And even Kobe said, you know, this guy, this guy carried us in those moments. You know what I mean? Like in that interview. And I think that those are things you need to know as you get ready for the subsequent episodes. And that's and we'll talk about this in future episodes. But that is why I enjoyed the 15, 16 run because purple shirt guy, purple shirt guy. And Dwayne did have to carry in that postseason. Goran struggled during certain games. Hassan got hurt, as we know, underperformed. And then Bosch was out. And so it was back on Dwayne again. And you're right. He had to adjust his game. So, you know, I think and, you know, look, and then obviously Dwayne lost the flash nickname and he didn't want it anymore. And that's why, you know, he went from flash. Remember, there was the in-between years he went to. Wow. Remember, I don't know what the hell that was. Yeah, well, that was well, that was way of way. Right. Brandon. Right. And then he was. And then at the end, you know, he was father prime after the LeBron. I like the father prime stuff better, although the one he hated was vintage. I remember. Oh, he hated that phrase. And then he ended up he ended up starting a wine company like, you know, he ended up doing all these things that that he didn't say at the time. I will say this, like I said, I think the other thing you mentioned him as a as a as a player and how he had to evolve, but he evolved as a person to, like I said, he. Oh, no question. He was the flash personality during the flash. I didn't listen to all of it yet. I've only caught a little bit of it, but I thought Dan nailed this when he interviewed with him. And I know it was released today that he talked about what incredible growth he made as a human being. Right. And not only a leader on the floor and a leader of men, but a leader in life. Right. Like what he's been able to do and be this this family person and this family man and lead his family in what's not, if we're being honest, not the easiest of situations right to navigate publicly. Right. Let alone privately. Right. And he has done a masterful job at both. And I could not be more proud of him as a human being. Forget about the basketball stuff. Yeah, no doubt. All right. I do. I can't let you go without asking this one question outside of Dwayne. Does Dame end up in Miami before the season starts? Yes, I think so. Look, I think we'll see, you know, what Aaron Goodwin and Damian Lillard decide to do from a tactical standpoint, because camps open September 30th, October 1st, in that range somewhere around there. And if I were Aaron Goodwin and Damian Lillard, I would threaten to not show up. And I know that people are going to deal with some backlash immediate in the immediacy of it. But look, you're already dealing with the backlash to begin with. Right. So if you're going to go and do this, you might as well go to the mattresses on it. Right. To use the godfather phrase. But I think that if that happens, if you're Portland, you are running the risk of losing all the leverage, whatever leverage you may have at the moment. And, you know, my understanding of this, and I said this on NBA Today last week, is that Miami just wants to know what it is they actually want. Right. And because they haven't really communicated, they want clarity, right, on what it is they want, so they can give it to them. And if that means they have to go out and get more assets, then they're willing to do that. But they're not going to bid against themselves, as my colleague Brian Windhorst said on that same episode. So right now they have the best offer. And unless there's a better offer, we're going to be in a pretty interesting scenario and situation come the end of September. But we still have another six weeks or seven weeks till we get there. But I do think at the end of the day, he'll be in Miami. Yeah. And it is. It's like asking your date where they want to go to dinner and they don't give you an answer. That's kind of who Joe Cronin is at that point. Don't comment on him, George. And by the way, maybe it's not just Joe Cronin. Maybe there's more people than others above him that that also feel a certain way about this. Right. So and look, if if Portland's going to end up taking a deal that they deem lesser than at the very least, they drag this thing out. And at the end of the day, maybe they extract another thing or two and then they can say, well, we got more than what the original offer was. And their PR looks good. And, you know, we got Jaime Hawkins. We call it a day. Yeah, exactly. Well, we'll see how it plays out. I won't get you into any other politics on it because I know there's a lot of stuff going on with it. But hopefully Dame is in Miami because we've been talking about it for three months. And honestly, at this point, if it doesn't end up happening, nobody's going to listen to this. And if he gets to Miami, they're probably going to be. Well, I mean, I would definitely make them the favorite in the East, but they're probably going to be the biggest favorite in the East. And I would say that if I was picking a team to win a championship just with those three guys, because I trust the organization to fill the gaps, I think that they had they would be the championship favorite in that scenario. I think so, too. And I think that's part of because it fits right. Yes. Perfect. Like like we were just talking about the big three briefly. Right. And how there had to be a pecking order. It still didn't fit perfectly. You're right. If anything, you know, the big three of these of the modern era that fit the most seamlessly was Boston's. If you think about it, just as far as their games meshed. Now, there were some injury issues and whatever, and they didn't accomplish what one would have assumed they would have accomplished having only the one championship. But as far as their games were concerned with Paul and Ray and KG, and then, of course, you had Rondo and Perkins where they drafted like that stuff made a lot of sense on the floor. And this Dame, Bam, Jimmy team would make a ton of sense on the floor. Sacrifices are easier for this group than they were for Wade Bosch. And yes, yes, yes. Much easier. Don't occupy the same spots on the floor. The ones who have I mean, Jimmy and Bam and and they somehow they've managed to get the three conference finals and two NBA finals. All right. You can follow Mets Adano. George, we always appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Thank you for not mentioning that I was wrong in 2005. All right. See you. Have a good night. Thank you for listening to the Five on the Floor on the Five Regional Sports Network.