UFO's Little Men -- Invasion Of The Gnomes

Now we are electrifying hosts of Exploring the Bizarre, Timothy Beckley and Tim Swartz. Tim! Tim, are you back? Oh, hey, there you are! What are you doing back here in the garden with the sprinkler can? I didn't know you had any interest in gardening. Watch it! You're getting too close to those garden gnomes and you may get them wet. They may fall over. Oh, don't talk so loud, Tim. Those are not ceramic figures. They're real gnomes keeping undercover. They don't like to be so easily recognized. People try to even steal them off of people's lawns thinking they can bring them good luck if they take them home with them. Don't you know anything about gnomes? Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard of. Gnomes are not real. They're just part of people's fantasies. Urban legends! Oh, that's what you think. I guess tonight we'll set the record straight for your sorry ass. Well, okay, let's get back to the KCR studio. And you're getting me all wet and it's pretty chilly out here as it is. Well, say goodbye to the gnomes. Aren't they cute? No. I swear, sometimes I don't know. Let's just go. Bye, fellas. See you later. Oh, boy. You know, why wouldn't you believe in gnomes, Tim? Oh, well, I mean, there is a long history, as you well know, Tim, of elemental types of creatures. I mean, all over the world for centuries, probably even a lot further back than that. And, I mean, there's been some really interesting photographs, especially from South America. That's right. Gnome-like creatures. It's hard to know what to call them. Well, you just put together, edited a book that's just a hair under 500 pages. It's Tim Schwartz's big book of incredible alien encounters. And there's some photographs in there of gnomes, just like you mentioned. And our guest tonight has contributed a chapter. So we know that gnomes are gnomes. Gnomes are gnomes? Gnomes are gnomes. And I'm wondering, you know, most gnomes seem to be men or male or something. I wonder if they come in female gnomes. I'd rather have a couple of female gnomes in my yard than male gnomes. But that's just, you know, my way of thinking, I suppose. Anyway, how are things out there in Jasper, Indiana? Oh, it's going well. We survived the holidays and now glad to be back in the KCR studios. You know, we had a great guest last week who called us all the way from Brazil. And our guest today, thank heavens for her. It's 4 o'clock in the morning where she's calling from. So bless Susan's heart for agreeing to get up so bright and early to be on Exploring the Bazaar with us. I can hear her heart pounding right over here. Anyway, do introduce our guest for the evening. And then we can get on with the serious discussion about gnomes. Well, we are so happy to have a return visit from our good friend, Susan Demeter Sinclair. And you mentioned that she has a chapter in our new book, Incredible Alien Encounters. And her chapter is called UFO Visitations and Rogue Occupants. Now, Susan is a professional research assistant, author, editor, and psi experimenter. Her research interests include individual and institutional responses to anomalies and exceptional human experiences. And how they interact and enact change within individuals, groups, and large institutions, such as the military. Now, her life took on the framework of UFO experience after her own encounter in 1990. And she continues anomalous studies to be her true life's work. She has established both Pararesearchers of Ontario and Paranormal Studies and Inquiry Canada as online educational resources for those wishing to explore the subject of anomalous events in Canada. And I guess now she's going to have to open a chapter there in Italy. So, Susan is a contributing author, as I said, for the newly released Tim Swartz's big book of Incredible Alien Encounters. And Robbie Graham's anthology, UFOs, reframing the debate. So, Susan, thank you very much for being back with us again on Exploring the Bizarre. Well, thank you for having me and Happy New Year, guys. Happy New Year to you, yeah. How do you like living in Italy? Well, you know, it's beautiful here, I have to admit. I'm still in that sort of honeymoon phase, not only in my life, because I recently got married, but with my new home in Italy. Yeah, it's beautiful. And thank you. Thank you so much. Are you in the city or in the countryside? I am in a medieval village in the mountain region of the Apennines in North Italy. And where I am is a very sort of magical place. There is a lot of Celtic as well as Etruscan sort of archaeological area. There's beautiful mountains. There's a lot of mythology surrounding these mountains, including sort of strange gnome-like characters and things. So, I have actually started a new website that I'm going to be working on periodically called Fortian Italy. So, that's going to start covering that. So, it'll be English language based at first. So, I have that as a project. And I'm also writing my own book on witchcraft, which is going to be primarily based in Central European sort of witch experience. And it's also going to have UFOs in it, because there's always UFOs. So, I've got a lot of projects going forward in 2020. Yeah, but right now I'm so excited to be part of your book. And thank you again for having me on the show. I love talking to you guys. I have to get a copy out to you. In fact, I don't have your current address. Well, let us start off with gnomes. Are gnomes known all over the world? Yeah, they are in various sort of guises. There's been a wide variety of little type people. I was recently reading a case here that was very well documented from the 1950s in Italy, where a woman described very traditional Snow White like dwarf beings with a UFO landing. So yeah, they are all over the world with different names. I'm probably really butchering that because it's 4am here and I don't speak really well Italian yet. Now, that case that you just mentioned, is that where the little people tried to steal the woman's stockings? Yes, that's the one. Ah, see, you can't pull one over on me. I know my gnomes. You know your gnomes and you know your UFOs. Yeah, that I do know. I remember there's a great illustration, I think it was on the cover of Fate magazine, back maybe in 1956 or something like that, where she's fighting off the little creatures as they try to run with her stockings and flowers. So there you go. Don't trust the gnome. Or should you trust the gnome? I mean, are gnomes good and bad? Or how do they fit on the scale of alien agenda hostility-wise? I think it depends on your experience with them and how you feel about a gnome stealing your stockings. I mean, I wouldn't be too happy with that. Some might give it over willingly, correct? Yeah. I think the gnomes are not, like, I don't think that they're necessarily evil, but all of these beings have some sort of sinister kind of side to them. And I guess he was traveling to visit his family in upstate. And tell us what happened, what his gnome experience was. But the experience that he had occurred more, I guess, in not really a rural area, but very much, like, outside of a major city he was visiting. And in three separate occasions, he heard sort of speaking to him. And he associated them with the garden gnomes that sort of these voices had led him to. And I thought of it almost like a, like, you know, like a computer icon sort of thing, like you see this icon, so he's hearing the voice, and he sees this. Yeah. Just like I've had with the gnomes. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Now, and I pose the question, do gnomes come in male and female, or are they all genderless? I always thought of them as sort of genderless, the gnomes. I mean, fairies usually are traditionally female, but I mean, there's male fairies too, I'm sure. I suppose you could have female gnomes. Oh, you mean the, maybe you're thinking of his, because he had another experience before that, a UFO experience. Okay, well, there was something that you described of like a green illuminated figure. Uh-huh. And it was a UFO, so I thought it was interesting that he had a UFO experience, didn't see any occupants or anything with this sort of strange green thing that was in the sky. Well, it sounds like an occupant itself. So here we are, sort of in this sing-songy kind of, I guess, fairy style of a voice. And then leading him to, because he said he followed their voices, they sort of led him to this yard where he saw these gnomes. So he sort of at that point realized that he was having an experience with something that was maybe supernatural, definitely. Well, okay, let us take it a step further. Have you had any experiences kind of along that line, or anything related? I did have experiences like that as a child. And when I was little, I just assumed that these sort of little beings that I was seeing were like ghosts. I thought that, and they scared me. And I had a few experiences like that, which I write about on my website, on my blog, I've written about the little man, and I didn't know what sort of to make of this as a child other than they scared me. But years later, I was talking with a friend, and I had become a researcher at that point, and sort of it was like, what I saw was like a little lamb-like, sort of like a little Aleister Crowley-like creature being, was sort of malevolent. And where was that? In Indian Point, and maybe Chernobyl even, with the sighting of some bird-like creature perhaps related to a mothman. Now, I see you put quite a bit of stock in the work, research done by Jacques Vallée. Obviously, his book, Passport to Begonia, which is certainly one of my all-time favorites, must have had an impact on you. And as I began spending more and more time with UFO witnesses, I realized that the most important thing was the witness and their story, because that's really what we have that's tangible with UFOs. It's the people that are experiencing them. But there's also a recent one that I did with a woman who's also an urban professional living in Toronto. She started having experiences with what she calls fairies, little light balls, but that also speak to her sort of in a telepathic way. But the experience brought her a lot of comfort, and then after sort of things got together and she got herself together with her job and sorted out things with her marriage and that, the fairies stopped coming. But she said prior to that, and coming from a South American culture that she came from, there really wasn't, she was surprised to have this particular experience in Canada. I hear the music. Yeah, unfortunately we are coming up to our bottom of the hour break. Let me go and fill my watering can here and get back into the yard for a few minutes and then we'll return in just a few minutes. Alright, we'll be back in just a few minutes, stay tuned. Now back to Exploring the Bazaar, with two of the most electrifying researchers in the paranormal, your hosts, Timothy Beckley and Tim Swartz. Welcome back to Exploring the Bazaar, I'm Tim Swartz. Tonight, our guest is Susan Demeter St. Claire, and we've been talking about UFOs, elementals, the wee folk, just all kinds of interesting things. Susan, one of the things that I've observed when it comes to the gnomes and elementals and a lot of the UFO occupants, and we've seen this for centuries, is that they're tiny. We call them dwarves, gnomes, things like that. There are a few exceptions of big elementals, but the majority of them are little. Stupid question, I suppose, but why do you think that is? That's a good question, and I really don't know why we conceive of them as so little. The only place I can think of them where they're consistently seemingly huge is in Western Australian, sort of the aboriginal Australians. Their concept of these sort of nature beings are huge, and they can be seven, eight feet tall. I don't know why. It's a good question. It goes back, they are just really tiny little beings. And it's almost universal as well. Yeah, almost. You look at all of these very diverse countries and societies, and practically everybody has these types of creatures, and they're usually always described as little. I've always found that interesting, and we continue that into the modern days with a lot of these UFO occupants, which are little as well. Again, it's not a hard and fast rule, but even now with the greys, they're always usually described as being about the size of children. Yeah, no, it's true. And it's a good question. It's one that I really don't have a good answer for. Probably I could come up with something, but it's like 4.30 in the morning for me. You're making me think too hard. Wait for your answer. I'll get back to you like three hours after the show's finished. No, no, actually, no, I don't know. But it is true in including these little beings that North American Aboriginal people, First Nations people have also described in their various lore, these little beings. I don't know why it is that they're all little. But they all tend to be very mischievous. So, yeah, they, you know, and similar to the Irish, you know, you have to sort of appease to them with little offerings and things, and then they'll be okay. Like, they can be like good little house spirits, too, and, you know, and do good things and find lost things and such, but, you know, you don't want to piss them off. But, again, they're similar. They're very similar in description and sort of their way of being little trickster-like characters. Well, and it's, you know, we're talking about UFO phenomena being, you know, obviously seems to have some kind of association with the elemental aspect of this. But she said that she remembers that because she was facing like the backyard window and she kept seeing these little people. That's why she described them flying by this window, close by this window in like little helicopter types of devices. But she said that there wasn't like a canopy or anything covering it so she could see like these little, and she described them as kind of like a greenish yellow in color. Just one after the other flying by her window. She said they were about the size of dolls and she kept trying to, you know, get her mother's attention to, you know, look what's going outside the window there. But naturally, you know, moms never pay attention to these things. And, you know, she insisted that this was something that actually happened to her. And I just always find it fascinating because of, and I know that you, you do as well. All of these stories that come to us from these people not interested in publicity or, you know, having, having their stories included in the book with these, these types of stories that don't fit, at least in modern times. You know, any kind of pattern or pigeonhole that we like to put these kinds of phenomena in. Yeah, no, and it's interesting to me because a lot of people do, when you sit down with a person, I mean, it's one thing to take a report, a UFO report, a more modern one, over the internet or that. But it's another thing to actually go and sit down with people, have a cup of coffee and talk to them. And I find when you do that, you find that there's actually usually a wealth of experience that goes back and even into the family. But it's something that you have to do in person. And they don't include that sort of information in a standard sort of UFO report that you might give to MUFON. And sometimes they realize that it sounds crazy, so they don't want to muddy up the more modern sort of adult interpretation of something they might have seen in the sky with strange experiences they had as a child. But I feel that it is in those details that maybe there might be something that can help us understand a little bit more what's going on here with the more modern UFO experience. There was another lady I talked to a few years ago. I actually worked with her, and she never told me her stories until after she retired. So after she retired, she said, you know, I know you're into UFOs, I have to tell you this. And she told me about these amazing experiences she had involving Lake Ontario. But prior to that, as a child, when she grew up in rural Ontario in the 1950s, she saw what she described as these little people driving this very tiny little car. And they actually drove this little car up these sort of hydropole and along these wires. And she said, you know, you think of this as a childhood thing, and you try and, you know, maybe I was imagining, but it's interesting that she had that. And then later, as a much older person, had these strange experiences involving the lake, including a triangular UFO in southern Ontario, but as an adult and with more than one witness. So, a really good report. But that little detail came out after. And like I said, you'd be surprised how many people have a history of other paranormal experiences, including with little people, before or after the UFO. That's a great story. I love that one. Well, okay, but then how many, how many UFO investigators would be willing to actually take down that kind of information if it was offered to them? I mean, maybe we're seeing a little bit more now, but it wasn't that long ago, if you had mentioned a story like that, they'd just tear up your UFO report and, you know, find the nearest exit. Well, yeah, and maybe that's why after, you know, 70-some-odd years, we really don't have a clue as to what the UFOs truly are. We just have opinions. I hate to be mean that way, but I mean, I think that that's why, too, like, with just that nuts-and-bolts approach, and I mean, there's a place for that, but I think that really, you have to look at the human being that is having these experiences. You know, I mean, animals might have these experiences, too, but obviously they can't communicate them to us. But, you know, the witness, I think, is the primary thing, and many people do have these experiences as children or as young people or even as adults. And I mean, this woman, I met with this woman, and she is, you know, an executive. This is a person, this is not somebody who is, you know, you might not think that a person like that would have these experiences as an adult, but she did. Maybe concentrate a little bit more on the person who is a tangible thing than, you know, the object, which, you know, unless you're there with them, you're not going to really know, you know? And now we live in the age of drones and things like that, it's very difficult to sort of say, well, what is it that this person has seen, unless we're there with them, right? You don't know. Now, the woman who had the experience with the light beams, who were basically giving her, you know, friendly and reassuring messages, that seems to be a little unusual when it comes to people's interactions with these elementals. It seems to me that the majority of the cases, the elementals are either, you know, they just basically ignore the people or run away, or, you know, sometimes act somewhat, you know, with a little bit of hostility. Well, yeah, no, sometimes they can be very hostile, but it's the same with the UFO experience, which in my opinion could be one and the same thing. Sometimes people have miraculous healing, sometimes they become healers, other times they've been traumatized and harmed, so I mean, I think it's the same thing with these sort of beings. I was part of an investigation of a case in Belgium, where a man was also having experiences with UFOs, larger lights in the sky, which he was trying to document scientifically. But at the same time, when probing his story, you find out that these experiences sort of began when there was a trauma within his family, and his wife was in a very bad state, and she started seeing these little light balls within the house. Like, they started experiencing it within the house, and then later on, they, with other witnesses, started seeing this light phenomena in the night sky. And there's like a whole history of that, there's some really good books out there in regards to the little light balls, and appearing at times of stress, appearing at times of death, and bringing comfort. So, they themselves, they're almost like a little UFO, these little Orbi-like things that people see and experience, and they could also be tied in with this elemental idea. The woman in Burlington said that when she would go out to the park, she would see these fairies, and they were like little light balls. But she could almost see little faces in them. Hmm. And she was wide awake, like, this was a wide awake, this was not like, I'm lying in bed and these things are happening and I couldn't be happy. She would go out, and she liked going to this park because, you know, she was stressed and that, and she would drop her kids off, and she would go and take her walk in the park, and she would see these little things. And they would give her these telepathic messages that were of, you know, it's gonna be okay kind of thing. And eventually, she sort of tied in that these light balls appeared at that very low moment of her time to give her comfort. To just sort of maybe let them know that there's more to life than, you know, what we might think, and that, and she found comfort eventually in these experiences with these light balls. So, you know, one person who has this experience may see and experience one thing, while another sees something completely different, you know, honed to their own individual taste is the only thing that I can think of. But, you know, there does, there seems to be a pattern with each person maybe being a little bit, you know, different, you know, one person sees one thing and another sees another, though a lot of times the messages are always about the same. Yeah, sure. And the thing is, is that I think it was Jacques Vallée who said it, that the bottom line with all these experiences seems to be the message that we are not alone. Whether these things are co-created with some other intelligence, or an alien, or coming from our inner earth, or wherever these, another dimension, wherever these experiences are originating, the core message seems to be we are not alone. but then a third person in the room will only see something like a light or a veil, something that's completely, you know, not looking like a person, and then two other people in the room will say, I saw nothing. That's sort of what I'm kind of going with now. And that was my, the first time I really heard of the co-creation was through my dear friend Greg Bishop, and this is sort of his idea and he's written about that, and it makes sense to me. And that's what Valet was saying already way back in 1969 with the passport to Magonia, which is so brilliant, even today. Yeah. And another guy goes, no, no, it's this way. And the UFO and the elemental phenomena seems to be very much the same thing. So obviously everything seems to be tapping into that same cosmic source. I think so, yeah. And just for me, it's like whenever I think I've got it figured out, I just, I discard it because I just, I think it's just so much more complex than we can even conceive of. All right, well, Susan, we'll go ahead, Tim. I just, oh, I just wanted to say, I know we're running short on time here, but I did want to send out my condolences to two close friends of the show, both of whom's spouses passed away within the last week or so. Rick Hilberg, his wife, Carol, who is a dear friend. I mean, we see her from time to time over the years past. And Greg Bishop's wife also passed away this week. And very, very sad news. You know, it's like I said, close friends of the show and of us. And I do want to say also, too, that you will be up late Sunday night because you will be a guest on Coast to Coast, Tim, talking about the incredible alien encounters. But we want to give Susan a chance to tell people where they can get in touch with her and her website and blog and so forth. So Susan, take it away. OK, if people want to explore more what my work, I've recently moved most of my stuff to a main hub, which is Susan Demeter. So all one word, susandemeter.com. I'm also on Facebook. I'm also on Twitter. So you can find me that way. And yeah, I'm always interested in hearing people's experiences, particularly as they relate to UFOs. And of course, I'm going to have this book coming out later in the year, both in Italian and in English, which will be about witchcraft. There will be a UFO element to it and also an elemental and fairy element to it as well. And I explore some of my own experiences. So, yeah, so a lot, a lot to look forward to this year. And it's always such a pleasure to talk to you both. Well, and I just feel so it is. It is. And I feel so privileged to be part of your book. And yeah, definitely. Tim, I will shoot you a PM probably on Facebook. I'll give you my address and I'd love to have a copy. Love it. All right. Yes. Our next book, if you have anything, is Strange Alien Artifacts. We're just collecting material now. And don't forget to tune into the archives here on KCOR and our YouTube page, Mr. UFO Secret Files, with some very spunky animation. And Tim, we'll be talking to you and be on the air listening to you on Sunday night. So over and out to everyone listening here. You've been listening to Exploring the Bizarre with hosts Timothy Beckley and Tim Swartz. We're taking back the night by jetting nonstop across the cosmos in search of the truly bizarre and totally unexplained with you as their co-writers. Thursday nights at 7 p.m. Pacific, 10 p.m. Eastern on the KCOR Digital Radio Network. For more information on Exploring the Bizarre and hosts Timothy Beckley and Tim Swartz, check out their KCOR Digital Radio Network page. Follow their YouTube channel at MRUFO1100. Exploring the Bizarre. www.KCOR.com