INEOS GRENADIER or LAND ROVER DEFENDER. Which one would you buy? 4xOverland

The Ineos Granadeer. How it's going to look has just been revealed to the world. Why do we need to get excited? If you are like me in that part of you still hankers for the old Land Rover, the way it was, the way it felt, you know that Land Rover thing and you yearn for it but you no longer really use Land Rovers because the Land Rover mark has changed utterly. But you look back with fond memories of what it once was and when Land Rover finally revealed the new Defender your heart sank because you just knew just by looking at it that it did not deserve the name Defender. That it was an utterly different vehicle to what the Defender was and what the Defender represented. And at that time you thought to yourself, well I do have, well the world has another card up its sleeve and that card is called the Ineos Granadeer. And when you, like me, saw that vehicle, the Granadeer for the first time, instead of your heart sinking your heart skipped a beat. Andrew St Pier White, join me as I share my passion for building four-wheel drive trucks and traveling to the remotest parts of the world. Let's get past the hype. Okay Mr Evans you're doing a great job. So everyone's talking about it there's a brand new 4x4 on the way but what exactly will be in store for us? Representing Ineos in the development of this new vehicle. You're asking good questions and you're bringing good reportage but it does sound like an advertorial. Ineos is creating the ladder frame in partnership with a highly experienced vehicle manufacturing company. Of course it's an advertorial. So there is some hype involved. For example, it seemed that the sort of last of the proper utility vehicles were about to stop. There was a character about them that we all kind of felt we were going to miss and you know you look around and there was nothing that was really very appealing and you know Jim being Jim, let's do something about it. And as we basically worked out what it was about the character of these older vehicles, what was the DNA that gave it that character, as we understood more you start to see why these vehicles start to look in the way they do. You know we didn't sort of set out to make it look like anything else it was just it was always of engineering led. Hold on a minute you're telling me that that design. Yeah we didn't sort of set out to make it look like anything else. Is purely engineering led and had nothing to do with the original Defender. You're not fooling anyone. Ladder frames have been the basis for some of the most iconic off-roaders for over 70 years starting with the Willys Jeep. So you could ask why would Ineos use anything else? We are not using a monocoque because we are not building an SUV. So yes I get that you love four-wheel drive and that you are passionate about Land Rovers and you are saddened by the demise of the Defender. I get that and you want to replace it. I get it. Don't tell me that there aren't major design influences that come directly from the Defender. I tell you what after months of only being able to look at computer generated models of the suspension. I must say I felt a certain kinship when he saw those new components for the first time. It is so cool to finally be able to touch some real parts but these are prototypes of course. There's a whole heap of testing and fine-tuning to go. Ineos has not been shy about sharing their information about the development of this new vehicle and that's unlike most vehicle manufacturers but there's a very good reason why they're doing it. You see when somebody's bringing out a new model of a vehicle they still want to sell the old model until the new model comes up and they want to they want the new model to be a big splash. Wow! Bang! Here's the new vehicle. We'll keep it secret and then we'll reveal it. Ineos has nothing to protect. They have no old models to protect. So when they say that they're doing it differently from most manufacturers it's completely logical that they should do that. They are building up the hype over a long period of time. Strong, stiff, rugged and reliable. Ready for mud, sand, rock. And wow it's effective because I cannot remember a time where I've had more requests on doing a review or summary you know what do you think of the new Granadier which means that people like me people who love four-wheel drive are saying hang on a minute there is a saviour out there because we've given up on Land Rover completely. I mean come on the new Defender is just a Land Rover Discovery 4. It's all it is. The Land Rover Discovery as a model has moved on it's become more luxurious and not as good off-road and so they've replaced it with something I'm sorry it has it has a little bit more payload than the Discovery 4 and that's it. You at Land Rover have created a car that will attract no new buyers because it's still expensive and it's still highly electronic and still has got that cursed thing called air suspension which is hopeless in remote travel because when it breaks it cannot be fixed. It is a rumour that Land Rover will offer the Defender short wheelbase with coil spring suspension. Irrefutable proof that they are not targeting the 4x4 enthusiast. So what have INEOS done differently? Where do I begin? So the engineers are in no doubt at all the Granadier skeleton will be a box section ladder frame. For example they've been boasting about solid axles front and rear. Yes no question. You want a really good off-roader you put solid axles on it. Every time a motor manufacturer decides to eliminate a solid axle from their catalogue of vehicles that they build they're actually retrograding in terms of off-road performance and off-road safety. There's no question about it. But here's something interesting if you look closely at the chassis five link that's that means something that is they could get away with three. Many manufacturers get away with three but they know look at a Nissan Patrol five link it's fantastically strong and it gives fantastic wheel articulation. So they're ticking one box after other. One of the worries of course is that they have copied the Land Rover Defender too much. So let's have a look at underneath. One of the weaknesses of the Defender was its A-frame locating arm. It's the arm that locates the axle to stop it moving sideways. One link here the panhard rod it goes from the chassis over here to the axle and its purpose is the guidance in lateral direction. So to stop the whole axle moving from side to side. You have to be strong because more or less the whole axle load in lateral direction guided by this link so this has to be massive. You've got radius arms that stop it moving longitudinally and a panhard rod or in the case of Defender and early Range Rover and early Discoveries an A-frame. Now the A-frame was not a good idea. It caused major axle tramp in those vehicles. The center ball wore very quickly. It had some issues and other manufacturers have proved that it didn't really work terribly well. They are not doing that with the Granadier. They have changed it for a traditional panhard rod and it's the same setup at the back. Where have you got to now in terms of developing the final suspension for Granadier? We have a great prototype setting now. We have a real great ground clearance, very high distortion angles on the axle itself. This enables a good traction on every off-road terrain you can think about. Obviously from what we're seeing this isn't bull. Those are really good components. They're not they're not slacking off when it comes to strength and durability. That's pretty obvious to me. There are other design cues as well that tells me that they are actually looking at some of the Japanese manufacturers. Down to the rear doors that you know we've got split door. We've got a really thin one that means you don't have to open the big heavy door with a wheel on it. You can just open the little door put your tool bag in there. Here you've got two doors full width, full width. Yes you recognize that that was a weakness in the Defender. You've got things like this sort of built-in utility rail and things that are kind of there. It's a canvas for people to go and build upon. What is probably the most significant single design element of this vehicle is that they have built it so that we can adapt it. We can play with it. We can change it and we can make it ours and that is the essence of the hobby called four-wheeling. I kind of say here's a vehicle that is massively capable off-road but it's kind of up to you to go and make it your own. So what stage are we at now? Coming out of Covid, coming out of that crisis we have lost some time here. We need to make it up. We are not jeopardizing the quality so we need to find ways of testing very hard, very rigorously. INEOS have been very clever in their marketing and their lead-up to this in that they've given these little glimpses not only of the vehicle itself but also of other vehicles being tested. I question this one here. Is this the INEOS chassis with a different body? What is that photo on the other side of you? That's actually a picture of the winter testing. That is the Grenadier? This is a Grenadier prototype running in Sweden, yes. Look at the departure angles and approach angle of this vehicle. It's very good and even lifted up at the sides. That's off-road thinking. The wheel sizes. That's a 16-inch rim with a tall profile tire. Thank you. Look at the back. Look how much axle wheel travel they've allowed for in the body which means that when that thing is going off-road it's going to be phenomenally good. Will it have an expensive traction control system? Don't count on it. I imagine they will put in differential locks. Thank you. We don't need more. Put in optional differential locks. Maybe rear one standard, front one optional. We don't need traction control. We're quite capable of driving the vehicle ourselves. Thank you. In fact, we prefer to drive the vehicle ourselves and not have a computer take over. Will it be as good off-road as, say, the new Defender by Land Rover? Yes, it will be as good off-road but it'll be a hundred times better at carrying a load off-road. It's not just off-road. What about carrying a load off-road? Having clever electronics is all very well when you're going for a weekend trail with the family but when you're crossing a desert, who wants it? We don't want it. So, styling-wise, yeah, I'm hesitant to use the word blatant because, sure, the styling cues are very strongly Defender and there's everything right about that. I have another question though. Where are you going to fit the driver in that configuration? I hope the driver is sitting far more forward than in a Defender because in a Defender, any of you who know, and particularly if you're a big person, you will know that the b-pillar hits you in the side of the head all the time. It's a terribly uncomfortable driving position but I think, given that you've made fundamental changes to the design in so many areas that we can see, I'm pretty confident that you're not going to repeat the faults of the Defender in the interior. We can't see that at the moment. There are no interior images at all so we have to guess and we have to hope that you're going to do a good job but this here is a figment of their imagination. My conclusion. I'm hugely optimistic. I'm massively optimistic but I don't want to put a damper on things but think about it. How many would they need to make to make this commercially viable? They would have to sell a certain number. Would they exceed the number of Land Rover Defenders as they used to be? Is that the kind of number you're looking at? You're probably looking at that kind of number as a guide. It's my guess but as a guide and you're saying if we can sell that number we can make a business of this. This is my guess that that was an early supposition when INEOS got together and decided that this was commercially viable. By the way that story in the pub. The story about a pub in London, the Grenadier, a bunch of blokes having a few beers. Sounds a bit fairy tale fantasy doesn't it? And coming up with this plan to build the ultimate off-roader. I believe you guys. Is that really what happened or was it a much more conventional brief? It pretty much was exactly that. It's in pubs where the world's greatest ideas begin. That Grenadier has Maurice Wilkes written all over it and of course I think he started by writing his drawing on the back of a cigarette packet and then on a beach somewhere. The outline of the first Land Rover. So it's a lovely story and the fact that you're calling it the Grenadier after the pub that you were in. That's kind of twee but also nice. It immediately and this is I like about it. Gives the vehicle an origin. It has no heritage but you're giving it a heritage and if the heritage only started in 2018 or whenever it was, well what's wrong with that? That's okay. But let's get down to realism. Who's going to sell it? Are they going to have INEOS dealers? One vehicle? One model with a few variants? Spare parts? Where are we going to get spare parts? It looks like engines both diesel and petrol will come from BMW and the gearbox automatic only from ZF. Good solid German engineering. How much is it going to cost? This is a specialized vehicle. What the Land Rover Defender in the UK when it was taken off the market was what? 28 000 pounds? Somewhere around there. They varied with the different configurations but in a four or five door with something like 28 000 pounds do you think that the Grenadier is going to be that amount? I guarantee you it'll be more. It will be more. How can it not be more? How can a very specialized vehicle with quite a small very keen yes but small market and small numbers of buyers they're going to pay more for an exclusive vehicle? I would consider buying one tomorrow but that's because I'm mad about four-wheel drive and it's what I do for a living and I would adore to get my hands on one just because a it looks so fantastic and all that we're seeing promises something really special. So I question how much it's going to cost? 40 000 pounds? 50 000 pounds? With that kind of price tag you're going to sell as many as you had hoped or need to sell. I of course cannot answer that but I do ask the question who is going to support the owners once they've purchased it? In the UK it's easier because it originates in the UK but if this is successful that vehicle is going to find its way to here in Australia. So I have an invitation for you guys now at INEOS. I know you're going to see this video. Yeah welcoming feedback and comments and it'd be great to get people to actually test it and drive it. My invitation to you is this you are going to have hundreds of people offering to test the vehicle off-road for you. You yourself will have places and people that you know and work with very closely in the UK to test this vehicle off-road and you will come back with some wonderful footage and wonderful stories about testing it off-road and doing your refinement tweaks which you will no doubt do. My invitation to you is that I will test it for you. I'm offering this test for you in Australia but this time it's not an off-road test. It's a long-distance touring test. The kind of tour where you have to carry a full load. Where you have to put the vehicle through its paces over a long period of time. Longevity. Hard punishment over week after week after week. Where are you going to get that done? And the other part is this. I want to work with you because well let's put it this way. A. I'd love to get my hands on it and B. Working with me it's a two-edged sword. If it breaks I'm going to tell everybody but if it doesn't I'm also going to tell everybody and people will believe me. So if you're really confident in what you've created it's a win-win-win-win for everybody. Actually especially me because I want to be one of the first to get my hands on it in Australia. But apart from that and I will do a major trip. We will do a major trip. Something spectacularly good. But I can also feed back a lot of information about its performance. So you can tweak some more. Which hopefully you will continue to do. So here I am excited about it. Looking forward to it. Nobody has given a date yet and when are we going to be able to get our hands on it. And if I see in my lifetime one motoring manufacturer bring in a new model and they bring a solid front axle back to that design. I will retire a very very happy man. Maybe this the Grenadier is what I was talking about and hoping for all along. Thank you for watching. Join me next time to find out more about the engineering of this radical new 4x4.