Mustang Shelby GT350R vs Camaro ZL1 - Rivalry | Everyday Driver TV Season 2

Mustang GT350, there are a couple of things we have to do just to start. One is exhaust to sport, there we go. The GT350 was magnificent and I came away loving that car against the prior generation Boss 302. This is the GT350R. It's up against the Camaro ZL1, it is not the 1LE because of the price. Also, it wasn't available when we did the shoot, that would be the biggest reason. But secondly, that 1LE pack will cost you $7,500 more than this. When Chevrolet released the ZL1, they said it was the car to compete with GT350R and the standard 350. They said one car covers both. Then later they went, just kidding, let's add the 1LE. These are the big boys. The car you drive every day should be fun, but it has to do the boring stuff too, like commute, be affordable, and haul your groceries. You can have both and we'll help you find it. Fun to drive cars and great driving experiences for everyone on Everyday Driver. Brought to you by Covercraft. This car turns my head whenever I see one, and it's not often you do. Ford has really done a great job managing the proportions of the car, going wider, going so muscular in squat. I love the front end of this Mustang. It's one of the most menacing front ends out there. When it comes up behind you, the whole impression in your rear view mirror is just, you need to move. There's nothing sensual about this car. It's all purposeful, which leads me to the interior. It wouldn't look out of place in a truck, and this is the same interior for all Mustangs. The good thing is, it's well built, and it's going to take abuse and it's going to be fine. The touch points, the materials where you're going to interact with the car are nice. Some of the rest of them are hard, basic plastics. This doesn't feel like a hugely upscale interior, especially for a $65,000, almost $70,000 car. It does not have the weird rattles we had in the center console with the lower grade interior of the GT350 we drove. I love the seats in here. They fit me perfectly. They don't let me move around. They have enough adjustment without being crazy. On the Camaro, I like the new styling. I like the proportions a lot better. Even though it's still a heavy car, it's looking lighter at least. And of course, this car being all in black, that sort of come hither, come do bad things that you shouldn't kind of look. This is one of the most sinister looking cars on the market. What's interesting is, it's sinister from the outside. It's sinister sitting in here as well. There is something kind of cool about sitting in a bunker and taking on the world. I am comfortable. I do like the driver's position here. I like the heads-up display. I feel pretty low and snug down in this car. The themes match the outside of the car. And to be honest, this is one of the more sensual designs I've seen. These seats hold me really well, and they're Recaros, just like the ones in the Mustang. But somehow, they're shorter. I'm not sliding out of them. They're fine for that. But I can't believe my takeaway on the seats is, I think they're short. Like the Mustang, the materials in here are really good in the places you're going to touch and in the places that you're just going to look at. Some of them are average plastics. But then there's moments of genius, like these vents here. Why haven't we always had vents like this, where the vent surround controls the temperature? Bravo to Chevy on that. 15 years ago, 20 years ago, the kind of numbers that this car puts down was only for supercars. Same 526-horsepower engine, no changes to that great, naturally-aspirated, really special flat-plane crank. I'll say it again, this car sounds like Chewbacca gargling. I got to touch that red line, there it is. This flat-plane crank and the architecture of the engine enables it to have a red line over 8,000 RPM. The torque kind of flattens out way up high. If you're a person who has decided that turbos are the king of all things, this is an engine to drive to change your mind. That was a multiple of the speed limit sign, which is probably not good, but that's what this car does. It makes you want to go that quickly. I am just so impressed with this engine note and the way that it just revs. It wants to rev. It feels like it's got power right off the floor. One of the big differences in the power delivery between this and that supercharged V8 in the Camaro is this car always feels ready to go and powerful. So the 350R is a manual transmission, six speeds here. It feels among the world's most precise transmissions. When we think about, oh, a car has a manual transmission, this is the feeling that we dream about. Paired to that is a clutch that... The clutch is hard to modulate. It feels like it's got kind of a grabby, all of a sudden cinch to it. And when you're in the midst of a pedal that changes its feel halfway through to begin with because of the way the spring is set up, this is one of the more awkward clutches I've worked with. This is the LT4 V8, which also lives in the C7 Corvette 06 and the Cadillac CTS-V. Now I understand the whole point of putting the same engine in different cars, but this car has now encroached on Corvettes. It's almost irrelevant which car you buy, Camaro or Corvette. They're so close in performance, and now they share the same engine. 650 horsepower, 650 pound-feet of torque. What that has done is make it like a Porsche, a modern Porsche, and by that I mean it disguises its speed. You don't really realize just how powerful this car is until you get your foot all the way to the floor. The engine is hiding its full personality. It doesn't reveal just how much explosive power it has until you really ask for more. This is one of those cars you look down and you're shocked by how fast you're going because it didn't seem like it was going that quickly. Is it weird that I kind of want to work for my speed? Is that strange? Is that just me? The Camaro ZL1 is a cheap superhero. I say that with awe and respect because 15 years ago, 20 years ago, the kind of numbers that this car puts down was only for supercars. And now you can get it for under 70 grand? The 1LE has the same amount of power as this car. It also is only in a manual transmission. But I feel like if Chevy is to get the buyers that they want for this car, they have to offer an automatic transmission. I cannot believe how much time I'm spending in triple digits in this review. And honestly, it's not some attempt to see how fast I can go. I just keep realizing, well, I'm there again. Oh look, I'm there again. Part of that is this unbelievably powerful engine and the other part of it is the fact that I have more gears than any human should ever be given. This transmission is a 10-speed transmission co-developed with Ford, ironically enough. Look at that. Three downshifts up to this corner. The car knows it's downshifting and it's bleeding speed like crazy, but it didn't upset the car. Ten gears, ten speeds. Have we reached peak transmission? I mean, what's the circus going to look like after this? What does the future look like? I don't know that more gears are going to solve the problem. Of course you could debate if we had had a manual transmission Camaro, we would feel more involved like we do in the Mustang. I agree with that. There would be that layer. But I was just intrigued by this transmission in general. When that transmission gets it right, it's very quick. And then a minute later, it'll drag a shift. I'm confused. I think that's it trying to learn me, but I'm not that complex. I'm really not. I want to go fast. I want to have a gear that makes loud noises. That's really what I want. Even though I'd probably take the manual transmission, bravo to GM for this one. I cannot fault them for creating the car like it is and understanding the engine that they're working with and starting with is going to lead to, they have to have ten gears to take advantage of this engine. Ten gears is just too many. The amazing thing about both these cars is they are affordable heroes. The performance you're getting is twice as expensive from everybody else. While it's comfortable, I'm in sport mode. I should be feeling more. It doesn't feel like a classic muscle car. We've left that now. We've gone into really high-end sports cars with a car like this. Get a lot of aero with the magnetic ride suspension that we had not driven in the 350. And it also gives you carbon fiber wheels. They are painted and then coated with ceramic plasma arc spray. It's the same stuff that was on the Space Shuttle engines because of the heat. The massive heat that these brakes generate. Despite the weight of this car, just over 3,700 pounds, I'm astonished at how nimble this car feels through corners. And I liken that to the wheels. These wheels cut the weight at each wheel by over half. Weight savings at all four corners like this fix the car in a dramatic way. And it makes for a much lighter steering feel. Oh, listen to that. If I think about what is the GT350, it's just theatrical. It's theatrical all the time. Ford's managed a unique combination. Somehow, they've created a car that feels remarkably analog and informative among a lot of other cars that start to feel kind of digital and distant. And yet, it also feels like the most modern, most refined Mustang dynamically I've ever driven. It doesn't feel like a classic muscle car. We've left that now. We've gone into really high-end sports cars with a car like this. This car is shoving information at you like no car I've ever driven. It's relentless. It's actually overload in a good way. This makes me want to break things and get in a fight with somebody. I've got the confidence I'm probably going to lose, but it instills in you a supreme confidence. It's up there with Porsche 911 GT3s and Nissan GT-Rs. There's very little body roll here, but quite a bit of disruption and bounce in the ride and the car being stiff over every little undulation. The entire Mustang lineup now has independent rear suspension, which has solved some of its mid-corner bump issues that prior Mustangs have had. However, this one adds back a suspension setup that is so stiff that you find yourself disrupted mid-corner anyway, but for different reasons. Bump would upset the car. But here, I'm liking the ride quality better despite the fact I feel in some of these corners the magnetic ride has picked the rear end of the car off the pavement and is just kind of following the car and floating. The information has gone away. Whereas the Ford is constantly shoving information at you, whether you like it or not. I'm searching for information in this car. While it's comfortable, I'm in sport mode. I should be feeling a lot of the road surface, the imperfections. I should be feeling more. And frankly, I'm disappointed with that. Both of these cars have magnetic suspensions, so as a result, they try to adjust very quickly. This Camaro is just a nicer ride overall. GM has some of the best chassis engineers out there, and driving this car right after the Mustang proves that again. Here's a car that I clearly feel would be great on a racetrack. And yet, any time it hits a bump, and even mid-corner that would throw the Mustang, this car just soaks it up and continues to grip. Steering ratio is significantly faster in the Camaro. It varies from about 11 to 1 to 15 to 1. But even at the 15 to 1, it's a sharper steering rack than the Mustang is all the time. The thing that amazes me about this Camaro in corners, though, is how unbelievably flat and planted it is. It makes the Mustang seem downright jittery. The corners that it's putting down, I want it to be less friendly. But I wonder if that's part of the appeal for enthusiasts to just come drive this car. You can control it. You can tame it. But then that's the dichotomy. Do you want something that is going to scare you a little bit and keep you on edge? Or do you want a car that you can master despite having all this power? But I did come away with a pretty strong decision. See, that's interesting to hear because I'm mixed. Everyday Driver is brought to you by Griot's Garage. Use the code EVERYDAY for 10% off your order. You have friends with a supercar and you have Mustang or Camaro money? Go run with your supercar friends. These can play with the biggest dogs out there. Gone are the days of the old muscle car cliches to the point that I would even argue these aren't even muscle cars anymore. These are sports cars with American historic nameplates on them. The 350R, for me, this car is one I would own. I'm not willing to pay markup, but should this become available, I would strongly consider this. It's the right balance between still having a bit of mystery about the upper limits of its performance and really, what is it like at 10 tenths on a racetrack? Using all of that performance on a canyon road like this? No way. You have to spend a lot more money to go faster or do what this car already does. So therefore, I do say it's a bargain, but not to overpay. I have to say I love the over-the-top theater of this car. I really do. This is like interacting with a very engaging, hyperactive child. Initially, you're kind of enraptured. You can't believe how much energy they have. You can't believe how much that energizes you and all the fun stories that they want to tell. And two hours later, you want them to sit down. It never calms down. The ride never gets calm. The steering never gets calm. The engine is always yelling, even if you put it in the normal mode. Now, I kind of like that in a car, but you have to be ready for that reality. This is my new drug. This GT350, I just want to abuse it over and over and over again. None of the inputs on the Camaro feel as sharp or over-the-top as they do on the Mustang. And it's more comfortable over bumps like this. But I want it to be sharper, harder somehow. Maybe the 1LE will do that for me. But this is the better choice, unless you're tracking the car constantly. If the Camaro has a downside, it's that it's trying to be all things to all people, and the Mustang just isn't worrying about it. Cars are that thing we love kind of irrationally, which is one of the reasons I compare them a lot of times to the relationships we have with people. This Camaro is like falling in love with somebody because they were the life of the party, only to start a life with them and realize a lot of the rest of the time, they're kind of doomed. This is a car that can just lope along and be your cruiser, and very much a GT car. And then, by the way, did you know it can tear your head off? This is what it's like shooting in the fall. It seems like it's nice out, and now it's snowing. It's snowing all of a sudden. We squeezed this shoot in, and I'm glad we did, because I came into it knowing that we've driven the 350. We liked it, but I thought, I'm going to just give it a clean slate. But I did come away with a pretty strong decision. See, that's interesting to hear, because I mixed all the way up to stepping up right now to be on camera. I'm still going, I don't really know, because these cars are amazing, but they're very different. And, I'm drawing a line in the sand, I'm sorry, 400 horsepower. We don't need any more than 400 horsepower. This is madness. I'm thinking the next generation of these cars are going to go to some sort of hybrid with electric assist, something like that, because what's next after this? To your point, Can you imagine the fallout for my muscle car as a hybrid? But my question is, what do you do after these cars? They're both so good. But that's the thing about my 400 horsepower comment. You can't entirely use these, and when you do, hang on, and then you look down at the speedo and go, I'm doing triple that size. That's why this was so interesting and hard for me, because the longer I drove the Camaro, the more I liked it. And I'm honestly not that big a fan of this 10-speed. First off, it's way too many gears. You put it in Drive, and it's like, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift, shift. You've got to put it in the manual and force it to be somewhere and then it sometimes plays nice. All it does is shift. Porsche car too many. Gears too many. Okay, I'm looking like the old guy right now, but here's the thing. I'm choosing the Mustang only because of the kind of cars I like. Their madness. They tell you everything all the time. This never shuts up and calms down. That can. Which, interestingly, this hides its speed like Porsches do. It does. There were some things about it that I liked the ride, but it left me without information that this car gave me. I ended up loving this car, loving the Mustang for the excitement. That's because it's only information. The Camaro will calm down and for a lot of people that's going to be better. We're just happy they exist, but who are you, Ford, Chevy? You got to decide. And the argument will rage. It's difficult to find fault with it because of what it does. This lights you up. I expected to go Camaro, and I think the Camaro is more well-rounded, but this is just a riot. I take the Mustang for the driving dynamics. I guess the dynamics have to take precedence when you're buying cars like this. This is brutal without being crude, which I can't say about the Mustang. It's bizarre to think that one of my big critiques of this car is I want to work harder for my speed. I can't really say many bad things about this car except for maybe get the manual. Otherwise, I just can't fall in love with it.