川普特使與烏克蘭等多國外交部長討論烏俄衝突

你所聽到的一切 首先是特朗普和普丁發出的電話 後來通知了Zelensky 接著是你對NATO的期望 美國國防部長稱為不真實的全球恢復 接著是Zelensky與特朗普的討論 後來與Vance討論 我知道你也有參與 我想請問你 你對此時感到有信心 美國會有你的支持 在任何的停止戰或和平討論中 非常感謝 這個機會 讓我們開始討論 我們的組織 來到伊朗 有另一種氣氛 現在我們 有更好的氣氛 更有信心 我們不孤單 我記得 當我們 三年前 從馬裏奧布爾 來到伊朗 參加紐約會議時 那段時間 所有的烏克蘭警告 都被拒絕 被拒絕 這次 從我的角度 我們有希望 我們真的 可以討論 歐洲的時機 沒有疑問 唯一的方法 能夠達成 長久的和平 對於歐洲 是和平 通過力量 而歐洲有一個方法 如何達成 和平 我們不應該 用 真正和平的詞彙 而是 和平 和長久和平 而不是 戰爭 我們不應該 重複 87年 前在 我們 在 更好的心情 我會回到 現在 你剛才說 歐洲在 任何和平討論 都不會在 桌上 這會有什麼效果 如果他們不在 因為川普說 歐洲需要 擁有 當你說歐洲需要擁有 在桌上 我的定義是在桌上 當你坐在桌上 對我來說 這意味著利益不是 他們沒有使用 他們沒有發展 這意味著在桌上 你擁有能力 但當你擁有 這三個 兩個合作夥伴 你擁有俄羅斯 你擁有現在正在對抗烏克蘭 而川普總統 正在進入 更好地說 我們只能用英文 來形容 但他會認為 他會獨立 我們從來沒有說過 這只是一個定義 當你說 我認為這就是我會挑戰任何人 當你看到 當我們說 美國第一 我們說美國第一從來沒有 獨立過 我們從來沒有說過 這是獨立的政策 當你看到川普的做法 我會挑戰人們 我說這戰爭已經發生了三年 三年 11年 我們說的是 三年 當你看到 當你擁有了美國總統 最低的措施可能是正確的 現在最低的措施 與我的措施相比 但告訴我 告訴我的觀眾 當你喊了出來 當川普總統 擁有美國總統的時候 他做了什麼 這是一場世界大戰的死亡 當你看到死亡 這是一個城市 大約是 賓夕法尼亞的大小 大約是亞利桑那州的大小 它被毀了 當你看到 在烏克蘭的死亡和毀滅 這太嚴重了 烏克蘭的死亡 是 烏克蘭人獨自受到的三倍的死亡 這是美國人 在韓國戰爭和 在越南戰爭中 相結合了11年 所以 我的看法是 如果你認為你能夠 逃脫這場戰爭 你無法 這不僅僅是殺人 你必須有一個 理解的計劃 一個合作的計劃 但它必須是一個理解的計劃 我知道我花了很多時間 來回答您的問題 我想請問 我們今天早上聽到 美國總統 對歐洲說 停止抱怨,做一個計劃 我們明白星期天會有會議 你能否確認 你能夠 在這場戰爭中取得什麼利益 你的計劃是什麼 我認為 為了讓普京 變得更有道理 我們必須讓他相信 他必須付出的價錢 是不可接受的 這是一場經典的殖民戰 通常需要一年 看看 越南、阿爾吉利亞、安哥拉 阿富汗 更短的 是一個優惠 俄羅斯經濟 正在受損 如果我們能夠讓他相信 我們並不想 回到正常的生意 如果我們能夠維持 比他還要長 他就會做一個協議 我們的計劃 是保持正常 繼續支持烏克蘭 支持烏克蘭 保衛烏克蘭 只要烏克蘭願意保衛自己 保持正常,沒有美國人? 我們已經說清楚了 因為他們 他們似乎不在乎 我同意總統的說法 如果這場戰爭 能夠結束 當然,所有人都想要和平 普丁也想要和平 但在他的角度 問題是 如何達成 所有人都能生活的協議 如果能做得更快 很好 但我認為 要做得更快 你必須準備 做到中途 我同意羅伯特的說法 普丁不想和平 他想要戰爭 因為戰爭 可以控制他的社會 控制他的國家 和地區 如果我們在說 他想要戰爭的真正原因 但如果你投降 他會得到和平 所以他會選擇不付價 我想問 英國外交部長 英國總統總是說 你和美國有特別的關係 我想問你 你現在的計劃是什麼 跟隨特朗普 嘗試建立在美國和歐盟之間的橋樑 展示自己的計劃 讓我們回到 過去的一刻 是美國和英國 在 三年前 展示了 全球社會 因為我們的共同智慧 和事實 很多人在歐洲說 這不可能 但特朗普 正要攻擊烏克蘭 我在烏克蘭 一個月前 我記得 看到那些年輕的 男人和女人 在烏克蘭 他們失去了生命 因為這個故事 是在2014年開始 自從那時 加起來 我們是一個 非洲聯盟 我們給了烏克蘭 軍事能力 人道能力 和經濟能力 來抵抗這場戰爭 勇氣 在烏克蘭 經常沒有討論的 新興的飛機能力 是非常出色的 人們說這會在一週內結束 這是我們達成的 今天 我們和美國朋友 開始了一個討論 討論討論 沒有任何協議 我們知道 我們的分析 特朗普沒有 願意討論 除了看到烏克蘭朋友 這是我們無法忍受的 我們的美國朋友也無法忍受 因為它會發訊息 給 其他人 比如說紐約 但對 你對中國的 偉大目標 我們必須站起來 我們知道 實際上 在這個討論中 問題是 第一 第二 我們的安全保障 確保特朗普 不會再回來 我們必須忍受 我們知道 對於美軍的 制裁 對於美軍的 制裁 你認為 在短期內 或中段 在短期內 或中段 或長期內 我們不開始 從最重要的時刻 我們不開始 從最重要的時刻 我們不能保證 但討論只是 空話 如果沒有錢在桌上 我們必須把錢放在桌上 現在我們有 七十多年來的貸款 到美國和歐洲 我們的地區大概有三十年 因為我們在那之前被佔領 但無論如何 美國付出了歐洲安全費 這筆貸款 現在來到我們這裡 我們必須處理 如果我們想幫助 所以安全保障 意味著我們需要 能力保證任何東西 也要投資在 烏克蘭的防禦業 以及歐洲防禦業 是一個關鍵的元素 保證在兩三年後 或多久 他必須 或多久 才能完成他的軍隊的改革 繼續在他的國家 進行防禦業 已經很快 如果我們想 自己強壯 烏克蘭也要強壯 這意味著烏克蘭人擁有 技術 工程師 勇氣 我們擁有防禦業的 兩倍的能力 我們擁有資金 也意味著 我們投資在烏克蘭 這也意味著 第一步是 全歐洲的金融工具 我們必須 盡可能的 而中國和俄羅斯也將與他們的行為結合 因此,我們必須擁有軍事肌肉 當我們讓歐洲和美國站在俄羅斯和中國的 下一階段時,這將是必然的 我認為在過去幾天 這次會議中發生的很多震驚 是美國選擇與普林頓和凱洛克合作的方式 我想向您提出 因為我認為美國已經給予了普林頓授權 在談判開始之前 歐盟外交政策主席其實用了詞 她說這不可能成功 您之前提出過 這也是您在政府和這項工作之前 提出過的 兩邊的衝突將必須進行協議 普林頓將要進行什麼協議? 對我來說,也將有地區的協議 有些是現實性的 你會想去哪裡 但這是地區的 這是地區的 這可能是 拒絕使用力量的參與 拒絕使用力量的進入未來 從政治角度來說 他不會減少他的軍事力量 希望能解決 我們將嘗試將他強迫進行行動 您想做的是強迫他進行行動 也許他不舒服 我的意思是 現在我們將嘗試破壞他目前的聯盟 他有一個聯盟 與北韓 這之前沒有發生過 他有一個聯盟 與伊朗 這之前沒有發生過 他有一個聯盟 與中國 這之前沒有發生過 也就是四年前 但讓我快速轉移一下 因為 對我來說很有趣的 是因為現在 我覺得非常非常重要 是亞洲聯盟的組織 我的回應是 亞洲聯盟 是時候了 很高興你出現了 因為我們說了 四年前 我們說得很清楚 亞洲聯盟在2014年在洛杉磯 在2024年 他們的GDP和防禦率是2% 20%是現代國家 現代化 我們還有8個非洲的成員 他們還沒有出現 這對這些國家來說 恭喜投票員 他們現在在後面 他們的防禦率已經超過4% 甚至5% 但這是你想要問的問題 我理解 你說你會強迫普丁 你會怎麼做 會不會因為 斯文斯基早上說得很清楚 他想要前線的制裁 而不是後線的 他現在想要 更多的制裁 這在桌上嗎 說到制裁 當然是制裁 因為兩邊都要付 你不能說 他想要更多的制裁 對於俄羅斯 我們用制裁為例 我覺得這是一個很好的例子 這是一個很好的例子 現在 大部分的國家 都有制裁 我們要留意制裁 他們說的制裁 是在俄羅斯 實際上是一片石油 70%的資金 來支付這場戰爭 來自石油 石油和煤炭 大部分資金 來自陰謀 大部分陰謀 70%的資金 來自俄羅斯 我們阻擋了 一兩艘船 我們美國 我們幾乎打敗了 俄羅斯人 用經濟制裁 和石油制裁 我們轉過頭來 我們還給他們 所以這就是 你該怎麼做 這就是你們 該怎麼做 如果你們覺得 對我來說 這只是我 如果你們覺得 你們要逃脫 這件事 你們錯了 因為你們有 一個骯髒的歷史評論 因為我意思是 這是一個國家 我們說的是俄羅斯 他們願意 在六個月內 損失七百萬 在蘇格蘭戰爭中 他們願意捐出 六百萬的 他們的兵 在一個戰爭中 在一個 由烏克蘭人 打得非常激烈的戰爭中 他們甚至 把北韓人帶進來 他們不是把北韓人帶進來 因為他們覺得 這是一個好主意 這是一個賠償 他們所說的賠償是 他們有問題 在制裁 他們有問題 在軍人身上 所以你讓他們 付出價錢 所以這不是 一個事情 這不是 說的是 軍事的一部分 你必須 整體平衡 在整體上 太多時候 我們會反思 我們會說 這是一件 人工製造的問題 這是一件殺人的問題 這是一件戰機問題 戰機 炮彈 這比這些更多 我們所說的是 必須有一個 理解的計劃 確保他知道 我們會 把東西 重新 在美國的安全保證方面,至少200萬個歐洲和平的保守派將必須避免新的俄羅斯攻擊 在任何停止的情況下 您是在EU討論組織的貿易討論之後的引導力 您也在6月以來持續扭轉EU的總統職位 您現在有這種感覺嗎? 因爲我們一直在談論共同的EU防衛 這是EU現在的時刻嗎? 這是您的夥伴們,尤其是德國和法國的意願嗎? 我們已經在幾十年來談論歐洲防衛 1950年代甚至有一個協議 在蘇格蘭戰爭期間發生的宣佈 還有戰鬥組織 我們現在正在組織一支迅速反擊隊 我們已經聘請了EU防衛部隊長 但是防衛是非常昂貴的 要遵循資金的規矩 如果我們不投資真正的資源 這件事就不會那麼嚴重 資源必須來自某個地方 資源的列表是限制的 是否來自國內的高級財政 或者是由COVID的不支付資金 或者是新的防衛資金 或者是可能是EBRD的模型 但專注於促進歐洲防衛的恢復 我們是否做這些 這取決於人們是否有足夠的恐慌 你會發現 人們越多投資防衛 我們就越靠近俄羅斯 但如果我們認爲 普產黨對全歐洲的威脅 那是不公平的 我們歐洲的邊境國 要付出一切的代價 來防衛更舒服的國家 這就是爲什麼 我們要通過歐洲的防衛領域 我們有一個防衛領域 叫做歐洲和平基地 我們對於GDP的貢獻 不幸的是 這些領域被一家歐洲國家阻擋了 我希望凱勒總統 能幫助我們 阻擋這些領域 因爲時代變得非常艱難 我們有一個領導 他已經決定了 誰是國家 誰不是 誰破壞了兩次世界大戰的糾結 你不應該用力改變邊境 我認爲 現在是時候 對歐洲的防衛嚴肅 林副總統 您對普產黨的意圖 您剛纔提到 他現在不是在談論 制裁 而是在談論 他被認可的焦點 這就是川普總統的語言 從這個角度來看 您怎麼看 普產黨不認爲 制裁或和平協議是破壞的 這就是我們學到的 我們的共同歷史 共同理解 他是美國人 美國國務卿杰倫 他寫了一條長信 回到美國 開始了 俄羅斯的外交保護政策 在制定這條新政策 是一個共同的政策 我們明白了兩點 我們明白了 普爾頓是在評論這一點 他傾向的一個朝鮮傳統 是聖統尼泊爾 那段時期的最壞 West the Cold War And we should be deadly serious about those imperial ambitions And I said in the House of Commons As someone who's ancestors Face down Imperialism But we have to be real about that threat which is why Radic is right And our American friends are right and have been right since Roosevelt about European spending And despite all that we have done and it's now the case in Europe that we are spending 53 Percent of the money on military effort is coming from my you from Europe 60% of the humanitarian aid is coming from Europe But we will need to do more Because combined across our GDP It's about 0.1% We can do better and must do better over this next period If we are to face Down Putin And that's the basis on which we go into negotiations understanding The sharp lens of history We have just a few minutes left Of course going to give you the last word but first I'd like to turn to the defense minister from From Lithuania to give us your last Final thoughts and I mean you know your comment on How concerned are you that you know we might be looking at competing visions actually For for what might happen in Ukraine How concerned are you that you know About Ukraine's voice being heard in all of this I'm actually mostly concerned about what we are going to do And how fast are we going to do that So regarding support Ukraine I completely agree with Secretary Lamy that we need to Agree that our support is measured not by words but by Money And guns So Lithuania gave 0.25% GDP Last year And we are going to keep the pace Clearly You can do 0.25% GDP as a brink at least But secondly What are we going to do about us being a credible Partner And being able to give any security guarantees So again We are a small country we have now 4% GDP for defense and we will have from 5 to 6% GDP to defense from 2026 to 2030 And that's not an easy decision And we are social democratic government No one expected us to do that on the actually Second day of our appointment to change those rules But what we understand Is that Mr. Putin is not going to change That the Tsarist and Soviet tradition which I know On my family I mean I come from a family that was imprisoned tortured And murdered by Soviets But at the same time I understand that If we are Absolutely and fully prepared For this imperialist war that Putin is planning to wage Then this is our only chance to avoid it And that's what we need to do And then We are able to help Ukraine Otherwise it's just talk What do you think of all the talk we've heard on this panel Interesting Probably With most Of the suggestions ideas I agree But let me Summarize Transatlantic and Ukrainian security are indivisible As never before we need unity and strength We have a very simple recipe How to end this war This year To achieve just comprehensive long-lasting peace Leadership of the United States President Trump says Strong America If America is strong Peace is at peace The world is in peace So that's why our Approach Active proactive engagement of the United States Really Could give you dynamics and we do really believe in this And we are ready to discuss deeply With our American partners How to proceed We are looking forward For the visit of General Kellogg to Ukraine Very important Visit and what is important and President Zelensky mentioned in today's speech We Should coordinate Our positions Before We will approach To Russia Now about the recipe once again Leadership of the USA To raise the price for further aggression to Russia Sanctions Frozen assets Price of the oil So we have this very effective instrument The last point To strengthen Ukraine To strengthen our position And we are ready to keep our Resistance Thank you That concludes the panel portion of this we have an absolutely packed room and we're going to have a microphone going around so If you have a question please do raise your hand We will get to you and I'm just going to look around the room Tikhanovskaya Please Salamatikhanovskaya Belarus today President Zelensky said that The eastern borders of Europe must lay to the eastern border of Belarus as well So my question is to General Kellogg and all the panelists How do you make sure that Belarus will not be given a cancellation price To Putin And what is your policy towards illegitimate Lukashenko who is continuing to Conduct Terror and Direct our country into the war and to Putin General Kellogg I got the question right how do we prevent further escalation cuts and is right Will Belarus be used in this as a pawn in a geopolitical game As a As a bargaining chip Belarus has already been used as a pawn Some of the attacks basically emanated Unfortunately there was a lot of resistance Within Belarus And it's a weak partner but it's still a partner Of Russia right now when you talk about expansion of it I think what you have to do is It's like anything else and I didn't sound because we're not talking almost in a large General context You can't appease aggression OK and that's really keep coming back to the challenges said With this administration and probably the question was What did you talk about last year here when you talk about the year before here and time before But that's my challenge to everybody here is I said look You cannot show me Where we allow aggression Within a Trump administration For four years you can't You can't do it in Syria when they use nerve gas You can't do it with ISIS which at that time Was a size geographically Of Great Britain You can't say the same thing about Iran with Soleimani You can't say the same thing when we make sure things happen all over the world This was a man who said If you attack An American In his last state of the union If you attack not kill If you attack an American your life is forfeit In months after that we put an entire SEAL team Our best special forces Into one country in Niger and Africa This illustrates To get one individual who's kidnapped by bandits We're willing to do that So the point is You almost have to trust the man and trust the discussion What you're talking about is what Has happened in the past history And somebody said before that with the invasion of Crimea and before What's the past history Don't put that on us This kind of goes back on you On the European environment But we have a track record The Trump administration of four years What's happening We've been in power the president's been in power For 25 days 25 days We made very clear that this war must come to an end That is not what you heard from the last administration Now to me the last administration said I'm not I know I'm veering away from a little bit what you asked But as long as it takes as much as it takes That's a bumper sticker That's not a strategy At least come up with a strategy To do that And I see Senator Wicker in the audience Who runs our great Senate Armed Services Committee And he knows because when I went to Ukraine last time I went in front of his committee and I explained This is the way you have to do it The explanation I gave to him was that I was a piece of his train When will we know what the Trump plan is What's the time We're 25 days Maybe if you give us within 30 days He's already called Putin That's pretty good considering that Biden didn't call Putin for three years OK in the fact the matter of the way you like it or not You have to talk To adversaries and friends as well You know When you think about it it was You know I had a great Secretary of Defense General Mattis once say I may not like this son of a bitch but I got to talk to him But the fact of the matter is that's there But I think don't put on the problems Of the last three years which was accepted On us when we've been there for 25 years We're going to take another question So we have a number of hands there Right here Maria Ivanova, Member of the Parliament, Ukrainian Parliament, European Solidarity Dear General, just for your information that the Russian aggression has been started in 2014 16,000 Ukrainians have been killed by the Russian army Russian army And that is why Before 2022 And that is why of course we really thanks for all the support you have done but don't make Putin great again What Because we see What is going on when In Such messages detoxing Putin And the talks in North Korea Iran and all other authoritarian regime So please make democracy great again and here we are together with Europeans Can make it together Because we are fighting for 11 years And we are ready to fight Further Together with Europeans and together with you That is why my question is your strategy Is to stop the war or to win the war Thank you And can I just I think the question is what is winning with war I think you have to ask that to yourself That is a Ukrainian question Because you are fighting for your By the way, let's be totally honest About it The Ukrainians have fought valiantly What you have done, the sacrifice you have made is incredible And I have been to Ukraine and I have seen I have been Pretty far east And seen Ism in places like that and I know what you have done and what you have done there And I think it is one of those but the first thing you have to do is like I said to somebody earlier today Is like when you are treating a casualty in war as a soldier The first thing you do is you stop the bleeding And then you treat for shock But the first thing you have to do is stop the bleeding Because you cannot sustain levels like this And that doesn't mean you don't You know you make it a steel porcupine Or make it the sparta of middle Europe whatever it is going to be And that should be well thought through But I think part of the question is If you keep fighting Or do you want to set This is it for the long term you want to do it You know I remember going back to Conrad Adenauer Who is the first chancellor of Germany He wanted to unify Germany Without question he did But he looked over the long term And he said maybe this is what we look like When you look at the Baltic states which were subjugated By the Soviet Union after World War II the United States never recognized that It was called the Wells Doctrine And we said you can occupy the land But we as United States we do not acknowledge the fact That this is your territory at all So this is one of those when saying okay This is part of the process we have to figure out What does it look like If you are thinking about victory Of World War II terms of signing a peace treaty on the deck of the USS Missouri In Tokyo Harbor That is probably not going to happen But you have to look at it a little bit differently for the long term And that's what we want to do we want to send a message that Aggression is not acceptable And that the freedom and sovereignty of a nation is acceptable and that's what we want And those are the hard questions we have to ask We have to address it We can't run from it But we also cannot be I believe From the West and from East or North and South We cannot be Pollyannish about it You cannot hope for it Okay you hope it's not a message It doesn't work so the reality is where you get And part of it is we want to make sure That there's a sovereign Stable Successful State of Ukraine That's the big one and we obviously that is done through stopping Russian aggression We understand that But the final details of that Is something that has to be worked out Will be worked out And One of the people who have to do that Is your president, President Zelensky And getting them together Whether you like it or not Adversaries have to come We have to move on to the next question Thank you Bob Zane from the Klingon Institute. General you're being asked quite a lot of questions. Thank you for interacting with us. Much appreciated I have a question as a military man because the ceasefire is going to be incredibly difficult We know from the previous ceasefires the Minsk agreements I used to work for the OSCE That was violated almost every single day For a period of 8 years And this line of contact is much longer and as a military man you know well that the complexity of these weapons systems artillery drones Do you have some idea already on what will be needed even to monitor and enforce Such a ceasefire And what happens if it's violated And I would like to also add to that You know you have First of all what security guarantees Is the United States willing to provide to Ukraine And There's a bit of a dilemma here because you have on the one hand Zelensky saying That If you're not willing to provide security guarantees and the EU can't fill the gap then he wants an army of 1.5 million They have about I think 800,000 Right now And Putin That's an absolute no go for him How are you going to how are you going to handle that in any any sort of negotiation to get them the guarantees that they That they need to secure Some sort of lasting One of them is I kind of alluded to it I'll go back to it The first is to be very candid with you I do not speak for the President of the United States the President of the United States speaks for himself OK And I will not Say that this is a decision in the United States I got zero electoral college votes this year OK I got no votes He did he's the president His commander in chief under our constitution he makes those calls He'll make those calls We as advisors make recommendations And so when I say this is what they'll be I don't know what they'll be Because that's his call not my call When it comes to violations is that's what I made to earlier Is this is when I say you have to take a measure in the historic if you do it you're you're good How do you respond to a violation or a ceasefire We have proven that Donald Trump has proven that That's where you made that comment about It's using SEAL Team 6 for one American farmer That was captured And taken prisoner in Niger and we sent an entire Operation SEAL Team From Virginia All the way into Africa And respond That's why we responded on a nerve gas attack against Assad By putting 71 Tomahawk attack missiles in there Response is immediate It's violent It's it's it's it's overwhelming That's how you respond to ceasefires You don't respond to ceasefires by going to that's okay Okay And in the measure of the man and I've seen it happen in four years Is a willingness The willingness To use force because that's a key part of deterrence Because what you're asking about is that our violation of a ceasefire Is how do you establish deterrence You can have all the capability in the world That you want But if you don't have the will to do that And the will to execute Then it means absolutely nothing And ceasefires mean nothing Okay we're going to take another question Yeah I just want to make this point On behalf of Ukraine We have a shared responsibility because it was Us as allies That encouraged Ukraine to give up their nuclear weapons And I know that there is a discussion in Ukraine that had they not done that they would not be in this situation The truth is when you look around the world in different conflict zones there are different Security guarantees the United States effectively has security guarantees with Japan and South Korea As article 5 Israel there are different security arrangements This is a long border There is drone capability Which we learn from that can provide some of that guarantee But in the end What I think will be thinking about and I know we're thinking about Is what does Russia fear What stops them Breaching That is That is the detail That is an alliance we're getting into And of course Ukraine will want that guarantee and even if They were to be admitted to NATO there is a path They would need those guarantee even before That irreversible pathway that we set out Back in September I just like to explain because we're also streaming this on YouTube live why the general is getting so many questions from the audience Here at the Munich security conference we've heard a lot from the Americans but this is actually been the only Conversation that a member of the current administration is engaging in Both in a panel setting and also taking questions from the audience so that's why this conversation has been Dominated in that way There's one more question here and then this is the final question Thank you very much I remember definitely Three years ago when we discussed about these topics First Trump administration President Trump said Lots of things which Europe didn't like Lots He said lots of things that Europe didn't like in the first administration And he was right We like it or not he was right a lot about About a lot of things we had to do right We have to acknowledge Second Trump administration we leave it now We see the same style We see the same type of requests But we see something That we have we've seen these days here It's an elephant in the room We see Parallel with the same request Like that in the first Trump administration Some direct and non-direct signs In supporting Right extreme parties in Europe Which by the way Are voting In our parliaments Against the defense spending In my country The presidential candidate and I was the head of the National Security and Defense Committee Voting for the 6.5 billion dollars spent off and F-35s To defend my country first And because of our strategic partnership In my country Candidate Spoke against that contract Addressing people that this is A very bad thing To spend money on F-35s For our defense My question is How will you deal With this kind of narrative While you will try to convince Europe and I agree we should Be convinced we should do more about it And I'm a big fan of it But how will you address This challenge While supporting The voices Which Got to vote Because they don't want to spend money on On defense Thank you very much I think I think when you talk about issues like that this is that's your issue It's not our issue it's sort of like when it was happened today when And I'll give you an example it's a parallel issue When I was asked about Ukrainian elections today I said that's not my I said That's the issue for the Ukrainian people The same issue that's the reason why There's a democracy you get a chance to vote about it You know and it's one of those things where I think that There's a cautionary note that our One of our founders of our constitution Benjamin Franklin Was asked a question when he came out of our constitutional convention He said Mr. Franklin what have you given it What have you given us And his response was A republic If you can keep it So I think this is one of those that's a question that you need to ask yourselves internally Every one of your nations That's not a question you should ask the United States Everybody's got a chip in on the side They do We will you will But this is one that I think you have to have to answer yourself Not to me Minister Sibiya I would like to ask you to have the final word To bring it all together for us where the next steps for Ukraine you know this morning When we heard from Zelensky he said That he was essentially available for a meeting with Trump He was asking for it emphatically What comes next in the next days and months for you So first I I would like to confirm that David has the right to speak On behalf of Ukraine Definitely You deserve this right So once again unity and strength We do really have a chance to end this war This year By demonstrating Strength By implementing concept Which was also announced by President Trump Peace through strength We have clear understanding How we could proceed with this We need support of the United States We need to coordinate our efforts And probably to predict To prevent such a situation when We were not aware of something about us Nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine We will never accept any Initiative which was elaborated without us We could not expect How would your non-acceptance look We know how to resist So we prove this At the battlefield also So We do really believe That we could get new dynamics In our peace efforts And we are ready for this Thank you so much everyone for joining us for peace through strength The plan for Ukraine This has been A conflict zone from the Munich security conference Thank you so much For your time Thank you so much for administering